Advanced Marksmanship How many people here "snap in"?

#51
Re: How many people here "snap in"?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: sinister</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Yup.

There are many, many examples of guys getting assigned overseas (Korea, Iraq, Afghanistan) who kept up with their practice by dry-firing, and on return to the States go into service, nationals, and Olympic trials to make the grade and score to win titles and medals.

Fundamentals reinforcement.

I hadn't shot from August 2002 to spring 2003 when I got back from Iraq. Did hundreds of dry snaps standing with a heavy match M16 in my wife's kitchen aiming at an air rifle target. Came in 20th at the 2003 President's Match at Perry at the end of July with a score of 293-7X of 300. Shot a 200-yard 99 standing; 300 yard prone 95 (five 9s high); and a 600-yard slow fire prone 99.
</div></div>

my buddy got wrote up for doing dryfire practice in the barracks in Iraq
 
#53
Re: How many people here "snap in"?

Also, it can be helpful to have buddy load some zoom caps and live rounds in your gun when you're at the range to make sure you're "dry firing" correctly.
 
#54
Re: How many people here "snap in"?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Supergyro</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Also, it can be helpful to have buddy load some zoom caps and live rounds in your gun when you're at the range to make sure you're "dry firing" correctly. </div></div>How and why, and what would that help?
 
#55
Re: How many people here "snap in"?

I<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Graham</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Supergyro</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Also, it can be helpful to have buddy load some zoom caps and live rounds in your gun when you're at the range to make sure you're "dry firing" correctly. </div></div>How and why, and what would that help?</div></div>
You can see if your dry firing form changes when you have real ammo in so that you are not developing any bad habits from recoil sensitivity. Esp. on larger calibers.
 
#56
Re: How many people here "snap in"?

Did i the last time I zeroed my 700sa. Practiced the night before working on my trigger squeeze. Didn't think of it but in hind sight maybe it did help. Have to start practicing more since it looks like winter is here to stay.
 
#57
Re: How many people here "snap in"?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Supergyro</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Graham</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Supergyro</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Also, it can be helpful to have buddy load some zoom caps and live rounds in your gun when you're at the range to make sure you're "dry firing" correctly. </div></div>How and why, and what would that help?</div></div>
You can see if your dry firing form changes when you have real ammo in so that you are not developing any bad habits from recoil sensitivity. Esp. on larger calibers.</div></div>

You're a little confused about that, ball and dummy drills can help identify a problem with flinching. That's a topic for another thread. I think that may be where Graham was going with his question. At any rate, dry firing has a multitude of benefits, some obvious and some not so obvious. Beside helping the shooter recognize and correct trigger control issues, stamina is developed, as well as muscle memory. Dry firing requires the shooter to essentially rebuild the position, align sights, adjust NPA for desired sight picture, concentrate on front sight, and, of course, follow through for every shot. When the dry fire practice is incorporated to a blind plot and call exercise, alternating with five fire, fhe shooter can record progress, as well as refine zero.
 
#60
Re: How many people here "snap in"?

I snap in to build consistency as well as everything else that's been mentioned. I believe that if the only time you fire your rifle is with live ammunition at the range, you're re-learning how you interact with your weapon every time you send rounds downrange. Snapping in gets you daily contact with your rifle, and ensures that you're doing the same thing naturally without having to think. Muscle memory is how we do complex things easily right? Those that snap in or dry fire, or whatever your term of choice, will almost always be more consistent on the rifle. After all, that's what leads to accuracy!
 
#64
Re: How many people here "snap in"?

I snap in, and it's working!!! the training videos here have been responsible for a huge amount of increase in consistency in my shooting, and likely a lot of the accuracy improvements I've been seeing lately, too...
 
#65
Re: How many people here "snap in"?

.<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: MontanaHick</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I snap in, and it's working!!! the training videos here have been responsible for a huge amount of increase in consistency in my shooting, and likely a lot of the accuracy improvements I've been seeing lately, too...</div></div>

You have discovered what I believe is most important to getting the best results. The immediate need is for sight alignment and trigger control; but, recognizing the bullet needs to get out of the bore with consistent recoil resistance, controlling the rifle with a consistent follow through becomes the number one thing to shooting excellence. Developing motor memory to build the position consistently is what snapping in is all about. Champion shooters in any arena do this all day every day for most every day of year. It's why it's difficult for amateurs to compete with professionals, nevertheless, some do. When picture memory is built simultaneously with motor memory, awesome results with iron sights, even at long range, rivaling the best results with optics, are possible.
 
