How do I use the Sling with Bipod?

[gunlove]

I am interested to hear your techniques on using a sling with the bipod.
How to you wrap and tension your sling for the best position lock down?

I recently learned how to use the sling with my M4. My prone unsupported is now more steady than shooting off sandbags!!!!!! I wrapped the Viking tactical sling around my body and back up under a vertical elbow. I want to transfer this to my 308 shooting. I currently have a TIS sling on the 308.

Are slings allowed in all tactical competitions?

I am interested in any tips and any redirections to good posts.

Thanks

 

[Greg Langelius *]

Re: How do I use the Sling with Bipod?

I don't wrap and tension the sling, that's for unsupported shooting, IMHO. I'm sure it works OK for other folks, but it's just not my way.

Wrapped and tensioned, the bipod serves as an aid to slung shooting. My way, the sling serves as an aid to bipod shooting.

I set up the rifle on the bipod with a sling attached for and aft, and slack so it is just off the supporting surface (what some might call a 'Parade Sling').

I get down behind the rifle, and pass the non-trigger hand through between the sling and rifle forearm; reaching back and grasping the rifle butt the same as I would with bipod but without sling. I then bear down on the sling with my elbow, applying the upper body's weight to hold the sling down. The sling is properly adjusted when the elbow just barely touches the supporting surface with the body weight applied.

The goal is to use the sling to aid the bipod technique by using body weight to counteract/eliminate bipod hop. Somehat awkward at first, it soon becomes a natural process.

Greg

 

[Rob01]

Re: How do I use the Sling with Bipod?

If you are using the bipod to shoot off of then there's no need to sling up but you can grab the rear of the sling and use it as an aid like a rear bag if your bag isn't there. Also a newer useful tool is the Tiger Valley Sling Bag. I got one off a prize table and like it.
http://www.shop.tigervalley.com/Tiger-Valley-Sling-Bag-TVSlingBag.htm

Slings are not only allowed but mostly madatory at matches for not just shooting but for carrying your rifle. The TIS sling is a good sling. I have a few quick cuff slings and they work very well. Just make sure to get it set up for your body and shooting position. You want it tight but not too tight. I like it when I basically have to grab the butt of the rifle and push it into my shoulder. You will also need to adjust it from position to position but usually going from sitting to kneeling it's pretty close for me. In prone I need to let it out some and in offhand I need to tighten it up some. Try it on your set up and see what works best for you.

If slinging up you can use the bipod pod loc as a hand stop. It's what I do with mine and I placed some padding on it to make it more comfortable. When attaching the quick cuff to the sling body clip, give the sling body a half outward turn so the sling lays flat against the back of your hand. You can do the same with the slip cuff style before sliding your arm through the cuff area.

This is a TAB sling and it does the same basic thing as the TIS slip cuff in holding the rifle steady at some tension to steady the shot without the use of the detachable cuff.

This is the quick cuff used in the kneeling position. You have to experiment with your set up to find what works best for you in any sling position.

 

[Trigger Monkey]

Re: How do I use the Sling with Bipod?

I agree with Rob on all of the above. It's one thing using the sling to aid in shooting an M4 or carbine in the prone but another thing entirely when using a bolt gun with bipod. Part of the reason is that slings designed for use with a carbine are different than those used on precision rifles, just nature of the beast. Also I've found that when I'm in a proper prone position, regardless of the caliber, the sling is pretty much irrelevant in aiding stability.

Now I do use the sling in certain situation such as when shooting from a tripod or a pair of shooting sticks to help make more stable. When using sticks, I get them as far forward as I can, put my arm through the loop of the sling, and then drop a bipod leg and squeeze with my support hand. Kinda like this...

 

[Sterling Shooter]

Re: How do I use the Sling with Bipod?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Trigger Monkey</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> Also I've found that when I'm in a proper prone position, regardless of the caliber, the sling is pretty much irrelevant in aiding stability.

Now I do use the sling in certain situation such as when shooting from a tripod or a pair of shooting sticks to help make more stable. When using sticks, I get them as far forward as I can, put my arm through the loop of the sling, and then drop a bipod leg and squeeze with my support hand. Kinda like this...

