Hornady LNL ammo plant vs Dillon 1050

[RickyRodney]

Hello,
I want to load 9mm, .223 and .308 in mass. I plan to load with TMKs/SMKs and not load bulk blaster ammo but decent ammo with SDs that can compete with box bought ammo. So I'm mostly concerned with which progressive press has the most accurate powder measure, the Dillon 1050 or the Hornday LNL AP? I have seen set-ups where you can automate the 1050 which is attractive, so all things being equal I will probably go that route.

Thanks for the feedback.

 

[Jrb572]

Go Dillon. You’re going to be disappointed if you buy the Hornady. If you want to save some money buy the 750

 

[Hoser]

For sure, without any doubt, get the 1050 or 1100.

 

[99mpower]

get the 1100.. smoother action than the 1050, as long as you dont need the increased capacity to load longer ammo in the S1050.

You are not going to want to automate the 1050/1100 though for more precision rifle loading. "Plinking 556/762", run it automated all day long. If you want precision though, wouldnt automate. (I have TWO automated 1050s, a 650, (2) Rock Chuckers, and all the other precision rifle laoding stuff)

 

[Hoser]

The only advantage of the 1050 over the 1100 (I have both) is the shorter throw of the handle.

I think the 1100 is a more refined machine with some nice improvements over the 1050.

 

[RickyRodney]

get the 1100.. smoother action than the 1050, as long as you dont need the increased capacity to load longer ammo in the S1050.

You are not going to want to automate the 1050/1100 though for more precision rifle loading. "Plinking 556/762", run it automated all day long. If you want precision though, wouldnt automate. (I have TWO automated 1050s, a 650, (2) Rock Chuckers, and all the other precision rifle laoding stuff)

Can you explain why automating the press makes it less accurate?

 

[CK1.0]

Can you explain why automating the press makes it less accurate?

I'd guess, probably the fact that most of us who're shooting past 600 yards on the regular are dropping our powder charges to the kernel and seating our bullets carefully, which requires a little more nuance than what one can get from an automated press built for cranking out rounds.

I have a Dillon and don't think they can't put out amazing ammo, I know they can.

But if you're putting together ammo recipes that use Lapua/Alpha brass and require hard-to-find components like BR4s/450s and/or Varget or something, and topping it off with $.40-.80 bullets... and you want to get tiny SDs and hit the itty bitty shit way the fuck out there, an automated press probably isn't the best tool for the job.

Now, 1000-round carbine classes or 10,000-round USPSA John Wick sessions... perfect for that.

If you're a baller and are only looking for ~1MOA guns it'll work, but like that Fudd says, only accurate guns are interesting lol.

 

[99mpower]

Can you explain why automating the press makes it less accurate?

in my experience, running the press at "smooth" automated speeds, I dont get consistent trim lengths, perfect shoulder bump, even powder drops, etc. Because of the moving shell plate, inconsistencies in the press, etc, I dont make as accurate ammo as I do when I use a single stage, FX120 trickler, Giraurd trimmer, etc. I will crank out 9mm, 40, 45, and 223/7.62 plinking ammo all day long on my automated 1050s. If I want precision rifle ammo, I'm taking the time to do it properly, and get single digit SDs. I've never been able to accomplish that on my 1050, even when it wasnt automated.

I know some PRS guys who load 6 and 6.5 creed on a 650, and can get single digit SDs, but Ive never tried that with my 650

 

[redbullitt]

Love my dillon 550 for most things.

The dillon will smoke the hornady.... my red press does okay for brass prep these days fwiw...

The 1050 or 750 will crank out 9mm and 5.56 for me like nobody's business lol, but are not what i run for precision. They are pretty good, but not the same as a 550 or single stage.

 

[rdinak]

I have 2-550's, 3-1050's and a Redding T7.

It would take a very gifted shooter to be able to sample loads from all 3 platforms and show the difference on target. And yes i have lots gauges and precision measuring tools.

 

[BuildingConceptsllc]

I'd like to revive this thread for more discussion. My loading room is in the works and since I will finally have a truly dedicated room to load, I want to set it up to do what I want it to do. However, I have zero experience with progressive presses, but would definitely like to churn out a lot of ammo.

