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Horus Ballistic Kestral
- Thread starter Alaskan Troll
- Start date
Re: Horus Ballistic Kestral
I just shot out to 1970 yards with one yesterday. I really like the package and would recommend it over conventional kits. Though I'm still trying to figure out the nuances of it to get the most from the Horus side of it. It takes a bit to configure, but once you learn its features, especially the QuickKeys, it's easy to use in the field.
Things I'm trying to figure out are:
1. How are atmospherics of the zeroing process considered when out in the field. Exbal handheld software compensated for that. I think it's taken care of during drop truing but not sure yet.
2. When entering multiple BC's the screen shows a value for distance and a value for BC. For the first set of values, do we enter 0 for distance and the initial BC ( e.g. for a 300 SMK), or do we enter the distance we expect the first BC threshold to occur at?
3. Further, since the BC settings are distance based, we need to use another ballistics program to convert from Sierras' published velocity based BC thresholds to the Horus distance based numbers. Of course threshold distances will change as the atmospherics change. Does the Horus software consider that in the calcs? After reading the manuals a little closer we know we can alter the BC's to match true flight - again that's for a specific set of atmospherics.
4. Also trying to get my head around how Wind Direction (WD), Wind low speed (WD1) and wind high speed (WD2) averaging work. What I'm not sure about is: when I use the quick key to set wind, I rotate the Kestral from the 9 oclock position through to the 3 oclock position to get the 5 second moving average. When I release the key it presents a wind direction - I'm not sure if that wind direction is simply the direction the kestral was facing when I released the button, or the actual netted location the wind is coming from.
The things I really like are:
- The reliability of the unit as a whole. I have friends who think a ballistics app on their cell phone is just fine, but a unit whose batteries die after one day sort of makes it useless.
- It takes into account gyroscopic momentum of the bullet in flight. This is really nice as it cleans up the roll off to the right we always see as distance increases.
For the kind of mountain shooting I do the perfect kit is a Vectronic Terrapin, the Horus/Kestral, and an ACI.
Jay
I just shot out to 1970 yards with one yesterday. I really like the package and would recommend it over conventional kits. Though I'm still trying to figure out the nuances of it to get the most from the Horus side of it. It takes a bit to configure, but once you learn its features, especially the QuickKeys, it's easy to use in the field.
Things I'm trying to figure out are:
1. How are atmospherics of the zeroing process considered when out in the field. Exbal handheld software compensated for that. I think it's taken care of during drop truing but not sure yet.
2. When entering multiple BC's the screen shows a value for distance and a value for BC. For the first set of values, do we enter 0 for distance and the initial BC ( e.g. for a 300 SMK), or do we enter the distance we expect the first BC threshold to occur at?
3. Further, since the BC settings are distance based, we need to use another ballistics program to convert from Sierras' published velocity based BC thresholds to the Horus distance based numbers. Of course threshold distances will change as the atmospherics change. Does the Horus software consider that in the calcs? After reading the manuals a little closer we know we can alter the BC's to match true flight - again that's for a specific set of atmospherics.
4. Also trying to get my head around how Wind Direction (WD), Wind low speed (WD1) and wind high speed (WD2) averaging work. What I'm not sure about is: when I use the quick key to set wind, I rotate the Kestral from the 9 oclock position through to the 3 oclock position to get the 5 second moving average. When I release the key it presents a wind direction - I'm not sure if that wind direction is simply the direction the kestral was facing when I released the button, or the actual netted location the wind is coming from.
The things I really like are:
- The reliability of the unit as a whole. I have friends who think a ballistics app on their cell phone is just fine, but a unit whose batteries die after one day sort of makes it useless.
- It takes into account gyroscopic momentum of the bullet in flight. This is really nice as it cleans up the roll off to the right we always see as distance increases.
For the kind of mountain shooting I do the perfect kit is a Vectronic Terrapin, the Horus/Kestral, and an ACI.
Jay
Re: Horus Ballistic Kestral
I have been able to get mine to agree within 0.1 mil with Shooter out to 1,000 yds. For hunting or other hard field use, I think it works out really well. In competitions I still seem to use Shooter. It has more features that I find helpful in that situation.
I have been able to get mine to agree within 0.1 mil with Shooter out to 1,000 yds. For hunting or other hard field use, I think it works out really well. In competitions I still seem to use Shooter. It has more features that I find helpful in that situation.
