Sidearms & Scatterguns How much would you pay for a custom 1911?

[Mike_in_FL]

There is an excellent pistolsmith near me. I have been hoping to purchase one from him. I was thinking in today's dollars that this would be up to $4.5k, maybe a little more. However, I have seen one of his pistols for sale through another shop for $7.5k, a new 9mm single stack. Would you be willing to spend that much? That's an awfully nice rifle and glass.

 

[sirhrmechanic]

No.

1911 smithing is not hard. $4.5K for a custom 1911? Seems to me absurd.

Then again, I am cheap.

Buy yourself a nice Colt Gold Cup National Match off Gunbroker for $1,000. And be done. If you want fancy... buy a set of ivory grips for it, to piss off the Eco-Nazis.

Really... there is no 1911 on the planet that is worth $4500. There is REALLY no 1911 on the planet worth $7500.

Wait... I'll take that back. Look at low-serial-number wartime units that have great provenance and were used to execute some Japanese General or something. Very early guns with war provenance... and superb finish... and letters... and leather to go with them... and, well, carried by Alvin York. Yes. There are four-five figure 1911's that have historical provenance.

But gunsmiths trying to sell you on a $7500 1911? Hell, drop me a PM. I'll build you a dead-nuts-reliable and tack driving 1911 for half that. And laugh my ass off at the price. Really.

Just get a GCNM and tell all the 'My effluviam is non-odiforous' smiths wanting that kind of money to go back to selling 1/8 MOA Moisin's or whatever they are selling... and spend the rest on steak, lobster and good IPA.

Cheers,

Sirhr

 

[Milo 2.5]

That decision is yours alone, what do you have now in the form of high end 1911's? It's been 7-8 yrs since I was into 1911's, back then only 2 companies made custom slides and frames, Les Baer and Ed Brown, so based on my knowledge, how can you get 4500 into a pistol, I know but.
So for me, NO, I have Ed Brown, Les Baer, and highest end Kimber's. Owning a Wilson Combat has eluded me over the yrs.
Again, a few yrs back there was a custom 1911 on gun broker, Damascus slide, etc.., looked butt ugly to all but the owner, his description of parts used did not reflect the labor bill either, but your monies.

 

[sirhrmechanic]

Caspian up near me makes some awesome frames and parts, too. I have one of their Titanium frame Officers Models. Amazing quality. Here's some news... for 7500, you can build 8 of them!

Cheers,

Sirhr

 

[sirhrmechanic]

Here's a custom 1911 I built for myself a few years ago. Caspian Titanium frame. All Colt Officers Model electroless Nickel slide parts. Bar-sto custom-made and fitted barrel. Everything on this 1911 is either Titanium or carbon fiber or lightweight parts. Weighs less than a Glock. Tack-driver accurate... typewriter reliable. I think that I had about $800 in it. Including having BarSto do me a custom barrel and bushing.

If you can change a tire, you can build an awesome 1911. Or have someone do it for you. For a lot less than the stupid money being asked-for by some 'smiths.

Cheers,

Sirhr

 

[Mike_in_FL]

No.

1911 smithing is not hard. $4.5K for a custom 1911? Seems to me absurd.

Then again, I am cheap.

LOL, no you're not cheap, I've seen what you buy :}. I was wrong, just checked out the website. Customs start at $5k. I think the reason is the amount of shop time and it's simply do you want to pay for that. To be honest I was quite shocked to see someone asking that price for one of the pistols. I did a search and found some old threads where people were questioning paying close to $3k for Wilsons or whatever but it is several years old. Still out of my price range at $5k.

 

[MosesTheTank]

I also say no. The only thing that may justify that price is some type of ornamentation, which I usually find distasteful. Especially on a 1911. For my best competition 1911 and 2011 I tried to spend every dollar I could by specing the guns every part and even some of the machining, and I still didn't top $4K. If you want someone in FL go see Shay at Akai. He will often make a nice deal. And get a stroked model. [IMG2=JSON]{"data-align":"none","data-size":"full","src":"http:\/\/i.imgur.com\/8h1DCvn.jpg"}[/IMG2]

 

[...]

if im spending $4K on a 1911.......it had better come with $3K worth of engraving

 

[sirhrmechanic]

^^^ THIS!

Cheers,

Sirhr

 

[Veer_G]

¡ Órale !

[IMG2=JSON]{"data-align":"none","data-size":"full","src":"http:\/\/i.imgur.com\/VwDg4kg.png"}[/IMG2]

 

[Mike_in_FL]

This just in, BCM, Bravo Company is selling 1911s. Average price is approximately $3.3k.

