Working at 200yrds with a 700 in 308 using Remington 175 Match and Federal GMM in 168gr. I'm zero'd at 200 and my Bushnell Elite scope only has 10.2 in of vertical left on a 0 MOA Mark 4 base and I'm trying to figure out how far I can go before I need to buy either a new scope or an MOA base. By my calculations (and I really don't know what I'm doing) I think I have about 240 more yards or about 440 total. Is that correct? I'm tagging along with some folks who are shooting 500 at the end of the month and I'd hoped that my stock gear would let me try a shot or two.
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Rifle Scopes How far can I go?
- Thread starter DirtyRod
- Start date
Re: How far can I go?
Bushnell scopes are known to have little travel. Get a 20moa base. If you want something cheap, get a EGW 20MOA base. If you want something nice, get a Seekins base.
Bushnell scopes are known to have little travel. Get a 20moa base. If you want something cheap, get a EGW 20MOA base. If you want something nice, get a Seekins base.
Re: How far can I go?
Im not sure how to calculate it, but I think, if you have your drop chart sorted already, the 20moa base will allow you to dial out that axtra 20Moa... so whatever distance that allows on your drop chart would be how far you could take it.
correct me if im wrong please someone.
Im not sure how to calculate it, but I think, if you have your drop chart sorted already, the 20moa base will allow you to dial out that axtra 20Moa... so whatever distance that allows on your drop chart would be how far you could take it.
correct me if im wrong please someone.
Re: How far can I go?
If you're zeroed at 200 yards, and you have 10 MOA of travel left, that will probably get you to <span style="font-style: italic">around</span> 500 yards. I say that because with a .308, it normally takes about 12 MOA of elevation to get to 500 yards with a 100 yard zero. Since it normally takes 2 MOA to get from a 100 yard zero to 200 yards, it looks like you might have around 12 MOA total.
If you're zeroed at 200 yards, and you have 10 MOA of travel left, that will probably get you to <span style="font-style: italic">around</span> 500 yards. I say that because with a .308, it normally takes about 12 MOA of elevation to get to 500 yards with a 100 yard zero. Since it normally takes 2 MOA to get from a 100 yard zero to 200 yards, it looks like you might have around 12 MOA total.
Re: How far can I go?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: USMCj</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Bushnell scopes are known to have little travel. Get a 20moa base. If you want something cheap, get a EGW 20MOA base. If you want something nice, get a Seekins base. </div></div>
Not a steadfast rule there, it depends on the model.
The Bushnell Elite 3200 10x has about 85MOA of adjustment.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: USMCj</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Bushnell scopes are known to have little travel. Get a 20moa base. If you want something cheap, get a EGW 20MOA base. If you want something nice, get a Seekins base. </div></div>
Not a steadfast rule there, it depends on the model.
The Bushnell Elite 3200 10x has about 85MOA of adjustment.
Re: How far can I go?
As Lindy mentioned above, your current setup will get you very close. Working on a manufacturers (PMC) drop chart for a 180gn Sierra SPBT projectile in 308 zeroed at 200 yards:
Muzzle -1.5 inches
100 Yards +2.17 inches
200 Yards 0.00 (zero)
300 Yards -8.89 inches
400 Yards -25.54 inches
500 Yards -51.32 inches
Given that an 1 MOA = 1.047 inches at 100 yards, for the above the elevation adjustments in MOA are (as read from a MilDot Master):
300 Yards 2.8 MOA
400 Yards 6 MOA
500 Yards 9.8 MOA
Accepting that this is a slightly heavier projectile that you are using, you should be okay. My recommendation would be to look at another scope, rather than a 20MOA base. The best glass is in the centre, by using a slopped base you will never actually be looking through the centre of your scope.
Just my two cents.
As Lindy mentioned above, your current setup will get you very close. Working on a manufacturers (PMC) drop chart for a 180gn Sierra SPBT projectile in 308 zeroed at 200 yards:
Muzzle -1.5 inches
100 Yards +2.17 inches
200 Yards 0.00 (zero)
300 Yards -8.89 inches
400 Yards -25.54 inches
500 Yards -51.32 inches
Given that an 1 MOA = 1.047 inches at 100 yards, for the above the elevation adjustments in MOA are (as read from a MilDot Master):
300 Yards 2.8 MOA
400 Yards 6 MOA
500 Yards 9.8 MOA
Accepting that this is a slightly heavier projectile that you are using, you should be okay. My recommendation would be to look at another scope, rather than a 20MOA base. The best glass is in the centre, by using a slopped base you will never actually be looking through the centre of your scope.