</div></div>

You might want to get the non firing hand off the tripod and between sling and hand guard. From under the sling take left hand over left side of sling and move it to the right through space between sling and hand guard. When sling is properly adjusted you can relax into the tension of the sling for good support, which you cannot get the way you are doing it now. The way you are doing it now there is no relaxing into the sling. It's the reason you don't feel more stability. Of course, if sticks, bipod, tripod, whatever is not useful without hand contact the sling will indeed be moot.

 

[doc76251]

Re: How do I use the Sling with Bipod?

What Rob01 said ^^^^^

One other tip, put your watch on your trigger hand (wrist) I have broken more watchbands / pins and caused my hand to go to sleep that way than I care to remember. Of course if I remembered to shift my watch I wouldn't have to remember that

Cheers,

Doc

 

[Trigger Monkey]

Re: How do I use the Sling with Bipod?

Sterling Shooter,

Dude I know how to sling up and maybe I missed the part where I said I wasn't stable...that position in the picture has actually been pretty stable for me and others in the past.

 

[Sterling Shooter]

Re: How do I use the Sling with Bipod?

It appears from the picture that indeed you do not know how to do it. Any one who does actually know how to use a sling can easily see you have not properly engaged the sling to benefit from its use. Perhaps its why you have expressed no benefit from it.

 

[Trigger Monkey]

Re: How do I use the Sling with Bipod?

Have you ever tried it? I know that me and others have gotten hits on steel when utilizing the sling in such a fashion which is what it really comes down to.

 

[Sterling Shooter]

Re: How do I use the Sling with Bipod?

What it really comes down to is sight alignment and trigger control. Everything else supports those two firing tasks. Artificial and bone support is just one element of a steady position. But, clearly, from your picture, you are not getting any benefit from the loop sling since it is not engaged to get benefit from it. So again, ya might just want to try what was suggested in my first post.

 

[Trigger Monkey]

Re: How do I use the Sling with Bipod?

I don't think you can really draw any conclusions about how much benefit I'm getting from the loop, especially if you've never tried it. In that position I have good sight alignment, trigger control, and recoil control so it works for me and others so I'm going to leave it at that.

Here are some other ways I've used a rifle sling.

I've also wrapped the sling around a tree and fence post for some added stability but I guess that was wrong too.

 

[Sterling Shooter]

Re: How do I use the Sling with Bipod?

The shooter you present in your last post is indeed using the loop sling correctly.

 

[Trigger Monkey]

Re: How do I use the Sling with Bipod?

I know he is because the shooter is me.

 

[kraigWY]

Re: How do I use the Sling with Bipod?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Trigger Monkey</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I agree with Rob on all of the above. It's one thing using the sling to aid in shooting an M4 or carbine in the prone but another thing entirely when using a bolt gun with bipod. Part of the reason is that slings designed for use with a carbine are different than those used on precision rifles, just nature of the beast. Also I've found that when I'm in a proper prone position, regardless of the caliber, the sling is pretty much irrelevant in aiding stability.

Now I do use the sling in certain situation such as when shooting from a tripod or a pair of shooting sticks to help make more stable. When using sticks, I get them as far forward as I can, put my arm through the loop of the sling, and then drop a bipod leg and squeeze with my support hand. Kinda like this...

Looks to me that method defeats the purpose of the sling. Looks like if forces one to use mussles I don't want to use.

But that's just me.

In my CMP GSM & HP clinics I always get new shooters who try your method, I can always tighten up their groups by using the sling propertly, meaning wrapping the hand in the sling and resting the forarm in the palm.

</div></div>

 

[Trigger Monkey]

Re: How do I use the Sling with Bipod?

This technique isn't anything new, I picked it up from a post by a former SOTIC instructor and it works, I'm not sure why there's so much disbelief. It might look like I'm using muscles I shouldn't be but I've found it to be comfortable and palsy free for longer. My left arm is relaxed and pushing sticks out, tensioning the sling against my arm, while my left hand is grasping the bipod leg and stick.

 

[JRWALLSIII]

Re: How do I use the Sling with Bipod?

