How to be more comfortable/less stressed behind the gun

[Sminja19]

Hi all!
Still new to the PRS world and long range as a whole, but a competent carbine and pistol shooter.

I have a good setup thus far, GA Precision custom gun in a Manners stock with a spuhr Mount and Leupold Mark 6. I’m shooting tight groups, but find myself to be uncomfortable whilst doing so. I find that I am straining my eyes, cramping from being tense for a long period of time, and moving an excessive amount in an attempt to be comfortable. I don’t feel like I can just relax and go through the motions smoothly as I would with a handgun or a carbine. I attribute some of this for simply not having enough time on the gun or rounds through it for me to be super relaxed while shooting, but aside from this can anyone help me diagnose the problems that I can control? Please, all advice and constructive criticism is welcome! Thank you all in advance!
-S

 

[Slash0311]

A couple thoughts come to my mind.

Seek professional instruction. It may be your setup and a pro should be able to help.

If that won't work or in the short term, I'd suggest checking everything on ref to cheek weld and height, scope position and if it's focused for you. My suggestion (and I'm far from an expert so someone may correct me) but close your eyes and lay prone behind your gun. Get comfortable and relax. Open your eyes and see where your eyes and scope line up. That at least may give you an idea of any adjustments.

 

[davsco]

bipod height and comb height make a big difference. play around with both until you find a comfortable position. and of course the bipod height will need to change if you have a flat position vs downhill or uphill. you don't want to be forcing yourself down on the gun, nor arching up on it.

 

[cattleman99]

Video yourself shooting both prone and positional as you naturally would. Review the video, look for times you’re uncomfortable or you’d fundamentals are poor and try to correct them

 

[John Wesley Hardin]

Smoke a little ganja.

 

[OLD308]

Shoot with both eyes open. This will decrease your eye fatigue. Takes a bit to get used to but it works. Your proper prone position is when you can fall asleep behind the rifle and wake up with perfect sight alignment. No neck pain, or tight lower back. Try this with different cheek riser height, bipod height, and rear bag support. It's been my experience that people having the greatest difficulty finding proper position is usually due to improper eye relief. Professional help would be many well spent. Hope this helps.

 

[flyer]

It is helpful to have a friend that can help you set your scope position for proper eye relief in your various shooting positions.

 

[usafa77]

If there is any tension in your neck while shooting, adjust your LOP ( you may need to move your scope.) and cheek rest.

 

[PAYDIRT]

Buy a 22. Burn lots of ammo. Relax and have fun/but be serious. Don't overthink it. I "got serious" about golf for a short time, started taking lessons, started playing like shit, was worse than the first time I ever played. Brain f'd myself. I'd bet my manual labor $ your complete overthinking it.

 

[Dthomas3523]

1: breathe. For some reason we all want to hold our breath when we shoot a precision rifle.

2: find a reputable instructor that is known for harping on fundamentals.

 

[Dthomas3523]

Buy a 22. Burn lots of ammo. Relax and have fun/but be serious. Don't overthink it. I "got serious" about golf for a short time, started taking lessons, started playing like shit, was worse than the first time I ever played. Brain f'd myself. I'd bet my manual labor $ your complete overthinking it.

Was likely because you were starting to do things “right,” which was different than your bad habits.

Extremely common in any activity for us to take a big dip in performance once we start getting training or fixing things.

We are doing the right things, but they don’t feel natural. So our short term performance takes a dive. When you stick with it, it works out. A one step back, two steps forward.

Not directed at you personally, but middle pack (or any sport/game) typically say things like they got too serious or started overthinking.

Top tier will tell you how they took lessons, analyzed their deficiencies, and practiced a ton.

To the OP, don’t worry too much if your scores or hits seem less when you’re learning new things. You’ll bounce back stronger.

 

[Erno86]

If a shooter's eye vision tends to get blurry while shooting --- The shooter is not breathing enough to get oxygenated blood to the retinas of their eyes.

Don't stare at the target long enough which causes the cones in your eyes to possibly aquire 'tunnel vision syndrome'. After a shot or so...try to break from getting tunnel vision, by looking somewhere else besides staring at your target all the time. Example: Swivel your head from left to right or vice versa, while looking to see if any more bad guys deserve it.

People tend to stare at their computer screen without blinking. Their eyes will get tired unless they break-off visual contact with the computer screen, and look at something else while blinking their eyes. Do the same occasionally while in the art of shooting.

