Rifle Scopes How does a 15yo US Optics SN3 stack up today?

[slm9s]

Any opinions? Found a great deal on a SN3 3.8-22x58 illuminated moa/moa (which I don't mind) 35mm tube EREK ERGO in great shape. I don't compete, but enjoy LR shooting and do it often. Can you guys compare this scope to some more current scopes and let me know how it measures up? Anyone have an idea of current market value? The guy also had a 6-30 but wanted quite a bit more for it.

Thanks.

 

[GIXXER2000]

How much adjustment is there in the turrets??

 

[AIAW]

I like mine. It’s an absolute tank. Not the highest resolution optics in it’s day, much less today but not terrible given it’s ruggedness. I believe it’s 90 MOA erector travel on these.

No clue what the used market price is on them right now though.

 

[Pharmer909]

You should pass. Big improvements in scope optic resolution& contrast when compared to 2004. I bet a high end Chinese scope made in 2019 has better glass.

 

[slm9s]

I'm surprised you'd recommend a chinese scope over a USO. Optic quality should still be good, maybe great, and I would think it should be superior in regard to build quality, customer service, etc. Just my opinion.

 

[AIAW]

How much are they asking for it? This is a tough thread to really comment on without knowing if it's $50 or $3000.

 

[bachelorjack]

I suggest you also get a stack of phone books ready to beat it against. Chances are good some speck of dust will appear inside and thats what USO will tell you to do to fix it. Beat it repeatedly against phone books...

You could not give me a US Optic scope in the AM and not expect it listed for sale before lunch.

Yes. I have owned two. What a shit show that was

 

[264win]

^^^ I had this experience 12 years ago.
And if that isn’t enough they made or make mil, Moa, iphy reticles (more than 50 @ the time) and turrets. And no one including uso can tell you for sure what you have if you buy it used

 

[bachelorjack]

^^^ Unless they cant tell you at all and instruct you to figure it out. They don't have records for all scopes and serial numbers. Man—not sure how I forgot that part...

 

[Rob01]

How much are they asking for it? This is a tough thread to really comment on without knowing if it's $50 or $3000.

Asked the same thing in his post at AR15 and waiting for an answer as that is really an important question.

 

[slm9s]

I don't wanna say an exact dollar amount in case I don't like it and want to sell it. That's why I just asked how it stacks up performance-wise to newer scopes. Trust me that it was a no brainer to buy.

 

[Rob01]

Then why did you ask?

 

[Pharmer909]

Buy it and let us know how it compares

 

[slm9s]

To see what the opinion was of people "in the know" how this stacks up performance wise vs newer scopes from Kahles/NF/Razor/etc.
I'm no gear expert, but I enjoy using nice equipment that my budget allows. I'd always wanted a SN3/PMII since when I shot PRS (small local) events back in 2005. I also enjoy discussing optics and reading others' opinions on equipment I don't have much experience with.
Thanks.

 

[Strykervet]

Well, some on here gave you some good advice, others don't know what the fuck they're talking about.

USO makes a solid scope. Can you do better today? Yes. Wanna spend the money?

Okay, so now that that is settled, you can get good deals on the ER25's (one was $1650 recently WITH H58 reticle) and LR17's with a GAP reticle for a little less. Lots of elevation comparably and they are built like tanks. A bit on the heavy side. Glass is supposed to be Shcott glass and it's always looked good to me so I don't know what dude is bitching about. They've always ranked sorta high there.

Don't know if SN3 was a budget scope or not though, worth looking into.

I don't know, fuck, you sure as hell could do a LOT worse in the PX when it comes to buying a used scope. They have their ups and downs, biggest downs being people rating 'em that have never even seen one, fact they are heavy and sorta long, archaic erector but it does allow for the EREK knob, but no critical downs to speak of.

I use 3 of 'em plus a spotter and I like 'em. Seriously doubt I'll see myself selling one either, though I may swap one out with a Hensoldt down the line and relegate the 3.2-17x to another job.

PS, Badger makes some of the best mounts and rings around, basic no frills or bullshit, they just fucking work and match up. Anyway, they're one of the few places that makes a full line of 1 piece mounts that'll accommodate a USO erector.