I'll just add that one day I hope to be able to shoot positional as good as Trigger Monkey

 

[Goldbeachman]

Re: How do I use the Sling with Bipod?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Trigger Monkey</div><div class="ubbcode-body">This technique isn't anything new, I picked it up from a post by a former SOTIC instructor and it works, I'm not sure why there's so much disbelief.... </div></div>

I think it is because improvised field position shooting and shooting sticks/tripod shooting brings with it unique techniques that work best that square range fellows would immediately find to mirror improper form when shooting standard slung positions. And if one does not have significant experience in shooting from improvised field positions or with shooting sticks/tripods, its easy to think the standard slung supported keys to success will apply just the same. And some do and some don't. Those that know the difference have chimed in and those that don't have as well.

Trigger Monkey knows <span style="font-style: italic">exactly</span> what he is talking about.

 

[Sterling Shooter]

Re: How do I use the Sling with Bipod?

And, if one did not have a significant understanding of the fundementals he might think like you that the sling used in the first picture was actually a benefit.

 

[ajwcotton]

Re: How do I use the Sling with Bipod?

Sterling, just to be clear, are you saying the standard slung sitting or kneeling is more stable than the sone shown with the sticks?

 

[Goldbeachman]

Re: How do I use the Sling with Bipod?

Right. And, if one has lived their whole life as a hammer, its no surprise the whole world looks like a nail....

 

[kraigWY]

Re: How do I use the Sling with Bipod?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Sterling, just to be clear, are you saying the standard slung sitting or kneeling is more stable than the sone shown with the sticks?</div></div>

I'm not Sterling, but what I was indicating, and I believe Sterling was too, is that in the picture I quoted in my post isn't going to be much help, however in the other photos, showing the hand rapped in the sling and under and supporting the forearm would add to stability regardless whether you are using the sling unsupported, with sticks/bipod, or laying on sandbags/rucksack.

An example, I don't use bipods, but in prone with sandbags, I assume a good prone un-supported position, the to add support, (keeping a solid position and being lined up on the target) I rest the forearm on the sandbags or rucksack.

It works in setting and kneeling also where you lean your arm onto or next to a tree, baricade or what ever.

You're getting the best of both worlds.

I don't like bipods for personal reasons.

 

[Sterling Shooter]

Re: How do I use the Sling with Bipod?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Ajwcotton</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Sterling, just to be clear, are you saying the standard slung sitting or kneeling is more stable than the sone shown with the sticks?</div></div>

No, what I'm saying is the loop sling provides the most support when the shooter relaxes into its tension. You can't relax into it unless it's engaged to transfer muscular tension from the non firing hand.

Kraig and I see it exactly the same way. And I too do not like bipods for a multitude of reasons. The bipod is a distraction to good shooting for those just getting into shooting. It will deceive them into believing they know how to do something they don't know how to do. It thwarts marksmanship, that's to say, it undermines motor memory development. A shooter should be sure he understands how to build a solid position with bone alone before considering the bipod as an aid to good shooting. When used as a substitute for underdeveloped marksmanship it may help to get the job done but the shooter will not likely ever reach the highest plateaus of good shooting from such a sketchy foundation.

The problem for folks just getting into shooting is realizing its not about how stable the bipod makes the rifle seem to be before pulling the trigger but rather how unstable the bipod can become from the time the trigger is pulled until recoil has ceased. If the shooter has not preped to get consistent control over the rifle, which requires an understanding of position building, the bipod will not be the support it is thought to be. With a sling there is no illusion of support. The shooter must control the rifle properly before he can relax into it and he will be aware when it is not coming together. The bipod is kinda the opposite of the sling in that, rather than relaxing into it, it is driven or loaded with shooter tension. The most difficult thing is getting this tension consistent from shot to shot. Many folks can't and will therefore shoot better with sandbag support if they place the non firing hand on the hand guard which promotes consistent shot to shot control.

 

[gunlove]

Re: How do I use the Sling with Bipod?

Sterling, do you shoot your 12lbs. + tactical rigs with no bipod?
I have been messing around the house with the sling and bipod and haven't found anything comfortable yet.
My big problem on the bag or bipod, is the rifle hopping to the side way off target after every shot. I can even see it move .5 or so off target, when I dry fire. I know that it just BAD position.

 

[Sterling Shooter]

Re: How do I use the Sling with Bipod?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: gunlove</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Sterling, do you shoot your 12lbs. + tactical rigs with no bipod?
I have been messing around the house with the sling and bipod and haven't found anything comfortable yet.
My big problem on the bag or bipod, is the rifle hopping to the side way off target after every shot. I can even see it move .5 or so off target, when I dry fire. I know that it just BAD position.</div></div>

My 19lb. match rifle is shot in prone with sling and bone alone. I have no problem with 30 minute sessions on this gun in NRA LR competitions, even rebuilding the position from shot to shot as I prefer to do. At any rate, for a good start get with someone who has some credentials in the arena and ask for some observation.

