Hornady 162gr BTHP

[Helmet]

Recently I discovered that I wasn't supposed to be including the plastic tip on the 162gr Amax when measuring the length in regards to twist rate. So now it appears I have a bit too much twist in my 7mm08 barrel for this bullet. I'm thinking about switching to the Hornady 162gr BTHP as it is a better length. I know it has nowhere near the popularity of the Amax. Anybody using it?

 

[Fester47]

Re: Hornady 162gr BTHP

Have you tried shooting the bullet? Is the bullet coming apart when you shoot? Are you not reaching the expected velocity? Is the bullet not grouping?

I guess I need to ask what are you worried about first. I would rather be over stabilized the under.

 

[Helmet]

Re: Hornady 162gr BTHP

Good question. Bullets gain stability as they go downrange. The further you shoot, the more stable it will be. I Eventually want to shoot long distance. Although I'm not having a problem at 200 yards with the Amax I'm noticing that lots of people are having problems with them at longer distance. The problems seem to be more prolific with faster twist barrels. I believe that they are doing funny things at long range because their stability factor is too excessive by the time they get close to 1,000 yards. The 162gr HPBT shouldn't have this problem. It takes MUCH more effort for me to get to a 1,000 yard range than it does to get to a 200 yard range so I wanted to try and get the right load set up in town before I drove over an hour to try it out at longer range.

 

[turbo54]

Re: Hornady 162gr BTHP

What twist is your barrel?

I find it hard to believe you are over spinning these.

1:8-1:9 is good to go.

 

[Helmet]

Re: Hornady 162gr BTHP

It's a 1-9" and no I'm not having any trouble at the shorter distances. I'm not seeing people have problems until they get about 800 yards. How far have you shot them?

 

[turbo54]

Re: Hornady 162gr BTHP

Personally, I've only had them out to 600 yards.

Here is a recent thread about them at 1600+ yards, through a 1:9. He has a 284, and is running 3000fps, so his stability factor is even higher than yours.

1:9 is pretty much minimum for that bullet, though some 9.25 and 9.5 barrels have done the job.

I think you're over thinking this!

 

[Helmet]

Re: Hornady 162gr BTHP

Thread? Where?
Yes, I am over thinking this. It's something I enjoy so it gets over thunk.
I'm not going to say that a 1-9" twist wont work, but to say that a 1-9" twist is the minimum is a huge stretch. A guy at my range is using a 1-10.5" in a 284 with them. They only measure about 1.28" long not counting the plastic tip (which you aren't supposed to). Try it yourself http://www.jbmballistics.com/cgi-bin/jbmstab-5.1.cgi
It's not like I'm switching to Bergers anyway. The 162 BTHPs only cost about $1 more a box.

 

[turbo54]

Re: Hornady 162gr BTHP

Sorry...

http://www.snipershide.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=3514001#Post3514001

 

[turbo54]

Re: Hornady 162gr BTHP

Why do you suppose the box these bullets comes in says "Twist Rate 1-8"??

Think it's because 1-9 is too fast?

We all know the bullet makers specify more twist than *really* needed, but come on...

I've never used the JBM stability calculator. I look it up in Litz's book. For the 162amax (this is from memory, so don't quote me on this), his "worst case" stability for the 162amax from a 1:9 barrel is 1.42, at 1000' ASL, 50ºF and 2650fps.

A minimum of 1.40 stability factor is required to ensure proper gyroscopic stability.

 

[The Lawn Ranger]

Re: Hornady 162gr BTHP

I am the 284 owner turbo is referencing. I feel so special being mentioned on the Hide.

My rifle has a 26"-1 and 8.7 twist Krieger-this was used intentionally by my gunsmith so I could shoot the 180 vlds. When things sped up to 3000 fps I noticed an accuracy drop off with the 162 Amaxes-I believe, at least with my gun,
the sweet spot is in the mid-high 2900 fps range so i intend to back the charge off by .3 grains. I believe, when the rifle was shooting well at 1650 yds (3 out of 4 hits)
it was running the Amaxes at 2950 fps. 16.5 mils elevation I believe and I held off 1 mil left. Epic shooting day!

 

[MontanaMarine]

Re: Hornady 162gr BTHP

You are splitting hairs. If it shoots well, stop fretting small differences in twist rate.

 

[BoilerUP]

Re: Hornady 162gr BTHP

Talk to mwrosenberry...I think his 7-08 is an 8 twist and he switched from the 162 A-Max to BTHP because they were more consistent for him at long range.

