Gunsmithing How important is DRO on a lathe

[SSC]

Looking at the PM1236 vs the PM1340. I can get the 1236 with the DRO for about the same as I can get the 1340 without. having never messed with a lathe how import do you think the DRO function is? I have used DROs on other tools and they are very very handy for repetitive functions but not sure how that applies to gunsmithing lathes.

PM1236 PM1340

 

[Keith Johns]

Re: How important is DRO on a lathe

If you're saying you can get a lesser lathe with DRO, or a better lathe without, for the same price.... get the better lathe without DRO.

Smiths do just fine without it.

 

[300sniper]

Re: How important is DRO on a lathe

i wouldn't buy another lathe without a dro or at least without having plans of immediately adding one. i want one bad but am not sure if i want to invest in one for the machine i have now since i don't know how much longer i will have it.

 

[E. Bryant]

Re: How important is DRO on a lathe

My preference would certainly be to get the correct machine now, because it's a lot easier to add a DRO later than it is to move out your old machine and move in a new one.

 

[PCR]

Re: How important is DRO on a lathe

I went through this issue when buying mine. Enco or Jet with DRO, or Kent USA without. I bought the Kent from Quality Machine Tools and very happy that I did.

 

[BBeyer]

Re: How important is DRO on a lathe

I much prefer trav-a-dials over DROs and they are generally cheaper.

 

[Millennium200]

Re: How important is DRO on a lathe

If you have a lot of lathe time the dials work fine. But if you are new to the lathe the DRO is a life saver.

 

[WhiteDingo]

Re: How important is DRO on a lathe

I've never missed having a DRO. Sure, it could be nice, but I don't feel it's at all necessary if you're comfortable with your machine.

As others have said, if it's a question of a better lathe without, or a lesser lathe with, get the better machine.

Just my $.02

 

[Clark]

Re: How important is DRO on a lathe

I have worked on a Jet 13x40 without DRO 2000 to present
I have had a Clausing 5914 without DRO 2003 -20010
I have had an Atlas 12x36 without DRO 2006- present
I have had PM1236 with DRO 2010- present

I will not buy any more machines without DRO.

It is like a microwave in the kitchen, you can do fine without it, but once you have it, you are spoiled.

 

[AJ_Goddard]

Re: How important is DRO on a lathe

I would buy the better lathe as digitals can be added. After saying that I do make my living on my machines and I would add the digital soon after. It just makes life so much easier knowing what diameter and depth you are at just with a glance up at the digital. No stoping and measuring or calculating the dials. I can hit a button and work in metric at any time. I would also look at the Acu-Rite, they make a model just for the lathe that you can set up to 10 tools in the memory. I have tools loaded up in Aloris holders and ready to go with zeros on each. I get paid for the work produced not by the hour, I need to kick the jobs out quickly, efficently and most of all accurately. My digital has paid for it's self many times over.

 

[Keith Johns]

Re: How important is DRO on a lathe

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Clark</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
I will not buy any more machines without DRO.
</div></div>

DRO is nice.


But the OPs question is whether or not to get a lesser quality/size lathe WITH DRO, or the better/heavier lathe without.

That is a no brainer.





Id rather have tailstock DRO than DRO on "X" and "Z". For chambering.

 

[turbo54]

Re: How important is DRO on a lathe

Agreed, this is a no brainer. Buy the bigger/better machine now. However, immediately start saving for the DROs.

To me, the BIGGEST advantage to the DRO is when you reverse direction on one of the dials. Unless you have a ridiculously nice machine with ball-screws instead of ACME lead screws, there is always lash, and the instant you reverse your dial, you are introducing a loss of precision. The glass scales for a DRO are simply not afflicted by this.

DROs are an invaluable asset no machine should be without. With them, you make better parts, faster....period.

 

[Keith Johns]

Re: How important is DRO on a lathe

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: turbo54</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
DROs are an invaluable asset no machine should be without. With them, you make better parts, faster....period. </div></div>


Hey now. Thats a big leap.



Maybe after spending another $50,000 on everything else we need, we'll get DRO on our lathe. Until then, I'll continue to hit my numbers just fine without it and I do not feel my work would improve with it. I could just do it while paying less attention

I say buy the bigger/better machine, then start saving for the thousands in toolings and everything else you need. Learn to kick ass without DRO, then get it one day in the far off future.

 

[Clark]

Re: How important is DRO on a lathe

I have the PM1236
My brother has the Jet 13x40.

They are much the same design, with lots of interchangeable parts.

There is nothing for gunsmithing that I have seen that can't get done on the smaller machine, just as fast.