Your immediate concern is that calling your shots when dry firing reveals movement. This is usually associated with something other than smooth trigger control

 

[sled_mack]

Re: How do I use the Sling with Bipod?

gunlove - focus on your position and being relaxed behind the gun in prone with bipod. You'll get rid of the hop with some practice. I went through what you are now, and if you stick with it, you'll get it. If you use the sling to correct it now, you won't get the basics fixed in your form. If you need it in a match before you get it perfected, fine. But don't give up working on the bipod hop.

Good Luck!

 

[kraigWY]

Re: How do I use the Sling with Bipod?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">do you shoot your 12lbs. + tactical rigs with no bipod?</div></div>

My White Oak Service Rifle weighs in at a tad over 13lbs after I added weight to the stock to balance it out.

If you can't get comfortable with your position, then get into a good position and watch TV over through the sights.

 

[taliv]

Re: How do I use the Sling with Bipod?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Trigger Monkey</div><div class="ubbcode-body">This technique isn't anything new, I picked it up from a post by a former SOTIC instructor and it works, I'm not sure why there's so much disbelief. It might look like I'm using muscles I shouldn't be but I've found it to be comfortable and palsy free for longer. My left arm is relaxed and pushing sticks out, tensioning the sling against my arm, while my left hand is grasping the bipod leg and stick. </div></div>

not to pick nits here, but how can your left arm be relaxed and pushing at the same time?
the weight of the rifle is what should tension the sling, but that won't happen with the shooting sticks holding it up.
"grasping" == using muscles
"pushing" == using muscles

The point of a sling is that when used properly you don't have to use any muscle in your arm to hold the rifle up. You can already accomplish that with the shooting sticks. Why use the sling at all in that position?

 

[Sterling Shooter]

Re: How do I use the Sling with Bipod?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: taliv</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Trigger Monkey</div><div class="ubbcode-body">This technique isn't anything new, I picked it up from a post by a former SOTIC instructor and it works, I'm not sure why there's so much disbelief. It might look like I'm using muscles I shouldn't be but I've found it to be comfortable and palsy free for longer. My left arm is relaxed and pushing sticks out, tensioning the sling against my arm, while my left hand is grasping the bipod leg and stick. </div></div>

not to pick nits here, but how can your left arm be relaxed and pushing at the same time?
the weight of the rifle is what should tension the sling, but that won't happen with the shooting sticks holding it up.
"grasping" == using muscles
"pushing" == using muscles

The point of a sling is that when used properly you don't have to use any muscle in your arm to hold the rifle up. You can already accomplish that with the shooting sticks. Why use the sling at all in that position?</div></div>

Your perspective is as astute as it is refreshing. It seems to me artificial support such as a bipod when coupled with a loop or hasty sling are in fact at odds. With bipod you drive or load (read muscle) and with sling you relax.

 

[memilanuk]

Re: How do I use the Sling with Bipod?

And there in lies one of the fundamental differences between formal 'position' shooting and practical/tactical shooting...

If you have the time to get everything right, I think the 'relaxed' position has its benefits. Being able to relax and 'endure' 20-30 minutes in a position is great - if you think you're going to need to spend that long in one spot. Can't recall the last tac match I've seen or shot in that gave 2 minute warning to get your gear on the line, then 3 minutes prep, or optionally 2 sighters either.

A lot of the field-type matches (at least around here) tend to force unorthodox positions under tight time constraints... at which point 'field expedient' positions like the one shown with the sling/bipod setup maybe more stable than other options. Maybe not much, but if it dampens the muzzle wobble some and allows the shooter to get rounds on target... I'm not going to tell him he's 'wrong' to do so.

 

[Mister Ouchie]

Re: How do I use the Sling with Bipod?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Sterling Shooter</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Your perspective is as astute as it is refreshing. It seems to me artificial support such as a bipod when coupled with a loop or hasty sling are in fact at odds. With bipod you drive or load (read muscle) and with sling you relax.</div></div>

Loading a bipod doesn't take muscle, it just takes proper positioning. If you're constantly pushing against it with muscle tension, you've got it wrong.

