How short on a 308 barrel? Range Report in

[jwsnydes]

Re: How short on a 308 barrel?

I'm surprised no one has mentioned to just leave the barrel and get a folding stock like the AICS 2.0

 

[KYS]

Re: How short on a 308 barrel?

Out of all my 308's two of them are 24" barrels with suppressors. The others are all 18.5"

 

[ranger1183]

Re: How short on a 308 barrel?

BARREL LENGTH AND THE PRECISION RIFLE
Why shorter barrels may often be better

By Eugene Nielson

http://www.tacticaloperations.com/swatdec2000/index.html

 

[LongArm]

Re: How short on a 308 barrel?

It is a mater of convenience, weight, mobility and money.
The (folding )ACIS does not fit into that equation.

I am going to load on Friday and hopefully shot the same day. I will be shooting the 168 A-Max and the 180 Nosler Ballistic tips with varget and Reloader 17

 

[LongArm]

Re: How short on a 308 barrel?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: TDECK</div><div class="ubbcode-body">LongArm, no arguing on how handy that rifle is. Looks great as well! </div></div>

It is very handy now and well balanced, just hope I can get it to shoot now!

 

[Asm1]

Re: How short on a 308 barrel?

I hit steel with 308 at 1k 16" - 26" barrels,Realy if you want an advantage get a 7MM WSM 26" sling 180vld at 2900fps...

I throw 208 AMAX at 2450 FROM AN 18" BARREL 308 ,

b.c. is your friend when going slow or fast..

 

[Winny]

Re: How short on a 308 barrel?

Sweet looking rig...now that you have went with a shorty barrel, for a pratical tactical all purpose rig, you won't look back! Don't know if you have a load worked yet, but I am getting 2460 wtih mine using 42.5 Varget, 175 SMK, WInny primer, once fired Fed brass. Good Luck!

B.

 

[LongArm]

Re: How short on a 308 barrel?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Winny</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Sweet looking rig...now that you have went with a shorty barrel, for a pratical tactical all purpose rig, you won't look back! Don't know if you have a load worked yet, but I am getting 2460 wtih mine using 42.5 Varget, 175 SMK, WInny primer, once fired Fed brass. Good Luck!

B. </div></div>
thx I'll try this load. I am gonna work around that grain of bullet 168-180

 

[marduk185]

Re: How short on a 308 barrel?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: LoneWolfUSMC</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I guess I will take the other side of the argument.

What will you gain from cutting it down?

I have never had a problem with my 26" 700 at a range or at competitions. I really haven't even seen much problem with it when patrolling through the woods (with some pretty thick growth).


Where I have problems with it is out in the real world moving through stairwells, houses and packing it in the trunk of cars.

I now use a 20" for work because it packs smaller, and is easier to move with when I am in a confined space.

If it's a working rifle, cut it down.
If it's a brush gun, cut it down.
If you are going to suppress it, cut it down.

If you shoot on the range, and the rifle is shooting well now, leave it alone.

Cutting it for the sake of cutting it will just increase muzzle blast, decrease efficiency with factory ammo and slightly increase perceived recoil from the reduction of weight at the muzzle. </div></div>

couldnt really put it better. i run a 16" 308 ruger compact for hunting but use a 10f with a 26" no taper profile behemoth for goin long when. fit the tool to the use.

 

[308saiga]

Re: How short on a 308 barrel?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ORD</div><div class="ubbcode-body">WOW! That sure looks shorter than 17.5" to me, but it looks really good!

<span style="font-weight: bold">Looking forward to a range report. Be sure to run your chrono to get a baseline of where you are at now in terms of MV with the shorter bbl and the ammo you'll be using.</span> </div></div>

+1..... I would like to know what barrel was that?

 

[308saiga]

Re: How short on a 308 barrel?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BVEAL</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
I did it for this...
http://i756.photobucket.com/albums/xx208/sheepdawg/gun003.jpg </div></div>

How does this affect your barrel harmonics? Is it as accurate as it was before? Thanks

 

[Bradley]

Re: How short on a 308 barrel?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 308saiga</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BVEAL</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
I did it for this...
http://i756.photobucket.com/albums/xx208/sheepdawg/gun003.jpg </div></div>

How does this affect your barrel harmonics? Is it as accurate as it was before? Thanks </div></div>

I built this gun with a 16.5" barrel from the start. It's as accurate as my 24" .308 at 100yds but I haven't taken it to distance yet as I'm recovering from surgery. I see no reason for it not to shoot well at 600-800 yds as my load is supersonic out to around 900 yards.

 

[LongArm]

Re: How short on a 308 barrel?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 308saiga</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ORD</div><div class="ubbcode-body">WOW! That sure looks shorter than 17.5" to me, but it looks really good!