 

[Downtown]

The most important thing about a custom, hand built 1911 is the name of the person building it. A pistol built by Richard Hienie, Jason Burton, and only a handful of other smiths are worth the high dollars. Not because they are so much better than a unknown guy, though they probably are. Its because they are recognized as masters in their field, just like artists in any medium. The work will appreciate among a small number of collectors, just like oil paintings. Really nice production guns, like Nighthawk or BCM, can only lose value.

 

[sirhrmechanic]

Of course, you can always get one of these... now for a mere $5.5K!!!!

Cheers,

Sirhr

 

[tnichols]

Guns are a tool and should be treated as such. In a well built 1911, you are looking for 100% reliability and accuracy. The "custom" features that you choose to add should enhance the fore mentioned traits, making it more compatible and comfortable for you to achieve or surpass it's inherent limits. Anything else is just fluff. Nothing wrong with a "BBQ" gun as long as it meets the reliability and accuracy criteria first. Less than 3K will get you this and then some.

 

[MosesTheTank]

The most important thing about a custom, hand built 1911 is the name of the person building it. A pistol built by Richard Hienie, Jason Burton, and only a handful of other smiths are worth the high dollars. Not because they are so much better than a unknown guy, though they probably are. Its because they are recognized as masters in their field, just like artists in any medium. The work will appreciate among a small number of collectors, just like oil paintings. Really nice production guns, like Nighthawk or BCM, can only lose value.

IMHO, this needs a bit of qualification. All of my center fire match rifles and the rifles I actually hunt with are built by Accurate Ordnance and Short Action Customs. I also have several beautiful, traditional, rifles that cost as much as 5X as an AO or SAC. While a Rigby will always command a higher price, is simply beautiful, and you don't have to be a gun guy to recognize the brand, it will never in a million years shoot as well. I can put my Rigby up for sale just about anywhere on the planet and sell it for more than I paid. People who are not interested in ever firing it may buy it as an investment. An AO is known to a much smaller crowd and I definitely will take a loss upon sale (which will never happen, even if I have to sell plasma to put gas in the car).

On match day the podium in any shooting sport, with the exception of maybe shotgunning, is generally taken by guns crafted or tweaked by a different group of smiths than is known outside of that specific competitive crowd. And, quite frankly, a lot of competitive guns are relatively ugly because they get Dremeled or have a file taken to them. I once saw Rob Leatham's 1911 he used for a national championship and it looked like it had been chewed on by an ogre. I do not think he, or the guys that finished just behind him, gave a moments thought to resale value. In this realm performance and absolutely nothing else matters.

I 100% appreciate the artist analogy. I bought my most beautiful guns at a time when I had more romantic notions about guns and hunting (I read a lot of Jack O'Connor and Hemingway as a kid), and I also had more money to spend on nice walnut. The top engravers at Purdey's or Abbiatico & Salvinelli are great artists by any measure. No matter how many $100k+ shotguns I look at I have never ceased to be awed by their beauty. And I once had a stunning Bob Marvel in my collection. It was the first pistol I dropped a lot of coin on, and I bought it largely because of Bob's name. But I would say that the machinists at AO (and LRI, SAC, Marc Soulie, Akai, Matt McLearn, et al) are the hyper precise photo realists of the gun art. I cannot tell you the name of a single smith at the Springfield custom shop, but I have seen their excellent work in action at many matches.

I am equally in awe whether ogling around the Holland & Holland gun room or watching a skilled machinist time a Bartlein or Butler cut a slide. They are all guns of great worth, just two different measures of value. I think the difference in currency is very much worth noting.

I apologize for the rambling. I haven't yet finished my first cup of coffee and sleep was in short supply last night.

 

[Ledzep]

No way I'd even consider 3000+. I could stomach 1500 maybe for an appropriately priced WWI or WWII era military pistol-- I'm a collector geek like that. Me being me, I'd rather read a book, tinker and build it myself at parts cost than pay someone else to do it, especially pay inflated "artistry" or name-association costs unless it was a gift for someone (a fucking important someone at that).

 

[Quarter Horse]

Moses, no apologies are necessary. You expressed many of my feelings accurately. Decoration of weapons is as old as the history of weapons themselves. As in most things, firearms have evolved in both utility, function and form. In side by side shotguns, the delopment of the game gun essentially ended at the beginning of the twentieth century with the British Best Gun achieving a level of perfection that is such that they are built the same today. You used the word beauty to describe British bolt rifles and it certainly is applicable. I would substitute elegance.