 

[kraigWY]

Re: How do I use the Sling with Bipod?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">If you have the time to get everything right, I think the 'relaxed' position has its benefits.</div></div>

I don't get where people get the ideal it takes that much time to get into a good slung position. I see that on here all the time.

It doesn't, just takes a pair of seconds if you have your rifle set up right.

Release the rear part of the sling from the sling itself, stick your arm through the loop, wrap you hand putting it under the forarm and put the buttstock to your shoulder.

It takes less time to do it then it took me to type it. It can be done as you're dropping in position. I have my hunting rifles set up for sling use. Never missed a shot because it took me to long to get in position.

Less time then it takes to extend the bipod and get it set up or "loaded" or get bags set up fore and aft.

Somebody needs to put on a course on how to use the military sling I guess.

 

[taliv]

Re: How do I use the Sling with Bipod?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: memilanuk</div><div class="ubbcode-body">And there in lies one of the fundamental differences between formal 'position' shooting and practical/tactical shooting...

If you have the time to get everything right, I think the 'relaxed' position has its benefits. Being able to relax and 'endure' 20-30 minutes in a position is great - if you think you're going to need to spend that long in one spot. Can't recall the last tac match I've seen or shot in that gave 2 minute warning to get your gear on the line, then 3 minutes prep, or optionally 2 sighters either.

A lot of the field-type matches (at least around here) tend to force unorthodox positions under tight time constraints... at which point 'field expedient' positions like the one shown with the sling/bipod setup maybe more stable than other options. Maybe not much, but if it dampens the muzzle wobble some and allows the shooter to get rounds on target... I'm not going to tell him he's 'wrong' to do so.</div></div>

to an extent, i agree. however, this year, I've slung in to hit targets at Rifles Only Bushnell Brawl, at the OK OPPS match, and at LA PRS match. At RO they do actually give you a little prep period for that stage. At the others, you just had to be ready to go. None of the stages lasted more than 60 seconds.

While there are better slings, I use the quick cuff for 2 reasons:
1. getting in and out of it is as quick as snapping a fastex buckle
2. the rear flush cup rusted into place and i can't seem to remove it even with hammers and pliers

 

[memilanuk]

Re: How do I use the Sling with Bipod?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: kraigWY</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
I don't get where people get the ideal it takes that much time to get into a good slung position. I see that on here all the time.

It doesn't, just takes a pair of seconds if you have your rifle set up right.</div></div>

Right... next time you shoot RF in a XTC match, start from standing *without* the sling on, and see if you only drop two seconds getting it on, cinched down, and your NPOA established. Good luck with that.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Release the rear part of the sling from the sling itself, stick your arm through the loop, wrap you hand putting it under the forarm and put the buttstock to your shoulder.

It takes less time to do it then it took me to type it. It can be done as you're dropping in position.
</div></div>

...yeah. Assuming said sling is already set up for the position you need it for *now*, or else you're giving up some of that stability and will most likely need to... oh my goodness... muscle it a bit to hold it right where you want it.


<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Less time then it takes to extend the bipod and get it set up or "loaded" or get bags set up fore and aft.</div></div>

Really? REALLY?!?! Okay, you take your scoped Any/Any or Match Rifle + sling, I'll take my scoped tac bolt gun and we both have a short time limit in which to get into prone position on an uneven firing point, dial the necessary windage/elevation for a long range shot, and take it. You really think you're going to get that done as fast or faster - with equal hit probability - as someone with a bipod and rear bag? I'm pretty sure that doing coarse corrections for non-flat firing positions is going to shoot (pardon the pun) your carefully established 'relaxed' position all to hell.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Somebody needs to put on a course on how to use the military sling I guess.</div></div>

I'm pretty aware of how to run a 1907, thank you very much.

 

[Sterling Shooter]

Re: How do I use the Sling with Bipod?

As long as the position serves the need, can be consistently and quickly applied, and works for the individual shooter by supporting the principles of marksmanship it is a good position. Typically, both bone and artificial support is desired. What artificial support is most useful is determined by situation and circumstance. Learning how to properly use all common artificial supports will assure success for whatever scenario presents itself.