Here is a video I made of chips flying off the PM1236
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ypEwD5eZqkc

Here is a better video of a PM1236 that Matt made
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EJb8pHmjgzk

 

[hero's machine]

Re: How important is DRO on a lathe

I would save my cash and do it all at once, or buy the heaviest lathe you an swing and add it later. I have had 2 lathes w/o dro and I have no plans to go back now that I have drank the kool aid. it is nice being able to fly around and not have to stop to look, plus the dro measures in .0001

 

[lvcatfish]

Re: How important is DRO on a lathe

I would buy with the DRO pre installed. Installation and adjustment/calibration is not a trivial task. I will be adding a DRO to my lathe and have been reading about the install requirements. After thinking a little and comparing prices they pretty much seem to mostly charge for the "parts" when installed from the factory. I have run lathes with and without DRO's. Once you have run a machine with a quality DRO that is accurate and repeatable you will not want to go back. If $ is that big of an issue then forgo the DRO; lots of good things have been built without them. They are a production side convenience as far as I am concerned; but they are damn nice to have when they are set up right.

 

[eddieharren]

Re: How important is DRO on a lathe

It appears that those who have DRO's would rather not go back to working without them and those who have never used one don't see the need.

 

[DAVETOOLEY]

Re: How important is DRO on a lathe

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: DocEd</div><div class="ubbcode-body">It appears that those who have DRO's would rather not go back to working without them and those who have never used one don't see the need. </div></div>

I'd say your correct. I've thought several times about adding a DRO to at least one of my manual lathes but now I chamber almost exclusively on my Haas TL-1 and it does the thinking for me. I'd pass on the DRO and spend the money on a better machine. Money spent on a better quality equipment is never wasted. A 2" travel indicator with a magnetic base works just as well and almost as fast. Also nothing says that these lighter machines will take off exactly what you dial in. Many times the accuracy varies with the depth of cut.

 

[bigngreen]

Re: How important is DRO on a lathe

I going with the PM 12x36 with DRO, if you look at the difference between the two machines its quite significant, the smaller one has double the speeds, quick change tool post and DRO for the same money as a plain 13x40. I don't think there is a quality difference just a couple inches is all.

 

[cal50]

Re: How important is DRO on a lathe

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BBeyer</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I much prefer trav-a-dials over DROs and they are generally cheaper. </div></div>

+1 on what he said.

The trav-a-dial is the best add on short of a DRO. As an apprentice years back everything was with dials. Learning to deal with backlash and hitting your mark was everything. When the 1st trav-a-dial hit the shop floor it was similar to sliced bread and toilet paper. We later added on Anilam DRO's which made life a lot easier and faster.

I would buy the best machine available in your price range and the DRO or trav-a-dial can always be added on.

The machine is #1.

 

[300sniper]

Re: How important is DRO on a lathe

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Keith at PCR</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Clark</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
I will not buy any more machines without DRO.
</div></div>

DRO is nice.


But the OPs question is whether or not to get a lesser quality/size lathe WITH DRO, or the better/heavier lathe without.

That is a no brainer.





Id rather have tailstock DRO than DRO on "X" and "Z". For chambering. </div></div>


did he say that just because one lathe was smaller, it was of lesser quality? a smaller lathe may have featurs that are more desireable to some people, especially if they are putting it into a garage or don't stay at one location very long.

and personally, i'd rather have a dro on x and z and not even use the tailstock at all.

 

[Keith Johns]

Re: How important is DRO on a lathe

Machine weight means a lot. Personally Id get the heaviest machine I could afford(within certain brands of course). I looked at the machines specs and my opinion stands. There are things about machines you cant tell from the internet. Often times the heavier model will have nicer gear changes, even a better gearbox. Just little things that end up making a huge difference in the feel of the machine.
The bigger machine comes with a foot brake. The smaller one you have to get the more expensive package to get it.

I bet the quality difference is very noticeable.



Just curious, what machines do you have experience on sniper? You were some sort of machinist or engineer I take it?


There was no reason for me to quote Clark.
Clark, wasn't tryin to disagree with ya or make it seem that way.

 

[bigngreen]

Re: How important is DRO on a lathe

Gunsmith work is the epitome light duty work, everything is turned on dead center and for most the heaviest thing we'll swing is an action truing jig. Some of the best still use the Southbends and they are nothing in the heft department, the new one's are shipping at 490 lbs. Some dang fine rifle have been made on the 12x36in lathes!

 

[Keith Johns]

Re: How important is DRO on a lathe

The Southbend that weighs 490lbs has a spindle bore diameter of 0.86" and is 1hp. Ive used one and they're great. But cant be compared to what you can do on a full size lathe in my opinion.
Southbends with spindle bores large enough to run a barrel through weigh over 2,000lbs


Not that you have to run barrels through the headstock. But that seems to be the way now a days and certain things I feel are best done that way.

 

[angelballer]

Re: How important is DRO on a lathe

Heavy 10 is around 1000 lbs and is one of the best manual lathes a gunsmith can use. Weight can be a good thing but when taking light cuts stuff like bearing quality is more important.