Value is only relative as regards the the seller and buyers. Note that buyers is plural. What would one value Alvin Yorks 1911 that he carried when returning the German prisoners to allied lines? Why did a shitbox Henry, with undeniable provenance to Sioux use at multiple locations during the Little Bighorn, bring half a million plus? It's all in the eye of the beholder.

Sir H, I have long admired you sense of history, your efforts to restore various arms and donate them to appropriate collections. As far as 1911s go get a G19. It is a superior firearm for it's purpose but I'm sure you already know that.

 

[craigos]

Go buy a high end Wilson, Nighthawk, Ed Brown - yeah i have a bunch of $1500 1991 - dont compare to the 1911 from these 3 - and they cost anywhere from $3500 to $7500 (this was a centennial special granted). To each his own I guess -

 

[...]

Go buy a high end Wilson, Nighthawk, Ed Brown - yeah i have a bunch of $1500 1991 - dont compare to the 1911 from these 3 - and they cost anywhere from $3500 to $7500 (this was a centennial special granted). To each his own I guess -

doesnt compare in what way?........

 

[Mike_in_FL]

I didn't mean to stir the pot so hard on this one. But I think the opinions are great. It's interesting to me because as I said, we're at AI AT rifle w/ Steiner Military money. I would certainly use whatever I end up buying. I think the reason why one person can ask $5k is that you'll have the pistol in hand within a year. The other custom people seem to be like what Randall is to knives, get on the list and wait. Then again, that's another question, can you justify a $500 knife?

To spin this a little differently then, what is the "provenance" of a low serial number custom? You know who built it, if they have a successful career would it not appreciate in value? I'm seeing people asking $5k for Colt Pythons right now, whether or not they're getting the money I don't know.

 

[Milo 2.5]

doesnt compare in what way?........

Not my place to step in here, buy yourself a few 12-1600 guns, kimbers, springfields, etc.. then run the gauntlet on ammo, from the most expensive to the cheapest and see what feeds in them. Then buy a Wilson Combat, Les Baer, or Ed Brown, do the same thing. 30 minutes into these tests it will become apparent. Now let's talk outright accuracy.

 

[Strykervet]

$7.5k is about what I paid for NIB M2HB semi, NIB with all new parts. Now what it costs to outfit and operate is a shameful secret. $7.5k is about what I paid for NIB KAC SR25, suppressor, scope, mount, bipod, parts, cleaning kit, case, 10 mags, suppressor, PEQ and sling, OR you could buy two SR25's plus the cleaning kit, parts, and maybe even mags. $7.5k is right at what I paid for my DTA HTI in .50BMG not long after they came out (they run more now I know). $7.5k is what my 6cyl., 6speed 2005 Dodge Ram cost new when I bought it cash sale twelve years ago. $7.5k is about what I'll end up paying for a new suppressed McMillan .338 minus optics and extras. $7.5k is three or four really nice KAC or Noveske AR rifles or a two or three very nice scopes.

$450 is what I paid for my G27 about twelve years ago and it's my current carry pistol. With leather, sights and mags it comes to more like $750. I'm not worried about damaging a piece of art nor do I concern myself with it malfunctioning. It doesn't do that. It's accurate enough for my use, which is as a carry pistol or backup to a rifle. Even so, I still carry a backup .357 scandium revolver (at 13oz., how can you NOT justify carrying one?). Wife likes 1911's, but she carries a .357 J frame. She says she can't justify carrying the 1911 but she did buy a limited edition Noveske "Johnny Rifle" along with another SDN6 spur of the moment when I went to buy two other cans, which kinda surprised me. She takes extra care of her Johnny Rifle but knows it'll suffer wear from use. It's a damn nice rifle too I might add.

IF I shot matches, I may consider a high end 1911 where tack driving accuracy is key and carry wear isn't a problem, but it wouldn't cost $7.5k then either. Unless it was 100% engraved by a master, in which case it would probably wind up a wallhanger and not actually used.

 

[Temper]

I'd pay to 5-6k for a 2011 I know I was going to shoot a lot or compete with. I'd never pay more than 2500 for a single stack.

