How do YOU prefer to read the wind?

[hrfunk]

For most of my competitive shooting career, I estimated wind speed and direction by what I'll call "traditional means." Depending upon the venue, I would observe the wind's effects on trees, grass, weeds, and range flags to make my wind call. Last year, I bought a Kestrel wind meter in an effort to simplify my life. What I find now is that I use the kestrel to determine wind speed at my firing point, but still make the same observations as before to determine wind direction and speed down range. I was just wondering how some of you might go about making your own call.

HRF

 

[Sharpsman]

65 years of non kestrel use!

OBSERVATION...of all the things you mentioned!

The folks that got your $$$$ for that Kestrel...are HAPPY HAPPY HAPPY!!

 

[onethousandmeters]

65 years of non kestrel use!

OBSERVATION...of all the things you mentioned!

The folks that got your $$$$ for that Kestrel...are HAPPY HAPPY HAPPY!!

"Happy Happy Happy".... Now THAT'S Funny! I too read like the OP stated - there may come a time in the not-so-distant future where these methods are the ONLY ones we have.

 

[hrfunk]

The thing I DO like about the Kestrel is I get an accurate wind reading where I am. This makes it a little easier to estimate the differences down range.

HRF

 

[thrusty]

Been shooting for 20 years...I just purchased a used Kestrel and am interested in trying it out...mainly for altitude, DA, temp and humidity really. So, I'm more happy, happy, happy that I got it for a great price...

Anyway, I have always shot by observation of the wind - typically in three locations: at my firing point, half-way and at the target. I average all three....but that's just me. It seems to work as long as I have some sort of mirage, foliage, trees, flag or something to observe the wind with.

 

[hrfunk]

Anyway, I have always shot by observation of the wind - typically in three locations: at my firing point, half-way and at the target. I average all three....but that's just me. It seems to work as long as I have some sort of mirage, foliage, trees, flag or something to observe the wind with.

That is interesting. I've always been taught to "shoot through" the near wind and adjust for the far wind because the bullet will be moving slower when it gets there, and that wind will have more time to influence its course.

There was a rather baffling conundrum a couple weeks back at Camp Perry during the vintage sniper rifle match. At the 600 yard firing line (at least the midway point of the line where I was), the wind was coming consistently from our 6 o'clock at about 3-5 MPH. Around mid-range (ie 300 yards), there was a full-value right to left wind that looked to be gusting from about 5-8 MPH. The flags at the targets were even more helpful. The one on the little end was showing no wind (of course), and the one on the big end was showing a half-value left to right wind of about 5 MPH.

While I was keeping score, I could see the bullet trace of the shooters on the line through my spotting scope. From the muzzle to 300 yards the bullets were flying straight and true. Then you could actually see them "catch" that mid-range right to left gust. From that point on to the target they were trending wide left.

This observation has had me thinking about wind calls for the past two weeks.

HRF

 

[thrusty]

Interestingly enough, we have been having a wind debate at our range for some time. Whether the wind affects the bullet more on the first half of the shot or the second half.

I've always considered the wind at the first half (closest to the gun) to affect your bullet more as it puts it off course sooner and allows the bullet to continue off course...This is also illustrated in "The Wind Book for Rifle Shooters".
However, lately, we've had some debate that the distant wind has more impact....mainly because the bullet has slowed down and is more susceptible to wind.

In other words....If you're shooting in a vacuum out to 1000yrds, where does the wind cause the most deflection? 0-500yrds or 500-1000yrds?

I'd love other's input on this...hell, I should have started a thread on it...

Another one for Myth Busters....!

 

[EXTREMEPREJUDICE]

Pretty much like you've called it. I like how Frank summed it up on his "Day One" training video "science at the firing line, art down range." The old adage "nothing beats experience" couldn't be more appropriate when making wind calls. The Kestrel provides quite a bit of atmospheric/wind data but only where it resides. In the end it's only a tool and part of my overall strategy.

 

[kraigWY]

I coached the Alaska National Guard rifle team a lot of years, meaning, as a coach I spent a lot more time behind a spotting scope then I did the gun.

I found it best to use the conditions at mid range. I like mirage best, but trees, grass, etc. are a good indication. Flags are nice but you don't always have them.

