How Heavy is Too Heavy, Rifle Weight

[Poppa1]

won my first Match at 8 yrs old. Camp Y noah YMCA
Covered 3 rnds with a dime. no warm ups, no practice Pre match.
Where I grew up, a match rifle was what ever you had.
Excellent write up.
When you only get 3 rounds a week and yer rifle doesnt have sites, you learn to NOT miss = wasting hard earned cash that Pops had to bust Butt to earn.
Fundamentals is Gods Law when it comes to shooting, long guns or short

 

[Newbie2020]

This is why I highly recommend any Frank and Marc Snipers Hide training course.

Solid fundamentals are constantly hammered for three straight days.

After taking multiple courses over the past several years I have watched Frank and Marc hone and improve even the most seasoned of shooters—-both comp shooters and hunters alike.

 

[Poppa1]

This is why I highly recommend any Frank and Marc Snipers Hide training course.

Solid fundamentals are constantly hammered for three straight days.

After taking multiple courses over the past several years I have watched Frank and Marc hone and improve even the most seasoned of shooters—-both comp shooters and hunters alike.

I'm kinda bassackwards.
While I became a serious shooter over time growing up I loved it more than the norm. I've always wanted to compete, but life military etc got in the way. I'm working on my bucket list. I figured the Hide was the best place to start. Other than youtube, I don't know squat about competing in these matches.
What I do know, is if I can get a grip on the discipline requirements, there be hell to pay cuz I can already shoot.
But then so can 5yr old with a bb gun.
Happy Safe Holidays all.

 

[Emerson0311]

Any comp game has specific tools. If you are not a top 5 shooter, run whatever you feel develops your intended skill, or, as some do, burn powder for “fun”. A cumulative 4% point gain from several “gamer” tools or techniques makes a huge difference in the top 5. Fundamentals only get you so far. Any competitive podium shooter will adapt to any rule changes and still crush the “No sling shooters are pussies” crowd. We aspiring podium shooters have been grinding fundamentals for years already.

 

[Poppa1]

Any comp game has specific tools. If you are not a top 5 shooter, run whatever you feel develops your intended skill, or, as some do, burn powder for “fun”. A cumulative 4% point gain from several “gamer” tools or techniques makes a huge difference in the top 5. Fundamentals only get you so far. Any competitive podium shooter will adapt to any rule changes and still crush the “No sling shooters are pussies” crowd. We aspiring podium shooters have been grinding fundamentals for years already.

I intend to embrace the tools within reason, and take note of the many differences including time restraints.. being disabled, the time restraints will likely be the steepest hill to climb, but climb it I will. I am an addictive learner. that will help me a lot. hopefully more than It hurts and It can really suck a root when it creeps up on me.comepeeting under a clock is a thing Ive never dont when it comes to guns, its not something that gets safer when rushed. for what I know about myself, if i participate in a match this year I will surely be very surprised.
different classes different tools hardware, the rifle I figure at the least a good 6 weeks of reading in addition to bugging the crap outa Frank and others to find out first what I dont know so I can at least get started. the only plan I have currently that envolves shooting is build a few barricades, set up some steel, and imitate some of what Im seeing. I plan to do this with 3 calibers. Marling 22lr, RPR 6.5 CM and Savage 110 LRH 338 LM.
If and when I feel comfy enough to get my feet wet, The 22lr will be the first caliber. if I get agrin, its all systems go, Ive never been embarrased to lose, losing is easy. winning is hard, a good winner has leaned from hi losses. A lousy winner? He got lucky to have the skills or maybe a loser made a mistake.
Either way, Up the hill we go....

 

[Newbie2020]

The shooting is the easy part IMHO.

Building stable positions is critical to get size of the wobble zone down. Takes lotsa reps build and break, build and break, repeat.

 

[Rio Precision Gunworks]

Any comp game has specific tools. If you are not a top 5 shooter, run whatever you feel develops your intended skill, or, as some do, burn powder for “fun”. A cumulative 4% point gain from several “gamer” tools or techniques makes a huge difference in the top 5. Fundamentals only get you so far. Any competitive podium shooter will adapt to any rule changes and still crush the “No sling shooters are pussies” crowd. We aspiring podium shooters have been grinding fundamentals for years already.