 

[427Cobra]

My Infinity 9/40 Sight Tracker was 6k, paid for it up front in November

 

[MosesTheTank]

I didn't mean to stir the pot so hard on this one. But I think the opinions are great. It's interesting to me because as I said, we're at AI AT rifle w/ Steiner Military money. I would certainly use whatever I end up buying. I think the reason why one person can ask $5k is that you'll have the pistol in hand within a year. The other custom people seem to be like what Randall is to knives, get on the list and wait. Then again, that's another question, can you justify a $500 knife?

To spin this a little differently then, what is the "provenance" of a low serial number custom? You know who built it, if they have a successful career would it not appreciate in value? I'm seeing people asking $5k for Colt Pythons right now, whether or not they're getting the money I don't know.

Mike,

If the pot wasn't stirred, and we all had the same opinion/point of view/background and all of our equipment was designed for the exact same use case, then a lot of us, including me, would not be here. Besides, I prefer stirred pots. Your comment goes to the question of why something costs what it does. This is why some of my pistols cost what they do:

After a lot of years of experimentation I have found what works best for me. I measure this in terms of time and reliability. I know precisely how long a draw takes (be it relaxed arms, from surrender, el presidente...), how long it takes for 98% A zone hit at any given distance, what my double tap and Bill Drill spilts are at those distances, and all of that for weak and strong hand. I have tweaked and tweaked to find the best combination of trigger weight, trigger design, slide weight, slide length, hammer mass, proper undercut, slide serrations, and so on. If I am off on something by a tenth or a hundredth of a second I diagnose it. Sometimes an adjustment to technique makes a difference, sometimes it's gun configuration, sometimes I adjust my reload specs.

To have a gun made to those exacting specs the smith sometimes has to start with an over-sized frame and slide then mill it. Even some small parts need to be filed down to a certain weight or dimension. A 1911 takes no more or less effort to build than a 2011. 427Cobra has an Infinity, some of which I have salivated over. If I wanted to marry all those specs with a visually stunning gun, then I would get an Infinity. And spend another few thousand. I plan on doing this at some point.

That is but one value equation, and I have more than one. Which results in having many reasons for buying guns for different purposes (utility, historical interest, emotional, because it's just plain bad-ass...) and let's me rationalize a collection that never stops growing. I think that this, if nothing else, most of us can agree on.

MTT

 

[Mute]

$4500 would be about the top end of what I'd pay for a custom 1911 from a nationally recognized smith (e.g. Richard Heinie, Jason Burton...etc.) for their full house guns. From someone I don't know. No way.

 

[davere]

I love 1911s... Sadly, I don't own one right now... What follows is my opinion, obviously.

Depending on parts involved, and the purpose of said 1911, you might be into it for $2k in parts alone. Cost to build (or buy, and then do a reliability package on) a 1911 that will "eat anything" doesn't have to be so high, but you're probably in for $1500 once it's all said and done (assuming you have a solid smith do the work and don't do it yourself). Heck, if you buy a Kimber or SA for $800-1k, and then replace all the questionable MIM shit in it yourself, you're still not far off that mark.

If it's a carry gun, you've already spent way too much. You should've bought a Glock, or an M&P, or whatever Tupperware gun you prefer. It's really, really hard to beat a Glock 19 in that regard. If you really have to carry a 1911, my opinion is that you ought to get into it for the lowest price possible that nets you a gun that works 120% of the time. Because you're going to lose it if you have to use it (well, in many places, it's effectively lost, anyway, once it's confiscated by the police for evidence, etc).

If you want a piece of functional art, well... you're probably willing to spend whatever that art is worth to you. A well built 1911, assembled from oversize parts, and with modest (read: not getting into engraving) cosmetics, you could be in the $3k range pretty easily. There's a lot of labor involved, especially to finish the gun out nicely. I'm talking clean blends at the beavertail, 20 lpi full front strap checkering with straight lines and pointy diamonds, 30 lpi checkering under the trigger guard (same straight lines, etc), high cut frame, french borders, flat top and serrate the slide, serrate back of slide (or checker, your choice), polish the flats, and a nice deep hot blue. There should be less than zero evidence of tool marks, etc - the metal work should be superb. One should also expect it'll eat any damn thing you put in the magazine, and shoot it into a 2" circle at 25y all day long. It should have a foolproof 2.5-3.5# trigger, as well. The majority of the cost here is labor - to get the metal work done right takes care, skill, and experience... and time. Time costs money. Once you start talking more than $2500-3000, though, it starts to get in to paying for the name behind the gun.

