Horse Power, Track Shit, Torque, Cubic Inches, Liters, Run What Ya Brung, Auto or Cycle

I've heard some generalized talk of engine out procedures but can't nail down what they are. One guy said timing belt, but I just did that in two hours easy peasy, so that ain't it. Everything else is pretty accessible.

Long term plans after fixing the rust are along the same lines as my 944. Make it look goodish from 20', model the exterior after a Euro model or whatever the cleanest, simplest version the car was, lose 15-20% of the weight while retaining a full interior, gain as much power as I can without opening up the bottom end (header/exhaust, Weber carb, spicy cam and a big valve ported head, aluminum flywheel) increase spring rates and shock valving about 30%, poly bushings everywhere, fine tune oversteer/understeer balance with sway bars, address brakes if necessary for fast road use, medium sticky tires on some lightweight wheels, then drive the hell out of it on empty WI backroads on weekend mornings.

And then sell it to my middle son at a huge discount, because he was the driving factor in purchasing it, he's my wrenching buddy, and he's my main passenger on those weekend morning twisty roads.

I've been involved in a lot of engine swaps, three of them on my personal vehicles, and generally despise them these days. If I liked the car enough to buy it I don't want to change it's character and a huge part of the character of weird old cars comes from the engine. I just want to see that character snort a little cocaine and get a bit crazy.
Problem with that is that "character" usually means no longer supported, like trying to find better breathing 425 nailhead heads, cams, or really anything. Hard to justify character when it's about the same hp/tq as a b58 Toyota/BMW motor that gets 30 mpg, is more resilient/reliable, and is attached to a much better driving experience.

Nostalgia costs money and cars are not a cheap hobby. Far more expensive than shooting I think.
 
Problem with that is that "character" usually means no longer supported, like trying to find better breathing 425 nailhead heads, cams, or really anything. Hard to justify character when it's about the same hp/tq as a b58 Toyota/BMW motor that gets 30 mpg, is more resilient/reliable, and is attached to a much better driving experience.

Nostalgia costs money and cars are not a cheap hobby. Far more expensive than shooting I think.
For sure. I'm not brave enough to get in really deep on anything truly vintage or obscure, so before I decide I must have some car I do some research on parts availability. If it looks like a lot of stuff is NLA I'm out.
 
For sure. I'm not brave enough to get in really deep on anything truly vintage or obscure, so before I decide I must have some car I do some research on parts availability. If it looks like a lot of stuff is NLA I'm out.
Yeah but..... That leaves cruise in's and car shows with a shit ton of tri fives, 60's model mustangs, a bazillion Chevelle's, 442s and other run of the mill stuff. Ohh and everything with an LS stuck under the hood.

My 66 Olds is a one year car and I know what you are talking about. There's been a time or ten that I was ready to burn it in the driveway just to roast marshmallows over it.
 
Yeah but..... That leaves cruise in's and car shows with a shit ton of tri fives, 60's model mustangs, a bazillion Chevelle's, 442s and other run of the mill stuff. Ohh and everything with an LS stuck under the hood.

My 66 Olds is a one year car and I know what you are talking about. There's been a time or ten that I was ready to burn it in the driveway just to roast marshmallows over it.
Hey man, I appreciate your tenacity and keeping it alive. It just seemed like a money pit I couldn't get out of. Yea, unique has it's own cool factor, but knowing it's a failure away from being a drivetrain swap is not fun. It's like always looking over your shoulder. I don't think most people understand at all when they see something crazy kept alive by force of will.
 
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First track day of 2025 was yesterday. It was a rough day. The track was just resurfaced and is still slick. It was 40*F with 30+ MPH sustained winds and gusts at 60+. On one of the straights, a huge burst of perpendicular wind actually moved the car several inches (shortly after this we called it a day). The wind was cold and made keeping heat in the tires and brakes impossible at my skill level. The cool thing was my oldest got to ride with me. He had a big time, even though I wasn’t pushing the car or myself, at all - for all the reasons. It was a great time to work on lines and landmarks, since the track markers have all been removed. On the way back, the wind actually picked up. It was a miserable drive home. We watched a couple of vehicles get blown off the roadway and dodging the empty trailers was a constant struggle.