Learning how to use the loop and hasty sling will help folks who are just getting into shooting get off to a good start since these devices are extensions of basic marksmanship. I like Kraig's idea of teaching sling usage as unless you are a formally trained shooter the sling is not the easiest thing to just pick up and use properly. In fact, even when used correctly it may initially feel so unnatural that the shooter wonders about it unless persuaded by an accomplished mentor/coach.

One more thing, I noticed that Kraig earned the Distinguished Rifleman Award back when the M14 was our Service Rifle. Making "Distinguished" points with an M14 is quite an accomplishment. It takes a whole lot of knowledge and skill to get there. It makes me inclined to trust in what Kraig has to say. I know I can learn from Kraig. He has credibility. What I don't understand is why any here with less apparent shooting expertise would challenge Kraig in such a derogatory manner as had the last poster, makes me want to say REALLY!

 

[kraigWY]

Re: How do I use the Sling with Bipod?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> next time you shoot RF in a XTC match, start from standing *without* the sling on, and see if you only drop two seconds getting it on, cinched down, and your NPOA established. Good luck with that</div></div>

Bad example, Setting Rapid is my best position, I normally shoot that between 35 - 45 seconds, that's with checking the scope after the first two rounds and making any needed adjustments.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> take your scoped Any/Any or Match Rifle + sling </div></div>

Not likely, my Any/Any Rifle is strickly a prone rifle with a single point sling.

But I will take my Wife's 243 that I would use in tactical match. It's a med. weight barrel in a Wood stock. Works dern good, doesn't change impact when it gets hot. Shoots a heck of a lot better then I do.

I use the same sling set up on my Model 70 Featherweights for hunting. As I said, never missed a shot because I was too slow using the sling.

I know, I know, its not "tacticool", wood stock and all, but I'm old fashion. I also use a revolver in "tactical" type pistol matches.

Anyway, the question I thought we were discussing was when using the sling and bipod, do we wrap our non shooting hand in the sling or not, I contend we do or it defeats the purpose of the sling.

As I said, I just don't like Bipods, one dern near got me killed one time and I refuse to use one whether it hurts my shooting or not.

I'll just make do with my wood stock Winchesters and 1907 Style slings.

Besides I'm kind of partial to the builder of my target Winchesters.

 

[memilanuk]

Re: How do I use the Sling with Bipod?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Anyway, the question I thought we were discussing was when using the sling and bipod, do we wrap our non shooting hand in the sling or not</div></div>

Yeah, probably best to get back on topic.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I contend we do or it defeats the purpose of the sling.</div></div>

My view on the matter is that there may be some 'non-traditional' uses that work fine for people out there. Usually the trick is whether a given technique can be applied consistently and in a repeatable fashion. If it does, more power to them. I'm a firm believer of the (paraphrased) saying "If it looks stupid but it works... use it anyway."

I have no problem with differing opinions on the matter... everybody has their own experiences that they draw from. Certain parties in this thread (not you) can't seem to express said opinions without talking down to folks, which gets me a bit riled up. Sorry you got caught in the crossfire.

Monte

 

[DroidSniper]

Re: How do I use the Sling with Bipod?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Greg Langelius *</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I don't wrap and tension the sling, that's for unsupported shooting, IMHO. I'm sure it works OK for other folks, but it's just not my way.

Wrapped and tensioned, the bipod serves as an aid to slung shooting. My way, the sling serves as an aid to bipod shooting.

I set up the rifle on the bipod with a sling attached for and aft, and slack so it is just off the supporting surface (what some might call a 'Parade Sling').

I get down behind the rifle, and pass the non-trigger hand through between the sling and rifle forearm; reaching back and grasping the rifle butt the same as I would with bipod but without sling. I then bear down on the sling with my elbow, applying the upper body's weight to hold the sling down. The sling is properly adjusted when the elbow just barely touches the supporting surface with the body weight applied.

The goal is to use the sling to aid the bipod technique by using body weight to counteract/eliminate bipod hop. Somehat awkward at first, it soon becomes a natural process.

Greg </div></div>

I use a TIS quick cuff to do the same sort of thing with great results. Cant recommend that sling enough.