<span style="font-weight: bold">Looking forward to a range report. Be sure to run your chrono to get a baseline of where you are at now in terms of MV with the shorter bbl and the ammo you'll be using.</span> </div></div>

+1..... I would like to know what barrel was that? </div></div>
It is a Shilen varmint taper 1/10. Cut at 17.5" coal

 

[AUJohn]

Re: How short on a 308 barrel?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: LVMIKE</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Its all about velocity... 18-20" has been pretty well established to work to 1k with factory 175 loads. 16" will absolutely stay supersonic to 600... But how good are you at reading wind? Because that is where the velocity difference will be noticed most. </div></div>

Has it? I've seen SOME guys with aftermarket barrels get away with it (1k), I've seen shitloads of rock shooters and "hit stuff" guys. What I have not seen is guys with factory rifles shooting for accuracy at 1K and being happy with the lower velocity.
Even then, what if they decide or need to use a different load? Should we pick one single load which can do it in some guns and ignore the rest, hoping we never need to use something different?
What if "our" gun is a slow one?
Then we hear the line about reloading and adding more powder. Forgetting all about pressures of course. Find the right load, change conditions and you end up with an unusable rifle. Anyone thinking it's ok to blow primers or have other pressure issues shouldn't be reloading. I have a 30c to 40C temp swing every year. I use temp stable powders and still the difference in loads can be quite large. Large enough to blow primers or worse.

The subsonic transition with most projectiles means far less accuracy. Even transonic can make a difference.

If you want 1K then short barrels are not the tool for the job if you are serious about accuracy. OTOH if you just like hitting stuff then say so when you post, I would hate to point someone who wanted accuracy in the wrong direction.

 

[bear_blade]

Re: How short on a 308 barrel?

I built my new rig around a 28" match barrel, I am certian it will group better than a short barrel at >600 yards. Even the extra MV gain has got to be worth the length/weight. My 2 cents...

 

[LongArm]

Re: How short on a 308 barrel?

 

[LoneWolfUSMC]

Re: How short on a 308 barrel?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: bear_blade</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I built my new rig around a 28" match barrel, I am certian it will group better than a short barrel at >600 yards. Even the extra MV gain has got to be worth the length/weight. My 2 cents... </div></div>

For ages folks were certain the earth was flat. They were wrong too.

 

[bm11]

Re: How short on a 308 barrel?

For anyone who hadn't checked this thread out: http://snipershide.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2020213#Post2020213

 

[Timo Turl]

Re: How short on a 308 barrel?

The only reason to have a 28" is to stop the F-Class grandad's coming over and giving you a lecture. Sod it, i might go down to 18" just to stir them up !

 

[bear_blade]

Re: How short on a 308 barrel?

Maybe I should have read a bunch more here before I started the build. I admit it has been a number of years since I did any serious long range stuff. Mostly antelope and deer to 400 or so. I kinda missed this school of thought about short barrels. Looking forward to learning more.

bm11, thanks for the read.

I'm far from a grand dad, but admit I may need to be taken to school again.

 

[sobrbiker883]

Re: How short on a 308 barrel?

If you need "handy" or are gonna add a can short is fine, but for general purpose precision rifle stuff-if I'm shooting an old school caliber, I shoot an old schooll tube: 26" Rock 1:10.

 

[mouse07410]

Re: How short on a 308 barrel?

Sobr, I'm with you. Except that for "handy" I find bullpups even "handier" than those cut-off "obrez"!

 

[trailmudder]

Re: How short on a 308 barrel?

I am trying to decide myself on barrel length for a REM 700 in .308, the lengths I was considering was 20" or 22", the rifle will be suppressed . The most common distance will be 300-500 but I don't want to rule out more distance .The round of choice will be .168 Fgm .

 

[JRose]

Re: How short on a 308 barrel?

I plan on cutting my barrel down to 12"....

My barrel will be shorter than everyones!!! MUHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAA

 

[trailmudder]

Re: How short on a 308 barrel?

I have a 7.5" on my AR .<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: JRose</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I plan on cutting my barrel down to 12"....

My barrel will be shorter than everyones!!! MUHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAA</div></div>

 

[Bruiser_Joe]

Re: How short on a 308 barrel?

my next bolt gun build will be a 16.5"

 

[J-Ham]

Re: How short on a 308 barrel?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: trailmudder</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I have a 7.5" on my AR. </div></div>
In that case, JRo will just purchase a chamber and no rifling - shouldn't be any more than 3" long

. Barrels are cheaper that way too.

 

[JRose]

Re: How short on a 308 barrel?

Any less than 12" is just silly.

 

[trailmudder]

Re: How short on a 308 barrel?

