How smoothly should my resized cases load into the chamber with bolt ejector removed?

[yo-yo]

I just went through a process to find the lands in my barrel, by disassembling my Savage bolt, and removing the spring loaded ejector. During this process, I realized my resized cases would not allow the bolt to fall smoothly, without interference, when testing to see if the bullet was touching the lands.

I solved that issue with some new Lapua brass, but it got me looking more closely as to whether or not my Forster full length resizing die (with interchangeable neck bushings) was actually doing anything. I put some once-shot Federal brass in the die and it doesn't appear to be resizing the body of the case at all. It is making the neck smaller and lengthening the case though.

The dimensions on the case at the top of the body, near the shoulder, and the dimensions of the case at the "web", near the case head, appear unchanged. These dimensions are still larger than the specs the Hornady book suggests the case should be. I can still get the case to load, by turning the bolt down, but it is not interference free.

Should my die be resizing the brass to the book specs or smaller, to better fit in the chamber, or do I want a pretty tight fit with the cases?

 

[jetjock07]

Should be able to insert sized case into chamber by hand. Might want to pick up some comparators to see if your actually bumping the shoulder.

 

[yo-yo]

Should be able to insert sized case into chamber by hand. Might want to pick up some comparators to see if your actually bumping the shoulder.

Thanks for the comment. I can insert the case into the chamber, and I can close the bolt by hand, but when I have the spring loaded components removed from the bolt, and perform the test where the is allowed to fall freely...it does not. I don't have any issue closing the bolt with a little pressure, as I normally would feel when the bolt is fully assembled, but I was just wondering what is the desired outcome from the die.

Yeah, I'm going to grab a comparator for the cases today and see what is happening. I don't think I can tell if the shoulder is really being bumped back or not.

 

[yo-yo]

Also, is there an adjustment on the full-length sizing die for shoulder bump? Is that adjustable only buy how far I screw the die into the press?

 

[TheOfficeT-Rex]

Also, is there an adjustment on the full-length sizing die for shoulder bump? Is that adjustable only buy how far I screw the die into the press?

Screwing it into the press is how you control the amount of shoulder bump. Once it starts to move, it doesn't take much to change the bump a couple thou.

In a pinch, you can use a decapped 9mm case as a comparator, just to see if you're moving the shoulder back at all.

 

[Schw15]

Also, is there an adjustment on the full-length sizing die for shoulder bump? Is that adjustable only buy how far I screw the die into the press?

You should go watch Alex wheeler video on properly sizing a case. When you have your plunger and spring out the bolt handle should drop freely with a proper sized case. So you would need to screw the die down to get more sizing. Watch the video and it will help you.

But basically what you need to do is put the case back into press scre the die in a touch size it and then test with your bolt and do that til it almost most drops freely but hangs up at the end then I would measure case and take 2 thousand more shoulder bump and your golden.

 

[yo-yo]

Screwing it into the press is how you control the amount of shoulder bump. Once it starts to move, it doesn't take much to change the bump a couple thou.

In a pinch, you can use a decapped 9mm case as a comparator, just to see if you're moving the shoulder back at all.

Oh, really? Ok, I'll look into that. Thanks!

 

[yo-yo]

You should go watch Alex wheeler video on properly sizing a case. When you have your plunger and spring out the bolt handle should drop freely with a proper sized case. So you would need to screw the die down to get more sizing. Watch the video and it will help you.

But basically what you need to do is put the case back into press scre the die in a touch size it and then test with your bolt and do that til it almost most drops freely but hangs up at the end then I would measure case and take 2 thousand more shoulder bump and your golden.

Thanks. Every time I look for Alex Wheeler videos, they all say "unavailable". Where do you go to find these videos?

Ok, so...adjust the die to resize the case until it "just hangs up at the end of the bolt drop", and the measure that case in the comparator. Then, adjust the die in the press to bump the shoulder an additional .002"?

My only concern is...my shell holder is nearly contacting the die already, when the press at it's highest position. Do I risk breaking the die with an interference fit there?

 

[Schw15]

No most of the time the die will contact the shell holder and cause some camover which is a good thing unless it's really really hard.

Yes that's what I do based on alex videos I will if I can get it. I just got to his website then the videos and it should work

 

[Schw15]

His video works on his website scroll down to brass sizing watch that video

 

[yo-yo]

No most of the time the die will contact the shell holder and cause some camover which is a good thing unless it's really really hard.

Yes that's what I do based on alex videos I will if I can get it. I just got to his website then the videos and it should work

Ok. Thanks! I appreciate it. I’ll try the videos again. What is his official website?

