Advanced Marksmanship Horizontal string of hits

[SanPatHogger]

So I've been shooting at 400 yards the last few weekends. All my hand loads seem to string horizontal. Is it me or my loads? Velocity spreads should give vertical strings?

These are 85gr Speer soft point boat tails from my 243.
The orange dot is 3 inch

 

[Tokay444]

Seating depth would be where I’d start. Velocity seems pretty even.

 

[eastexsteve]

I have a .243 and that is my favorite bullet. I've seen scope parallax issues do this. Not necessarily the scope, but the way you're looking down the tube.

 

[Reverie Ranges]

Wind, trigger control, and scope sight picture are usually the culprits of horizonal shot groups. Sometimes position allows rifle to pull, but 1st 3 are more common. If those are not the issue, scope screw tightness or God forbid, bad scope... Hope it all works out for you next range day.

 

[Dthomas3523]

Show us a few 100yd groups. No cherry picking. Go shoot 3-5 five shot groups and post them exactly how you shot them. Attempt to use the same form/fundamentals used at 400. If you didn’t pay super close attention to some/all of the fundamentals at 400, don’t at 100. If you focused very hard, then focus that hard at 100. Give us a clear picture at 100.

Let’s start there instead of everyone throwing some random suggestions.

 

[XLR308]

You didn't give shit for information on rifle or optics specs but it looks to me like a shortfall in fundamentals.

 

[SanPatHogger]

Show us a few 100yd groups. No cherry picking. Go shoot 3-5 five shot groups and post them exactly how you shot them. Attempt to use the same form/fundamentals used at 400. If you didn’t pay super close attention to some/all of the fundamentals at 400, don’t at 100. If you focused very hard, then focus that hard at 100. Give us a clear picture at 100.

Let’s start there instead of everyone throwing some random suggestions.

I will do this. I think its me. I'm new to shooting past 200 yards.

 

[SanPatHogger]

You didn't give shit for information on rifle or optics specs but it looks to me like a shortfall in fundamentals.

Its an old Remington sportsman 78 .243. Heavier then a sporting barrel but not a target barrel. The scope is a borrowed Falcon FFP 5.5-25.
I also think its me. That's why I asked. Its just a little odd that I don't get the horizontal strings with factory ammo.
I have an Athlon 6-24 on the way, should be here next weekend. My old Osprey Global SFP may have shot a little better, but I only shot it to 400 once, then switched scopes.

 

[SanPatHogger]

Wind, trigger control, and scope sight picture are usually the culprits of horizonal shot groups. Sometimes position allows rifle to pull, but 1st 3 are more common. If those are not the issue, scope screw tightness or God forbid, bad scope... Hope it all works out for you next range day.

The wind was almost zero, and I'm shooting next to a wood line that blocks what wind there is. Trying to shoot when there is no wind because I'm trying to work up loads.
My groups will all loads are fine for hogs and coyotes but need to tighten things up if I want to go shoot a match.
And thank you guys for the input.

 

[Dthomas3523]

If they hold fine at 100, they will hold fine at 400.

 

[SanPatHogger]

Really windy here tonight so no shooting. Talked to a buddy at work about it, he is a pretty accomplished shooter, and he said it was wind. He showed me an app and put in 1 mph wind, 1.4 inch at 400 yards. I could feel a slight breeze every once in a while. If you can feel it its probably at least 3-5? Sometimes I could hear the Sorghum leaves shaking. I will probably get out again next weekend. Ill go early in the morning and hope for dead calm. Hope to have my scope mounted, I'll load up a bunch of the 85s and shoot every hundred yards. I'll also do some dry firing till then. And I was told to tape a BB to the stock, that should help get me a consistent cheek weld. I'll be back.

Thank you guys again.

 

[Jscb1b]

Really windy here tonight so no shooting. Talked to a buddy at work about it, he is a pretty accomplished shooter, and he said it was wind. He showed me an app and put in 1 mph wind, 1.4 inch at 400 yards. I could feel a slight breeze every once in a while. If you can feel it its probably at least 3-5? Sometimes I could hear the Sorghum leaves shaking. I will probably get out again next weekend. Ill go early in the morning and hope for dead calm. Hope to have my scope mounted, I'll load up a bunch of the 85s and shoot every hundred yards. I'll also do some dry firing till then. And I was told to tape a BB to the stock, that should help get me a consistent cheek weld. I'll be back.

Thank you guys again.

What is with the BB?

 

[SanPatHogger]

What is with the BB?

Its just a bump on the stock to line up my face on. Help to make sure my cheek and eye are in the same place every time. If your cheek and eye are in the same place you should be more consistent.

 

[M8541Reaper]

Check and make sure that your scope base isn’t loose. Torque and place witness marks.
That’s something that is usually overlooked when stringing horizontally.

 

[C.R. Adams]

I experienced similar stringing recently. My personal diagnosis is a weakness in my shooting. The attached photos are from the same day. I was using a tripod as a barricade w/ a sandbag resting on it. @ 300 yards, high double kneeling. The black squares have 8 shots each, with breaking/re-establishing
position every two shots. Same on the shoot n see except of course only 4 shots. The only difference between the targets is one was above/below the the. That slight change in position resulted in the change in stringing. I think the vertical is due to not shooting at the same point in my breath pause. The horizontal could be trigger pull.

 

[Dthomas3523]

Fundamentally speaking, if this is a shooter issue, it’s too little/tapping/pushing trigger finger (if it’s stringing to the right on right handed shooter) or a natural point of aim issue. The NPA is off horizontally with shooter muscling it back and as shot is breaking body relaxes and rifle returns to NPA.

 

[oldiephrt]

So I've been shooting at 400 yards the last few weekends. All my hand loads seem to string horizontal. Is it me or my loads? Velocity spreads should give vertical strings?View attachment 7322831
These are 85gr Speer soft point boat tails from my 243.
The orange dot is 3 inch

Have you gotten anything that helps? Read a story "lesson from a Texas warehouse" (I think) where harmonics come into play. I had a rifle that I thought was dead on. Not a sparrow lived out of the feed yard. (100 yd or so) Shot around a PD at 300 looked like the gofer dancing on 'Caddy Shack'. Anyway, found my load was 1" vert. and 6" horz. at 300 yds. Changed load and the compromise was 2x2 1/2. Best I could do.

 

[SanPatHogger]

2 weekends ago we got a hell of a rain storm so I haven't driven out in the neighbors field. Last weekend I put on my Athlon 6-24 and 2 nights ago I annealed a pile of Remington brass. I'm going to order up some 90 gr sierra Gamechangers and try and load the best ammo I can. So after I load up something nice I'll head back out. I did notice at the range I shot a 3 round group at 200 that was very nice, I saw the wind flags pick up a little and I did not adjust my hold and the next 3 moved to the right. I guess I'm slowly learning that even a light breeze can move your bullets. I thought that stuff only happened at ranges past 500 and got worse the further you go. But when I get back out to the field I will shoot groups at 100, 200, 300 and 400, I'll post them up and if not embarrassing I'll go to 500.

 

[SanPatHogger]

Oh... And I'm also reading a Fundamentals of Marksmanship book. Its pretty good.

 

[oldiephrt]

Good for you. please keep updating.

 

[Seymour Fish]

So I've been shooting at 400 yards the last few weekends. All my hand loads seem to string horizontal. Is it me or my loads? Velocity spreads should give vertical strings?View attachment 7322831
These are 85gr Speer soft point boat tails from my 243.
The orange dot is 3 inch

Betting it’s your load, since factory stuff didn’t string horizontally