Wind meters are good for someone learning wind. Walk around with one in your pocket, then from where you are, watch the trees, watch the leaves, watch the grass, make an estimate, then pull the wind meter out of your pocket and use it to confirm or correct your estimations.

Later when you get to the range you can see the trees, leaves, grass at mid range and apply what you've learned.

You don't have to go to the range to practice wind reading.

 

[Rhyno]

I have really no experience reading wind, but Brian Litz talked about it in applied ballistics for a little bit, and it was interesting what he had to say.

 

[John Crusher]

For me, mid-range to target (out to 600) is where the greatest deviation occurs as the BC of the bullet comes into play as well as spin drift and rapidly dropping velocity. I use a Kestral at the line and have done so for 3 years and find that my old ways of wind doping were actually pretty darn close. It is just an aid, not the answer.

 

[Sharpsman]

That is interesting. I've always been taught to "shoot through" the near wind and adjust for the far wind because the bullet will be moving slower when it gets there, and that wind will have more time to influence its course.

There was a rather baffling conundrum a couple weeks back at Camp Perry during the vintage sniper rifle match. At the 600 yard firing line (at least the midway point of the line where I was), the wind was coming consistently from our 6 o'clock at about 3-5 MPH. Around mid-range (ie 300 yards), there was a full-value right to left wind that looked to be gusting from about 5-8 MPH. The flags at the targets were even more helpful. The one on the little end was showing no wind (of course), and the one on the big end was showing a half-value left to right wind of about 5 MPH.

While I was keeping score, I could see the bullet trace of the shooters on the line through my spotting scope. From the muzzle to 300 yards the bullets were flying straight and true. Then you could actually see them "catch" that mid-range right to left gust. From that point on to the target they were trending wide left.

This observation has had me thinking about wind calls for the past two weeks.

HRF

"I've always been taught to "shoot through" the near wind and adjust for the far wind because the bullet will be moving slower when it gets there, and that wind will have more time to influence its course."

Pardon me....but that is totally 'bassackwards'!! The more the bullet is moved off course in the first half of the distance being fired the farther the bullet will be off course at the target. It's strictly a matter of math concerning just how far the POI will be off in relation to the target center! The wind conditions in the first half of the distance fired is the major wind that has to be computed. If shooting 1000 yards the common procedure is to focus the spotting scope somewhere near the 500 yard line and use the mirage (if visible) at that distance to guage what you put on the rifle!

 

[hrfunk]

"I've always been taught to "shoot through" the near wind and adjust for the far wind because the bullet will be moving slower when it gets there, and that wind will have more time to influence its course."

If shooting 1000 yards the common procedure is to focus the spotting scope somewhere near the 500 yard line and use the mirage (if visible) at that distance to guage what you put on the rifle!

By adjusting for the wind at "somewhere near the 500 yard line," aren't you, in fact, shooting through the near wind (0 - 500 yards), and adjusting for the far wind (500+ yards) ?

HRF

 

[wilecoyote]

hrfunk,
I admit some problem readin'English,
...go figure the Wind !

 

[hrfunk]

This thread has been languishing for a couple of days, so I thought I'd run it back up to the top to see if anyone else has any thoughts on reading the wind they would like to share.

HRF

 

[Sharpsman]

By adjusting for the wind at "somewhere near the 500 yard line," aren't you, in fact, shooting through the near wind (0 - 500 yards), and adjusting for the far wind (500+ yards) ?

HRF

Call it what you want but the correct procedure is to focus the spotting scope near the 500 yard line and attempt to read the mirage at THAT POINT! Critical observation THERE and between the firing line AND THE MIRAGE at 500 give a shooter a good indication of what's needed on the sight! This is taking into consideration the terrain structure of the range/area in that there would be no intervening obstructions causing 'off the wall' conditions.

 

[pinsandpitons]

These types of questions are cool. However, I think they are very easy to oversimplify, and that leads to some of the dogma, and opinion. With that out of the way, here are some key points I'd love to here smarter folks than I hash out.