 

[Rob01]

Now that you have it make sure to run a tracking test. The reason I dumped my USO scopes back around 2006 is that 4 out of 5 I had didn't track. They were way off and after sending a couple in and getting them back being still off and told they were "close enough" then I stopped using them. If they track they are a good scope.

 

[Poorboyr]

People on this website dislike US Optics and Leupold. I chalk that up to most people being band wagon fans. Kind of like Lawyers chasing ambulances. The majority of this site chases the new hottest thing and realize it’s not great, sale it, and go back to what they had......

Also, remember some of these individuals are sponsored shooters..........

Truth is, the SN3 is USOs best scope. The people that think it isn’t a great scope is because they probably never used one. An ER 25 is not a SN3. Optically, it is still at the top. I would rate it optically about equal to a Leupold Mark 8 and right below a Theta. And yes, I have them as well as others. Mechanically they are tanks, period. I have beat the hell out of the ones I’ve had with never an issue.

Now features, it is dated. As with all USOs, they are huge. But still not as heavy as a Vortex... there are no locking turrets or true zero stops. Some will say the reticles suck, however I love the Gen II XR which you can get them in. The Erek knob is one of the best, but it is a little of a pain to set.

Depending on what you want and what features you want, the SN3 will run with any scope today and bypass most. I wouldn’t hesitate purchasing one. I currently run a SN3 on a rifle (7-300) that easily reaches a mile and out. No issues at all.

 

[Cascade Hemi]

My USO was the nicest looking, well built, piece of shit I've had the displeasure of owning. After all these years I still have a Leupold MK4...and the USO is long gone.

 

[brianf]

I’m not sure of the price mentioned but if I were going a used scope of the same vintage NF NSX
Better scope back then and a better used scope today...prob cheaper too

 

[wade2big]

I don't wanna say an exact dollar amount in case I don't like it and want to sell it. That's why I just asked how it stacks up performance-wise to newer scopes. Trust me that it was a no brainer to buy.

Its not what you paid when/if you decide to sell. It is what it’s worth compared to your asking price that does.

Answer the question because nobody on the hide would buy it anyhow.

 

[Gunfighter14e2]

Laughing,... there is lots of stupid, an some major B/S in this thread.

 

[Basher]

I enjoyed the SN3 I had, when I had it. But I sold it because as much as I wanted one, it lacked features that a more modern scope possessed. Glass on mine was excellent though, and I actually really like the original GAP reticle. The problem is, I want a more modern reticle for regular use, and I couldn't afford to keep the USO AND get something of a more recent production. So I let mine go, same with a like new ST-10. I regret selling them, maybe I'll get another some time for a classic feel on another rifle.

 

[grinnergetter]

My SN3's are not quite that old but both have served me well. No issues, shoot both out to 1000 regularly.

 

[Dthomas3523]

Well, some on here gave you some good advice, others don't know what the fuck they're talking about.

USO makes a solid scope. Can you do better today? Yes. Wanna spend the money?

Okay, so now that that is settled, you can get good deals on the ER25's (one was $1650 recently WITH H58 reticle) and LR17's with a GAP reticle for a little less. Lots of elevation comparably and they are built like tanks. A bit on the heavy side. Glass is supposed to be Shcott glass and it's always looked good to me so I don't know what dude is bitching about. They've always ranked sorta high there.

Don't know if SN3 was a budget scope or not though, worth looking into.

I don't know, fuck, you sure as hell could do a LOT worse in the PX when it comes to buying a used scope. They have their ups and downs, biggest downs being people rating 'em that have never even seen one, fact they are heavy and sorta long, archaic erector but it does allow for the EREK knob, but no critical downs to speak of.

I use 3 of 'em plus a spotter and I like 'em. Seriously doubt I'll see myself selling one either, though I may swap one out with a Hensoldt down the line and relegate the 3.2-17x to another job.

PS, Badger makes some of the best mounts and rings around, basic no frills or bullshit, they just fucking work and match up. Anyway, they're one of the few places that makes a full line of 1 piece mounts that'll accommodate a USO erector.

“They’ve always ranked sorta high there”

I barely know anyone who would list USO in any of their best glass lists.

They are generally good optics, but they ain’t great at much. Especially since the full custom option is off the table now.