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Hallet is an awesome track to race on.
 
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I love what's still being done with the 2JZ inline 6 from the 93.5-98 Toyota Supras, this one named "White Rice" is a Nissan 240 SX shape with 3,000 HP now on around 200 cubic inches. Besides a few mixed domestic/import events like TX2K it runs against the fastest x275 and radial cars in the world. It's current radial 1/4 mile time from last weekend is 6.08@235mph at TX2K and this is the X275 record pass of 4.033@184 in the 1/8th. They were shooting for a 5 second pass and it looks like the transmission wouldn't upshift in the finals




 
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It ain't much. Only 8.8 hp. But, it sure is fun, very competitive and quiets the mind for a moment. :cool:
 

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If any one hasn't had the pleasantry of being in a kart racing community before.....This little documentary describes what it's all about very well. Family, community and damn good racing. I have never met someone at the track that wasn't willing to help me out or make me and my chassis faster. Everyone helps everyone. Really good times! ;)🤜

 
I love what's still being done with the 2JZ inline 6 from the 93.5-98 Toyota Supras, this one named "White Rice" is a Nissan 240 SX shape with 3,000 HP now on around 200 cubic inches. Besides a few mixed domestic/import events like TX2K it runs against the fastest x275 and radial cars in the world. It's current radial 1/4 mile time from last weekend is 6.08@235mph at TX2K and this is the X275 record pass of 4.033@184 in the 1/8th. They were shooting for a 5 second pass and it looks like the transmission wouldn't upshift in the finals





Those little power plants have been breaking v8 guys hearts for a long time
 
Those little power plants have been breaking v8 guys hearts for a long time

Would you like an engine with your turbo???

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Yeah I've been into Supras since 82 when my Dad brought one home, he replaced it with an 84 or 85. My Dad was always a Chevy guy with various hot rods from the 50's on up, he was President of a Northern California Camaro club in the 70's.
I messed around with some old Toyotas like a 72 Corolla that was too much work and I sold, an 85 Corolla GTS with bolt ons and a 60 shot and later an 89 Supra Turbo with bolt ons. Cars get me in trouble though lol
 
If any one hasn't had the pleasantry of being in a kart racing community before.....This little documentary describes what it's all about very well. Family, community and damn good racing. I have never met someone at the track that wasn't willing to help me out or make me and my chassis faster. Everyone helps everyone. Really good times! ;)🤜


Spent some time in my early adulthood racing Yamaha 2 stroke karts. It was a great time, I raced as hard as I could till real life caught up to me and I ran out of money to burn. It's wild how expensive one of the cheapest forms of motorsports is. I still go to my home track and rent a 4 stroke now and then just to remember the good old days.
 
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Yeah but..... That leaves cruise in's and car shows with a shit ton of tri fives, 60's model mustangs, a bazillion Chevelle's, 442s and other run of the mill stuff. Ohh and everything with an LS stuck under the hood.
In theory that's not true. The parts market to restore and upgrade (within reason) stuff like old British roasters, Mini's, vintage Porsches, certain BMW's, and as I've learned recently, Fiats and Alfas is pretty lively.
In reality though, yeah, 95% of what you see at shows around here is exactly what you listed. My corner of the midwest is not exactly a hotbed of eclectic tastes. We still have plenty of boomers that will walk around shows and loudly scoff at anything with a 4 cylinder.
 
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Spent some time in my early adulthood racing Yamaha 2 stroke karts. It was a great time, I raced as hard as I could till real life caught up to me and I ran out of money to burn. It's wild how expensive one of the cheapest forms of motorsports is. I still go to my home track and rent a 4 stroke now and then just to remember the good old days.