Just my two cents.
Re: How far can I go?
I read that the DirtyRod has 10.2" of vertical travel left from his 200yd zero (I'm assuming the inches you say that are at 200 as well), so it sounds like you have 5 minutes left.......so with 175 Rem match or 168's around 2650 or so you'll make it to 400 or so on adjustment, and then you can hold a mil or a little more on your reticle.
I'd suggest grabbing another scope with more travel, and while your scopes off a 20moa base wouldn't hurt.
I read that the DirtyRod has 10.2" of vertical travel left from his 200yd zero (I'm assuming the inches you say that are at 200 as well), so it sounds like you have 5 minutes left.......so with 175 Rem match or 168's around 2650 or so you'll make it to 400 or so on adjustment, and then you can hold a mil or a little more on your reticle.
I'd suggest grabbing another scope with more travel, and while your scopes off a 20moa base wouldn't hurt.
Re: How far can I go?
Great info guys. It is 10.2 Inches of travel left at 200 yards. I'll hit the Federal and Remington sites and pull that chart down for reference.
Going to a 20 MOA base was definitely in the plan when I changed the scope and it sounds like I'll need one for 500. I was just hoping to be able to shoot this gear a while and upgrade when my skills improved to where I NEED better gear. This was more of a one time deal as I'm not really ready to move past 200 yet.
Great info guys. It is 10.2 Inches of travel left at 200 yards. I'll hit the Federal and Remington sites and pull that chart down for reference.
Going to a 20 MOA base was definitely in the plan when I changed the scope and it sounds like I'll need one for 500. I was just hoping to be able to shoot this gear a while and upgrade when my skills improved to where I NEED better gear. This was more of a one time deal as I'm not really ready to move past 200 yet.
Re: How far can I go?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: kiwi308</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The best glass is in the centre, by using a slopped base you will never actually be looking through the centre of your scope. </div></div>
Wow. Never thought of that. Thank you!
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: kiwi308</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The best glass is in the centre, by using a slopped base you will never actually be looking through the centre of your scope. </div></div>
Wow. Never thought of that. Thank you!
Re: How far can I go?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: kiwi308</div><div class="ubbcode-body">.......................
The best glass is in the centre, by using a slopped base you will never actually be looking through the centre of your scope.
Just my two cents.
</div></div>
There is alot wrong with that statement.
1-Unless you have the erector optically centered and never dial away from that center, you will never be at the center anyway. To accomplish this means you should not use the knobs to adjust the scope for zero.
Good luck with that.
2-If you dial elevation, and ever need to dial more than 10MOA of elevation, a 20MOA base will actually bring you closer to optical center than a 0MOA base.
3-I have never had problems with dialing away from center. It is a non-issue, but if you dial...... a non-zero base is more likely to help than hurt.
4-Unless you shoot a cartridge that defies gravity, and have the barrel mounted so you can shoot through your scope instead of under it, any scope would be closer to optical center for a 100 yard zero with at least a small taper to the base to correct for the elevation you dialed for natural drop, and to correct for the elevation you dialed to get the barrel pointing where you are looking.
Since barrels are normally under the scope, the scope needs some elevation dialed-on to make the bullet path and sight path coincide at 100 yards.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: kiwi308</div><div class="ubbcode-body">.......................
The best glass is in the centre, by using a slopped base you will never actually be looking through the centre of your scope.
Just my two cents.
</div></div>
There is alot wrong with that statement.
1-Unless you have the erector optically centered and never dial away from that center, you will never be at the center anyway. To accomplish this means you should not use the knobs to adjust the scope for zero.
Good luck with that.
2-If you dial elevation, and ever need to dial more than 10MOA of elevation, a 20MOA base will actually bring you closer to optical center than a 0MOA base.