 

[Schw15]

Ok. Thanks! I appreciate it. I’ll try the videos again. What is his official website?

Just Google Alex wheeler or add gunsmith it will pop up

 

[Baron23]

@yo-yo - I may be very confused here....I did ride the short bus to school after all....but I don't hear you saying anything that indicates that the issue of your bolt not dropping freely is conclusively from the shoulder not being bumped back (versus, say neck O.D., body dimensions...like that).

I'll save @spife7980 the trouble of posting his most often refrain in such situation....post the dimensions on your case both after firing and after resizing. Body width, neck width, shoulder relative position (and yes, you would need a comparative to get this).

Its probably the shoulder....but, nobody actually knows that for certain at this point...I believe.

 

[memilanuk]

Ok. Thanks! I appreciate it. I’ll try the videos again. What is his official website?

It's the same one I pointed you at in the last thread you had, ya ding-dong.

And yes, you want the bolt to drop freely, or with just a *hint* of drag, with a stripped bolt. You can (usually) get away with just measuring your fired cases headspace, and setting your sizing die to bump the shoulder 2 thou back from whatever that value is. It might not be exact - there's some nuances to shoulder bump - but for most people that and the Hornady COAL tool are 'close enough'.

The act of opening the bolt and loading the next round is going to disturb the gun from your point of aim to some degree anyways, but a lot less than if you end up wrestling with it because of problems chambering the round.

 

[yo-yo]

Just Google Alex wheeler or add gunsmith it will pop up

Ok. Thanks. I did find it. Thought I would be looking on YouTube. For anyone else following this thread...the website for Alex Wheeler videos is https://www.wheeleraccuracy.com/videos.

 

[yo-yo]

It's the same one I pointed you at in the last thread you had, ya ding-dong.

And yes, you want the bolt to drop freely, or with just a *hint* of drag, with a stripped bolt. You can (usually) get away with just measuring your fired cases headspace, and setting your sizing die to bump the shoulder 2 thou back from whatever that value is. It might not be exact - there's some nuances to shoulder bump - but for most people that and the Hornady COAL tool are 'close enough'.

The act of opening the bolt and loading the next round is going to disturb the gun from your point of aim to some degree anyways, but a lot less than if you end up wrestling with it because of problems chambering the round.

Ah, funny! I didn't realize that was Alex Wheeler. Silly me. I did look there first, but somehow missed the Sizing Brass video. Thanks again for the comment. I see now! . Ya! Off to get a headspace comparator.

 

[yo-yo]

@yo-yo - I may be very confused here....I did ride the short bus to school after all....but I don't hear you saying anything that indicates that the issue of your bolt not dropping freely is conclusively from the shoulder not being bumped back (versus, say neck O.D., body dimensions...like that).

I'll save @spife7980 the trouble of posting his most often refrain in such situation....post the dimensions on your case both after firing and after resizing. Body width, neck width, shoulder relative position (and yes, you would need a comparative to get this).

Its probably the shoulder....but, nobody actually knows that for certain at this point...I believe.

Funny! I did actually measure the neck and the top of the case near the neck and the bottom of the case near at the "web" (I think this is what it is called). I did find the case measurements at the bottom of the case larger than the Hornady book spec by .0005", but I wasn't sure the measurement is really accurate to .0005". I measure 0.4705" and the book shows 0.470". I put it into my die a couple times and it doesn't seem to be changing the size anymore. It could be a problem that the case is hitting somewhere else. Is there another way to tell, where the case is making contact?

 

[KnowNothing256]

Quick question for OP: Does the bolt fall closed freely with no brass in the chamber? Sorry if you already clarified that, didn't see it though.

 

[yo-yo]

Quick question for OP: Does the bolt fall closed freely with no brass in the chamber? Sorry if you already clarified that, didn't see it though.

Ah, good question! I did not state that, but yes, the bolt falls very loosely to a resting position when there is nothing in the chamber. It also falls smoothly with a Hornady modified case in it, and even with some loaded cases what are brand new never-fired Lapua brass I bought (these are known to have bullets seated extra short to avoid any potential issue). I think that should be a good enough test. Hopefully.

 

[Baron23]

I did actually measure the neck and the top of the case near the neck and the bottom of the case near at the "web"

Yes, but did you do this to an fired but unsized case and then to a sized case and compare?

The dimensions on the case at the top of the body, near the shoulder, and the dimensions of the case at the "web", near the case head, appear unchanged.

Oops, poor reading comprehension on my part....so you did before and after resizing and there are zero changes anywhere on the case?

And I don't know what Hornady book numbers you are referring to but I have to assume that Savage, like all production manf, cuts to at least a SAAMI spec. I don't see where you mention what caliber you are trying to reload (may be more poor reading comprehension on my part but I did look and don't see it).