 

[Helmet]

Re: Hornady 162gr BTHP

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BoilerUP</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Talk to mwrosenberry...I think his 7-08 is an 8 twist and he switched from the 162 A-Max to BTHP because they were more consistent for him at long range. </div></div>Thanks BoilerUP. Looks like he is having trouble shooting them at long range. It also seems that switching to the 162 BTHP has been helpful for him. It appears he not only has experience with it, but in 7mm08 as well. I should probably just send him a PM.

turbo54/MontanaMarine/Bryce6750:
Although I appreciate the interest I think their must have been some kind of misunderstanding here. The way I worded my initial post should have been more clear in that I was simply looking to see if anyone had any experience with the 162 BTHP (I ordered some today). Obviously I divulged too much information about my reasons for asking which led us down a different path, but that's OK.

FYI: Eventually I will try both of them(Amax & BTHP), and I will know which one works best in my rifle. Hopefully they will both work well at all ranges and I will be forced to split hairs (which I enjoy) to pick one. Since I haven't worked up a load yet with the Amax I will start with the BTHP and then see how the Amax stacks up at a latter date. So far all the people I have talked to that had problems with the Amax at long range are using a 1-8.5" or faster twist so I may never have a problem anyway. Only one way to find out for sure.

turbo54: It just so happens that some of us at my rifle range have already tried to answer the question of why the 162 Amax says it needs a 1-8" twist. The best answer anyone has come up with so far is that they may be smoking crack at Hornady. Possibly with the people at Sierra that say the 175 SMK needs a 1-8.5" twist. Hopefully we with come up with a better answer at some point, but for now we are stumped.

m14er: It's interesting to see that the Amax worked well with a 8.7" twist. With others I've talked to having trouble with an 1-8.5" twist it leads me to believe that your barrel twist is just slow enough not to have problems with the Amax at long range. I've also seen several other people now with 1-9" twist barrels who have no such problems either.

 

[The Lawn Ranger]

Re: Hornady 162gr BTHP

[/quote] m14er: It's interesting to see that the Amax worked well with a 8.7" twist. With others I've talked to having trouble with an 1-8.5" twist it leads me to believe that your barrel twist is just slow enough not to have problems with the Amax at long range. I've also seen several other people now with 1-9" twist barrels who have no such problems either. [/quote]

The twist is what my builder (Mark Gordon-SAC) chose. I am now testing some 168 vld's that are showing great promise with 4350. The goal here is to eventually shoot the 180 Bergers to a mile.

A 7mm to a mile consistently? I think so.

 

[Helmet]

Re: Hornady 162gr BTHP

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: m14er</div><div class="ubbcode-body">[/quote]The twist is what my builder (Mark Gordon-SAC) chose. I am now testing some 168 vld's that are showing great promise with 4350. The goal here is to eventually shoot the 180 Bergers to a mile.

A 7mm to a mile consistently? I think so. </div></div>I would really like to try the same thing. Unfortunately I was choosing a 7mm barrel to put on a SA receiver and I was under the impression that a 284 was hampered in a SA so I got a 7mm08 barrel instead. I got the twist I did because I wanted to be able to shoot any bullet. After I got it I realized that a 7mm08 didn't really have the horsepower to push a 180gr fast enough to make it worthwhile and the 162gr was really what I should be using. Next time I want to get either a 284 or a 7mm RSAUM and do what you are doing. For next few years though I think that just working this rifle up to 1,000 yards will probably be plenty challenging for me.

 

[JGorski]

Re: Hornady 162gr BTHP

Ive got a 9 twist remington 700 and the 162 AMAXs shoot this well out to 300, youll be fine, shoot them at any range you like.

 

[Nortex]

Re: Hornady 162gr BTHP

Who's having problems with the Amax's at longer ranges?

 

[Helmet]

Re: Hornady 162gr BTHP

A couple people I know who aren't on SH. It also appears that mwroseberry may have had the same problem.
http://snipershide.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2500629

 

[Nortex]

Re: Hornady 162gr BTHP

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ArmchairElite</div><div class="ubbcode-body">A couple people I know who aren't on SH. It also appears that mwroseberry may have had the same problem.
http://snipershide.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2500629 </div></div>

Velocity seems to ve a key here and were the Amax's tested pre or post jacket design change. I would definitely shot them first the calculators don't seem to be always right compared to real world tests.

 

[264win]

Re: Hornady 162gr BTHP

I have had a hard time getting the Hornady 162 A max or HP to run well in both my 9 twist 7-08s.
I would suggest the Sierra 175 smk and H 4350. This combo has shot very well in several 7-08s.

And yes OP you are over thinking it, 9 twist good for the 162-168-175. Real world trial trumps on line calculators any day and twice on sunday. If you are getting consistent accuracy and velocity at 200dys, you are gtg.