Re: Horus Ballistic Kestral
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: KPA</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I just shot out to 1970 yards with one yesterday. I really like the package and would recommend it over conventional kits. Though I'm still trying to figure out the nuances of it to get the most from the Horus side of it. It takes a bit to configure, but once you learn its features, especially the QuickKeys, it's easy to use in the field.
Things I'm trying to figure out are:
1. How are atmospherics of the zeroing process considered when out in the field. Exbal handheld software compensated for that. I think it's taken care of during drop truing but not sure yet.
2. When entering multiple BC's the screen shows a value for distance and a value for BC. For the first set of values, do we enter 0 for distance and the initial BC ( e.g. for a 300 SMK), or do we enter the distance we expect the first BC threshold to occur at?
3a. Further, since the BC settings are distance based, we need to use another ballistics program to convert from Sierras' published velocity based BC thresholds to the Horus distance based numbers.
3b.Of course threshold distances will change as the atmospherics change. Does the Horus software consider that in the calcs? After reading the manuals a little closer we know we can alter the BC's to match true flight - again that's for a specific set of atmospherics.
4. Also trying to get my head around how Wind Direction (WD), Wind low speed (WD1) and wind high speed (WD2) averaging work. What I'm not sure about is: when I use the quick key to set wind, I rotate the Kestral from the 9 oclock position through to the 3 oclock position to get the 5 second moving average. When I release the key it presents a wind direction - I'm not sure if that wind direction is simply the direction the kestral was facing when I released the button, or the actual netted location the wind is coming from.
The things I really like are:
- The reliability of the unit as a whole. I have friends who think a ballistics app on their cell phone is just fine, but a unit whose batteries die after one day sort of makes it useless.
- It takes into account gyroscopic momentum of the bullet in flight. This is really nice as it cleans up the roll off to the right we always see as distance increases.
For the kind of mountain shooting I do the perfect kit is a Vectronic Terrapin, the Horus/Kestral, and an ACI.
Jay
</div></div>
There is an earlier thread covering this same topic. IIRC it was about a month ago. Most of the questions you asked were covered by that thread. I believe there was an even earlier thread from when these were first announced also.
1. It doesn't take atmospherics into account for zero. It assumes your zero is your zero, which generally isn't a problem if you zero at 100, but obviously can cause problems with a longrange zero.
2. The way we do it is the first bc and distance is the average bc over the supersonic portion of flight. second bc and distance is 3/4 of the distance into transonic and any other numbers are at least 200 meters into the subsonic region. Always input at least 3 bc numbers.
Example for 118LR below
100M .475
1100m .475
1400m .455
1600m .435
3a. We use Bryan Litz's book for bc data.
3b. As of version 3.83 the program does not change the BC change over distances. Going to 300 ft ASL requires you to "retrue" this was tested by one the guys I work with when he traveled from Colorado to N. Carolina.
4. Sorry can't help you there.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: KPA</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I just shot out to 1970 yards with one yesterday. I really like the package and would recommend it over conventional kits. Though I'm still trying to figure out the nuances of it to get the most from the Horus side of it. It takes a bit to configure, but once you learn its features, especially the QuickKeys, it's easy to use in the field.
Things I'm trying to figure out are:
1. How are atmospherics of the zeroing process considered when out in the field. Exbal handheld software compensated for that. I think it's taken care of during drop truing but not sure yet.
2. When entering multiple BC's the screen shows a value for distance and a value for BC. For the first set of values, do we enter 0 for distance and the initial BC ( e.g. for a 300 SMK), or do we enter the distance we expect the first BC threshold to occur at?
3a. Further, since the BC settings are distance based, we need to use another ballistics program to convert from Sierras' published velocity based BC thresholds to the Horus distance based numbers.
3b.Of course threshold distances will change as the atmospherics change. Does the Horus software consider that in the calcs? After reading the manuals a little closer we know we can alter the BC's to match true flight - again that's for a specific set of atmospherics.
4. Also trying to get my head around how Wind Direction (WD), Wind low speed (WD1) and wind high speed (WD2) averaging work. What I'm not sure about is: when I use the quick key to set wind, I rotate the Kestral from the 9 oclock position through to the 3 oclock position to get the 5 second moving average. When I release the key it presents a wind direction - I'm not sure if that wind direction is simply the direction the kestral was facing when I released the button, or the actual netted location the wind is coming from.
