How important is a seater die

[bschneiderheinze]

I have been reloading for 3-4 years but am trying to increase my reloading consistency. I currently only use regular RCBS dies and some lee dies. I' ve been thinking about buying a new competition seater die and maybe a bushing type neck sizer to increase my accuracy. I'm not even real sure what runout is but I know it can make a difference in accuracy. My new 308 is really tight chambered and the lee neck sizers arent cutting it. I use quality components Lapua brass, fed match primers and match 168 or 175 from hornady, sierra, or berger. Im looking for recomendations on a good seater that will reduce my runout first and then a quality neck sizer die.

Thank you for any responses

 

[427Cobra]

IMHO there all about the same, but a Redding Comp Seater is the easiest and best of them, and stop neck sizing, a properley set up FL die is just as accurate and always chambers.

 

[bschneiderheinze]

Thank you for the comments I was going to start fl sizing exclusively and just back it out so it doesnt push the shoulder back as much. Thr rifle im reloading for is chambered so tight and short that I loaded some to 2.810 and when I tried to load a round and extract it without firing I had several bullets pull out and stuck in the lands which really sucked as my chambered got filled up with bits of powder each time. Im thinking Im going to have to load it to 2.79 or shorter. Are you saying a regular RCBS or Lee seating die is just as good as a competition seating die.

 

[918v]

Competition seaters are more convenient. They have a micrometer top that you can use to adjust OAL easily. A conventional die requires trial and error. A comp die allows you to dial it in in increments of .001". No, they do not seat any straighter. Runout is caused by the case primarily, and by the sizing process secondarily. You can eliminate most of the runout by adjusting your sizing die correctly. Or you can hit the easy button and do what I do.

 

[1slow01z71]

Ive got competition sets for most of the calibers I shoot except 308. For my 308 Ive just got a regular green box set of dies mainly because the forster micrometer set I want has been MIA for the last year or so it seems. With that said my 308 is a hammer with loads made off those "crappy" dies. Just shot these two sub half moa groups with rounds made with powder thrown from a chargemaster, in "crappy" hornady brass, using "crappy" green box rcbs dies, those cheap ass amax bullets and basically stock R700 5R. I must be doing something wrong

Personally I like the rcbs competition seater die set as they use an elevated shell holder and the die has a bullet window in the side so you just drop the bullet in and seat. Much easier, but I also like the ability to use my nice dies on my progressive press as well which wont work with the rcbs competition dies since I cant put the elevated shell holder in the turret. Ive used pretty much all the nicer dies out there and they don't do anything better than the $90 set of forster micrometer dies. Im not a glutton for punishment so I don't bother with that whole bushing die thing. Theres definitely merit to them but Ive had good enough luck with what Ive been doing that I haven't felt the need to change.

 

[bschneiderheinze]

It looks to me like competition dies are setup to line the bullet up straighter. What is the easy button. I have reloaded plenty of extremely accurate ammo Im just looking for consistency for long range.

Thank you for the comments

 

[bschneiderheinze]

Ive shot plenty of groups like that at 100 with " those crappy green box dies" but at 600 and maybe 1000( when I get the chance) they seem to open up.

Ive got competition sets for most of the calibers I shoot except 308. For my 308 Ive just got a regular green box set of dies mainly because the forster micrometer set I want has been MIA for the last year or so it seems. With that said my 308 is a hammer with loads made off those "crappy" dies. Just shot these two sub half moa groups with rounds made with powder thrown from a chargemaster, in "crappy" hornady brass, using "crappy" green box rcbs dies, those cheap ass amax bullets and basically stock R700 5R. I must be doing something wrong

Personally I like the rcbs competition seater die set as they use an elevated shell holder and the die has a bullet window in the side so you just drop the bullet in and seat. Much easier, but I also like the ability to use my nice dies on my progressive press as well which wont work with the rcbs competition dies since I cant put the elevated shell holder in the turret. Ive used pretty much all the nicer dies out there and they don't do anything better than the $90 set of forster micrometer dies. Im not a glutton for punishment so I don't bother with that whole bushing die thing. Theres definitely merit to them but Ive had good enough luck with what Ive been doing that I haven't felt the need to change.