3-I have never had problems with dialing away from center. It is a non-issue, but if you dial...... a non-zero base is more likely to help than hurt.
4-Unless you shoot a cartridge that defies gravity, and have the barrel mounted so you can shoot through your scope instead of under it, any scope would be closer to optical center for a 100 yard zero with at least a small taper to the base to correct for the elevation you dialed for natural drop, and to correct for the elevation you dialed to get the barrel pointing where you are looking.
Since barrels are normally under the scope, the scope needs some elevation dialed-on to make the bullet path and sight path coincide at 100 yards.
Re: How far can I go?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Rafael</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: kiwi308</div><div class="ubbcode-body">.......................
The best glass is in the centre, by using a slopped base you will never actually be looking through the centre of your scope.
Just my two cents.
</div></div>
There is alot wrong with that statement.
1-Unless you have the erector optically centered and never dial away from that center, you will never be at the center anyway. To accomplish this means you should not use the knobs to adjust the scope.
Good luck with that.
2-If you dial elevation, and ever need to dial more than 10MOA of elevation, a 20MOA base will actually bring you closer to optical center than a 0MOA base.
3-I have never had problems with dialing away from center. It is a non-issue, but if you dial...... a non-zero base is more likely to help than hurt. </div></div>
1. Hence why alot of the old school shooters shimmed their rings to ensure that they were using the centre of their glass.
2. In the initial example a scope with around 40MOA was used, so 20MOA from the top or bottom is the centre, by adding a rail with 20 MOA base, your centre is now 10 MOA up, or 30 MOA down, given that a little will be used to get on target we're still substantially off our centre.
3. Agree perhaps not so much of an issue now days, which speaks volumes of the improvement in the glass. However just makes me chuckle with people spending thousands on scopes then not actually using the best part of the glass. The key to it is understanding how much adjustment is required to get your scope to the zero you want (100, 200 yards etc), and then either shimming your rings or getting a slopped rail. But the above suggestions seem counter to this notion.
In the end, I'm not a optics engineer, and chances are your S&B's, Nightforces etc will have very good glass right out to the edge - but is it the best part of the lens to use?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Rafael</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: kiwi308</div><div class="ubbcode-body">.......................
The best glass is in the centre, by using a slopped base you will never actually be looking through the centre of your scope.
Just my two cents.
</div></div>
There is alot wrong with that statement.
1-Unless you have the erector optically centered and never dial away from that center, you will never be at the center anyway. To accomplish this means you should not use the knobs to adjust the scope.
Good luck with that.
2-If you dial elevation, and ever need to dial more than 10MOA of elevation, a 20MOA base will actually bring you closer to optical center than a 0MOA base.
3-I have never had problems with dialing away from center. It is a non-issue, but if you dial...... a non-zero base is more likely to help than hurt. </div></div>
1. Hence why alot of the old school shooters shimmed their rings to ensure that they were using the centre of their glass.
2. In the initial example a scope with around 40MOA was used, so 20MOA from the top or bottom is the centre, by adding a rail with 20 MOA base, your centre is now 10 MOA up, or 30 MOA down, given that a little will be used to get on target we're still substantially off our centre.
3. Agree perhaps not so much of an issue now days, which speaks volumes of the improvement in the glass. However just makes me chuckle with people spending thousands on scopes then not actually using the best part of the glass. The key to it is understanding how much adjustment is required to get your scope to the zero you want (100, 200 yards etc), and then either shimming your rings or getting a slopped rail. But the above suggestions seem counter to this notion.
In the end, I'm not a optics engineer, and chances are your S&B's, Nightforces etc will have very good glass right out to the edge - but is it the best part of the lens to use?
Re: How far can I go?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: kiwi308</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Rafael</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: kiwi308</div><div class="ubbcode-body">.......................
The best glass is in the centre, by using a slopped base you will never actually be looking through the centre of your scope.
Just my two cents.
</div></div>
There is alot wrong with that statement.
1-Unless you have the erector optically centered and never dial away from that center, you will never be at the center anyway. To accomplish this means you should not use the knobs to adjust the scope.
Good luck with that.