If we're talking a competition gun, you still might be into it for a lot of money, for many of the same reasons. As others have pointed out, the cosmetics tend to take a back seat to function and reliability on the competition gun, and some of them are quite ugly. My preference is to have my cake and eat it, too, but I don't sweat dings, holster wear, etc. But, damn, if I'm going to pay that much for a gun, it ought to look like it's worth that much... ha ha.

 

[ubet]

I have 2 1911s one being a sa trp operator, the second a Wilson combat cqb elite. Unless you get the professional, the trp operator is the highest end sa makes. And it still can't touch the Wilson in smoothness, or accuracy. The Wilson feels like the slide is on greased ball bearings. The trigger is smooth as a 19 year old models ass and it breaks like an ice sickle. The jump into a Wilson is worth it, to me, and it's my daily carry. If I unfortunately have to use it, fuck it, my life is worth more than any pistol. I can get on the internet and replace it tonight, if I had too. But I carry it because I know it's going to go bang, and that bullet is going where I want it to, every time. Would I ever drop $7500 on a 1911? If I was a millionaire and it was a Wilson supergrade, maybe. Some unknown local bubba, pffft no fucking way. Buy a Wilson at $3500 and be done with it.

This is 25yds with the Wilson rested on a coat on the hood of a pickup, 4 shots.

Sent from my SM-N920V using Tapatalk

 

[SingleShot85]

lets see I just got my 1911.... Caspian Frame and slide, everything else pretty much Ed Brown...... cost me 5 hunts: 3 whitetail and 2 axis doe.....

 

[SingleShot85]

1911 9mm

 

[Greg Langelius *]

The only 1911 I might lust after would be a Springfield Armory Range Officer .45ACP, and maybe another 9mm version.

It has everything I'd want, nothing I don't, and is priced where I can afford it.

I have no need for either provenances or pretty doodads. (...unless belonging to me has some sort of provenance. Not likely.)

Greg

 

[Eagle1899]

I remember when people thought GAP prices were too high... now most shops are about the same. Just like Bill Wilson did, George created a product with a name and performance to back it up. Then sold the hell out of it. That's how we've ended up with 1911's that cost the same as an AI. The bar keeps getting raised. Fit, finish, performance all keep getting better.

1911 can be a finicky thing, having a custom or two and having done work on them myself I can say one that runs 100% is incredible and worth it. The price of a high end custom can be very steep for sure. But comparing a off the shelf Springfield to a Custom Shop Professional model is the same as comparing a 700P to a GAP Rock. The differences are substantial.

 

[BALLISTIC]

I wouldn't pay over $2500 for any pistol...especially a 1911.

 

[Greg Langelius *]

When the day comes that I need a tricked out 1911, I'll build it myself. It's not rocket surgery....

Greg

 

[TonyTheTiger]

$100 for a 1911, but only if I could sell it for $200. $3000 for a 2011, because they are useful...

 

[steve123]

OT a bit but here's my thoughts. There's a shop that builds custom TC's and revolvers local to me. Their guns have been on the front page of magazines and his guns have also been featured quite a bit in articles.

Foremost the owner is a total douche and I try not to call people names. He messed up my custom 1911 and most of my friends firearms at one time or the other over the years (I met a lot of these guys later on) and without recompense. I should have taken him to small claims court and regret not doing so now.

Furthermore it's not him that does the work anymore and hasn't since shortly after he started his business and doesn't pay well either. I know this because I'm friends with a few of his ex employees, one who almost got into a fist fight with the guy when quitting because he disagreed with substandard practices used. I only found this out a year ago or so. Friend also said the owner calls the barrel makers and other smiths and buys take offs and reject barrels to repurpose. Friend could go on and on about other stuff.

Yes his so called custom guns are very expensive and look nice sitting in the display case. You know as well as I that there are plenty of people around that wouldn't know the difference between nice looking gun and well built nice looking gun. Do some polishing, acid etching, some fancy grips, etc and all of a sudden it's a $3000 firearm.

Obviously there are the opposite smiths around but I thought I'd mention all this.

If I were wealthy I could see myself collecting all kinds of neat guns.... I too will stick with my custom 2011

 

[RidiculousMetacarpus]

The upper range id pay is $3000, i.e. an SA Pro. Ive shot custom Kimbers, Night Hawks, and several others side by side to my TRP and a Pro (owned by someone else), and i found the SAs to be on the same level both aesthetically / subjective fit & tightness, finish, trigger break, and it was more reliable. Matter fact, with 3200+ rounds (from el cheapo reloads to aluminum case blazer to ANY +P ammo) out of my TRP, its only FTF/FTE'd once - which was with absurdly dirty aftermarket mags. Friends $3000+ kimber failed to eject 4 times in a mere 200 rounds long after it was well broken in. Of course my experience is not a representative sample of all 1911s ever made, im merely offering my experience. Super kewl tactical logos and bro-adverts seems to sway people the other way apparently.

