Gunsmithing How much Devcon?

[jeff89]

I'm about to bed my first rifle and I was wondering how much Devcon do I need? MidwayUSA sells a 2 oz package and a 1 lb package. Can I get away with the 2oz package? It would suck to run out right at the end... The rifle is a Remington 700 long action if it matters.

I'm also going to need to buy some pillars as I don't have easy access to a lathe. Any recomendations?

I'd love to get a HS Precision stock for my new hunting rifle, but until funds allow I'll have to make due with the crappy factory synthetic stock that came with it...

Thanks!

 

[Scimitar]

Re: How much Devcon?

Buy a 1 lb kit. APA makes a nice set for 10.00 bucks.

 

[The Mechanic]

Re: How much Devcon?

APA? got a link?

 

[jeff89]

Re: How much Devcon?

Here ya go. Looks good!

http://www.americanprecisionarms.com/catalog/index.php?cPath=5&page=3

 

[fcordrey]

Re: How much Devcon?

+1 for APA's pillar set .

Just got three sets from them not long ago .

 

[LRI]

Re: How much Devcon?

 

[phillik747]

Re: How much Devcon?

tag

 

[okiefired]

Re: How much Devcon?

Are you sure the stock you have wasn't made by HS Pre.?

okie

 

[LRI]

Re: How much Devcon?

FWIW it's been long understood in engineering circles that aluminum and epoxy don't make very good bed fellows. It doesn't work well in airplanes, cars, or GUNS.

The reasons are many. Just do a google search. Get a cup of coffee and a pillow for your butt as you'll be reading for awhile. a valium might help too as some of the reading is quite dry.

What you'll discover is there is a reason to use alternative materials. This is why I only use SS pillars that I manufacture myself.

Good luck.

C

 

[AXEMAN]

Re: How much Devcon?

also, dont get the 2oz tubes of devcon. its a pretty thin 1:1 mixture and i dont think its as strong as the devcon 10110 aluminum steel or titanium putty that you see in the 1 pound quantities. it will not hold a peak at any point in its cure. its not the same as the 1 pound devcon

 

[yoterunner]

Re: How much Devcon?

Tag, Chad will be getting some pillars down the road!

 

[AXEMAN]

Re: How much Devcon?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: C. Dixon</div><div class="ubbcode-body">FWIW it's been long understood in engineering circles that aluminum and epoxy don't make very good bed fellows. It doesn't work well in airplanes, cars, or GUNS.

The reasons are many. Just do a google search. Get a cup of coffee and a pillow for your butt as you'll be reading for awhile. a valium might help too as some of the reading is quite dry.

What you'll discover is there is a reason to use alternative materials. This is why I only use SS pillars that I manufacture myself.

Good luck.



C </div></div>

no disrespect at all, but then all the guys with aluminum V blocks in their HS stocks are gonna be in trouble. also devcon has a mix with aluminum in the epoxy i think, that might be safe to use

 

[LRI]

Re: How much Devcon?

<span style="font-style: italic">"Remember, men will bet their lives on the work you do."</span>
-Phillip Newsom <span style="font-style: italic">Assistant to the chief of design for Pratt&Whitney
</span>


("No disrespect. . .")

None taken! All I'm saying is this:

Go talk to an aerospace engineer that deals in composites and structural materials in airframes.

What does an airplane and a gun have in common?

1. Airplanes vibrate, so do guns.
2. Airplanes operate in extreme changes of environment, so do the real tactical rifles.


Aluminum oxidizes almost instantly after being machined, cut, whatever. About the only way a perfect bond can be achieved is by using an artificial atmosphere that'll displace O2 or by creating a vacuum. This would be one of the primary reasons why aluminum can be a challenge to weld. It must be absolutely free of all foreign contaminates/atmospheres in order for the joint to be permanently bonded.

The other scenario in this is vibration. I forget the exact term/condition but when aluminum vibrates it erodes a glued joint. It's a very difficult condition to detect and takes very expensive/sophisticated equipment to prove, but it does happen. This would by why the newer commercial jets with composite wings don't use aluminum for joiners and spars, they use titanium. You still get the weight savings, while ensuring a permanent joint/bond.

I've never built, nor will I ever build, a rifle on an aluminum bedding block, pillar, ect. I realize many do and the guns shoot just fine. I'm not saying anything bad or derogatory about them. I AM saying that it's a proven, documented, engineering fact that aluminum (any aluminum)is a challenging material to use for an adhesive joint. To argue or ignore is an insult to every guy/woman out there who suffered through the courses at the better schools to earn an ME degree.

(FWIW I am nothing more than a high school graduate, but I know when to open the ears and close the pie hole)

As a business owner I get to make the choices in how things are done in my little world. I've built and used rifles that have seen service in various theaters around the world. The last thing I'm ever going to be faced with is knowing some poor bastage went home in a box because something I did went wrong and got him killed. Tactical rifles are not target guns with a coat of black paint. Not in my shop anyway.

I choose to use 303 stainless as it has a very high tolerance to acids, alkalies, and water. It also has sufficient tensile and compression strength to tolerate the loads produced by a 1/4" diameter screw.

That is all.

 

[bulletbill]

Re: How much Devcon?

Nice ad.

 

[AXEMAN]

Re: How much Devcon?

they do make a devcon with stailness as a metal base as well as the titanium and aluminum. i see what you are saying. my only thought is that with the pillar being bedded in the epoxy its held there using the stock as a form so to speak, where the airframe applications are a different form of mechanical joint. but i hear what your saying about the physics of the two items used in the joint.

my concern was as i begin to prep for an aluminum V block bedding job, i just didnt want another element of worry added. i was afrair epoxy ate aluminum or some other catastrophic news

 

[Oddball Six]

Re: How much Devcon?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: AXEMAN</div><div class="ubbcode-body">they do make a devcon with stailness as a metal base as well as the titanium and aluminum. i see what you are saying. my only thought is that with the pillar being bedded in the epoxy its held there using the stock as a form so to speak, where the airframe applications are a different form of mechanical joint. but i hear what your saying about the physics of the two items used in the joint.

my concern was as i begin to prep for an aluminum V block bedding job, i just didnt want another element of worry added. i was afrair epoxy ate aluminum or some other catastrophic news </div></div>

No, and he is right, in many applications, aluminum is hard as heck to adhere to. When patching an aicraft skin, for example they often have to use compounds and extra external patching material to cover up the adhesive joints.

Remember that oxidising requires one thing... oxygen!

You cant oxidise without oxygen, so in a skim bed that has been properly covered by the epoxy, the epoxy is covering substantial portions of the aluminum block and thus a substantial portion of that surface is unable to oxidize once covered.

If this were a situation where I were depending on the epoxy to hold aluminum to something else to save my life maybe I would be nervous. IN this case, the epoxy compound itself is a type of surface to surface filler, not really an intended bonding agent. In gun applications, things like devcon are ideal as they are complex epoxies which often include substances in the epoxy itself to provide for a more supportive / harder mixture as well as engineered to bond with aluminum.

As an aside, Devcon's intended-for-the-purpose putties actually meet milspec specifications.

http://www.devcon.com/techinfo/milspec.pdf