You have me there , but how will it shoot .<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: J-Ham</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: trailmudder</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I have a 7.5" on my AR. </div></div>
In that case, JRo will just purchase a chamber and no rifling - shouldn't be any more than 3" long

. Barrels are cheaper that way too.</div></div>

 

[J-Ham]

Re: How short on a 308 barrel?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: trailmudder</div><div class="ubbcode-body">You have me there , but how will it shoot. </div></div>
...doesn't matter, it'll be cool, right?

 

[trailmudder]

Re: How short on a 308 barrel?

That would be super cool . <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: J-Ham</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: trailmudder</div><div class="ubbcode-body">You have me there , but how will it shoot. </div></div>
...doesn't matter, it'll be cool, right?</div></div>

 

[crashandburn]

Re: How short on a 308 barrel?

I wouldn't go below 18" and 20" is plenty short in my opinion. I have done a test on my Remington VLS .308 which started out w/ a 26" barrel. I shot 45.0grns of VARGET,168SMK,cci BR-2 primer,Winchester brass getting 2700-2720 FPS. I shot the same load through a Rreminton LTR .308 which ran 2600-2620FPS.

I then shot my stand by load which was 42.0grns of RL-15 w/ a 168SMK ( sierra's accuracy load), winchseter brass and cci BR-2 primers. My 26" barrel ran it @ 2550FPS. I then cut I barrel down to 22" and shot the same RL-15 load running 2400-2418FPS.

 

[aggiesig]

Re: How short on a 308 barrel?

.308 ain't bad at 16 but I would stick at at 18 at least.

I had to cut a 300 win mag to 16" for a guy who wanted a hog rifle...

I just felt stupid for that job, I should have charged him extra, but I figured he would need it for hearing aides...

 

[LongArm]

Re: How short on a 308 barrel?

ok so I went to the range and these are the results

GGG brass
wolf magnum primers
Nosler 180 Ballistic tip
42.5grains of varget
average MV 2447

GGG brass
wolf magnum primers
Nosler 180 Ballistic tip
43 grains of varget
average MV 2466

GGG brass
wolf magnum primers
Nosler 180 Ballistic tip
48.5 grains Reloader 17
average MV 2525

GGG brass
wolf magnum primers
Nosler 180 Ballistic tip
48.7 grains Reloader 17
average MV 2523(<span style="font-style: italic">average of two groups</span>) <span style="font-weight: bold">2nd group</span>

<span style="font-weight: bold"> 1st group</span>

I am going to reload 43 and 44 grains of varget and 48.7 and 49 grains of Reloader 17 and try again. I had a couple of problems while shooting. I had a 7 year old shaking my table as he was shooting/playing next to me and later 22 rounds hitting me (in the face) while I was shooting. This is a public range, both children belonged to friends, lol.
I think I can shrink the groups down pretty tight with more concentration on my part. Varget shot great and Reloader shot good but I was getting distracted by that point so it is hard to say if it was the load or me.

As a side note some times the barrel would be hot when I started the next ring of fire and some times it would have cooled completely. I am not sure how much this impacts the accuracy. Let me know your thoughts please.

 

[LoneWolfUSMC]

Re: How short on a 308 barrel?

If you aren't letting the rounds "cook" in the barrel, then it shouldn't have much impact.

RE17 seems to work great for pushing heavies fast in a .308

 

[LongArm]

Re: How short on a 308 barrel?

they were not cooking,the barrel was just a different temps. I really like R17. I had previously used it in the .308 for 208AMax's

 

[Jeffs550]

Re: How short on a 308 barrel?

I have been wanting a short barrell 308 since seeing Low Lights video at 1K. I just cut mine down to 18.5 inches and hope to shoot it after the holidays. It will be interesting to see if my expectations are met.

 

[jdgray]

Re: How short on a 308 barrel?

Hey LongArm,
How did the groups compare to the precut barrel groups? 100yrd groups?

 

[carbinero]

Re: How short on a 308 barrel?

I will also +1 the below. As I'm sure many others have...I keep toying with the idea of cutting my 26", but it shoots so well I keep holding off. I have no plans to suppress it (and F-Class thoughts are far in the future), and my carry/hunt:range ratio is 5:95, so "I believe" the comfort of shooting offsets the inconvenience of carrying. I estimate 4" shorter would reduce 1/2 pound, so to be forthcoming, it would be lovely to save that weight.

But on the other hand, I'm out West where the average shot is around 300 yards, so a little extra fps for the bullet to perform in the animal, as well as doping the wind/elevation, are benefits...regardless of how slight. My friends shoot 30-06 and 7mm, 300, 257 and 270 mags, so my 308 is a handicap. Since I am no expert, I can use any extra fps from barrel length. Of course while grunting up and down foothills the extra length and weight is evident, and I'm clearly aware of the price I'm paying to keep the 26. Likewise, I keep reading here that the best bipod is 6-9", but I continue to train with and lug a burdensome 13-27, because any less just isn't useful for me in mountainous hunting.