SAAMI chamber and cartridge specs are here:

https://saami.org/wp-content/uploads/2023/11/ANSI-SAAMI-Z299.4-CFR-Approved-2015-12-14-Posting-Copy.pdf

 

[Rider47]

I haven't read all the posts, so this may have been suggested already. Take a black magic marker and paint it black. The entire case. Let it dry completely. Then repeat inserting into your chamber. Scuff marks where the issue is should be apparent. You may need a small base die to resize to below chamber size.

 

[straightshooter1]

I just went through a process to find the lands in my barrel, by disassembling my Savage bolt, and removing the spring loaded ejector. During this process, I realized my resized cases would not allow the bolt to fall smoothly, without interference, when testing to see if the bullet was touching the lands.

I solved that issue with some new Lapua brass, but it got me looking more closely as to whether or not my Forster full length resizing die (with interchangeable neck bushings) was actually doing anything. I put some once-shot Federal brass in the die and it doesn't appear to be resizing the body of the case at all. It is making the neck smaller and lengthening the case though.

The dimensions on the case at the top of the body, near the shoulder, and the dimensions of the case at the "web", near the case head, appear unchanged. These dimensions are still larger than the specs the Hornady book suggests the case should be. I can still get the case to load, by turning the bolt down, but it is not interference free.

Should my die be resizing the brass to the book specs or smaller, to better fit in the chamber, or do I want a pretty tight fit with the cases?

I'm confused by what you've said. You talk about using this process with a bullet in the case to touching the lands??? This technique ("process") isn't for "touching the lands". It's for finding where the case shoulder makes contact for your Head Space. In doing this technique, you shouldn't even have a bullet in the case. Head space and distance to the lands are two very different things.

Once you find the measurement for your head space, you can then set up you die for the amount of bump you want. You don't need this technique to find your distance to the lands, which you use the Hornady tool for, whether the ejector is in place or not.

 

[Baron23]

I'm confused by what you've said. You talk about using this process with a bullet in the case to touching the lands??? This technique ("process") isn't for "touching the lands". It's for finding where the case shoulder makes contact for your Head Space. In doing this technique, you shouldn't even have a bullet in the case. Head space and distance to the lands are two very different things.

Once you find the measurement for your head space, you can then set up you die for the amount of bump you want. You don't need this technique to find your distance to the lands, which you use the Hornady tool for, whether the ejector is in place or not.

I don’t agree with this. See wheeler or even Dykstra vids where they clearly demonstrate setting the bullet back in small increments until the handle on a stripped bolt falls easily by its own weight.

Yes, the case needs to be sized incl bumping shoulders back to make headspace but what he’s trying to do is valid.

Personally, I just use the Hornady gauge. I got a new barrel not too long ago and did the Mark Gordon method of dropping the case w bullet into the chamber held vertically. Give it a little tap and the see if it lifts out easily w just the mail on your pinky finger. If not, set the bullet back deeper in small increments until it does.

Came out within .005” of the IAL gauge results and I don’t give a crap about .005” which may get eroded in the throat with as little as a couple of hundred rounds.

 

[Schw15]

Alex wheeler method for the shoulder bump and finding the lands is the best well I also use the finger nail method which is mark Gordon's way and it's been very good too but the barrel has to be off.

 

[918v]

I just went through a process to find the lands in my barrel, by disassembling my Savage bolt, and removing the spring loaded ejector. During this process, I realized my resized cases would not allow the bolt to fall smoothly, without interference, when testing to see if the bullet was touching the lands.

I solved that issue with some new Lapua brass, but it got me looking more closely as to whether or not my Forster full length resizing die (with interchangeable neck bushings) was actually doing anything. I put some once-shot Federal brass in the die and it doesn't appear to be resizing the body of the case at all. It is making the neck smaller and lengthening the case though.

The dimensions on the case at the top of the body, near the shoulder, and the dimensions of the case at the "web", near the case head, appear unchanged. These dimensions are still larger than the specs the Hornady book suggests the case should be. I can still get the case to load, by turning the bolt down, but it is not interference free.

Should my die be resizing the brass to the book specs or smaller, to better fit in the chamber, or do I want a pretty tight fit with the cases?

No. Your die should be sizing the case so it fits your chamber. Typically dies size the brass a couple thou smaller from fired. Small base dies size the case closer to factory spec, both at the base and at the shoulder.

The way you have the die set up as well as lube dictates whether you’ll have variance in sizing. If it’s plus/minus .002” on the shoulder length then you might have additional bolt drag.