Like here's the thing, WTH do you plan to do with said custom 1911? Win trophy points on the internet via instagram? Or appreciate it by yourself? Shoot it? You can have the latter for a mere $1500 right now for a TRP. Lifetime warranty for any reason whatsoever is hard to beat.

Never shot a les baer, heard alot of hype with them. But i cannot see an objective difference between them and TRP/Pro in terms of mechanical capability (how tight it is to the slide has jack to do with mechanical capability, i.e. reliability). Youre kidding yourself if you think you're going to get 1 or 2 MOA out of a damn 45 cal pistol in any practical sense.

TLDR: if you want a 1911 but don't "need" an icicle style trigger break or super tight fit, just get an SA Range Officer or equivalent. Theyre like $780 or something last i checked. Am i arguing a 1911 is some sort of magical unicorn battle pistol for the end of the world relative to something like a glock or whatever-striker fire? Absolutely not. Its a silly straw-man counter argument for people to mention this too. Its kinda like people bitching at those with Marlin lever guns that theyre not "good enough" compared to their XYZ-gun they gained brownie points on the internet for buying.

 

[Gunfighter14e2]

How much would I pay for a custom 1911? Nothing at all, as eye candy or name mean nothing to me.

 

[davere]

jack[/U] to do with mechanical capability, i.e. reliability).

Actually, that's not true... unless the gun was built very capably, a tight slide to frame fit can be detrimental to reliability. In fact, tight slide to frame fit (on a standard 1911 with iron sights) doesn't buy you much/anything in terms of accuracy, either, as long as the barrel's lower lugs are fit correctly. The barrel locking consistently into the slide is really what controls accuracy, and it's possible to do that without a ridiculously tight slide to frame fit. If you have a frame mounted red dot sight on the gun (ala an IPSC racegun), you need a tight slide to frame fit to ensure that the slide (and by extension, the barrel) is pointed to the same place as the frame - but that's a different story overall.

There's a few different ways to make the slide to frame tight, too, and some of them shoot loose after a few thousand rounds... so tight slide to frame fit can be deceptive in terms of the skill of the build.

I've handled some Baers. They're built and finished nicely, but in a practical sense you're correct - as long as both run, there's not a huge difference between it and an SA or Kimber from a reliability standpoint.

The bigger concern with the SA and Kimber factory guns, to me, is all the MIM crap in them. I haven't looked into it super recently, but for a while there, both manufacturers were using MIM parts for all the small parts in the gun - safeties, extractors, etc - and those parts have a history of early breakage. But, generally those parts are easy enough to switch out (minus the thumb safety, which requires some skill and knowledge to do well and not ruin the part or the frame of the gun while you're at it).

Youre kidding yourself if you think you're going to get 1 or 2 MOA out of a damn 45 cal pistol in any practical sense.

I've seen and shot 2 MOA capable .45s, but they were purpose built bullseye guns, and were fairly finicky. I've also handled and shot 2 MOA capable competition 2011s (wide body 1911) in .40 - these were highly reliable, in addition to being accurate. There's no reason why you can't build a .45 to do the same thing, and those guns are definitely out there. I have what used to be a 1 MOA capable 2011 (ie, 1/2" groups at 50y) - but it's a .38 Super racegun, and isn't "practical" from a carry gun standpoint (and it's also way more money than I would spend on a carry gun). I say "used to be" because I haven't sat down and tried to shoot a 50y group with it since it was new, about 12,000 rounds ago, so I don't know that it will still hold 1 MOA.

1 MOA out of a handgun is pretty damn stellar accuracy, BTW.

 

[Ankeny]

Not much to add other than personal experiences from the competition end of things. I just looked at the receipt from my last custom 2011 Open Division USPSA build. Total price was $3846.90 in December of 2005. I shudder to think what that pistol would cost today. The gun has tens upon tens of thousands of rounds down the tube, has been stippled, reshaped with files and sandpaper, dremmeled (is that a word?) to death, extractor and ejector changed and reshaped several times, and it is still nuts accurate and reliable. Sure, there are many unknown smith's that could build as a good a product. But finding one could be a roll of the dice.