2-If you dial elevation, and ever need to dial more than 10MOA of elevation, a 20MOA base will actually bring you closer to optical center than a 0MOA base.
3-I have never had problems with dialing away from center. It is a non-issue, but if you dial...... a non-zero base is more likely to help than hurt. </div></div>
1. Hence why alot of the old school shooters shimmed their rings to ensure that they were using the centre of their glass.
2. In the initial example a scope with around 40MOA was used, so 20MOA from the top or bottom is the centre, by adding a rail with 20 MOA base, your centre is now 10 MOA up, or 30 MOA down, given that a little will be used to get on target we're still substantially off our centre.
3. Agree perhaps not so much of an issue now days, which speaks volumes of the improvement in the glass. However just makes me chuckle with people spending thousands on scopes then not actually using the best part of the glass. The key to it is understanding how much adjustment is required to get your scope to the zero you want (100, 200 yards etc), and then either shimming your rings or getting a slopped rail. But the above suggestions seem counter to this notion.
In the end, I'm not a optics engineer, and chances are your S&B's, Nightforces etc will have very good glass right out to the edge - but is it the best part of the lens to use? </div></div>
As to your number 1: Shimming is a horrible way to fix this non-issue, and a good way to put the scope in a bind...and maybe even do damage since it can put the rings out of alignment.
As to your number 2: That is only true, and only partly at that, if you NEVER dial any elevation. As soon as you dial 20MOA, you are back to center anyway......even if you achieve zero without moving the erector away from the cnter of it's travel while zeroing.......and you will most likely use some for that. I use more than 30MOA every time I shoot to 1000 yards and by your story I should be really screwed.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: kiwi308</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Rafael</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: kiwi308</div><div class="ubbcode-body">.......................
The best glass is in the centre, by using a slopped base you will never actually be looking through the centre of your scope.
Just my two cents.
</div></div>
There is alot wrong with that statement.
1-Unless you have the erector optically centered and never dial away from that center, you will never be at the center anyway. To accomplish this means you should not use the knobs to adjust the scope.
Good luck with that.
2-If you dial elevation, and ever need to dial more than 10MOA of elevation, a 20MOA base will actually bring you closer to optical center than a 0MOA base.
3-I have never had problems with dialing away from center. It is a non-issue, but if you dial...... a non-zero base is more likely to help than hurt. </div></div>
1. Hence why alot of the old school shooters shimmed their rings to ensure that they were using the centre of their glass.
2. In the initial example a scope with around 40MOA was used, so 20MOA from the top or bottom is the centre, by adding a rail with 20 MOA base, your centre is now 10 MOA up, or 30 MOA down, given that a little will be used to get on target we're still substantially off our centre.
3. Agree perhaps not so much of an issue now days, which speaks volumes of the improvement in the glass. However just makes me chuckle with people spending thousands on scopes then not actually using the best part of the glass. The key to it is understanding how much adjustment is required to get your scope to the zero you want (100, 200 yards etc), and then either shimming your rings or getting a slopped rail. But the above suggestions seem counter to this notion.
In the end, I'm not a optics engineer, and chances are your S&B's, Nightforces etc will have very good glass right out to the edge - but is it the best part of the lens to use? </div></div>
As to your number 1: Shimming is a horrible way to fix this non-issue, and a good way to put the scope in a bind...and maybe even do damage since it can put the rings out of alignment.
As to your number 2: That is only true, and only partly at that, if you NEVER dial any elevation. As soon as you dial 20MOA, you are back to center anyway......even if you achieve zero without moving the erector away from the cnter of it's travel while zeroing.......and you will most likely use some for that. I use more than 30MOA every time I shoot to 1000 yards and by your story I should be really screwed.
Re: How far can I go?
Agreed, we all dial so at some stage we will move from the best part of the lens to parts less so. However, many of us while hunting will not adjust and simply use our point blank range, and it's having the best glass used most of the time. I would rather use the best glass some of the time, than potentially none of the time. Each to their own.
Agreed, we all dial so at some stage we will move from the best part of the lens to parts less so. However, many of us while hunting will not adjust and simply use our point blank range, and it's having the best glass used most of the time. I would rather use the best glass some of the time, than potentially none of the time. Each to their own.
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