I have been contemplating and reading threads for a while now concerning the different options but am still undecided. I actually have been looking hard at the new Mark7 Genesys system, as it looks like with the use of the 3 servo driven system, you could actually make really good precision ammo on it and it would be automated. Of course I don't know how accurate the powder system is, but even throwing off press, (assuming you can and it makes sense to do it) it seems like it would get very good results.

Then of course there's the 1050/1100 dillon option with auto drive, that may be more useful but the movement of the system makes me doubt the accuracy of the load.

Any comments would be appreciated. If I need to just make separate thread I will do that but this seems like a good one to discuss it in.

 

[99mpower]

Automated for “plinking” ammo or pistol stuff, and turret for precision would be my go to

If you have the cash for automation, I’m a huge fan of Dillon as I have two automated 1050s with Ammobot’s and all the sensors

 

[Smokeytok]

Don’t let the blue fanboys sway you from the Hornady LNL AP press. It’s a Ford vs Chevy debate. They both produce equal quality ammo. I actually run my press as a single stage because I hand drop the powder to the kernel. I shoot ELR out to 2400 and beyond and the Hornady does great.

I also believe consistency is critical but the .001 variation of any press isn’t going to matter. The biggest reason folks don’t use the Hornady LNL AP for ELR stuff is because once you start getting to really long bullets, you start running out of space and throwing powder in an automated setup isn’t accurate enough for ELR on ANY automated press.

You can fully automate a LNL AP as well but honestly automated ammo and single digit SDs aren’t really a reality. The powder dispensers just don’t stay consistent enough.

IMO the best situation is 2-3 presses. I use an old Lee to do my depriming outside in the garage because it’s dirty. I use my Hornady to run bulk ammo (a Dillion 550, 650 or 1050 will do the same) that is still factory box or better accurate then if you want real precision, a single stage press is the best….I recommend the RCBS 50 press as you can load every caliber you will ever shoot including 50 BMG.

 

[BuildingConceptsllc]

Yeah I've already got 3 presses and definitely wouldn't give them up, I'd just like to be able to kick out ammo with good precision. I like my turret press for precision rounds, it's great and I use my IP trickler.

 

[CK1.0]

IMHO the issue with trying to use a progressive press to load precision rounds is that, in the end, if one is doing it right, they're not going to end up saving as much time as they thought (even using an automated press).

Obviously, a case feeder makes life easier as far as not having to touch every piece of brass... but to do things right means filling that case feeder up 2-3 times, using multiple tool heads, running multiple passes, then, slamming on the brakes to drop powder (basically stalling the press and slowing things down to a crawl on the last pass).

If I've learned anything on my "reloading journey" it's that sometimes it's just easier (and most times, faster) to just embrace the suck and refine one's process to where the rounds come out exactly how one wants, while steadily cleaning up their game so they become as efficient as possible.

Many times I find doing things the simple caveman way usually leaves little chance for things to get fucked up, and anyone who has a progressive press knows that sometimes things can pop up, get messed up or out of whack, and completely derail you... killing any potential time savings... slow is smooth, and smooth is fast as they say.

 

[99mpower]

but slow is slow, and fast is fast.. and you can be smooth both slow and fast...


sorry i had to, i hate that damn saying.. slow is slow.. period, youre slow.. if you want to be fast, then go fast, and either be smooth or dont be smooth, but decide, slow or fast, and then figure out how to be smooth

 

[CK1.0]

but slow is slow, and fast is fast.. and you can be smooth both slow and fast...


sorry i had to, i hate that damn saying.. slow is slow.. period, youre slow.. if you want to be fast, then go fast, and either be smooth or dont be smooth, but decide, slow or fast, and then figure out how to be smooth

I hope that's not how you pick your doctors or mechanics.

I think for precision rounds, the details/quality/repeatability matter more than pure speed.

That and, apples to apples, in the end, using a progressive, even an automated one, with multiple tool heads, tumbling lube off in between passes, off-press trim/chamfer, dropping powder to the kernel, placing bullets by hand... if you're making the same quality shit most guys can make using a single-stage, then you may be saving a little pain, but not a whole lot of time.

