0933 really has a bad attitude...
It's a free country and you're entitled to your opinion.
But just to answer your questions, we have two probation officers assigned to our gang enforcement detail. They work in conjunction with our gang detail by doing probation checks of gang members who have been arrested for violent crimes. This is obviously because it the job of law enforcement to try to prevent crime before it occurs. If you think we should arrest a violent gang member, let him out and just cross our fingers that he will not victimize anyone ever again then you really have a strange view of life. Very often an officer or two will go with the probation officers if they are doing a check in a place that has had a high level of violent crime as backup. Not to mention that fact that if the probation officers locate something illegal during a probation compliance check, they do not have the powers of arrest. They can only violate probation. Therefore, when they do compliance checks on their own and find another gun, drugs, etc, they call for an officer to come make the arrest and report anyway. Also, since you seem to know the law so well, you know that the terms and conditions of everyone on Parol, PRCS, and most on probation are subject to search and seizure at any time. Therefore, if I know of a violent criminal and I decide I should check on him or his residence, I can do so without a warrant.
It is NOT the job of law enforcement to prevent a crime before it occurs. I don't know where you came up with that... or the notion that LE provides some blanket of protection over the citizens. I don't know if you're indoctrinated at the academy with this attitude, but it seems to be a pretty common attitude in the LE community. You swore an oath to 'uphold, protect, and defend' the U.S. Constitution, and the constitution of your state. The citizens pay you to protect there freedom and individual liberty... not to go home every night, not to prevent a crime before it happens, and certainly not to protect the individual citizens. America is supposed to be a free country, where personal responsibility is championed. If you're free to succeed, then you're free to fail, and the government is not responsible for the citizens well being or save them, form anybody, but especially themselves.
Yes, I'm familiar with felony probation and the conditions involved. It was something I dealt with during my probation for the class 1 misdemeanor (of threatening and intimidating). While it is 'legal', I don't agree with it, and certainly don't see how you can rationalize it.
The fourth Amendment to the United States Constitution was added along with the other 9 Amendments (the bill of rights) in 1791. This document is supposed to be the law of the land. It reads, " The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized." It does NOT say 'unless the terms of probation void that right', or 'unless a government entity deems it invalid', or any wording to the effect that this right is subject to being abridged in any instances what so ever! It very plainly says,
"The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated... Period! No doubt you'll come back with certain case law allowing you to act in such a manner... however, as I pointed out in a previous post just because an entity bestows itself with a certain title, does not make it so. SCOTUS claimed the title of 'supreme arbiter of the constitution' in 1802, and has since been wrong on numerous occasions. One of the biggest cases that it was blatantly wrong in was the Dred Scott v. Sanford case that sparked widespread, and public outrage. In the 1930's FDR put forth a bill known as the 'court-packing plan' expanding the number of justices sitting on the Supreme Court... this allowed him to usurp the Constitution through case law.
Judicial Procedures Reform Bill of 1937 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia The reputation and standing of SCOTUS as the supreme arbiter of the constitution is not exactly stellar, as it's been wrong and easily manipulated to back the policies of the administration in office at the time.
The wording of the fourth Amendment is very clear. Having read it, and sworn an oath to uphold it, I don't see how you can rationalize, '...I know of a violent criminal and I decide I should check on him or his residence, I can do so without a warrant.' Your actions run completely counter to the fourth Amendment. Don't even try and tell me that it's for the 'greater good', or your helping to prevent a crime, or even that it's necessary... William Pitt said, "Necessity is the plea for every infringement of human freedom. It is the argument of tyrants; it is the creed of slaves." Benjamin Franklin said, "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety." I will NOT give up my liberty to purchase a little temporary safety... and it is most certainly not necessary for the constitutional rights of the citizens to be taken in any way. The fact that you would so easily trample underfoot the fourth Amendment is very disturbing.
If a citizen is truly such a danger to the rest of society, then don't let him/her out prison in the first place. I know, you have no control over that, but it is absolutely un-acceptable to use the possibility of a crime being committed as reason to bargain away the un-alienable rights of the American citizens.
I'm really a little confused about that one. You're saying that if police are shot at and the guy runs off into the general public while still armed we are supposed to just turn around and leave? Not sure how many of our fellow citizens would agree with that. You ask if we have anything better to do? Would you rather me try to enforce jay walking instead of checking on a violent criminal?
I was pointing out the glaring double standard, which you seem to be ok with. Perhaps it doesn't even cross your mind... but how many other things are 'lawful' for you and other LEO's yet would land citizens like me in jail on charges?? The Declaration of Independence says, '...all men are created equal...' yet the LE community is given way to much leeway.
By all means, if a crime is committed... pursue the citizen, he/she is definitely responsible for there actions, good or bad. This has gone way to far in recent years though. "Rightful liberty is unobstructed action according to our will within limits drawn around us by the equal rights of others. I do not add 'within the limits of the law' because law is often but the tyrant's will, and always so when it violates the rights of the individual." Thomas Jefferson. Whether you like it or not, you are being used as the 'teeth' of the Government... a Government that is increasingly tyrannical, and oppressive.
Folks like you... I'm lumping you in with cop haters, plane and simple. That's what you're stating you are. You say you don't trust cops and have called cops thieves and murders and all kinds of stuff. At no point have I ever said all citizens are like you. I'm in no way against the citizens. I'm not even against you and your fellow cop haters, just have a discussion with you.
I'll definitely own up to that moniker... Yes, I have called LEO's multiple adjectives, all with negative connotations. I have a big issue with how LEO's go about business. I have numerous personal experiences with LEO's blatantly breaking the law and not being held accountable. I find it offensive that a government entity (the LE community) resists accountability to the people so vigorously.