What "gamer tools or techniques" are you currently seeing at the top of PRS? This was true a few years ago when rifles weren't in race gun chassis and able to weight 22lbs or more while shooting 6mm at 2800fps. You'd see all kinds of plates, arca barricade stops, people using 6 bags and a cooler.......

You can click on YouTube videos for days looking through videos of matches as difficult as AG cup and such. And you will almost never see anything more than a single bag, bipod, and at times tripod in rear.



I've never met a shooter who had rock solid fundamentals who couldn't start placing very high in PRS once they learn how to build positions (position building is fundamentals, not just prone). What I have seen a lot of is people who think they have rock solid fundamentals, but have pretty big leaks in their game.

 

[Emerson0311]

What "gamer tools or techniques" are you currently seeing at the top of PRS? This was true a few years ago when rifles weren't in race gun chassis and able to weight 22lbs or more while shooting 6mm at 2800fps. You'd see all kinds of plates, arca barricade stops, people using 6 bags and a cooler.......

You can click on YouTube videos for days looking through videos of matches as difficult as AG cup and such. And you will almost never see anything more than a single bag, bipod, and at times tripod in rear.



I've never met a shooter who had rock solid fundamentals who couldn't start placing very high in PRS once they learn how to build positions (position building is fundamentals, not just prone). What I have seen a lot of is people who think they have rock solid fundamentals, but have pretty big leaks in their game.

To the poster that declined to participate in any more matches because he was the only one with a sling, all the tools used in PRS are “gamer” tools. Same as a bag to him. I am not a national class PRS shooter. I am 1-2 places off the podium in the Rimfire regional 2 dayers. That being said, I don’t shoot prone, or even practice my solid positions much anymore. Just the crappy awkward weird ones and super wobbly props.

 

[Lawyerman]

To the poster that declined to participate in any more matches because he was the only one with a sling, all the tools used in PRS are “gamer” tools. Same as a bag to him. I am not a national class PRS shooter. I am 1-2 places off the podium in the Rimfire regional 2 dayers. That being said, I don’t shoot prone, or even practice my solid positions much anymore. Just the crappy awkward weird ones and super wobbly props.

If you have a little red "cart" that you use to truck your rifle and associated crap to the line, that's Gamer. Lol.....The matches I shoot- we walk between stations- miles if you shoot the whole course- and there is no pavement or mowed shooting greens in sight. You CARRY whatever you are going to use and if you can't carry it (Which is why a Sling might matter) you don't have it. Half of the shooters that shot the match I was at had little "carts" they were wheeling their stuff around in because there was either too much of it, it was too heavy or frankly they were fat and out of shape.

I'm not opposed to anything people want to use- if they can or are willing to physically carry it. I guess I'm just more of a field shooter and the top "5%" etc...has no relevancy to me, I'm only interested in being a capable shooter.

 

[Rio Precision Gunworks]

To the poster that declined to participate in any more matches because he was the only one with a sling, all the tools used in PRS are “gamer” tools. Same as a bag to him. I am not a national class PRS shooter. I am 1-2 places off the podium in the Rimfire regional 2 dayers. That being said, I don’t shoot prone, or even practice my solid positions much anymore. Just the crappy awkward weird ones and super wobbly props.

Yea, rimfire is still a bit gimmicky in a lot of the country. You won't see too many awkward or super wobbly props at national level centerfire much anymore. There's a fine line in "realistic" and "gimmicky" and its easy to cross it for some match directors.

 

[ma smith]

Yea, rimfire is still a bit gimmicky in a lot of the country. You won't see too many awkward or super wobbly props at national level centerfire much anymore. There's a fine line in "realistic" and "gimmicky" and its easy to cross it for some match directors.

IIRC every NRL22 match had "a bucket" prop for several years. And then if it wasn't a bucket, it was a step-ladder, or a folding chair. None of that office-supply stuff balances very well on a grass field (which is often either too hard or too soft!). Nothing against the MDs or the organizers, its just the basic reality.