I started racing 2 stroke yamaha's around 2004 in So. Cal. I started working with an engine builder in Carlsbad, CA(High-Rev Engineering) till '09 when I had to decide I needed a "real" job and joined the military instead. I've torn many a Yamaha apart to repair the top and low end and throw back on the dyno to break in. Started racing 4 cycles about 3 years ago and they last a whole lot LONGER than the alternative. But, 2 strokes smell, sound better and are more fun to drive :LOL: Kart racing and being at the track will always have a special place in my heart :)
 
Started racing 4 cycles about 3 years ago and they last a whole lot LONGER than the alternative. But, 2 strokes smell, sound better and are more fun to drive :LOL: Kart racing and being at the track will always have a special place in my heart :)
Yeah 2 strokes were dying out locally when I started (2007?) and all the competition started moving to the Briggs spec series. But man were those 4 strokes uninspiring to listen to. Even the faster ones looked slow going around the track just because of the lack of auditory drama.
 
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My statement was kinda tongue in cheek.
I started this thread because I am a "car" guy. All of them. Well, except for the Smart car and the new egg shaped Fiat. Front wheel drive, 4,6,8,10 cylinders, foreign and domestic it doesn't matter.

In reality though, yeah, 95% of what you see at shows around here is exactly what you listed. My corner of the midwest is not exactly a hotbed of eclectic tastes. We still have plenty of boomers that will walk around shows and loudly scoff at anything with a 4 cylinder.

I've seen that and I have asked a few of them if they changed what music they listened to because the generation before them didn't like the music they were listening to? They are into cars and that's what is important. Some get it, others don't.
A local car club asked me to join with them and I declined. When they asked why I told them that it was because they didn't allow anything but domestic cars. They said something about me only having domestic cars and I said that doesn't mean what they are doing with those other brands aren't cool stuff. It's just stuff that you don't understand. They could probably teach you a thing or two.
 
My statement was kinda tongue in cheek.
I started this thread because I am a "car" guy. All of them. Well, except for the Smart car and the new egg shaped Fiat. Front wheel drive, 4,6,8,10 cylinders, foreign and domestic it doesn't matter.



I've seen that and I have asked a few of them if they changed what music they listened to because the generation before them didn't like the music they were listening to? They are into cars and that's what is important. Some get it, others don't.
A local car club asked me to join with them and I declined. When they asked why I told them that it was because they didn't allow anything but domestic cars. They said something about me only having domestic cars and I said that doesn't mean what they are doing with those other brands aren't cool stuff. It's just stuff that you don't understand. They could probably teach you a thing or two.
Exactly. I would love to have cars of all makes, models and eras. I grew up in muscle car land. Got my license and went balls deep in the Japanese tuner world because I couldn't afford the 66 Chevelle I always dreamed of. Eventually stumbled into Euro sports cars, and I can appreciate all of them.
I've got friends with Model T's, 7 second drag and drive cars, air cooled VW stuff, mini trucks, Land Rovers, Fieros, overlanding Tacoma's, Kei cars, Diesel pickups and even a Tesla friend (gasp!) plus a bunch of other stuff. I can talk with them about their cars and learn new things for hours and love hearing people excited about them.
I engage with as many people as I can at car shows, but far and away, the hardest crowd to make new friends with are the socks with sandals die hard domestic car guys. I've had multiple conversations with guys where after 10 minutes of telling me about their car they ask what I have, and when I tell them they go "Oh" and turn around and walk away.
 
Cars are like music to me, as long as it has a catchy beat, I can listen to it for a bit. Doesn’t mean it’s all I like or will listen to. Gotta admire a cool piece, most are pieces of art hidden in there. Same as some of the funky guns I have laying around I guess.

I grew up with cars, my brother built custom hot hots for over 20 years. He had worked for Mark Campbell at Street and Performance until Mark died. He has worked on some wild rides. I’ll try to dig up some pictures later on
 
I'll never claim to have seen it all, but I'm getting closer.
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I was just starting to make peace with all the rust I have to fight. Didn't know the previous owners were gonna leave landmines all over the car.
I’ve worked with a few people that were this dumb. Thankfully they didn’t last very long
 
One of my daughters' car. 1980 Formula with a 301cu Olds engine.
All original, other than being repainted by previous owner, who had stated it had never been winter driven, which based on the under body condition , was believable.
She and I also replaced the stock diff with a Camaro posi, just because we had access to one. .
These pics are 10 yrs old. She stripped the interior just to clean down to factory finish, and survey interior metal condition, which proved to be basically rust free.
The factory line sheet was still tucked in the springs of the rear seat, and was in mint condition.
Her intention is to rebuild/upgrade the engine, replace the suspension, rubber door/trunk seals, window felts, etc., and replace the seat covers, which are faded. It runs and drives 'fine', but not how it did in '80.
She got a boy friend :rolleyes: and has done little to it in this time, other than drive it occasionally.