But, truthfully it's not really apples to apples, I feel like I can make better precision ammo with my single-stage versus my Dillon, and since I know it really doesn't take that much longer, and will come out perfect with no surprises every time... that's how I choose to do it. If I thought the time savings was significant enough to be worth it, without the ammo quality going downhill, then I'd run the progressive for everything up to and including my mandrel step... (and then would still choose to finish up seating bullets on the single-stage anyways).

For my ~2500-3500 precision rounds per year, I'd rather keep it simple as the added speed wouldn't really matter much, but if one shoots more than I do, maybe it would?

For my ~10-15k of blaster stuff? Hell yes to the progressive.

 

[Hoser]

Loading ammo on my 550 and Prometheus, it spits out a loaded every time I pull the handle to the tune of about 200-250 rounds an hour.

Everything from 17 Mach IV to 338 Lapua.

 

[BuildingConceptsllc]

Maybe I'd be better off getting a 650 and a 1100 with an auto drive? I could throw with my IP and run auto for plinking and still be under the cost of the genesys?

 

[CK1.0]

Maybe I'd be better off getting a 650 and a 1100 with an auto drive? I could throw with my IP and run auto for plinking and still be under the cost of the genesys?

I think 2 (or even 3) separate presses is the way. There’s certain things with precision rounds that require more attention than blaster rounds, and automation isn’t always the right answer.

That said, a case feeder and auto-indexing are beautiful things when used appropriately…

 

[99mpower]

Maybe I'd be better off getting a 650 and a 1100 with an auto drive? I could throw with my IP and run auto for plinking and still be under the cost of the genesys?

If you want to run “precision” on a progressive, I’d get a 550 with case feeder. You control when you rotate, and way more caliber options.

1100 with Audi drive is a great option for pistol and plinking rifle

550 with case feeder and set it up for precision

IMHO, probably the best combo for only two machines, without having too much stuff going on

 

[BuildingConceptsllc]

This is the kind of info I need. I will keep making my real precision rifle ammo on my turret and single stage presses like I always have. I'd like to make really good ammo ( doest have to be quite on the level of my precision rifle ammo though) , and do it faster than single stage, and I also want to be able to crank out plinking / blaster ammo. I'm just not sure the best way to that and use as much tech ( auto drive, ect) as I'd reasonable, while still achieving my ammo goal.

Sounding like a 550( would 650 also work here?) And a 1050/1100 with case and bullet feeder for both ( is them sharing those even a feasible option?), and an auto drive for the 1050/1100, would be the way to go???

 

[CK1.0]

A 550 is just a good press to have in any reloading room, I'm kind of pissed that I don't have one (yet). I won't talk you out of one.

But, for what you plan on doing, in the lower-volume role, a 750, due to its auto-indexing, might be a better fit (especially to fully exploit an MBF). I have an XL750 + MBF exclusively for 9mm and can make a legit 800-1000rds per hour (once I shake the rust off, since I usually load ~5-10k at a time over a rainy weekend and then forget about it for months).

An auto-drive 1050/1100 for blaster stuff is solid and dependable. I know some USPSA/3-gun guys who beat on those to the tune of ~50+k per year.

Whatever you decide on, don't forget that Dillon offers all of their presses in "no caliber" configuration and you'll probably want those if you plan to pick your own dies.

 

[99mpower]

I have a 650 with case feeder and MBF and (2) 1050s with case feeders/MBF/Ammobot Autodrives..

Cranking out 10k in 5-6 hours of 9mm on an auto drive is easy.

I barely use my 650 anymore, as it doesn’t make a lot of sense, when you have to “WORK” to make 800-1000 rds/hr.

On a 1050/1100 auto drive, just watch it, keep it filled and enjoy (RF100 is required for primer filling)

If you have the cash for an auto drive, do it, you won’t regret it, and save the money on a 650/750 and just get a 550. Cheaper conversions and arguably better precision ammo

 

[BuildingConceptsllc]

Really appreciate the info guys!!!

I've come close to getting a used 550 on here a few times, but have just been waiting for my loading room so I didn't have to add more stuff to move and pack up.