 

[AJ_Goddard]

Re: How important is DRO on a lathe

I like a little heft in my machines. It really helps with vibration and yes most barrel work isn't real heavy cuts but I really think the 1340 lathes are about the right size for most gunsmiths. I looked the specs for the two lathes in question and for the $800. more I would of picked the bigger lathe. A 36" lathe is measured as the max distance between centers. Put a 4 jaw chuck on takes away about 6" that leaves maybe 30". That's starting to get tight on length. But I think he'll be perfectly happy with the one he chose. It's great to have a new toy.
AJ

 

[JimT]

Re: How important is DRO on a lathe

I added a DRO to my lathe and have to agree with the getting spoiled statement above. I still use a dial indicator on the tailstock, but the DRO for the X and Y axis is really nice, especially when you are trying to sneak up on something.

 

[Clark]

Re: How important is DRO on a lathe

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: bigngreen</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> Gunsmith work is the epitome light duty work, everything is turned on dead center and for most the heaviest thing we'll swing is an action truing jig. Some of the best still use the Southbends and they are nothing in the heft department, the new one's are shipping at 490 lbs. Some dang fine rifle have been made on the 12x36in lathes! </div></div>
I agree.

Cutting barrel threads and chambers I can to with the 1/5 h.p. 300 pound 12x36 Atlas made in 1938 and worth $500 in minty condition. I have barreled some very accurate rifles with it.

Boring 1.5" holes through lengths of 2"x2" steel blocks bolted together to make barrel vises, can use all of the 3 h.p. 3 phase motor can put out on my 1200 pound Clausing.

The reason I want a big lathe is so I can get the barrel through the hole in the headstock. Otherwise, I have to chamber in the steady rest, which is how I have to do it most of the time in the little Atlas.

 

[Straight Shooter]

Re: How important is DRO on a lathe

The DRO is a real time saver. On firearms we frequently operate in 10th of thousanths and having a DRO is .0002" resolution makes it easy to go right to a spec. On the mill the DRO really shines. We can make up companion flanges seperately and the bolt hole patterns will look as though they were welded together and drilled all at once.

 

[hero's machine]

Re: How important is DRO on a lathe

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Clark</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: bigngreen</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> Gunsmith work is the epitome light duty work, everything is turned on dead center and for most the heaviest thing we'll swing is an action truing jig. Some of the best still use the Southbends and they are nothing in the heft department, the new one's are shipping at 490 lbs. Some dang fine rifle have been made on the 12x36in lathes! </div></div>
I agree.

Cutting barrel threads and chambers I can to with the 1/5 h.p. 300 pound 12x36 Atlas made in 1938 and worth $500 in minty condition. I have barreled some very accurate rifles with it.

Boring 1.5" holes through lengths of 2"x2" steel blocks bolted together to make barrel vises, can use all of the 3 h.p. 3 phase motor can put out on my 1200 pound Clausing.

The reason I want a big lathe is so I can get the barrel through the hole in the headstock. Otherwise, I have to chamber in the steady rest, which is how I have to do it most of the time in the little Atlas.

</div></div>

I sold a very clean 12x36 atlas last month for $2k and had guys lined up for it. They are nice little rigs, but it is nice to be able to make a cut and not have to measure it to see if it flexed the bed. I made enough cash on my old atlas to buy my new pm and hopefully some day the pm will net me a cnc rig, it till then I am very pleased with the upgrade. Another benefit to the heavier lathes is noise....lots less. Chatter is a non issue and being 3 phase I will not get motor noise in my work. If you can do good work on a light lathe, you will do awesome on a heavier one. I think the only down side is chuck changing becomes a lot heavier.....but mass equals accuracy.

 

[Clark]

Re: How important is DRO on a lathe

Threads and reamers are just as fast with a 300 pound lathe, but cutting the tenon and shoulder takes extra time.

Take a fast .020" cut with a 300 pound lathe, measure, take another cut with the cross feed and compound in the same place, .005" more comes off. Do it again, .002" comes off, do it again, .0005" comes off.

The bed-carriage-tool mount- work-spindle-headstock loop is so springy that it takes extra time to sneak up on the cut.

With 1000 pound lathe, it is more like take a fast .020" cut, then go over it slowly with the same adjustments, and .001" more comes off.

-------------------------
I know a gunsmith who bought a used giant lathe. He can only use half of the bed length for gunsmithing, and so just uses the right half of the bed as a storage shelf.
The headstock is too wide to for a barrel to reach through to the spider, so he winds up doing everything in the steady rest, like guys with the little 300 pound lathes with too small a through hole.
He makes some benchrest guns, so his problem is getting a really concentric and smooth outside cut to put in the steady rest.