How accurate is your beam scale?

[SanPatHogger]

I didnt want to hijack the electronic scale thread that turned into a funny dumpster fire, so I'll light my own.
Guy said
"There are even guys out there who swear the RCBS beam scale is as good as any digital scale, and its certainly not."
So how accutare is my RCBS 505? I make sure my scale reads zero every time I set it up. I have check weights that I have checked the scale with and its dead on. I've weighed a charge, taken the pan off and then put it back on, reads zero again. I've weighed a charge, then changed the scale up 0.1 and down 0.1 to see where the needle sits and it's probably a 1/3 to a 1/2 way up and down the scale the needle points at. so that spread from zero to the 0.1 difference can be easily seen. When I trickle a large grain of IMR4831 I can see it move the scale more than when a small grain goes in.
I do not know what my velocity is or my ES and SD. I have a Caldwell chronograph but haven't used it since I came up with my best shooting load. And the chronograph wont work in the dark with a flashlight on it, I tried. And thats when I shoot the most is in the dark.
Here are a couple 3 shot groups at 1,000.

The 505 is slow but the batteries won't die and it seems to work pretty good.
So how would you measure the accuracy of this scale. I know it is accurate to my check weights. I know it is fairly consistant because I can re weigh the same charge and read zero every time.
At some point the accuracy and consistancy can't be seen until 2,000 yards? 3,000 yards?
I can see smaller than 0.1 on my scale, and I get as close to zero as I can. And I use a magnifying glass.
At what point do you need smaller than 0.1?

 

[ShtrRdy]

I got tired of my electronic scale drifting so I've gone back to a Redding beam scale.
I'm not a high volume rifle reloader though.

 

[PlinkIt]

After reading the other dumpster fire... I'm posting in case this gets funny...

In the mean time

Are there even any mechanical scales / balances out there of higher resolution / quality than our typical reloading scales?

 

[Mjnelson]

Old RCBS 10-10 scale might be the best beam scale I have come across. Mine stays well within a tenth keeping a nice pace, also not a high volume reloader.

 

[Makinchips208]

I didnt want to hijack the electronic scale thread that turned into a funny dumpster fire, so I'll light my own.
Guy said
"There are even guys out there who swear the RCBS beam scale is as good as any digital scale, and its certainly not."
So how accutare is my RCBS 505? I make sure my scale reads zero every time I set it up. I have check weights that I have checked the scale with and its dead on. I've weighed a charge, taken the pan off and then put it back on, reads zero again. I've weighed a charge, then changed the scale up 0.1 and down 0.1 to see where the needle sits and it's probably a 1/3 to a 1/2 way up and down the scale the needle points at. so that spread from zero to the 0.1 difference can be easily seen. When I trickle a large grain of IMR4831 I can see it move the scale more than when a small grain goes in.
I do not know what my velocity is or my ES and SD. I have a Caldwell chronograph but haven't used it since I came up with my best shooting load. And the chronograph wont work in the dark with a flashlight on it, I tried. And thats when I shoot the most is in the dark.
Here are a couple 3 shot groups at 1,000.


View attachment 7739034

View attachment 7739033

View attachment 7739035

View attachment 7739036

The 505 is slow but the batteries won't die and it seems to work pretty good.
So how would you measure the accuracy of this scale. I know it is accurate to my check weights. I know it is fairly consistant because I can re weigh the same charge and read zero every time.
At some point the accuracy and consistancy can't be seen until 2,000 yards? 3,000 yards?
I can see smaller than 0.1 on my scale, and I get as close to zero as I can. And I use a magnifying glass.
At what point do you need smaller than 0.1?


View attachment 7739047

I like that magnifying glass setup!

 

[alamo5000]

I've had about zero luck with numerous electronic scales. At present I use a beam scale from Redding.

I have some check weights to make sure nothing gets thrown off.

Depending on what and how you reload an electric scale will potentially help speed up the process (a lot), especially when using them with various powder throws.

With a good beam scale you can be really accurate but if you look at it from a different angle you might be off just a little.

That said in 98% of my applications those small variations simply don't matter so a beam scale is more than good enough.

The nature of this website though is kind of biased to certain types of shooting.

In those applications (ELR, etc) measuring to the kernel might be needed but loading 9mm or plinking ammo for an AR it is a waste of time trying to chase your tail like that.

For the most part in the majority of shooting sports getting charge weights down that low isn't applicable.

Even in disciplines where it does matter, there are other things that matter much more than that. How you deal with your brass matters a lot more than being two kernels too heavy.

 

[SmileMaker]

Ohaus 3100 Dial-O-Gram
Accurate to 0.15 grain
Negative is you have to convert grams to grains.

 

[PlinkIt]

View attachment 7739770
Ohaus 3100 Dial-O-Gram
Accurate to 0.15 grain
Negative is you have to convert grams to grains.

Most current production powder scales claim 0.1 grain accuracy though...

Other than buying a Prometheus I'm guessing there is no middle ground...