 

[DroidSniper]

Re: How do I use the Sling with Bipod?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: kraigWY</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> next time you shoot RF in a XTC match, start from standing *without* the sling on, and see if you only drop two seconds getting it on, cinched down, and your NPOA established. Good luck with that</div></div>

Bad example, Setting Rapid is my best position, I normally shoot that between 35 - 45 seconds, that's with checking the scope after the first two rounds and making any needed adjustments.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> take your scoped Any/Any or Match Rifle + sling </div></div>

Not likely, my Any/Any Rifle is strickly a prone rifle with a single point sling.

But I will take my Wife's 243 that I would use in tactical match. It's a med. weight barrel in a Wood stock. Works dern good, doesn't change impact when it gets hot. Shoots a heck of a lot better then I do.

I use the same sling set up on my Model 70 Featherweights for hunting. As I said, never missed a shot because I was too slow using the sling.

I know, I know, its not "tacticool", wood stock and all, but I'm old fashion. I also use a revolver in "tactical" type pistol matches.

Anyway, the question I thought we were discussing was when using the sling and bipod, do we wrap our non shooting hand in the sling or not, I contend we do or it defeats the purpose of the sling.

As I said, I just don't like Bipods, one dern near got me killed one time and I refuse to use one whether it hurts my shooting or not.

I'll just make do with my wood stock Winchesters and 1907 Style slings.

Besides I'm kind of partial to the builder of my target Winchesters.
</div></div>
Love those old leather slings. I put one on my .308 build.

 

[Sterling Shooter]

Re: How do I use the Sling with Bipod?

Turner makes a leather sling called a National Match, which is essentially the 1907 model. I use the 54 inch length which is satisfactory for my AR based Service Rifle. The one on my rifle right now has been on that rifle for about 10 years. I've had to replace keepers a few times but the sling itself is still holding my position when properly adjusted. Perhaps the best 40 dollars I've ever spent.

 

[SFSGM]

I've also wrapped the sling around a tree and fence post for some added stability but I guess that was wrong too.[/QUOTE] he said...


Hmm...that's artificial support. I have an idea, why not look up NRA Rule 3.3 "Slings" to get a very basic description. the rule in the International Fullbore rifle Rules is the same, 3.3.
There are a couple of basic uses for rifle slings (1) to carry a rifle , and or (2) to facilitate a prone, sitting, or kneeling position conducive to competition.
Assuming we're talking about "hitting the target better" why not use the sling to some real advantage. A service rifle sling is attached at both ends, has a 1/4 turn and the loop fits above your bicep. the 1/4 turn allows the sling to wrap from the sling swivel, around the back of your hand "comfortably" and run directly to your arm. the Gunny is right, trigger control, breathing, sight picture, and sight alignment follow this.
One step i add is NPA, Natural Point of Aim. As soon as you assume your position check your NPA. if it is not right make adjustments. if it is too low or too high, don't use breathing to fiz this. Use the placement of the butt in your shoulder or the position of the hand stop. if it is left or right of your target, use the non-firing elbow to pivot on and shift your hips (will move your whole body) in the right direction.

I like to use my 3 minute prep and some of the 2 minute sighter period to refine my NPA. if you totally relax and the only two muscles in your body moving are your brain and your trigger finger, you will be pointed at your NPA. (which may be way off the target)

In my opinion, and i have seen this happen over my career, improper use of a sling is worse than not using one at all.

Shoot safely, brother

 

[M40_A1]

Because in a tactical scenario.....

the ground is always flat.
the target is always within five degrees of elevation.
the target will always appear straight in front of your firing position.
you always want your rifle physically attached to your body.
you will always have an uninjured hand to detatch your rifle from your arm in zero seconds.
you have plenty of time to adjust your sling.
you have plenty of time to get in position.
you always know when and where an engagement will take place.
etc., etc.

I shoot position with a sling, but much more often than not it would be completely impractical in a combat environment to shoot that way. One learns the fundamentals from shooting positions over the square course, fundamentals like trigger control and follow through that carry over to practical shooting in combat. But, I would never expect a Marine to "sling up" in a loop sling in combat, or assume a perfect position each and every time. That would be impractical and unrealistic, and could end up getting Marines killed. We always apply the fundamentals the best we can in any given situation, but you have to be willing, ready, and able to modify positions on the battlefield. Loop slings are not conducive to that when time is short or you need both hands free NOW.

Two different schools of thought for two completely different applications.