When I'm at the range, however, shooting is a breeze, and as stated above, it's very accurate, so I hate to mess with a Good Thing. (Plus of course there's the subconscious knowledge that I know my rifle performs as it is, Right Now.) I do appreciate these redundant threads, since I do continue to flirt with the idea...as I'm sure do many, many others. My 'smith charges $35 for cut and crown, BTW...

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: LoneWolfUSMC</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I guess I will take the other side of the argument.

What will you gain from cutting it down?

I have never had a problem with my 26" 700 at a range or at competitions. I really haven't even seen much problem with it when patrolling through the woods (with some pretty thick growth).

Where I have problems with it is out in the real world moving through stairwells, houses and packing it in the trunk of cars.

I now use a 20" for work because it packs smaller, and is easier to move with when I am in a confined space.

If it's a working rifle, cut it down.
If it's a brush gun, cut it down.
If you are going to suppress it, cut it down.

If you shoot on the range, and the rifle is shooting well now, leave it alone.

Cutting it for the sake of cutting it will just increase muzzle blast, decrease efficiency with factory ammo and slightly increase perceived recoil from the reduction of weight at the muzzle. </div></div>

 

[JRose]

Re: How short on a 308 barrel?

If I had to use RL17 in order to gain back my lost velocity, I'd rather take the lost velocity.

 

[LongArm]

Re: How short on a 308 barrel?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: JRose</div><div class="ubbcode-body">If I had to use RL17 in order to gain back my lost velocity, I'd rather take the lost velocity. </div></div>

Why is that?

 

[AUJohn]

Re: How short on a 308 barrel?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: LoneWolfUSMC</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: bear_blade</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I built my new rig around a 28" match barrel, I am certian it will group better than a short barrel at >600 yards. Even the extra MV gain has got to be worth the length/weight. My 2 cents... </div></div>

For ages folks were certain the earth was flat. They were wrong too. </div></div>

Come on, In theory there is an optimum length. In real life it will make little to no difference. Few can shoot well enough to notice anyway so the gain is all in the mind like much of the crap people go on about. The loss at 1K by going short is much worse than the "gain" from the possibly better accuracy.
OTOH, most of these guys just pick a big enough target that it does not matter if they are transitional or subsonic.....

 

[AUJohn]

Re: How short on a 308 barrel?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: JRose</div><div class="ubbcode-body">If I had to use RL17 in order to gain back my lost velocity, I'd rather take the lost velocity. </div></div>

If I had to bump pressures to get back what I lost I would wonder if I had done the right thing....
At least it looks cool and it's ok to eat up your safety margin as nothing even goes wrong.
Right?

 

[LongArm]

Re: How short on a 308 barrel?

Its hard to tell if the barrel is more accurate because the loads are not dialed in yet, but hopefully I'll know soon. It is not <span style="font-style: italic">less accurate</span> as far as I can tell.

 

[LongArm]

Re: How short on a 308 barrel?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: AUJohn</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: JRose</div><div class="ubbcode-body">If I had to use RL17 in order to gain back my lost velocity, I'd rather take the lost velocity. </div></div>

If I had to bump pressures to get back what I lost I would wonder if I had done the right thing....
At least it looks cool and it's ok to eat up your safety margin as nothing even goes wrong.
Right? </div></div>

I guess my question is, and was what is the problem with R-17??

 

[JRose]

Re: How short on a 308 barrel?

I didn't care for it. I experimented with 4 different lots, and got 4 different results. The first lot was dynamite, so I thought I had a winner. I was getting about a 100fps improvement, and while the ES/SD numbers weren't great, they weren't horrible, and the thing was a laser.

1st problem was that the lot to lot variation was always way unpredictable. Second was that I found it to be very temp sensitive, as little as 40 degrees spread had me shucking primers.

Use it if you want, but these new super powders have some tweaking to do. Ill stick with slower and consistent.

 

[LongArm]

Re: How short on a 308 barrel?

That makes sense. Do you think varget is better in that respect?

 

[Winny]

Re: How short on a 308 barrel?

Yes...Varget is a great powder for the .308 (just my opinion).

 

[Sniper1720]

Re: How short on a 308 barrel?

Just 10-43 I have a Rem 700 w/ 20 inch Barrel. I use fed 168gr GMM and mine starts to tumble at around 800 yards. I would would not sacrifice the little bit of weight your going to loose for the accuracy! Just my 2 cents. Good luck on your decision.

 

[Sniper1720]

Re: How short on a 308 barrel?

It looks very good, just curious as to why such a short Barrel?