#66
Re: How many people here "snap in"?

I think dry fire is valuable, but I do find that it can be hard to do with precision rifles, depending on the area you have available to use. Maybe some of you guys have bigger houses, but I find that it is tough to find a distance I can focus at within my house. If I lay on the floor and aim out my front door I can get focus on targets to 50-100 yards, but there's obviously some issues with doing that in the modern world in suburbia.

I can certainly practice getting into position, and remembering how my trigger releases, but focusing on a specific "target" for dry fire practice isn't so easy at home. I know there is a product sold for this purpose that goes on the end of the scope and allows for a short distance focus, but I haven't picked one of these up.
 
#67
Good question. I like to snap in before a match or training session to help get the bones and ligaments loosened up for the positions. dry firing also has helped my offhand game over the years. I also have an Anchutz 2002 CA that i shoot competitively and since the pellet travels about 1100 fps, it is critical to have good trigger control and follow-through. I believe in dry firing for several sessions before a match because it also lets me make minor corrections to my position or equipment while in the yard or on the floor instead of wasting valuable shooting time on the range doing this. Once in a while a coat wears out and I get a new one, or a new sling. It is imperative to snap in with them enough to be able to let the cordura (or leather) settle in and have the body "memory" remember how they fit, how tight or loose, etc. I also believe in a well documented Data Book. another tool from your boot camp days. I was on Parris Island in 1970 and back in 75-77 as a DI in 3rd Bn. Same principles from then apply to now. Was in Iraq 2005-2007 and was known to snap-in daily.

Semper Fi
Will
(USMC GySgt (former)
SF SGM (ret)
 
#68
I snap in regularly. I keep my 22 trainer in the living room by the door with an o-ring in the action to keep the firing pin from taking too much of a beating.
It can be a bit of a conversation piece for those who are not used to seeing a rifle within such easy reach.

I mainly do 4 position practice and shoot targets for the rimfire comp in this forum.
 
#70
For my AR with irons I put a shoot and see 'dot' (the ones you use to cover up your bullet holes) on the wall like 10/15 feet away and practice dry firing from the seated and prone concentrating on breathing and making sure that the muzzle doesn't move and I stay on target when I pull the trigger. Pain in the ass/nice thing, depending how you look at it, is after each shot I have to break position to pull the charging handle back and then reacquire my position.

For my bolt guns I do something similar with my .22 trainer, or sling up and use my full sized rifle in both the seated and prone using a reduced target at the end of the hallway focusing on holding the position without strain (you learn a lot about how shit your position is after a few minutes), bolt manipulation, eye relief, breathing and finding that right time to fire in my rhythm.
 
#72
The 500 yard range is an hours drive. Dryfire is down the stairs, from inside the house outside the lower patio doors at little rocks that I imagine as the steel targets at our matches. Seated, kneeling and offhand usually. Prone is seldom done as the other positions are harder for me.
 
#74
Im confused on how you get back from a deployment to Iraq in the spring of '03 when the war started in march of the same year? Were the barracks the buddy got in trouble in built immediately after we crossed over? On topic, I think dry firing is one of the best forms of marksmanship training. I don't dry fire enough.
 
#79
tmcelrath said:
arcticshooter, what are you using for targets with the IOTA? How do you know you scaled them down correctly?
Click to expand...

I have various targets converted to PDF format and just play with the % size print out until it "feels" the right size.

I have sized out our monthly match targets to simulate 500 and 1,000 yards. Exact science? No, but it is close enough.

My IOTA seems to work best at around 10 or 12 power - any more and its a bit too dark, so "mil-ing" the target for correct size won't quite work.

As for the OP - never served in the Corps, but the visual of a bunch of guys in a circle pointing guns at one-another seems a bit disturbing.
 
#80
djskit said:
As for the OP - never served in the Corps, but the visual of a bunch of guys in a circle pointing guns at one-another seems a bit disturbing.
Click to expand...

LOL! That's nothing. We actually pointed our weapons and shot at eachother! Blanks, of course, but if the idea of snapping in while pointing towards eachother would disturb you, well, let's just say you'd have to get over it in a hurry ;)
 
#81
I "snap in" as well but need to work in other positions to keep up. It almost becomes a routine on its own if you take it seriously, an if not it gives me an excuse to take stuff out of the safe:)
 
#82
I snap in with a revolver in double action only every day until my trigger finger can barely pull the trigger anymore. makes shooting any other guns trigger a breeze, with rifle I only snap in a couple times a week for 15-20 minutes and work on NPA at same time.
this really improved my marksmanship.
cheers.
 