What would be the advantages and disadvantages of a 550 vs a 750/650 as it relates to auto indexing vs manual when it comes to making good ammo? Wouldnt auto indexing always be preferred, or is there some reason youd not want that if you were throwing the powder off press? I would think the 550 /650/750 (whichever I go with) would be mainly used for making a lot of 223 ammo that is really good, but maybe not quite what I can do on a single stage.

I figure the plinking pistol and plinking rifle ammo (though if im being honest i want all rifle ammo to be pretty good) both will be done on the 1050, and true precision rifle done the same way I do now on single.

 

[Tokay444]

I have an ammo plant, and it’s biggest weakness is weakness. If I’m decapping/sizing on station one, while seating a bullet on station four, I get a vastly different seating depth than when there’s nothing in station one.

 

[gigamortis]

Volumetric powder drops with extruded powder is a fools game if you want single digit SDs for long range. The necessary consistency will not be there with +/- .3gr variation between drops. Weighed charges with extruded powder will enable you to achieve single digit SDs if the rest of your loading process is adequate.

Another challenge on a progressive press is consistency of bullet seating length. All aluminum framed progressives flex a variable amount depending on the force imparted into the frame by the case resizing station. A very well lubed case getting sized will cause a shorter seating length at the bullet seater station. A marginally lubed case will cause a longer seating length.

Trying to load long range ammo on a progressive press is just asking to be disappointed along with wasting components. A cast iron single stage press with weighed charges is about the only way to successfully load for long range.

 

[BuildingConceptsllc]

Volumetric powder drops with extruded powder is a fools game if you want single digit SDs for long range. The necessary consistency will not be there with +/- .3gr variation between drops. Weighed charges with extruded powder will enable you to achieve single digit SDs if the rest of your loading process is adequate.

Another challenge on a progressive press is consistency of bullet seating length. All aluminum framed progressives flex a variable amount depending on the force imparted into the frame by the case resizing station. A very well lubed case getting sized will cause a shorter seating length at the bullet seater station. A marginally lubed case will cause a longer seating length.

Trying to load long range ammo on a progressive press is just asking to be disappointed along with wasting components. A cast iron single stage press with weighed charges is about the only way to successfully load for long range.

I've read this before, but I've also seen people say they make great ammo on their progressive.... this is the main reason I was looking at the mark 7 genesys . Of course basically no one even has one yet and I'm sure few will but, to my amature progressive eye, it looks like the genesys wouldn't suffer from this phenomena, due to its design. Comments???

 

[CK1.0]

Really appreciate the info guys!!!

I've come close to getting a used 550 on here a few times, but have just been waiting for my loading room so I didn't have to add more stuff to move and pack up.

What would be the advantages and disadvantages of a 550 vs a 750/650 as it relates to auto indexing vs manual when it comes to making good ammo? Wouldnt auto indexing always be preferred, or is there some reason youd not want that if you were throwing the powder off press? I would think the 550 /650/750 (whichever I go with) would be mainly used for making a lot of 223 ammo that is really good, but maybe not quite what I can do on a single stage.

I figure the plinking pistol and plinking rifle ammo (though if im being honest i want all rifle ammo to be pretty good) both will be done on the 1050, and true precision rifle done the same way I do now on single.

For .223/5.56 stuff, the 1050/1100 will be the tool for the job (at least for one of the passes) due to them having on-press swaging.

As far as 550 vs 750 (BTW/FWIW I hate the 650 priming system so I wouldn't even consider one)...

If/when loading the same stuff, a 750 will end up being a lot faster, it's designed to be, there's no getting around the advantages of auto-indexing versus manually indexing the shell plate. A 550 can do all sorts of things well, but not pure speed, the biggest thing IMO is that they weren't originally designed with a case feeder in mind, so when you add one, the case feeder mounted up front kind of ends up getting in the way a bit for certain things (and IDK if one can even add an MBF to a 550?). I don't really think of a 550 as a true progressive press... a 550 is more like sort of a single-stage/turret/progressive-hybrid.

JMHO but if you're going to hold onto a dedicated single-stage (which I think is a good idea) then that kind of cancels out some of the usefulness of a 550 in your case.

