Hornady 285 grain 338 bullet

B

BountyHunter

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Oct 7, 2003
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Wilmington NC and area code 540
#1
Hornady has made a 285 grain 338 bullet and has run about 200,000 of them already. It is a little longer than the 300 SMK, length is 1.7" with an 8 degree boattail. BC is estimated to be .710-.715. It has only been shot to a little over 3000 fps and has not been run with a 408 sized case and the MVs that would come there. they do not foresee the nose slump issue that Berger had but they have not tested it.. but then neither did Berger. I am trying to get 200-400 now. They have not been officially released as of yet.

They also have a prototype 30 caliber that is currently being tested at 225 grains (not the 300 that was originally told to me). BC is running .700-.710. They are still experimenting with different weights and it is not anywere near ready to release.

BH
 
#5
Re: Hornady 285 grain 338 bullet

Ever since I started using the 208gr A-max I have been hoping for Hornady to come out with a 220-230gr bullet with a BC superior to the outdated 240gr SMK. I look forward to seeing the finished product.
 
#8
Re: Hornady 285 grain 338 bullet

I've probably shot more of them than anyone and they perform well at distance. Like @ 2K. They impressed me and that's hard to do as I've been flogging 338's for a long time and have always been disappointed. I shot them in a 9.3 but anything from 10.5 and faster will work.
 
#10
Re: Hornady 285 grain 338 bullet

Dave, since you had a hand in developing this bullet, I'm curious why it isn't something more like the A-Max which, I think, would give it a better BC??? Also, do you know if this bullet will every become a production bullet?

thanks
 
#11
Re: Hornady 285 grain 338 bullet

I would like nothing more than a tipped bullet. The tip increases the BC. It reduces the BC spread from bullet to bullet but nobody has figured out how to make a really good tipped bullet lot to lot to lot. There has not been any consistency to them. I've installed tips as an after market item but they don't lend themselves to a manufacturing environment and a match bullets. Yes I know A-Max's shoot well but not as good as a well made HP. With the advent of a secondary point up tipped bullet development may well stop. That's not say there won't be any but in the pursuit of pure accuracy it's just not worth the pain and cost involved. From working with Hornady on several bullets, I know you can do everything right in manufacturing but the target tells you something is wrong.

Yes the bullet will be and is a standard production item now. I've been told it has all the appropriate marketing/inventory numbers assigned to it and as bountyhunter said a run of 200K+ has been made so I would think it will hit the shelves soon.
 
#12
Re: Hornady 285 grain 338 bullet

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: samson</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Dave, since you had a hand in developing this bullet, I'm curious why it isn't something more like the A-Max which, I think, would give it a better BC??? Also, do you know if this bullet will every become a production bullet?

thanks </div></div>

I was hoping the 220-230gr bullet would be an A-max too. I like how consistent they are OAL wise unlike HPBTs.
 
#13
Re: Hornady 285 grain 338 bullet

A 230gr 30 cal A-Max would be a very long bullet and require a twist rate faster than 1-10. remember everything is a compromise. I want a bullet with enough BC to get the job done and be very accurate. Then I'll learn how to shoot it in the real world.
I don't know what the 30 cal will be weight wise. I like it the way it is at 225 grs. I can invision a 200-205 gr version for the Win Mag. That would be a dandy combo with the new superformance powders.

The good news for us is we have a company working to bring new and improved products to the market place.
 
#14
Re: Hornady 285 grain 338 bullet

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Dave Tooley</div><div class="ubbcode-body">A 230gr 30 cal A-Max would be a very long bullet and require a twist rate faster than 1-10. </div></div>

So be it!!! Don't let 30 cal be hamstrung by twist rates please.

Remember how in recent past 338's were mostly 11 twists and 10 twist is becoming common to shoot the 300 grainers..........

We need a good 7.5 BC 30 cal for all the big 30's out there
smile.gif
.

Steve
 
#15
Re: Hornady 285 grain 338 bullet

Dave (or anyone else) - Sincerely, what's the draw to the new Hornady over the 300 grain SMK? SMK: 300 gr / .768 BC ; Hornady: 285 gr / .715 BC. Just trying to understand why anyone should get excited for these when they're already starting out .05 below what the SMKs already do. I imagine you could push them a *touch* faster being 15 gr lighter... but will they even match the SMK performance? Again, sincere question as I'm just starting to get into the 338 game. Thanks.
 
#16
Re: Hornady 285 grain 338 bullet

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Dave Tooley</div><div class="ubbcode-body">A 230gr 30 cal A-Max would be a very long bullet and require a twist rate faster than 1-10. remember everything is a compromise. I want a bullet with enough BC to get the job done and be very accurate. Then I'll learn how to shoot it in the real world.
I don't know what the 30 cal will be weight wise. I like it the way it is at 225 grs. I can invision a 200-205 gr version for the Win Mag. That would be a dandy combo with the new superformance powders.

The good news for us is we have a company working to bring new and improved products to the market place. </div></div>

I thought 1:10" would be ok for a 225-230gr bullet?

It seems a lot of people are using 1:10" with the 240gr SMK.
 
