I have a manual powder trickler, but it seems to be my stall point on reloading rifle ammo. How much does something like a chargemaster improve things?
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how much does a powder trickler help?
- Thread starter devildog93
- Start date
The single best item you will buy in your reloading setup. This is my ATV3, which I personally like better than my ATV4.
I had the Chargemaster Lite. My reloading sped up a lot once it broke and I went back to manual trickling. YMMV.
"Help" is relative. What kind of shooting do you load for? What sort of scale do you have? How many digits to the right of the decimal point? Do you need to go a little faster or a lot faster? How much accuracy do you want and can afford?
My original scale was a Ohous 1010 - still have it. Then a Denver Instruments Accurate Load 4 - still have it. Then another Denver Instruments accurate to 0.02 grains but with a load cell. It never comes out of the box, I don't recommend it but I will make you a real good deal on it. Now I have a Sartorius scale.
I had a completely manual trickler - slow and I frequently overshot my target weight. Then I bought one of these - the Dandy is faster and fewer overthrows, I still have it. Then I bought a Chargemaster, faster yet, but still had a few overthrows and precision was not what I hoped for, I sold it. Now I have an Autotrickler - more money but the precision can be clearly seen on the targets and it is fast, I have V3 parts. If you can afford it and you are loading for long range, this (or a Prometheus) is the way to go. If budget is a problem, a good digital scale and the dandy trickler worked well. If you can manage the price I think the chargemaster is a good compromise.
I am not yet competing in anything, but preparing at least. I have a lyman brass Smith powder charge loader and frequently have to go over and over charging. If I could stop the constant back and forth on the charging it would save some time.
I am going to be loading match bullets for 223 and 308 and just think the charging method im using is the sticking point. I was looking at the rcbs supreme, but haven't looked around enough to be set on a brand.
An automated scale removes your time from the process. That alone is worth it.
Granted, if you don’t do anything else while it’s throwing powder then I guess you would just sit there with a thumb up your ass and remove any time saved but if you seat while it’s throwing the next charge then you just made up a bunch of time.
Granted, if you don’t do anything else while it’s throwing powder then I guess you would just sit there with a thumb up your ass and remove any time saved but if you seat while it’s throwing the next charge then you just made up a bunch of time.
Speed. The V4 is significantly slower. As you try to increase the speed of the V4, it tends to overthrow. The V3 is on point...
For years I used a teacup with powder in it, a sugar spoon, a Dillon beam scale and an RCBS trickler for precision rifle rounds and then I found God in 2005 and bought a CM 1500.
Chris
If in help you mean speed, an auto-dropper of some type should help.
There are many ways to skin the cat as they say, these days more than ever. If you only need to be within 0.1gr then there are a bunch of them for ~$240 or less these days: Chargemaster Lite, FA, Lyman, etc.
If you need to be more precise (+/- 0.02gr) you'll need an Auto-Trickler (AT3 or AT4) or a Matchmaster and it'll cost more to get there.
That said, if you have a good scale with 0.02gr resolution and aren't put off by using ball powder... an old fashioned volumetric dropper (like your Brass Smith) and manual trickler can allow you to load to +/- 0.02gr and can be as fast, or faster, than an AT once you get your technique together. In fact, StaBall can be dropped to within +/- 0.05gr without even touching a trickler once you've got a good technique dialed.
There are many ways to skin the cat as they say, these days more than ever. If you only need to be within 0.1gr then there are a bunch of them for ~$240 or less these days: Chargemaster Lite, FA, Lyman, etc.
If you need to be more precise (+/- 0.02gr) you'll need an Auto-Trickler (AT3 or AT4) or a Matchmaster and it'll cost more to get there.
That said, if you have a good scale with 0.02gr resolution and aren't put off by using ball powder... an old fashioned volumetric dropper (like your Brass Smith) and manual trickler can allow you to load to +/- 0.02gr and can be as fast, or faster, than an AT once you get your technique together. In fact, StaBall can be dropped to within +/- 0.05gr without even touching a trickler once you've got a good technique dialed.
I don’t mean to hijack your thread devildog, but there’s too much good information in it for me to start a similar thread.
I recently got my reloading room set up again, got remarried three years ago, and very quickly drove my wife nuts by dropping powder with my old 1st gen Lyman DPS which has a beep that can not be silenced. She made it clear that she never ever wanted to hear the screaming of that lamb….I mean Lyman DPS ever again. I said great, I can fix it by buying a new powder measure, and decided not to point out that if I matched what she spent on clothes this year I could get a Prometheus; she has a good job thank goodness.
Anyway, I was considering a Chargemaster Supreme, but on reading the reviews, I‘m not sure it’s the best choice for my needs. If I wanted a strain gauge scale, I do believe it’s the clear winner for the money, but I’m strongly considering stepping up to the accuracy of a magnetic force restoration scale like the A&D Fx 120i. That and a Dandy Trickler might be a good combination. I could throw a rough charge with my RCBS Uniflow then trickle to accurate charge with the Dandy and scale.
1). Will the vibrations of the Dandy mess with the 120i?
2). It looks like the Autotrickler V3 has a trickler off to the side and the V4 does not, is that correct?
3). How much slower is a V4? Looks like it will drop and measure a charge within 10-15 seconds.