I don't know you, I can't speak to your character. Since you're on this forum, I'm sure that we actually have a few things in common... and possibly could be great friends on a personal level. I could probably say the same thing about numerous men that work in law enforcement... However, I abhor the law enforcement profession.
I don't know if it's the training, I don't know if it's conscious... but the way the LE community interacts with the citizens makes it very clear that it's an 'us vs. them' engagement. Is it an impossibility that a citizen could be right, and a LEO wrong?? Why is it that when a citizen speaks up against a LEO, the wagons are circled and no LEO will condemn 'one of there own'?? As a whole, the LEO community is incapable of acting like men, standing on there own moral conviction. They use numbers to posture, they ensure that the disparity of force is always in there favor, there badges are like there colors... ensuring that they will ever be apart of the 'pack' and not have to stand alone. The closest entity that I can think of that exhibits the same behavior, is a gang. Here I am, standing on my own to feet and 'looking you all in the eye.' I'm challenging the SOP's, the 'rules', and the laws that allow the LE community to act with such little regard for the essential liberty of the citizens. I'm confronting you, and the other LEO's that posted, that such callous disregard for the people's freedom is un-fucking acceptable!! I get attacked for that stand... surprise, surprise.
They entire bloated, stagnant, broken system is failing... The fault lies squarely with the people. "If a nation expects to be ignorant and free, in a state of civilization, it expects what never was and never will be." Thomas Jefferson. This doesn't excuse the government for 'wasting the labors of the people under the pretense of taking care them'...
Again I could play your game. I once had a doctor that said my foot wasn't broken, then it turned out it was. Since the one doctor was wrong, I should not tell everyone that ever practicing medical doctor on the face of the earth is a lying asshole and don't ever trust any of them for any reason. I once delt with a firefighter who was a little grumpy late at night (probably because he woke up to come to our call on a cold rainy night, so I understand his attitude a little). I should now also tell everyone that all firefighters are cock suckers. There's no chance it was just that one guy. It's all of them. He was mean, so they're all mother fuckers. Sounds a bit juvenile right?
Doctors, Firefighters, and Marines (you made reference to Marines in an earlier post) are all human... as well as LEO's. As humans, there will be mistakes made, and sometimes actions are malicious or worse. The primary difference in my opinion is that the first three hold there own accountable. LEO's, not so much.
I'm human. I make mistakes... when I do, I own up to it, and I work to make it right. I didn't receive a single apology from ANY LEO after the gross misconduct against me. If it was all a mistake, then a sincere apology would go a long way. If the officers in question broke the law, then don't turn a blind eye... don't sidestep the issue and try and get away without admitting wrong doing. As I said before, admitting wrong doing, and holding your own accountable will go alot further toward regaining public trust than sweeping everything under the rug.
Again, I have proof of all the adjectives that I applied to LEO's... In three different departments, and in ALL three of those departments no wrong doing was ever admitted, no effort was made to hold those officers accountable, though the actions were ciminal. If they (the departments in question, and the other LEO's that have weighed in and don't see an issue) are ok with that connotation, then I just call it like I see it.
As to that video. Not sure what all the circumstances were. The clip that you showed does definitely open up some questions. I'm not saying I agree with what happened. I'm not going to condemn them either. It will be investigated and if it does bring up criminal charges and they go to jail then that's what happens. I'm not here to say anything a cop has ever done is perfect. The fact that you showed a video of cops in New Mexico again doesn't justify that every law enforcement officer is a piece of shit. For every video you find of a cop doing something wrong, or supposedly doing something wrong, I can find plenty more of officers doing their job professionally and doing what was right. We can play that game forever.
I'll be the first to say that I don't know all the circumstances leading up to that engagement.
There enough red flags that I definitely have no problem condemning the actions of those officers involved. I would like to point out that I didn't post the original video... or the video of those APD officers... I have better things to do than try and dig up videos showing LEO's in a bad light. No offense, but the LE community doesn't need any help in eroding what little public trust it still has.
You don't strike me as the kind of person that would be in a profession just for the praise you would earn... so perhaps you will understand this. A thousand attaboys don't make up for one OH SHIT! One OH SHIT will ruin reputations, will end careers, and will irretrievably break trust. The OH SHIT moments are getting all to common on the part of the LE community.
0933, I said fighting in a legal way. What I meant was, if you had all this abuse done to you for absolutely no reason and you have so much proof of it, why don't you sue them? People do it all the time. If the events unfolded the way you say then you can stand up for yourself, that's the beauty of this country.
'People do it all the time.' Do what all the time?? Sue? or Sue LE agencies?
There is no real consequences to LE, or any Government, misconduct. Any monetary award is paid for with a blank check footed by the taxpayers. I don't need money, I'm fit enough to work and provide for my family... the only thing suing would do is to tax an already hemorrhaging budget. What I want is my property back (the property stolen from me), and a detailed public admittance and apology for the wrong, and criminal actions, committed against me. Trying to get that in a civil court is close to impossible.
The backstabbing comment was about you trying to point the finger at law enforcement every chance you get. Not sure why you keep talking about killing everyone. Seems you may have a slight issue.
Yes, I definitely point the finger at LE. As a citizen, the police state that is being fostered is deeply disturbing to me... and you're damn right I will speak up any chance I get.
As for killing people, I don't 'keep talking about' it. I found your insult regarding my integrity (of stabbing one in the back) to be personally offensive. Honor, Courage, and Commitment are the Marine Corps core values... as you know from your time in the Marine Corps (I'm drawing a conclusion from some inferences you made). Never once have I given you reason to call into question my Courage, yet you brazenly suggest that I lack one of the values that I hold very dear.