I guess I would look at it like this: 750 for fast brass prep (that doesn't need to be swaged), high-volume pistol rounds, and high-volume rifle stuff if you want... while a 1050/1100 is pretty much built for automation and fast high-volume rifle stuff.

The cool thing about having a few different presses around is that you'll probably come up with ways to use them together in tandem to accomplish different things.

I know I went on and on about how I prefer making my precision rifle ammo all on a single-stage... but if I wanted pure speed with the least amount of manual labor, I'd buy a couple of tool heads and run a couple of passes on my 750: 1 pass to decap and FL size, then I'd tumble off the lube, and then another pass to mandrel the cases, prime, and then hit an M die (something I've always wanted to try in lieu of a chamfer step). For the final/last step I'd just put all the cases in loading blocks, drop powder with a funnel, and then seat bullets like I prefer to with the single-stage. Since I try to stay on top of things, loading 100 here and 100 there, doing it all on the single-stage really isn't that bad... but every time I batch load 300-400+ I wonder why I don't have that shit setup and ready to go already lol.

 

[Ruff 364]

I'm on the list for a Genesys. According to them you won't see one until late fall as they are putting 100 percent effort into the launch of the Titan first.

My intent with the Genesys is mainly blaster ammo (9/223), but I plan to experiment with PR ammo by using a powder drop die and just manually add my charge with powder drop die.

I've read this before, but I've also seen people say they make great ammo on their progressive.... this is the main reason I was looking at the mark 7 genesys . Of course basically no one even has one yet and I'm sure few will but, to my amature progressive eye, it looks like the genesys wouldn't suffer from this phenomena, due to its design. Comments???

 

[BuildingConceptsllc]

I'm on the list for a Genesys. According to them you won't see one until late fall as they are putting 100 percent effort into the launch of the Titan first.

My intent with the Genesys is mainly blaster ammo (9/223), but I plan to experiment with PR ammo by using a powder drop die and just manually add my charge with powder drop die.

That was my thinking on it too. It seems like it would seat bullets pretty consistently. I can get decent SD with staball and semi decent with TAC for 223, if seating depth isn't an issue then seems as though pretty good ammo could be made on it and it would of course function really well for blaster ammo in pistol and rifle. Of course it would be great to throw off press with my IP and use that machine too.

I don't mind spending the money on a legit set up IF... it will do what I want it to do for a long time. If not, then I think 2 dillon machines plus my 3 other single stage would do really anything I wanted as quickly as is really possible while making pretty good ammo.

 

[jetsurgeon]

Dillon 650 / 750 with case feeder, bullet feeder, and Mark 7 Auto Drive..... Had a Hornady LNL plant years ago, it's long gone....

 

[Hawk in WY]

1050 or 1100 for quantity plus a Coax for precision.

Works for me.

Good luck.

 

[ZombieMonkey]

Dillon is the way to go in my book. I don't love that Lyman bought out Mark 7 and you could not pay me to take a Hornady LNL press (been there, done that, never again).

I run a 650 and an 1100. The 1100 I only run 9mm and 223 through as the change over on a 1050/1100 is a bit more involved than on a 550/650/750, especially if you are trying to change primer sizes. My 650 is setup for all pistol ammo other than 9mm as well as precision ammo for the gas guns (223, 308, and 6.5 creed more) as well as the 308 I sometimes run in my AI. Depending on the rifle caliber and level of precision needed, I will either run the Dillon powder measure or drop charges from the Auto Trickler manually through a powder thru die. I deprime the rifle calibers I load on a Redding single stage on the 650 well as I have a toolhead dedicated for depriming any caliber with a FW Arms Primer Popper. For loading precision rifle ammo there really is no reason I could not load other calibers on the 650, I just don't turn enough volume to justify a prep and loading toolhead dedicated to each of most of them as I just don't want to store that many tool heads. I have been running the 650 in this manner for the last 10 years after punting the Hornady LNL AP I fought with for 5 years. You can absolutely make precision ammo on a progressive with the right setups. Here are a couple pictures of my bench to show you what I have found works well for me.