🤔 Dad might have to take over the project on his own if she doesn't soon realize this car is more important than 'boys'. 🤣


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Yeah but..... That leaves cruise in's and car shows with a shit ton of tri fives, 60's model mustangs, a bazillion Chevelle's, 442s and other run of the mill stuff. Ohh and everything with an LS stuck under the hood.

My 66 Olds is a one year car and I know what you are talking about. There's been a time or ten that I was ready to burn it in the driveway just to roast marshmallows over it.
I did power tour last year and you’re right…. EVERYTHING had an LS in it. I was pretty tired of seeing 69 Chevelles with 6.0 truck motors by the time we got to Indianapolis.
 
One of my daughters' car. 1980 Formula with a 301cu Olds engine.
All original, other than being repainted by previous owner, who had stated it had never been winter driven, which based on the under body condition , was believable.
She and I also replaced the stock diff with a Camaro posi, just because we had access to one. .
These pics are 10 yrs old. She stripped the interior just to clean down to factory finish, and survey interior metal condition, which proved to be basically rust free.
The factory line sheet was still tucked in the springs of the rear seat, and was in mint condition.
Her intention is to rebuild/upgrade the engine, replace the suspension, rubber door/trunk seals, window felts, etc., and replace the seat covers, which are faded. It runs and drives 'fine', but not how it did in '80.
She got a boy friend :rolleyes: and has done little to it in this time, other than drive it occasionally.

🤔 Dad might have to take over the project on his own if she doesn't soon realize this car is more important than 'boys'. 🤣


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Hold onto it. Boyfriends come and go, she'll get back into it again.
 
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I’ve worked with a few people that were this dumb. Thankfully they didn’t last very long

I’ve seen the memes. You found one in real life? Fantastic!
They did the other 3 corners just fine, I'm not sure how you even goof up like that. And it made just as much noise as you'd expect so if they drove it at all afterwards they had to immediately know something was wrong.
 
Hold onto it. Boyfriends come and go, she'll get back into it again.
Well, this boyfriend is now a husband, so probably not going anytime soon unless I put a cap in his ass. 😉
Actually, he's a responsible helicopter pilot flying fire crews, and buckets....so I guess I could do worse.
Maybe her car will be something the 2 of them could do together as time goes on. 🤔
I always wanted to do it with her, but sometimes you have to stand back and let them move on in life.
 
I did power tour last year and you’re right…. EVERYTHING had an LS in it. I was pretty tired of seeing 69 Chevelles with 6.0 truck motors by the time we got to Indianapolis.
I was at a gas station the other day and heard something good coming from a mile away. High school kid pulls in with a ratty 67 Chevelle, SBC, 4spd, a hot cam and some cheap "turbo" mufflers. Damn that thing sounded great. I'd almost forgotten what a SBC sounded like. As ubiquitous as the LS is, I imagine a 350 is still nearly free to maintain. Not sure why everything gets an LS swapped in.
 
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Yeah 2 strokes were dying out locally when I started (2007?) and all the competition started moving to the Briggs spec series. But man were those 4 strokes uninspiring to listen to. Even the faster ones looked slow going around the track just because of the lack of auditory drama.

💯 While I fully agree with you, the cool thing about running 4 cycles now is the level of competition on the track. Running a lower HP motor really separates the drivers that know how to push it and keep it at 100%, 100% of the time. Last race I was in, there was only 7 tenths from pole lap time to my 6th place on the grid. You lose an inch, the guy(or gal) on your bumper takes a foot. Ive been running the same chassis since 2006 or 7 and i'm anywhere from 0.7 - to 1.3 seconds off the front runners. Its WAY past time for a new one to get back in the pack.
 