Certain yoga exercises help --- Be like a swimmer before a match...by shaking out the nervous tension in their arms, hands, legs and feet. You can also tighten then relax each muscle in your body.

 

[Sminja19]

So in summary:
-breathe more
-take a chill pill
-review and study eye relief, Bipod positioning and height, comb height
-spend more time behind the gun so I get more comfortable
-keep seeking advice from awesome guys like you!

Thank you all! Don’t hesitate to add more, I just wanna learn and be better every time I run that bolt

 

[Sminja19]

So in summary:
-breathe more
-take a chill pill
-review and study eye relief, Bipod positioning and height, comb height
-spend more time behind the gun so I get more comfortable
-keep seeking advice from awesome guys like you!

Thank you all! Don’t hesitate to add more, I just wanna learn and be better every time I run that bolt

Also take my eyes off target every now and again to let eyes rest

 

[Slash0311]

You left out professional instruction...

I know thats always not possible but it's worth every dime when you see the returns on the investments...

 

[corey4]

Also take my eyes off target every now and again to let eyes rest

Take your eye off target but don't break cheek weld or come off the rifle.

Follow thru with the shot. Keep your finger on the trigger, don't come off the rifle, don't do anything until the recoil impulse stops.

Also, I read somewhere that our eyes can only hold focus for a second or 2. So if you're really trying hard to focus on the bullseye and you're fucking around trying to get cozy, just stop...you already fucked up the shot.

 

[Erno86]

When you are about to break the shot...don't hold your breath for longer than six seconds. If you reach past the six second mark...breathe & start the pre-shot sequence over again.

For a long rapid fire sequence...you'll have to hold your breath between breathing in spurts while breaking each or a number of shots --- as long as you don't go past holding your breath in six seconds.

Hyper ventilation...then holding your breath for a certain time can make you pass out.

 

[seansmd]

I can't imagine holding your breath in any fashion is going to help your comfort or accuracy. NPA and natural breathing is what I have been working on based on the reading and guidance from sages on these pages.

 

[Hobo Hilton]

When you feel the anxiety building...... Stop, get up and walk away. Find a remote spot, have a coffee, water or soda. Allow your mind to clear...... However long it takes. When you have re-focused. Move back to your task. Professional instruction could just add more stress, depending on your personality and the instructor. As was previously mentioned, more time behind the weapon will help. Hang in there.

 

[Slash0311]

When you are about to break the shot...don't hold your breath for longer than six seconds. If you reach past the six second mark...breathe & start the pre-shot sequence over again.

For a long rapid fire sequence...you'll have to hold your breath between breathing in spurts while breaking each or a number of shots --- as long as you don't go past holding your breath in six seconds.

This is good advice and here's my example on this very thing. Im shoot a qualification course at my state course. It was a 3 round string in about 60 seconds. I was hold my breath trying to get my heart rate under control after a 4 minute run. I was holding and holding telling myself "I can still get this shot off" with that breath. Trigger broke and shot was bad.

So, note to self. Don't hold your breath too long.

 

[D̷e̷v̷i̷l̷D̷o̷c̷A̷Z̷]

Buy a 22. Burn lots of ammo.

Pretty much sums up this whole forum.

 

[Erno86]

When you let out a breath just before you break the shot...only breathe out 2/3rds of it.

Some snipers say..."avoid drinking caffeinated coffee and/or sugary drinks before or during a shooting session."

Once you have sighted in and have gotten acquainted with the gun an trigger on the bench --- get off the bench --- and practice different shooting positions. My favorite type of shooting at the range is in the offhand or standing position. If you get physically or mentally tired...stop for awhile or just call it a day --- Preferably having the last shot of the day hit the target, so that you can walk off in a better frame of mind.

Sometimes I find it relaxing just shooting off the bench --- nothing wrong with that --- But I found it boring just shooting off the bench all of the time.

 

[Dthomas3523]

When you let out a breath just before you break the shot...only breathe out 2/3rds of it.

Some snipers say..."avoid drinking caffeinated coffee and/or sugary drinks before or during a shooting session."

Wait. What??

You exhale completely and break shot at the bottom of your respiratory pause.

The 2/3 or partial breathe and shoot is outdated and misinformation.

 

[Erno86]

Wait. What??

You exhale completely and break shot at the bottom of your respiratory pause.