The things I really like are:
- The reliability of the unit as a whole. I have friends who think a ballistics app on their cell phone is just fine, but a unit whose batteries die after one day sort of makes it useless.
- It takes into account gyroscopic momentum of the bullet in flight. This is really nice as it cleans up the roll off to the right we always see as distance increases.
For the kind of mountain shooting I do the perfect kit is a Vectronic Terrapin, the Horus/Kestral, and an ACI.
Jay
</div></div>
There is an earlier thread covering this same topic. IIRC it was about a month ago. Most of the questions you asked were covered by that thread. I believe there was an even earlier thread from when these were first announced also.
1. It doesn't take atmospherics into account for zero. It assumes your zero is your zero, which generally isn't a problem if you zero at 100, but obviously can cause problems with a longrange zero.
2. The way we do it is the first bc and distance is the average bc over the supersonic portion of flight. second bc and distance is 3/4 of the distance into transonic and any other numbers are at least 200 meters into the subsonic region. Always input at least 3 bc numbers.
Example for 118LR below
100M .475
1100m .475
1400m .455
1600m .435
3a. We use Bryan Litz's book for bc data.
3b. As of version 3.83 the program does not change the BC change over distances. Going to 300 ft ASL requires you to "retrue" this was tested by one the guys I work with when he traveled from Colorado to N. Carolina.
4. Sorry can't help you there.
Re: Horus Ballistic Kestral
When you're truing, you simply adjust the BC, until the Clicks agree with reality. It is not described very well in the manual, it took me some time to figure it out. So, if the Horus gives you a certain number of clicks at a certain distance and the hit is not there, you adjust the BC, until the value for Clicks is OK.
You can enter only one value for a certain temperature - either muzzle velocity or the BC. I took the first BC from Lapua data table :-D
I entered two muzzle velocities for 2 temperatures and so far the clicks are always spot on.
I think you will love it. I use in competitions and if you learn to work with it, it gives you solution very quickly.
When you're truing, you simply adjust the BC, until the Clicks agree with reality. It is not described very well in the manual, it took me some time to figure it out. So, if the Horus gives you a certain number of clicks at a certain distance and the hit is not there, you adjust the BC, until the value for Clicks is OK.
You can enter only one value for a certain temperature - either muzzle velocity or the BC. I took the first BC from Lapua data table :-D
I entered two muzzle velocities for 2 temperatures and so far the clicks are always spot on.
I think you will love it. I use in competitions and if you learn to work with it, it gives you solution very quickly.
Re: Horus Ballistic Kestral
I love mine. It works great. It's cool to watch your dope actually change on the screen as the environment conditions change. I used my Kestrel Horus Atrag for dope at a match in Oklahoma week before last and it was spot on at everything I shot at from 100 to 1054 yards.
I love mine. It works great. It's cool to watch your dope actually change on the screen as the environment conditions change. I used my Kestrel Horus Atrag for dope at a match in Oklahoma week before last and it was spot on at everything I shot at from 100 to 1054 yards.
Re: Horus Ballistic Kestral
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: MrHiggins</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Question? You only get the wind speed and direction at the muzzle correct? What good does this info do for you at 1000 yds down range? I am not a math person and can't understand how this works. </div></div>
Correct, it just gives you wind where the device is located. If there is zero wind where your sitting, and 80 mph winds halfway to your target, your going to be off.
However, no product currently in existence solves this problem - at least anything available in the civilian market.
You have to read the wind to try to understand if the wind where you are is the same all the way to your target and adjust. The main problem it does solve is if your wind is the same all XXX yards between you and the target, and letting you know exactly what that wind speed and direction are (without guessing).
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: MrHiggins</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Question? You only get the wind speed and direction at the muzzle correct? What good does this info do for you at 1000 yds down range? I am not a math person and can't understand how this works. </div></div>
Correct, it just gives you wind where the device is located. If there is zero wind where your sitting, and 80 mph winds halfway to your target, your going to be off.
However, no product currently in existence solves this problem - at least anything available in the civilian market.
You have to read the wind to try to understand if the wind where you are is the same all the way to your target and adjust. The main problem it does solve is if your wind is the same all XXX yards between you and the target, and letting you know exactly what that wind speed and direction are (without guessing).