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Off into unknown....i have never rebuilt one of these before. Webers both down and side draft, check. Real Holley of all kinds,check. Motorcraft and doG knows how many quadrajunks, but never anything with oil in it, or supposed to be in it. Rebuild kits range between I am coming to join you Elizabeth to you have got to be fucking kidding me.

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I did power tour last year and you’re right…. EVERYTHING had an LS in it. I was pretty tired of seeing 69 Chevelles with 6.0 truck motors by the time we got to Indianapolis.
We did last year's power tour in our 89 suburban with a 350 in it. I was asked several times why I didn't put an LS in it. The looks are priceless when you respond with Because even fags with mustangs put an LS in them.
 
We did last year's power tour in our 89 suburban with a 350 in it. I was asked several times why I didn't put an LS in it. The looks are priceless when you respond with Because even fags with mustangs put an LS in them.
Looking at a CJ7 first question was you gonna pull the 6 and put an LS in it. No I only no talent ass holes that can't fix anything go that route. If I was going to do a V8 I would do an AMC 360. I agree I hate the cookie cutter ls bullshit
 
Off into unknown....i have never rebuilt one of these before. Webers both down and side draft, check. Real Holley of all kinds,check. Motorcraft and doG knows how many quadrajunks, but never anything with oil in it, or supposed to be in it. Rebuild kits range between I am coming to join you Elizabeth to you have got to be fucking kidding me.

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Not all together familiar with the Stromberg carbs, but The SU side draft carbs from the 60's had oil in them to dampen the slides ... you could change oil weights and help regulate how fast they open close (small differences make a lot of difference)..... Wondering if the will in theses are for similar purpose?
 
If any one hasn't had the pleasantry of being in a kart racing community before.....This little documentary describes what it's all about very well. Family, community and damn good racing. I have never met someone at the track that wasn't willing to help me out or make me and my chassis faster. Everyone helps everyone. Really good times! ;)🤜



These are great fun! I ran Yamaha 2-st KT-100's for about 10 yrs and had a blast. Did well at the local level and tried at the national level for a few years. Also fun but tough to compete financially as at that time future Indy drivers were also racing and had HUGE support. Got away from it when I moved and built a home a few hrs from the nearest club track. Since then a very nice karting and full size race facility opened up about 1.5 hrs away. Watching the shifters really makes we want to get back into it.
 
Looking at a CJ7 first question was you gonna pull the 6 and put an LS in it. No I only no talent ass holes that can't fix anything go that route. If I was going to do a V8 I would do an AMC 360. I agree I hate the cookie cutter ls bullshit
I resemble that remark....LOL
Bought my 84 CJ7 with the LS and TH400 already swapped about 8 years ago. Got to admit, it's been absolutely bullet proof so far.

Guess I'll have to drop the 408 Windsor stroker back in my Mustang when I get to that point....nothing like a nasty carbureted small block with a 5 speed Tremec!!
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These are great fun! I ran Yamaha 2-st KT-100's for about 10 yrs and had a blast. Did well at the local level and tried at the national level for a few years. Also fun but tough to compete financially as at that time future Indy drivers were also racing and had HUGE support. Got away from it when I moved and built a home a few hrs from the nearest club track. Since then a very nice karting and full size race facility opened up about 1.5 hrs away. Watching the shifters really makes we want to get back into it.

Ran the same engine & have a similar story 🤜 I scored when I came back to the PNW. There's 2 tracks & two clubs, 45 min away. Briggs LO206 senior and heavy is awesome racing with 10+ people on the track with ya. I race maybe 2 - 4x a year. Tires are too damn pricy, as are the entrance fees. holy foxtrot....😵‍💫
 
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I resemble that remark....LOL
Bought my 84 CJ7 with the LS and TH400 already swapped about 8 years ago. Got to admit, it's been absolutely bullet proof so far.

Guess I'll have to drop the 408 Windsor stroker back in my Mustang when I get to that point....nothing like a nasty carbureted small block with a 5 speed Tremec!!View attachment 8648658
Bowtie on a jeep, bet you would go to a ministers funeral wearing feathers.