I know the clear answer is a 120i and a V4, but I just can’t swing all that right now. I’m not a match shooter, I load mostly hunting ammo and 223, 308, and 6.5 for play at the range which maxes out at 600 yards. I usually use ball powder like TAC and my Uniflow for range ammo in the first two. I’m building a 6.5 on a Origin and will likely weigh charges for it even though at 600 yards it probably won’t make much of a difference.
If I get a 120i and a Dandy, I could always get a V4 later, but I want to make sure the Dandy and 120i will play together well. In addition, perhaps there’s some other set up I haven’t even considered that someone will post about.
I welcome any other helpful thoughts and ideas.
Thanks!
I recently got my reloading room set up again, got remarried three years ago, and very quickly drove my wife nuts by dropping powder with my old 1st gen Lyman DPS which has a beep that can not be silenced. She made it clear that she never ever wanted to hear the screaming of that lamb….I mean Lyman DPS ever again. I said great, I can fix it by buying a new powder measure, and decided not to point out that if I matched what she spent on clothes this year I could get a Prometheus; she has a good job thank goodness.
Anyway, I was considering a Chargemaster Supreme, but on reading the reviews, I‘m not sure it’s the best choice for my needs. If I wanted a strain gauge scale, I do believe it’s the clear winner for the money, but I’m strongly considering stepping up to the accuracy of a magnetic force restoration scale like the A&D Fx 120i. That and a Dandy Trickler might be a good combination. I could throw a rough charge with my RCBS Uniflow then trickle to accurate charge with the Dandy and scale.
1). Will the vibrations of the Dandy mess with the 120i?
2). It looks like the Autotrickler V3 has a trickler off to the side and the V4 does not, is that correct?
3). How much slower is a V4? Looks like it will drop and measure a charge within 10-15 seconds.
I know the clear answer is a 120i and a V4, but I just can’t swing all that right now. I’m not a match shooter, I load mostly hunting ammo and 223, 308, and 6.5 for play at the range which maxes out at 600 yards. I usually use ball powder like TAC and my Uniflow for range ammo in the first two. I’m building a 6.5 on a Origin and will likely weigh charges for it even though at 600 yards it probably won’t make much of a difference.
If I get a 120i and a Dandy, I could always get a V4 later, but I want to make sure the Dandy and 120i will play together well. In addition, perhaps there’s some other set up I haven’t even considered that someone will post about.
I welcome any other helpful thoughts and ideas.
Thanks!
1. The dandy wont mess up the 120i but it will be 1/4 of the v4 gone.
2. yes, v1 ws just the autotrickler off to the side, v2 was the advent of the autothrow mechanism on top, v3 made it from metal instead of 3d printed, v4 is what you can buy now thats all an in one unit unless shopping on the used market.
3. its not once you get the settings worked out.
Buy the scale now I guess so you have something to load but Id just do the auto throw and ask forgiveness before wasting another 125 on something thats going to only delay the end purchase and be useless after.
2. yes, v1 ws just the autotrickler off to the side, v2 was the advent of the autothrow mechanism on top, v3 made it from metal instead of 3d printed, v4 is what you can buy now thats all an in one unit unless shopping on the used market.
3. its not once you get the settings worked out.
Buy the scale now I guess so you have something to load but Id just do the auto throw and ask forgiveness before wasting another 125 on something thats going to only delay the end purchase and be useless after.
I set the dandy on a on a piece of stiff foam. Might reduce some vibration but also gets it up to a better height. Bought an unused v3 setup so the dandy only gets used for pistol and blackout load workup now. I've seen dandys go for about $60 used if you have to go that route for now.
Just found this thread that has a lot of good info in it:
www.snipershide.com
Short story is, it’s time to order a V4.
Auto Trickler V3 - Is it worth it?
Definitely worth it if you load a lot. However, I have two ChargeMaster Lite’s I will sell you if you want a cheaper option. Posting a for sale offer in a thread is forbidden. Please edit your post, or the ban hammer may fall.
www.snipershide.com
Short story is, it’s time to order a V4.
I have a good powder thrower. I used it with a Dandy and a quality load cell scale for a while. Process: pick up the scale pan, throw 95% of the final charge, set the pan on the scale, trickle to the right number, throw the charge, move the funnel, and repeat.
I set the Dandy next to the scale and on the table top. I set it on something in order to raise it.
This process works best with thrower-friendly powders (ball or flake) and works well with anything that can be thrown including gnarly stick powders - you get to cut a lot of kernels. The Dandy is waaay better than a manual trickler. With a quality scale, overthrows are usually within my tolerance. It is slower and while trickling you can't let your mind wander. That last point is the big seller for an autotrickler - you get a few seconds on mental downtime for each charge and don't have to focus quite so much on process. This adds up when you are doing 50 and 100 round sets.
I set the Dandy next to the scale and on the table top. I set it on something in order to raise it.
This process works best with thrower-friendly powders (ball or flake) and works well with anything that can be thrown including gnarly stick powders - you get to cut a lot of kernels. The Dandy is waaay better than a manual trickler. With a quality scale, overthrows are usually within my tolerance. It is slower and while trickling you can't let your mind wander. That last point is the big seller for an autotrickler - you get a few seconds on mental downtime for each charge and don't have to focus quite so much on process. This adds up when you are doing 50 and 100 round sets.
I'm still using mt PACT setup from the 90's. When I bought it for just under $300 I think, it was a lot of money for me at the time to spend on something "I really didn't need". It was a come to Jesus moment, "Oh good lord, why didn't I do this sooner!?!"