As far as single stacks, I have had a bunch. My favorite was a Les Baer PII that I shot for years. When I started having issues with the gun after the first 30K-45K, I had it refinished by Virgil Tripp and the internals gone over by Benny Hill (actually one of his partners). I shot that gun until my vision went to crap, perhaps another 100K. The number of malfunctions I had with that pistol could be counted on one hand and were due to ammo, like upside down primers, or a gob of snot consisting of bullet lube, shaved lead, and tumbling compound.

When I was searching for a single stack in minor I chose 9mm. Went through 2 Springfield ROs, and a STI Trojan. None of the three were accurate enough or reliable enough out of the box. Yeah, it was easy enough to fix the reliability part myself, but crap accuracy is another can of worms. I gave up the hunt.

Just like rifles, high end pistols reach a point of diminishing returns. I have spent a lot of money on some pretty high zoot rifles. Last winter I built a hunting rifle in .284 Win on a long Savage action, with a good old Shilen barrel. Sent dummy rounds to Shilen for the throating. Added a rifle Basix trigger and bedded the whole shebang in a Bell and Carlson stock. I use Norma brass, and standard dies. The resulting accuracy is just phenomenal. For my purposes would a GAP, Surgeon, or other high end build be any better? Probably not. But I still want one of George's rifles so bad I can taste it...

 

[kansas]

I've had lots of 1911s over the years. When I was a kid the only choice you had off the shelf was Colt. I had three of them and only one of them was very reliable. Along came names like Para, Kimber, SA. All were ok guns and I had several of each of those brands to choose from but then I bought a Wilson CQB. The difference was night and day. Like someone else said, the slide felt like it rode on ball bearings. The quality was very obvious and, yeah it shot better. Reliability was excellent with the only malfunctions being my handloads. I used it hard shooting IDPA and it was and it was glamorous to be seen shooting a Wilson. I started shooting other disciplines and needed the money to buy other equipment so, as all of them, I sold it. I still loved the 1911 platform and ended up buying a new Les Baer. It was accurate and a solid pistol but not near as smooth as the Wilson...and I eventually sold it also. Later, shooting the pistol portion of our local Precision rifle matches, I started to look for a 1911 9mm. I had earlier looked at a Dan Wesson Valor when I bought the Les. and was very impressed with it so I ordered a Dan Wesson PM 9. The quality of the pistol is every bit of Les Baer but much smoother and close to as smooth as the Wilson. It took 300 rounds to break in but now runs like a sewing machine. The trigger was smooth at 4 lbs but, for competition, I wanted lighter so I took it to my Smith and he lightened it up to 2 3/4 lbs. but it was what he told me that gave me further confidence in the quality of the pistol. He was impressed with the fit and the machined parts on the inside. In my opinion it's easily worth the $1500 that they bring and I'd rather have it than my Wilson. For that price I could have several different 1911s that are high quality pistols and very functional. As far as accuracy goes, I'm probably not a great judge anymore. I used to be a good pistol shooter but my eyes aren't great anymore and I'm not near as steady.

 

[gunsnjeeps]

A Springfield RO in either .45 or 9 is under $1,000. Order the sight option you want.

For a DIY project I'm not sure what the prices are. My first one was bought a little at a time some parts used some new. My second was a Springfield Mil Spec. I added a used Bomar sight and changed out the trigger for a short trigger. Did the trigger job myself with Springfield's parts and tightened the slide my self. No cost for parts, sight was used, trigger was $20 I think. I also have a new take off set of crossed cannon grips for $20.

ETA: I don't know what my top price would be for a custom match pistol. I passed on an M9 at $2000, I might consider that my top price if I had it in hand at the same time as the offer. My rifles are in the $1000-1500 range also. I might go a little higher but not much.

 

[Marksman10x]

I have many high-end 1911's, including Les Baer, two Ed Brown's, a Ted Yost, and a couple others put together by local smiths. I've also owned one Wilson Combat. For my money the best custom or semi custom is Ed Brown. They function better or as well than all the rest IME, are just as accurate, are at a better price point, and are very aesthestically pleasing. The Les Baer's are great, but are fitted so tightly they can't be field stripped without tools (all the rest can be). The Yost is beautiful (I bought when his prices were half of current) but had to be taken to a local smith as it was bouncing brass off my forehead, it's fine now, but should never have left the shop like that. I would never pay the prices being asked now by some of these guys, especially by Heirloom Precision.