I have done a LOT of load development and bullet trial in 7-08 recently, If you want any details on particular loads send me a pm.

Adam

 

[turbo54]

Re: Hornady 162gr BTHP

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 264win</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I have had a hard time getting the Hornady 162 A max or HP to run well in both my 9 twist 7-08s.
I would suggest the Sierra 175 smk and H 4350. This combo has shot very well in several 7-08s.

And yes OP you are over thinking it, 9 twist good for the 162-168-175. Real world trial trumps on line calculators any day and twice on sunday. If you are getting consistent accuracy and velocity at 200dys, you are gtg.

I have done a LOT of load development and bullet trial in 7-08 recently, If you want any details on particular loads send me a pm.

Adam </div></div>

I'd like to hear about what you've done with the 175smk. Please PM me about this. Thanks!

 

[Helmet]

Re: Hornady 162gr BTHP

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: turbo54</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I'd like to hear about what you've done with the 175smk. Please PM me about this. Thanks! </div></div>Why don't you just share it with all of us? Nobody has anything to share about the Hornady 162gr BTHP anyway.

 

[mwroseberry]

Re: Hornady 162gr BTHP

Here is what I've learned and a theory of mine. If you don't agree that's fine that just means more BTHP bullets for me :-D...

First my cousin and I have twin rifles except for two factors, #1 barrel twist, #2 stocks. Since the stocks make no difference in this it's a mute point

Mine is a 1 in 8 twist
His is a 1 in 9 twist
-They used the same reamer when cutting them
-I head spaced them the same
-When using virgin brass our best load is the same to the point we can interchange ammo between rifles

He and I were both using A-maxes before the BTHP came out (old jacket design). Mine was holding great groups to 1000 and his would hold groups to almost 1200. BOHEM experienced the same thing with his 7mm-300WM at TVP at 1600yards, he and I have shot together here and there and his experiences confirm the issue. My theory on this is the fact I'm spinning mine up so fast amplifies imperfections in any bullet. No matter if it's slight weight variations or in the case of the amax I believe it's shape of the tip. I mag feed and I believe that scuff or possible damage to the tip because of this caused enough variation that when the bullet started to slow down in speed it amplifies the variations. When the BTHP came out with the AMP jacket I made the switch. Since then I have no stability issues at all clear out to 1 mile at TVP. I believe this is mainly a benefit of having a solid tip on your rounds especially when mag feeding.

The 7-08 is a great caliber out to 1 mile. In my opinion there is no need for anything different unless you intend to go past 1 mile. If TVP didn't have a 2400yard target I wouldn't even dream of building the 7STW that I plan to build here soon to try to get it hit. I see the 175smk being mentioned - Don't forget about the 175 berger as well, I'm helping a guy with testing using them now and we'll see how they do at Rayners this weekend.

Here is my load data:

162 BTHP
Winchester brass
47.2g H4350 (compressed load)
CCI 200 primer
OAL 2.870
2780fps out of a 26" barrel

If you have any questions feel free to ask.

Good luck,
Merritt

 

[Nortex]

Re: Hornady 162gr BTHP

Have you tried Tbe Amax with the newer AMP jacket?

 

[Helmet]

Re: Hornady 162gr BTHP

mwroseberry: Thanks so much for offering up some real information about the 162 BTHP! The only thing I was actually learning from this thread was that nobody was using them(and never to question the mighty Amax in public).
My bullets will be here next week. I'm already using H4350 so I'll start working my way up to that load.
Have you found that they work better with a certain jump?

 

[mwroseberry]

Re: Hornady 162gr BTHP

Have not tied the Amax with the new jacket because the BTHP work better for me. 0.02-0.05 to lands.

Good luck,
Merritt

 

[Nortex]

Re: Hornady 162gr BTHP

I wonder if the AMP jackets are that big of a deal, seems to be a common factor.

In your original post from when you switched to the BTHP Im assuming your OAL is measured from the tip and not the Ogive.

 

[Helmet]

Re: Hornady 162gr BTHP

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: mwroseberry</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Have not tied the Amax with the new jacket because the BTHP work better for me. 0.02-0.05 to lands.

Good luck,
Merritt </div></div>Great. Then I'll start there. Since you have the most experience with this I may have some questions for you in the future.

 

[Helmet]

Re: Hornady 162gr BTHP

I shot the 162gr BTHPs today. I shot four 5 shot groups and the 3rd and 4th group were better than any groups I had posted with the Amax to this point(all touching)and this was the 1st outing. I also started using Nosler brass so I don't know if that made any difference or not. In any case they are working great.