#18
Re: Hornady 285 grain 338 bullet

For 30 cal a 1-10 will handle any lead core HP out there. If you made a 230 A-Max it would be considerably longer than a 240 Sierra. Example compare the 300 Gr. Berger to the 300 gr. Sierra's. The Bergers are about .100" longer. Longer means faster twist. Longer bullet means longer throats or reduced case capacity. Nothing is free.
I'm not sure what the official BC is on the 285 Hornady. I haven't had a chance to measure that myself. I know in the real world they don't give anything up to Sierra's or Scenar's as far drift or drop and are more accurate in the rifles I've tested. The reason for the 285 was for the PSR trials. Hornady didn't have a bullet that would work. I started working with them after Shot Show '09 to develop a new bullet and here we are now. At this point I don't know which bullet is the best. I do know that Hornady and Berger have stepped up and made some very good bullets for us.


I doubt many of you have made bullets before. I have for 30 years and understand the limitations in the manufacturing process. The longer a bullet in relation to the caliber the harder it is to draw a concentric jacket. .0003 TIR is hard to hold when your drawing a cup about 1.500" long. Then try and make bullet dies that are concentric and straight.
The difficulty in making heavy bullets is about like looking at a trajectory chart. The increase in difficulty is not linear. Take a 1K zero on a rifle with come ups of 30 minutes from a 100 yd. zero. Double that 30 to 60 and you only get to about a 1500yd. zero. Same thing with producing heavy bullets. It's easy to make a 168 30 cal. It's not easy to make 225-240. It's at least twice as hard without getting a 50% increase in weight. Also they'll sell probably 100 to 1 168's to 225-240's. The market is small, they're expensive and they're a pain in the ass to make. We ought to be thankful we have the selection we have.

I'd like to take this opportunity to put a plug in for Berger. They've been getting beat up lately. It took some time but they stepped up and made a good 338 bullet. They reached a little too far trying to do what no one else has done which is make a 338 shoot like a 30. They crossed a line in making that bullet which will only improve the final version of that bullet. Yes some are having issues but Berger should be commended for trying to do what hasn't been done before. They've stepped up admitted they over reached and are correcting the problem. Good people. We'll all benefit in the end.
 
#19
Re: Hornady 285 grain 338 bullet

glad hornady is getting on board with the lr 30 , 338 bullets , but also wondering about the low bc. on the 338 looks to lag behind the sierra and lapua , and not even close to the berger .
perhaps it will do better that on target than it looks on paper?
 
#21
Re: Hornady 285 grain 338 bullet

XLR

You'll care about twist rate when velocities go up and bullets come apart. Pure and simple there are physical limitations to what can be done with a lead core bullet. I believe there are high BC lathe turned bullets available that will meet your needs.
 
#22
Re: Hornady 285 grain 338 bullet

Thanks Dave, Your right, I have absolutely no experience making jacketed bullets or any bullets for that matter. It just seems there is a gap in the market on high BC 30 cal bullets. I feel that Sierra's 240 bullet is a "quick fix" for that nitch but that it has really not been designed for that purpose. It would seem that if would be better to go towards a VLD design instead of having such a long bearing surface. I really like solid bullets and try to run them as much as possible. I run them strictly in my 308 and 375. I do not see the advantage of lead core bullets. Why do you feel the market is staying with them? It seems that solids expand with better weight retention for hunting when designed for such and it also seems that you can achieve higher BC's with less weight and higher velocities with solids. I wish Barnes would focus on a high BC line of bullets. If jacketed bullets are harder to manufacture, go to solids, why stick with lead core? In addition, it seems accuracy would be better with solids because they are naturally more consistent.
 
#23
Re: Hornady 285 grain 338 bullet

Solids are much harder to manufacture. They take modern CNC machines and good opperators running them. Most of the soft core bullets are made on cobbled up old world war two presses that were slightly modified to run the bullets of today. They are usually run by people that are not as knowledgable about things like concentricity and such. The presses running soft core bullets that can pump out hundreds of thousands of bullets a day. A twin spindle lathe running solids would be lucky to run in the thausands and the machine its self costs much more to buy. Usually around 100-250,000.00. Machinists that can run a twin spindle lathe and try and keep the consistancy that is needed to run lathe turned solids makes more than a kid off the street that is taught how to read a mich and measure bullets falling off a machine at one of the other bullet companies. Not to mention most of the metals used in expandable solid projectiles is toxic to work around or has to be run in specific ways not to let off toxic fumes or dust. The material alone is way more expensive than running copper strip thrue a draw press. A die for the most part stays pretty consistant as long as you dont break it, it can get alot of parts without changing in dimention too much. With a lathe turned part you get any wear on the tool radius and you have all sorts of problems your geometry is changed in all aspects. Lots of times this cannot be measure with a hand mic but actually needs a comparator or even a CMM to measure the changes. Much more involved.