If a guy is wanting a nice 1911 to shoot, not collect, I would look at a Springfield Armory 1911. For the money, they are hard to beat. A good shooting buddy has one, and it is a very nice pistol. Not as refined as the semi customs or full customs, but dead nut reliable. I've never seen that gun malfunction in any way, even with handloads, sloppy shooting, and me intentionally limb-wristing it. For me, I am willing to give up a tiny bit of accuracy potential for a large gain in reliability.

And that has always been my problem with highest-end firearms, they tend to be finicky. Of all the big name 1911's I own, I'm not sure if any is without some minor reliability flaw, whether its ammo selection, picky about magazines, or won't feed certain types of bullets. But, that Springfield has shot everything thrown at it. I was very impressed. FWIW, I''ve also had issues with high end .22's, including two S&W 41 and Volquartzen, but never any problems with any Ruger Mark series.

These are just my thoughts and experiences, others will undoubtedly have had contrary or differing experiences. I wish you luck in your search for the correct 1911.

 

[Marksman10x]

@sirhrmechanic
Sir, you have my wheels spinning about building my own...Very Nice Work! I've really become a fan of the officer size models. Now where's that Brownell's catalog

 

[SatCong]

You can get a Les Baer that's good for 1 1/2'' at 50 yards. But most people are not that good. My Baer is rated for 3'' at 50 yards. They are great 1911's.

 

[amazzara]

Price is function of hours of work to make a custom 1911. A Chuck Rogers precisions 1911 can cost from 7000 up to 13000, as a CT Brian or a Ned Christiansen Michigun etc. Waiting list in many cases can be of years.
A full custom of Rogers with the following build sheet is north of 12k:
Match grade slide to frame fit. Install hardened inserts
into frame. Machine frame and slide to suit.
Kart match barrel. Fit. Ream, throat and polish.
Rogers’ Bobnose package. Includes match bushing, flush cut and match crown barrel, custom recoil spring plug, angle cut end of slide.
‘High power’ cuts on front of slide.
Ball cuts.
Machine 60 degree bevel on bottom of slide.
‘French’ borders.
4 lightening flutes on top round of slide.
Rogers’ Whiteball front sight. Full width blended base.
Rogers’ dovetailed front sight with Trijicon tritium lamp.
Re-machine ejection port.
Re-machine ejector slot in slide.
Fabricate custom ejector.
2 Wilson extractors. Fitted. Tuned.
EGW oversized firing pin stop. Small cam radius.
Re-machine rear cocking serrations to custom flute pattern.
Modify slide stop. Custom scoop cut top. Golfballed
bottom.
Flush cut and radius slide stop shaft. Chamfer frame hole.
Golfball bottom of trigger guard.
Rogers’ custom spur hammer. Golfballed pad.
Rogers’ semi-flat trigger. Golfballed face.
Trigger job 3 3/4 lbs.
EGW/Greyson lowered thumb safety. Custom contoured.
Golfballed pad.
Bar stock plunger tube.
Wilson magazine release. Angled. Golfballed.
EGW grip safety. Custom contoured.
Golfball pad of grip safety.
High cut and golfball frontstrap.
Chen ‘Max Bevel’ mainspring housing.
Round-butt at heel of frame/mainspring housing.
Golfball mainspring housing with wrap-around onto frame.
Bevel magazine well. 15 degrees.
Carry bevel package. Full-house.
Rogers’ golfballed grip panels with logo.
Hex head grip screws.
Wolff springs throughout.
Graphite Black Cerakote over a base of manganese phosphate.
Two matching 8rd. CMC magazines.

 

[davere]

That's a pretty piece, for sure... Maybe taken a little too far, but... ha ha.

 

[kill_zone67]

If it has everything that you want on it and it makes you happy, go for it! You are the one that works for your money. That being said I would have no problem dropping $5500 on one. I wouldn't drop anymore than that though.

 

[MTFalconer]

Last full house custom I had done was 3100.00, that was in addition to sending him My gold cup national match. I treated that rig like a fifty cent hooker and it loved it. Most accurate handgun I have ever owned, to this day. Ransom rest tested to shoot one little ragged hole at 30 yards. Was it worth it? To me it was and still is. That was about 8 years ago and the gun functions as flawlessly as it did the day I got it back. It has since had a new barrel fitted and still remains the most accurate handgun I have.

 

[Fisher85]

Most expensive 1911 I ever bought was a Dan Wesson V-bob with the duty finish. Payed around $1700 for it brand new and would never spend anymore than that on a pistol. Too many other types of guns on my list of wants.