 

[1slow01z71]

Ive taken those loads out to 1000 before and my vertical spread was about 8". My horizontal spread was quite a bit wider due to my crappy wind calling. I notice no difference in runout between my forster micrometer dies and my rcbs dies in 300wm with 208 amaxs. The 300wm has a notoriously short neck especially for the size bullets that are ran in it and my runout is the same if not better with the green box rcbs.

The micrometer is just nice to adjust COL without having to bust loose the lock ring. The telescoping sleeve is nice for aligning the bullet but if you just pay attention when using the regular dies youll get the same result. I think the accuracy stuff has more to do with attention to detail rather than buying the absolute best equipment. If I was shooting benchrest competition I might go through the other motions but Id rather spend less time reloading and more time at the range. Ill get a lot more accurate learning to read wind better than extra time on the reloading bench.

 

[bschneiderheinze]

How can you pay more attention when seating a bullet. I try to get them as straight as possible but it would seam the die should keep them straight regardless.

 

[918v]

It does. But the bullet does not enter the case straight. An old trick is to seat the bullet partially, then spin the case 180 degreed and finish seating.

 

[1slow01z71]

Just making sure the bullet is aligned well and riding it up into the bottom of the seating die with your finger. Ive noticed a little resistance when I had a bullet fall over where the boat tail caught on the case mouth so it didn't completely fall off the brass. Maybe the die aligned it before seating but maybe scratched the jacket a little? I don't know regardless with rcbs cheapo dies my hornady runout gauge is always less than 3 thousandths, usually around 1 thousandth to 2. That's plenty good enough for me.

 

[bschneiderheinze]

1 to 2 thousands is plenty for me also, thats very accurate. What about neck sizing vs fl with min shoulder bump

 

[bschneiderheinze]

Thank you 918v sounds like a good tip

 

[1slow01z71]

1 to 2 thousands is plenty for me also, thats very accurate. What about neck sizing vs fl with min shoulder bump

I FL size but use a comparator to set it up to bump the shoulders back a thousandth. Some do the chamber in the gun method until the bolt closes with just a little resistance but the comparator method is easier IMO plus its kinda hard to do that method on ARs so Id need the comparator set anyway.

 

[rw496]

I just started using the Redding micrometer and I am real impressed. I need to seat say .012 deeper..dial it up and dead nuts .012 deeper. Plus, I was using regular Hornady dies before and was getting runout in the .005 area, but with the Redding every round was less than .001

 

[dabibbee]

I use Forster Ultra Competition dies for all my loads. .000 to .002. Runout. They are the best I have ever used, however my shooting buddy uses Redding Competition dies and gets the same results.

 

[jim_k]

The Redding dies will not consistently seat a bullet against a compressed powder charge, but the Forster will. Scratches on the side of the bullet jacket don't affect anything. When you set up the standard type die, keep the die body backed off about the width of a nickel, so you are not using the die's crimping section. When you screw the die into the press, put a thick washer on top of the press ram, so that when you screw the die down against the ram/washer combo, the die is "square" to the ram. Of course, let the ram back off as the die seats against the top of the press frame. Also do that thing 918v mentioned about seating just a tiny bit, then turning the case and finishing the seating. One other good thing about the Forster die is that the bullet seating collet (the part that pushes on the top of the bullet) appears to be angled so that there is less jacket deformity during seating. That doesn't matter, but it looks better. Also, for best accuracy, sort the cases based on seating pressure, and pair those with light seating pressure, to use at long range. They will be the best ones.
Jim

 

[BuzzBoss915]

I would like to correct any impression that comp. micrometer seating dies will solve run out. It's a method for accurately seating your bullets in relation to the rifling. And, not the only way, but a convenient way.

For me, when concerned with accuracy in a particular rifle, I use chamber type seating dies. I verify my hand loads with a cartridge spinner and a precision gauge and find that runout ceases to be a factor. It doesn't always mean that my accuracy is perfect, but it does eliminate one variable. Yes, it's slow and, (I'm sure) progressive reloaders won't be impressed. BB

 

[shoot4fun]

My Hornady 6 Creedmoor seater has the sleeve that is designed to minimize runout but it has the worst runout of any die I have ever used.
I was lucky in that the redding 243 Comp seater I have works for the 6CM.
BB is right. The High dollar comp/micrometer seaters don't necessarily reduce runout but they are convenient for accurate bullet seating depth.