Jason
 
#24
Re: Hornady 285 grain 338 bullet

XLR

I've been a competitive benchrest shooter for 32 years now. I started on the close in side and for the last 16 years shoot all long range stuff. If solids were the way to go I would have CNC lathe with a bar feed on it running all day. We've tried everything and it gets back to what will work and work well 95% of the time and that's a lead core bullet. BC doesn't make a bullet accurate. In 15 years of 1K yd. competition I can remember maybe three matches where I had bullets with a higher than normal BC that gave me an advantage. They were shot with a custom made 150 gr 6.5 BTHP, Sierra 7MM 175's when they first came out. I have never had consistant results when I went to extremes. Take those 6.5 bullets. The first lot we made we couldn't do any wrong with them. Point and shoot, sub 5" groups were the norm at 1K. New lot of jackets and we had a batch of disappearing bullets. That took three years to pin point the problem. An accurate bullet is about balance. VLD's boost the BC but change the center of gravity. Move the lead to far forward to get the weight up and strange things happen, none of them good. Pull the lead line back and you have too long a bearing surface, friction and heat go up sometimes to a point of melting the core. Venture into unknow areas with jackets and you can have other problems as Berger found out. They've made a good bullet but have to make some compromises in the jacket now to get them to live at higher speeds. This change may or may not hurt the accuracy, time will tell. All I'm trying to say is the extremes don't work most of the time and they damn sure violate rule #1. Don't do anything to make the phone ring.
I agree with you on the Sierra 240. Kinda funny looking but boy are they accurate. I'd put them in the top three most accurate 30 cal. bullets I've ever shot. I'd say the bullet manufactures are staying away from heavy solid bullets because it is a very very small niche because when you get the weight up twist rates go off the fast end of the scale and nobody has proven that rifle after rifle solids are predictably accurate.
 
#27
Re: Hornady 285 grain 338 bullet

Samson

I have no experience with those bullets. From my testing with after market tips I'd say their BC #'s may be on the optimistic side. Kinda pricey also. I know a very good shooter who fabricates his own AL tips, installs them in 6MM bullets and does well with them. With enough effort and care a lot of things will work but not in a manufacuring plant making 200K to 2 million in a run. I know at one time Sierra had one press that for three shifts a day makes nothing but 30 cal 168's. That was pre Obama and that's a lot of bullets in a year.
 
#28
Re: Hornady 285 grain 338 bullet

XLR

No problem hijacking the thread. I piss bountyhunter off at least 5 times a year so he's used to it.

Back to the H 285's Hrnday has not measured the BC over a chronograph yet. The .710-.720 number out there is a conservative calculated number. From my experience they are equal in accuracy to the Berger's. They will fly side by side with the Scenar's and Sierra's at distance. The Hornady's have a secondary point on them that makes a big difference, not as good as a tip but a step in the right direction. I talked to my engineer friend Iwork with at Hornady and this run shoots better than the prototype run I have.
 
#29
Re: Hornady 285 grain 338 bullet

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Dave Tooley</div><div class="ubbcode-body">No problem hijacking the thread. I piss bountyhunter off at least 5 times a year so he's used to it. </div></div>

Dang Dave are you showing your kinder gentler side?

Herman
 
#33
Re: Hornady 285 grain 338 bullet

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Dave Tooley</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Update on the 285's. They will be introduced in 2011. </div></div>

frown.gif
 
#35
Re: Hornady 285 grain 338 bullet

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Dave Tooley</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Update on the 285's. They will be introduced in 2011. </div></div>

That's great news. Only 4 more months.
smile.gif
 
#36
Re: Hornady 285 grain 338 bullet

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Dave Tooley</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Update on the 285's. They will be introduced in 2011. </div></div>

Looking forward to it. Hopefully it's the beginning of 2011 rather than last quarter of 2011
 
#37
Re: Hornady 285 grain 338 bullet

And based on what Dave Tooley has said I'm confident these 285's will not have any of the issues the 300 Bergers had for us 338 Lapua Improved users
 
#38
Re: Hornady 285 grain 338 bullet

I never saw a conclusion to this thread so I thought I would chime in, as I just returned from the range. I had been researching this bullet for a couple of weeks. I stumbled upon these by mistake when my normal Sierra 300gr fix was not met by my local store. If the production stays tight on these I’ll never go back. I have had trouble getting the SMKs under .75 MOA and maintaining it. Here is the field report.

Three shot group @ 500 yards 1.946"

Stats:
AR-30 338 Lapua
26" barrel
EST. 2700 FPS
Hornady 285gr match
Lapua Brass (FF NS)
Powder US869 104.0gr
CCI 250 LRM Primers
0.01" off the lands

Wind 240 degrees 5-8 knots gusting to 15 knots
Temp 86F
Elev 2640
Hum 12%

I was shooting from a bench, off the bipod.

Pictures to follow. If I can get them to work!
 
#43
Re: Hornady 285 grain 338 bullet

I'm running the 285 with 93.5 of Retumbo, loaded COAL of 3.725, a little long for the AI magazine. 2800 fps, outstanding accuracy so far, though the weather has prevented me getting past 800. This weekend I should get it out to 2K.
 
#44
Re: Hornady 285 grain 338 bullet

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Mcgruber</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Rune, What's the twist rate in your Ar? I can't remember... Curious to try them myself.
Thanks. Bill </div></div>

The AR-30 is 1-10
 
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