You routinely would see $4-6k rifle builds, built to shoot off $2 props at official events. And the match-winning 22LRs right now, they are running 1.2 x 24in barrel. And to balance, it is something like ±18 pounds depeding on your starting chassis weight. Since it ends up being heavier and more expensive to balance skinnier barrels...the 1.2 and 1.25 truck axels get used...LOL.

Or maybe I'm wrong. But at least check your math to make sure...

 

[sinister]

The difference between a gamer and folks who do this for real or as a matter of their job concerns the long haul. Are you planning a weekend match, a month-long comp, or a 6-, 12-, or 18-month tour?

Do you shower, eat at a restaurant, and bunk in a hotel after the day's match?

Are you smoked after the day? Are you being shot at every time you draw down on a target? Are you being chased down by targets once you've taken out a leader? If they overtake you will you be tortured and killed?

Weight and balance on your gun should help you, overall, in every match or stage you shoot.

 

[ECK]

I just finished putting together a rifle for NRL Hunter matches, going from my PRS 20 lb rifle chambered in 6GT to a 15.8 lb 6.5CM rifle. I’m also learning to shoot off of a Schmedium with git-lite fill rather than heavy sand. And following a double stent procedure in May I lost 15 lbs mainly thru diet and exercise. So I’m kinda going through a similar process of weight reduction (gear and body).

Pic for the hell of it:

A few thoughts:
-First off, I think my technique and shooting fundamentals are better now than they were two years ago when I first started shooting the 20 lb 6GT at PRS matches.
-The above 15 lb rifle is nicely balanced, so that helps. It took a couple internal weights in the chassis and the bipod to get it to balance.
-Even tho it’s a little heavier recoiling 6.5CM vs 6GT, it’s not like I’m pushing the velocities very hard. NRL Hunter PF is 381,000, so my 140 ELDM load is running @ 2,750 fps, and I’m in the process of working up a 147 ELDM load @ 2,625 fps. I imagine if I got some 153 or 156 Bergers it’d be an even softer shooting load.
-The brake helps, and shooting off the bag with the lighter rifle I can still spot my hits/misses
-As far as the git-lite fill, I’m really digging this bag. I committed to putting aside my heavy fill Schmedium and using the git-lite exclusively for a while to get used to it, but I think I already am after the first week. The Schmedium is the perfect size for me and I suppose something from shooting 2-3 matches a month for the last two years must have rubbed off. True, the heavy fill bag is steadier and will just sit there on the prop. With the git-lite fill I have to be more deliberate when I set it down and karate chop it into place. But when moving positions or carrying all my gear, the git-lite bag is a joy compared to the 10-ish lbs heavy fill Schmedium.

Plus just moving around with a 15 lb rifle is more pleasant than a 20 lb.

 

[RobertB]

I've got rigs built from 8# to 22#. I don't like anything on either end of the spectrum. I can do well with my 11# rigs for field matches and NRL Hunter and I can do well with my 16-18# PRS rigs and even with my 308 over my 6/6.5s. I have learned you need to be a bit more picky on the lighter end to be able to do as good. Shape and balance matter more on the light rigs and then testing bags and fill can make a big difference when you're messing with the lighter range fare.

I agree with the article. I see so many new shooters that are doing well in PRS with a heavy rifle, light trigger, and small cartridge. Then things don't go as well when you give them a 6.5/7/30 in a 12# rig. A lot of our training is done with long range hunting rigs and I appreciate it as I don't get to forsake my fundamentals if I expect to see what's going on downrange. My precision hunter rigs have quickly become a fav of mine if I can only have one rifle to do it all. With a scope and all they are just under 12# and I feel pretty good with everything except long strings of fire. The lighter rifles inspire me to keep my entire kit lighter as well with the thought to give up little if any stability and versatility. Once you get the whole system and kit simplified and down to a manageable weight while still maintaining a high level of capability the game changes and I feel you elevate yourself. That's my goal with it anyway.

I'll still shoot all the disciplines and try to learn from each but there is something about doing it with a light rig. On that thought I think I will shoot a PRS match with a light rig this year just to see how I can stack up!