1) Bullet is moving faster near ranges, but a small deflection here will continue to amplify downrange
2) Bullet moves slower at far ranges, a pretty typical .308 load will move 20" lateral in the first 500yds, then 40" more in the last 200yds
3) easy to confuse cause and correlation in #1 and #2
4) probably the hardest to tease out... spacial variability in the wind speed/direction between rifle and target
5) define "most" or "more" as it relates to bullet trajectory effects

In response to the OP, I'm no wind reader, but I find mirage works best for me (for what that's worth). I can drop the wind angle totally and concentrate on drift. If I read flags or grass or witches on their brooms I have to factor in angle to my LOS. With mirage I can "see" what my bullet will see. (5-7mph R>L even though it's 3mph over my left shoulder, then 10mph from 5 o'clock at 300 yds, then 4mph at 3 o'clock to the target.

 

[hrfunk]

I think you're right. The wind is anything but constant, so it's unlikely that a single hard rule can account for all conditions. A strong full-value wind close to the shooter will certainly have a greater effect than a light half-value wind at the midway point. Someone above mentioned estimating the close, mid-range, and distant wind and averaging those three. That seems sound. Still, we might be looking at art as much as science when it comes to this topic.

HRF

 

[kraigWY]

Looks like we all have our opinions. Some based on experience, some based on "math & physics, some based on what we read on the internet, and yes, a lot based on what someone who we're trying to impress (by agreeing with them right or wrong) tells us.

But who has the most experience, I listen to them, and what they teach. Who wins a huge majority of competitions, who wins just about ever "sniper competition they compete in. Who's been doing it longer then any of us.

That would be the Army Marksmanship Unit. They teach reading wind at mid range. Kind of hard to argue with success.

A wind meter tells you wind speed at your location. You must determine the wind value down range. This is best accomplished viewing mirage.

Mirage reading can only be accomplished by practice.

We can argue with the AMU all we want, but we can't beat them at the range.

 

[Delta4-3]

Looks like we all have our opinions. Some based on experience, some based on "math & physics, some based on what we read on the internet, and yes, a lot based on what someone who we're trying to impress (by agreeing with them right or wrong) tells us.

But who has the most experience, I listen to them, and what they teach. Who wins a huge majority of competitions, who wins just about ever "sniper competition they compete in. Who's been doing it longer then any of us.

That would be the Army Marksmanship Unit. They teach reading wind at mid range. Kind of hard to argue with success.

A wind meter tells you wind speed at your location. You must determine the wind value down range. This is best accomplished viewing mirage.

Mirage reading can only be accomplished by practice.

We can argue with the AMU all we want, but we can't beat them at the range.

AMU doenst just read mid-range wind though. If wind is fairly constant across the engagement range they will, but they will take into account 6 and 12 wind readings as well if that is not the case.

I personally see it like everything else: if you think there is only one way to do something, you will probably not be successful the majority of the time. If you can't improvise, adapt, and overcome, your going to have mission failure in any dynamic environment.

As far as method goes, same deal as GPS. It is great to make a mission go smoother, but leaving a map and compass back in the rear in leu of such a device is setting yourself up for failure. Have high situational awareness, use technology to your advantage, but never let it replace or dull your "batteryless" skills.

 

[babaganoush]

But who has the most experience, I listen to them, and what they teach. Who wins a huge majority of competitions, who wins just about ever "sniper competition they compete in. Who's been doing it longer then any of us.

That would be the Army Marksmanship Unit. They teach reading wind at mid range. Kind of hard to argue with success.

In virtually every endeavor, if you wish to succeed, watch those who are successful, and do what they do.

Perhaps a little oversimplified, but the point is there.

Good stuff on the thread, folks.

 

[Delta4-3]

The best was in Baghdad in 07 when they took the stars that symbolized Saddam's regime off the national flag. Everybody in the city flew the old flag in protest. You had a perfect wind gauge every two feet all the way across the city. If only they new!

 

[hrfunk]

Now that's funny!

HRF

 

[Blue Streak]

All the above is good stuff,....love the wind flags in Baghdad.

The mirage seems to work best for me. Not that I discount the wind, but when looking at a target through my scope and I see a mirage running 4 o'clock to 9 o'clock,...hold low right and send it.