 

[Wizard1183]

I got tired of my electronic scale drifting so I've gone back to a Redding beam scale.
I'm not a high volume rifle reloader though.

Same here. Electronics will drift. Beam won’t. Might wear? But my digital is too inconsistent. Paid $50 for it. They sell for $100 now lol

 

[fxdrider]

Call me a beam guy as well. Have used several digital scales over the decades but the drift (despite all efforts at eliminating it) kept me from achieving consistency. My Ohaus-made Dillon Eliminator is boringly consistent - and that's a good thing!

 

[mtrmn]

View attachment 7739770
Ohaus 3100 Dial-O-Gram
Accurate to 0.15 grain
Negative is you have to convert grams to grains.

They used to make one calibrated in grains sold by RCBS. Can only find used ones now at a very premium price.

 

[Vodak]

I load on an RCBS 1010. I’ve noticed that mine is a little sticky, and does not always register trickling in powder reliably. If I’m doing chrono work and want the best precision I can manage I usually trickle in what I think is the correct addition to my thrown charge. Then press the beam down by hand, and let it swing back to its resting position. At least that way it’s going through the same motion with every measurement. It’s much slower than I would like, but I’ve been able to develop and repeat consistent loads this way.
I’m assuming it has to do with the relationship between the agates and pivot blade. But I don’t want to spend the additional $100 to have it tuned, or risk damaging it trying to tune it myself.

 

[Doom]

Here we go again! A good beam scale is an excellent device. A true balance beam using calibrated weights may be one of the most accurate measurement devices available. The balance beam scales most reloaders use is an accurate, repeatable device. Long term it can be subject to mechanical issues such as wear and corrosion. Most repeatability issues are due to user error, usually parallax. These scales should not be considered high accuracy. They do however tend to be precise, repeatable instruments which is what is required for consistent reloading.

I personally do not own one, as I use a Chargemaster and a Lyman electronic scale, both of which have calibration weights. But when I began reloading I weighted a 40 gr VMax on a 505 to use as a check weight (40.1gr). That bullet still resides at my weigh station and is often used to verify my scales during a reloading session since most loads are around 25gr and 43gr.

 

[alamo5000]

Here we go again! A good beam scale is an excellent device. A true balance beam using calibrated weights may be one of the most accurate measurement devices available. The balance beam scales most reloaders use is an accurate, repeatable device. Long term it can be subject to mechanical issues such as wear and corrosion. Most repeatability issues are due to user error, usually parallax. These scales should not be considered high accuracy. They do however tend to be precise, repeatable instruments which is what is required for consistent reloading.

I personally do not own one, as I use a Chargemaster and a Lyman electronic scale, both of which have calibration weights. But when I began reloading I weighted a 40 gr VMax on a 505 to use as a check weight (40.1gr). That bullet still resides at my weigh station and is often used to verify my scales during a reloading session since most loads are around 25gr and 43gr.

I agree with you pretty much.

For me some kind of insane analysis of pure 'accuracy' of a scale (IE measuring down to the 4th digit or whatever) is counter productive in the grand scheme of things.

In other words a good beam scale is plenty accurate.

Where the gains typically need to happen is how one gets the powder in the pan. You can scoop it, you can trickle it, you can use tweezers, or you can use some advanced way to drop powder. The big advantage to things like a Prometheus is that it can drop really accurately and trickle in very fine increments. On top of that it can do it quickly and repeatably. The 'scale' part of a system like that is just one part of the entire system.

In other words if your charge weights are .05 grains over/under for 99% of shooting sports there will be no appreciable difference in performance. But if you can get within a small percentage in variance and do it quickly and repeatably then you are on to something.

It all boils down to how you get the powder out of the jug and into the case. Simple concept but not so simple in practice.

 

[MarkyMark007]

you must have in mind only ES/SD. if this you cant get better with electronic scale, than money wasted.

but I assume that ordinary beam scale ~100$ is accurate like 500$+ electronic scale. after that, electronic win. but again, I can easily see the difference in one kernel of 0,02gr of heavy powder like Varget or N555; on N565 even more. so why have electronic scale at 700$+ to beat beam scale for 100$? to select kernels? so only for speed with autotrickler or new rcbs 1000$ scale.

and one thing you must have in mind: ES/SD in NOT entirely dependent of powder charge. maybe only 50% of it...?

I have RCBS M500 but I have problems with drifting; I assume that this is caused because of little play at pivots and little play at main weight. if those things were little tight, I wouldnt see any drifting at the end of my weighting session...

 

[MarkyMark007]

Then press the beam down by hand, and let it swing back to its resting position. At least that way it’s going through the same motion with every measurement.

this is only way if you want to measure precisely.

 

[MarkyMark007]

Are there even any mechanical scales / balances out there of higher resolution / quality than our typical reloading scales?

I dont think so. I had this Ohaus Dial-O-Gram, but it's not good for reloading, imho

 

[whatsupdoc]

Um yea, load 300 rounds using your beam scale, see ya in a few days. LOL

 

[Jrb572]

My beam scale doesn’t take forever to load 300 rounds. You just need the right beam scale