#83
been practicing dry firing alot lately as i decided to get serious about shooting and take it from a past time to a hobby (150 round of 338lap in one session is rough lol) but im hoping all the time behind the trigger at home practicing follow through and even the pistol work will help me in the long range game.
 
#86
I still love the process of snapping in. It borders on meditation. If one of the mathematically gifted Hiders can help on proper target scaling, I think a number of us would appreciate a guideline.
I'm hoping to start into Service Rifle once I'm home and will be setting up a snap-in lane in the basement and proper target size would be great.

Not only does snapping in help with trigger control, but for positional shooting it's almost mandatory as a means of stretching out the muscles and ligaments/tendons, especially for us older folks who can't accept that we're not kids anymore.
 
#87
LongArm said:
I agree with what has been stated above and I am going to start doing a lot more of it.
Click to expand...

^^^This. I was playing wind games last Sunday. I had a nice 10-shot group in a 600-yd plate. 8-shots in a nice flat line about an inch high and 2 flyers, low, caused by faulty gun handling. I think that dry firing will address that issue. So I will do it. Thanks for the pointer!
 
#88
bogeybrown said:
...If one of the mathematically gifted Hiders can help on proper target scaling, I think a number of us would appreciate a guideline.
I'm hoping to start into Service Rifle once I'm home and will be setting up a snap-in lane in the basement and proper target size would be great.
Click to expand...

H/R = SH/D
Solve for SH = (H/R) x D
H=height of target your simulating
R=range your simulating
D= actual distance to your target
SH= actual height to use for your target

For example: You want to simulate a 36" gong on a 1000 yard range, but the distance in your basement is only 50ft.
h=36" target
R=1000 yards (convert to feet 3000 ft) *convert to retain common denominators, don't forget!*
D=50ft

(36/3000) x 50 = .6" target

I know someone out there is bound to doubt the new guys math so feel free to use your ranging reticles to verify :rolleyes:
 
#89
You would have to work out the scaling and it all depends if you think in imperial or metric, but going to a 1000cm scales a bit easier for me. Of course all of it is relative to what you are most comfortable with in your experience.

Unfortunately for me, since we started a family, the wife gets a little upset when I do dry fire exercises in the house. Though I have set up some painted ping pong balls hanging from strings in the garage for pistol dry fire, but I am for the moment space prohibited in there for the moment on really proning out (6 gallons of crap in a 5 gallon bucket)
 
#90
Back in my twenties I saved for a year to buy a Springfield M1A basic model and a standard military sling. Having no military or police training (or ANY formal training for that matter) I relied totally on the Army's M14 marksmanship manual, which I studied endlessly (it's all I had). I had decided I was going to enter a local DCM match that was coming up in a few months.

I began to dry fire in my living room. I worked on all the positions, learned to sling up and ordered exactly enough rounds for the match, plus twenty rounds. I could barely afford that. An old guy named Wimpy had a reloading business and sold me 168 gr BTHP's for the match.

Starting with no high-powered rifle experience, no competition experience, a brand new rifle, and only twenty live rounds to practice with, I went out and took 2nd place in what they called then "masters unclassified" up against 17 people. Dry firing was all I had, but it was enough to make a pretty decent showing first time out.
 
#91
Capt Beach said:
So how many snap in? Or practice on a 1000 inch range?

Its a holdover from my USMC days..."Snap in", "Snappin In" slow steady dry fire to perfect/hone the basics...the week before every Marine goes to the range for "qual" they spend a week or so with mandatory practice, usually on a 55 gal barrel painted white with rows and rows of targets painted on in black to simulate the 200/300/500 yd targets...the barrel affords dozens of Marines sitting around in a large circle shooting at the barrel in the center...all positions are practiced...offhand, kneeling, sitting and prone.

When I started shooting long gun again (bolts, not M14's) I got some targets shrunk them way down and set up a 1000 inch practice range where I spend a couple of hours a week prone working on sight alignment, sight picture, breathing, trigger control and follow thru (bolting)...my aim is to put hundreds more rounds (imaginary) downrange without the expense of ammo...yes live firing is extremely important but I saw my improvement soar to levels not seen in decades..maybe it was all just coming back to me...

So...how many practice dry fire to continually hone there skilz?
Click to expand...

All the time. Especially since I don't have much time to go to the range, I don't want it to be a waste and disappointment when I do. The practice helps for when I finally get to go to the range and then it translates on hunts etc..
 
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