USO offered $25k to anyone regularly using a USO through the season and wins either prs or Nrl finale. Hardly any of the guys (Vibbert only one I can think of) that have a chance use them. That’s a big statement.

And I can promise you vortex, leupold, whoever, ain’t paying them $25k not to.

 

[Nik H]

Laughing,... there is lots of stupid, an some major B/S in this thread.

Yes there is

 

[Nik H]

I still have my SN3. Bought it in 2000 used.

Is it comparable to my Benders, NF and other modern scopes. Probably not in terms of ultimate clarity and contrast. Probably not in features but it has been on a lot of SA rifles including AR10s, HK SR9T and most notably my 82A1. It is almost 20 years old and seen a lot of rounds. Never broke and tracks quite well even today

 

[702lineman]

I have had quite a few scopes, and lr17 is my favorite. Idk why, it's not all Gucci, it just works. All of it. It is the only scope I've hung onto. Glass can hang with any of them. Not saying it's the best, but I dont get into the hair splitting bullshit. If you have to have two scopes side by side to tell much difference it doesn't matter. I've had a couple uso scopes and used them a lot over the last few years. They have never let me down. Apparently some people say otherwise.

Here's the deal, I bought this lr17 a few years ago for 1300 bucks. I could have bought 2 of them and had money left for my one atacr I owned. Is an atacr worth double what the lr17 or a used gen 2 razor is? Idk. To me? No. Some people it might be. If you get the sn3 cheap go for it.

 

[Shake12321]

I sure like all the USO’s I own. Resolution is great and FOV acceptable. Reticle may leave you wanting more depending on your needs. Turrets are a little on the “soft” side, but have always tracked true for me. I’d say buy it and if you don’t like it sell it on eBay. They seem to bring a lot more there than here.

 

[bachelorjack]

Two camps emerge.

Mine works great--the naysayers are full of shit.

Mine failed--getting it fixed was a shit show of epic proportions. Won't touch them ever again.

Notice. They guys who's failed aren't trashing them for the sub par non HD glass, lack of features, excessive weight, or an overbuilt structure that doesn't actually prevent failures. Instead it's centered around their scope failing and how the MFG handled the situation.

Very similar to the complaints about Leupold....

 

[RTH1800]

People on this website dislike US Optics and Leupold. I chalk that up to most people being band wagon fans. Kind of like Lawyers chasing ambulances. The majority of this site chases the new hottest thing and realize it’s not great, sale it, and go back to what they had......

Also, remember some of these individuals are sponsored shooters..........

Truth is, the SN3 is USOs best scope. The people that think it isn’t a great scope is because they probably never used one. An ER 25 is not a SN3. Optically, it is still at the top. I would rate it optically about equal to a Leupold Mark 8 and right below a Theta. And yes, I have them as well as others. Mechanically they are tanks, period. I have beat the hell out of the ones I’ve had with never an issue.

Now features, it is dated. As with all USOs, they are huge. But still not as heavy as a Vortex... there are no locking turrets or true zero stops. Some will say the reticles suck, however I love the Gen II XR which you can get them in. The Erek knob is one of the best, but it is a little of a pain to set.

Depending on what you want and what features you want, the SN3 will run with any scope today and bypass most. I wouldn’t hesitate purchasing one. I currently run a SN3 on a rifle (7-300) that easily reaches a mile and out. No issues at all.

poorboy,
You are correct that I dislike USO scopes. Has nothing to do with bandwagon like behavior.

I owned two of them. Optics were poor, owners manuals do not exist. I never had one stand up long enough to use it in the field. I returned them so many times USO offered to make me new ones as they said they could not be fixed. I literally spent hundreds of dollars on shipping and insurance. Lot of time and ammo trying to get them to work.

They were likely the worst shooting product experience of my life.

Rather than comment in ignorance on the motivations and experience of others I suggest you simply state your own and move on.

 

[diving dave]

I have 2 SN3's, both bought here on the Hide. I have had zero issues with either. One is a 30 mm tube and the other a 35mm. Shot a match recently and we had a target to engage at about 1450. Alot of guys were dialing and holding, due to glass bottoming out. With a EREK mil, I had no issues rolling up to 14 something mils and still had adjustment. I like mine.