Re: Horus Ballistic Kestral
Not trying to Hijack here but does anyone know if anyone has donea video demonstrating how to use the Horus Kestral from setup to aplication to retruing if need be? For us NOOBS!
Not trying to Hijack here but does anyone know if anyone has donea video demonstrating how to use the Horus Kestral from setup to aplication to retruing if need be? For us NOOBS!
Re: Horus Ballistic Kestral
Thanks I'll go search. I was just wondering if anyone had a particular one they would of recomended that they found particularly useful.
Thanks I'll go search. I was just wondering if anyone had a particular one they would of recomended that they found particularly useful.
Re: Horus Ballistic Kestral
Ok, Here's what I've learned:
Question 1: Answered - Thanks DodgeFan
Question 2: Answered - Again Thanks to DodgeFan, and confirmed by the two youtube Atrag training Video's. Interesting that we start the BC at 100M
but it makes sense since that's our ballistic zero point.
- Horus Vision ATrag Ballistic Software Part 1
- Horus Vision ATrag Ballistic Software Part 2
Question 3a: Answered - Thanks DodgeFan - I need to order that book. I did find an average BC for my 338 SMK using the acoustic method on a published USAF report. This is interesting that we only use an average BC to start, rather than the three BC's Sierra publishes - though I do like the idea of doing my own testing to validate BC's
One thing to note is for the 338 SMK the average BC was measured over a 600 Yard distance (according to the USAF report). Sierra's three published BC's are all still in the supersonic range. In my 338 Edge I don't go into transonic until about 1700yds, and subsonic until 2200yds. When I put it all together it seems to make sense to run the 'True Drop' adjustments at roughly the same three locations as Sierra's BC thresholds (within supersonic) followed by a transonic and subsonic adjustment (using MV for the first adjustment, BC's for the rest).
Question 3b: I'm at version 4.65 (opening screen), but when I go into the Horus side and look at the About screen it gives Version 2078, Config 9.50.5. There's no indicator in the software anywhere that 'True Drop' considers atmospherics. So at this point it may still be what DodgeFan's friend observed.
If I'm running 5 entries in the True Drop table (BC table) that starts to become high maintenance if my altitude changes much and I have to 'retrue' for difference atmospherics - not good - <span style="font-style: italic">I think this is worth a call to Horus to confirm</span>.
Question 4: Still working on that one.
One last source of good information is the Horus Atrag Manual on the Horus website
Well this gives me my todo list for the next couple of outings
Jay
Ok, Here's what I've learned:
Question 1: Answered - Thanks DodgeFan
Question 2: Answered - Again Thanks to DodgeFan, and confirmed by the two youtube Atrag training Video's. Interesting that we start the BC at 100M
but it makes sense since that's our ballistic zero point. - Horus Vision ATrag Ballistic Software Part 1
- Horus Vision ATrag Ballistic Software Part 2
Question 3a: Answered - Thanks DodgeFan - I need to order that book. I did find an average BC for my 338 SMK using the acoustic method on a published USAF report. This is interesting that we only use an average BC to start, rather than the three BC's Sierra publishes - though I do like the idea of doing my own testing to validate BC's
One thing to note is for the 338 SMK the average BC was measured over a 600 Yard distance (according to the USAF report). Sierra's three published BC's are all still in the supersonic range. In my 338 Edge I don't go into transonic until about 1700yds, and subsonic until 2200yds. When I put it all together it seems to make sense to run the 'True Drop' adjustments at roughly the same three locations as Sierra's BC thresholds (within supersonic) followed by a transonic and subsonic adjustment (using MV for the first adjustment, BC's for the rest).
Question 3b: I'm at version 4.65 (opening screen), but when I go into the Horus side and look at the About screen it gives Version 2078, Config 9.50.5. There's no indicator in the software anywhere that 'True Drop' considers atmospherics. So at this point it may still be what DodgeFan's friend observed.
If I'm running 5 entries in the True Drop table (BC table) that starts to become high maintenance if my altitude changes much and I have to 'retrue' for difference atmospherics - not good - <span style="font-style: italic">I think this is worth a call to Horus to confirm</span>.
Question 4: Still working on that one.
One last source of good information is the Horus Atrag Manual on the Horus website
Well this gives me my todo list for the next couple of outings
Jay
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