 

[Poorboyr]

poorboy,
You are correct that I dislike USO scopes. Has nothing to do with bandwagon like behavior.

I owned two of them. Optics were poor, owners manuals do not exist. I never had one stand up long enough to use it in the field. I returned them so many times USO offered to make me new ones as they said they could not be fixed. I literally spent hundreds of dollars on shipping and insurance. Lot of time and ammo trying to get them to work.

They were likely the worst shooting product experience of my life.

Rather than comment in ignorance on the motivations and experience of others I suggest you simply state your own and move on.

Simple question? Were they SN3s, ERs, or B series scopes?

 

[Pharmer909]

Here's a look at the US optics building process. Unlike zeiss, these guys use skater dudes to assemble their scopes lol. Bet the place smells like Marijuana and body odor. I was expecting lab coats and an actual clean room like the Zeiss or Leupold peeps.

 

[RTH1800]

Simple question? Were they SN3s, ERs, or B series scopes?

I don’t recall the specifics. One was a 2.5-10 SN 3??
The other was 5-25 iirc
Been a while back.

 

[b6graham]

I have 2 SN3's, both bought here on the Hide. I have had zero issues with either. One is a 30 mm tube and the other a 35mm. Shot a match recently and we had a target to engage at about 1450. Alot of guys were dialing and holding, due to glass bottoming out. With a EREK mil, I had no issues rolling up to 14 something mils and still had adjustment. I like mine.

who cant dial to 1450?

 

[jbailey]

Bet the place smells like Marijuana and body odor. I was expecting lab coats and an actual clean room like the Zeiss or Leupold peeps.

Milk spit laugh of the day for me. Thanks for that one.

I had 3 USOs, all of SN3s. They all had crud on the inside of the lens and the glass wasn't very good. I found the CS too be excellent (but this was 10 years ago - in the Brea CA days). After seeing so much more with Schmidts and Premiers, I sold the USOs and went to German glass. That was 7 years ago and I don't regret that decision.

Even if you get a deal on a USO, you put yourself at a disadvantage for years with the inferior optic. If you look at these scopes as 10yr investments, the price difference is nearly irrelevant. Consider a $1000 optic vs a $3000 one. Over 10 years, shooting once a week, or 500 times to make the math easy, that is $4 per shooting session difference. Plus your $3000 optic is worth maybe $1500 in 10 years and the $1000 is worth maybe $500, so you get 1/2 the cost back. Now you are at $2/shooting session difference, i.e. a few rounds of ammunition.

No brainer at that price. Just pay up on the front end, and enjoy the tool for a long long time in style.

 

[elmuzzlebreak]

I would avoid USO entirely. The company is going through some growing pangs and though they do have a good social media campaign their QC is very hit or miss. People either get a scope that works or they get one that needs to go back multiple times due to flaws which should have prevented it from leaving the factory in the first place. For the price of a decked out B25 with a horus reticle (H59 or T3) you would be better served with a NF, Schmidt, or Kahles. Plainly put they have been outpaced and have very poor QC their price point and hype.

Also have a look at the resale value here on the PX and elsewhere. USOs do not have much resale value if any and be prepared to take a loss. I've seen older ER25s and even newer B25s struggle to sell north of 1500.

 

[b6graham]

growing pains? more like dying pains

 

[RTH1800]

Doubt they are seeing much growth.

 

[AIAW]

growing pains? more like dying pains

Unfortunately, this is absolutely the truth.

 

[elmuzzlebreak]

Unfortunately, this is absolutely the truth.

I’m trying to be nicer these days. But yes you are right.

 

[W54/XM-388]

I would avoid USO entirely. The company is going through some growing pangs and though they do have a good social media campaign their QC is very hit or miss. People either get a scope that works or they get one that needs to go back multiple times due to flaws which should have prevented it from leaving the factory in the first place. For the price of a decked out B25 with a horus reticle (H59 or T3) you would be better served with a NF, Schmidt, or Kahles. Plainly put they have been outpaced and have very poor QC their price point and hype.

Not that there is any truth to it, but there used to be an old joke that when getting a USO scope, make sure you got one made on Wednesday or Thursday only, and for sure NOT on Monday or Friday.......

 

[softcock]

used SN-3 if good price Buy It .
If we are strictly talking about the old ( SN3 ) obj. focal they were Tracking Machines back then . old one's were 34mm body but they went to 35mm before discontinuing that SN3 line, was great back in the day when you as a customer could really customize order multitude of configurations you chose to run . USoptics gave a personalized service .
I sent it back once for service, and still have one SN3, with Left-hand wind, M40 scalloped knob, EREK Elev. Green Ret., internal bubble level . I don't see why to ever get rid of it .
A lot of people switched out of Obj. focal because Side-Focal was easy to dial threw down range mirage and see wind flow. also maybe a little less fine focal clarity than Side-focal has . Other like Obj. focal because of the basic belief 'Less is More' a plus+ on internal mechanics .
.

 

[Rant Durden]

Can you ballpark a price? $100, $500, .25c? Kinda makes a huge difference.

 

[AGrizz]

You have a good scope that will work just fine for you. Mount it up and use the hell out of it. Been using one for over 20 years and have no reason to change. It presently sits on a 338 Lapua and works very well indeed.

 

[steve123]

Sure my SN3 tracked but it had almost the poorest glass I've owned, seriously I've had $50 scopes with better glass. I sent it back and it was slightly improved but still totally unacceptable.

That was the end of USO for me.

Friends have USO. One's ST10 (or whatever the designation is of the retro sniper scope) is total crap, it's horrible, we laugh after looking through it it's so bad???

Another has a 3.8-22, sorry man the glass is screwy.

I have seen USO scopes with decent glass but what are the chances of me running across two bad ones in my small circle, plus the one I had???

I'd almost rather have a IOR but thankfully I don't have to choose either.

 

[19Scout77]

God forbid it’s a USO with side parallax or even worse that POS “spotting scope”! USO...IOR’s inbred American cousin...

 

[sandwarrior]

who cant dial to 1450?

Nightforce 12-42xX56. And that was with a 20 moa base

 

[jbailey]

I think most folks wanted to love this company
- American made - hell yeah
- tough as nails - in case you need a framing hammer
- customize your optic - cause you are the most important client
- cool abbreviation USO
- EREK knob also looked bad ass
- Good background story - small business owner, giving it his all (and John Williams certainly did)
What is not to love here?

Well, the actual product left a lot to be desired. And now, unfortunately, since the Williams' have left, an already struggling company has gotten worse. I cringed when I saw their "TS series" made in China and at all cheapo price point.

 

[sandwarrior]

I think most folks wanted to love this company
- American made - hell yeah
- tough as nails - in case you need a framing hammer
- customize your optic - cause you are the most important client
- cool abbreviation USO
- EREK knob also looked bad ass
- Good background story - small business owner, giving it his all (and John Williams certainly did)
What is not to love here?

Well, the actual product left a lot to be desired. And now, unfortunately, since the Williams' have left, an already struggling company has gotten worse. I cringed when I saw their "TS series" made in China and at all cheapo price point.

I don't know how I'm hearing all this about USO.
The scopes were tough, and built that way on purpose. Amazing how they couldn't seem to track?

John Williams. (sr.) was an employee of Unertl....and also the short lived company (Plaster?) dedicated to keep his legacy going. So he knew a thing or two about building scopes. Good scopes.

The glass was a high level finish contract from Schott glass. The same people that provide glass for Zeiss, IOR (I know, you hate them too), and Meopta.and Doctor. As I understood it, S&B ground their own. It's the best I've seen. Swarovski not only ground their own, they used crystal. But, I would put USO glass up there with any of them except S&B. Definitely better than ALL Japanese glass I've ever looked through, though.

I thought the customization was awesome! Really spendy, though, if wanted a really one-off reticle. Still pretty reasonable for the choice of reticles throughout their lines of scopes.

Comparing an old SN-3 to a modern TS isn't apples to apples. However, I will agree that a company that made its name as Made in the USA now selling cheap Chinese non-craftsmanship SUCKS! I've seen too many POS's from there have to go back because they took a shit in the first six months of use. And, it wasn't rough use either. And, if you're lucky, get another one sometime in the next 1-6 months.