The 2/3 or partial breathe and shoot is outdated and misinformation.

I thought that the bottom of my normal respiratory pause is by letting out 2/3rds of my breath. It just doesn't feel comfortable for me to force out all of the breath from my lungs before a breaking shot.

 

[Dthomas3523]

I thought that the bottom of my normal respiratory pause is by letting out 2/3rds of my breath. It just doesn't feel comfortable for me to force out all of the breath from my lungs before a breaking shot.

You still have some air in your lungs.

But telling people to breathe out a certain amount makes them think lots of different things.

Telling someone to break at the bottom of their respiratory pause leaves no room for interpretation.

 

[Rthur]

I thought that the bottom of my normal respiratory pause is by letting out 2/3rds of my breath. It just doesn't feel comfortable for me to force out all of the breath from my lungs before a breaking shot.

"Normal breathing cycle"
Comes natural as... breathing.

R

 

[_Windrider_]

I thought that the bottom of my normal respiratory pause is by letting out 2/3rds of my breath. It just doesn't feel comfortable for me to force out all of the breath from my lungs before a breaking shot.

Can u actually measure 2/3?

 

[Erno86]

Can u actually measure 2/3?

Sort of...by not forcibly compressing my chest and diaphragm to expel the remaining 1/3 of my breath.

 

[Dthomas3523]

Sort of...by not forcibly compressing my chest and diaphragm to expel the remaining 1/3 of my breath.

......................

 

[seansmd]

It would be interesting to observe pulse and BP of normal resting breathing with natural bottom pause, vs an interrupted hold of breath as stated above, vs a complex boxed breathing with extended inhale, hold, exhale, hold sequences.

But not interesting enough to try, I know when I am relaxed and breathing normally there is a natural pause at the bottom that I can rely on. My lungs will always be at the same level of empty, and I will be the most relaxed.

 

[Dthomas3523]

It would be interesting to observe pulse and BP of normal resting breathing with natural bottom pause, vs an interrupted hold of breath as stated above, vs a complex boxed breathing with extended inhale, hold, exhale, hold sequences.

But not interesting enough to try, I know when I am relaxed and breathing normally there is a natural pause at the bottom that I can rely on. My lungs will always be at the same level of empty, and I will be the most relaxed.

Some have already looked into things like this. Basically, when you’re calm, you can break shots anywhere in your respiratory cycle. As long as you do it consistently in the same part of the cycle, it works. The only two consistent parts of the cycle are the two natural respiratory pauses at the top and bottom.

Where things get weird is when you have to shoot under stress with higher heart rate. When you have a lot of air in your lungs, your heart is beating next to two balloons. This will create more perception of your heartbeat in the reticle.

Bottom of the respiratory cycle gives you several things:

1: a consistent part of the cycle to break on

2: most of the air is out of your lungs so everything is collapsed into as solid and vibration free zone as possible.

Who knows if thats 2/3, 3/4, 7/8, or 15/16ths of your lung capacity, it doesn’t matter. Bottom of your respiratory cycle is where you want to be.

We are a product of our training. So if you don’t train to break at the bottom, you won’t do it under stress. Sure, it will work on a bench, but you’ll start seeing vertical stringing in positional type shots.

 

[OlieTheDog]

How much dry fire time are you dedicating? I’m finding the more I dry fire in different positions, the longer I’m able to shoot when it comes time to do the real thing.

 

[Erno86]

Unless the body needs more oxygen like running or something...the best way to breathe while preparing to break a shot, is breathing in from your nose and expelling the air through your mouth. Also...it puts less stress & pressure on the upper chest & heart if you just breathe through your stomach area, instead of breathing through your upper chest; unless running or something.

 

[OlieTheDog]

Unless the body needs more oxygen like running or something...the best way to breathe while preparing to break a shot, is breathing in from your nose and expelling the air through your mouth. Also...it puts less stress & pressure on the upper chest & heart if you just breathe through your stomach area, instead of breathing through your upper chest; unless running or something.

Do you recommend incorporating a pause to your breathing? I've heard people say they pause at the top, middle, or bottom. I'm too new to really say I've been able to keep my breathing in mind. I'm still in the "Oh I'm so excited I'm about to take a shot" phase and forget to think about where in my breath cycle I am.

 

[Loonhunter]

Rub one out before shooting.
Or, if you’re married, well, you know...

 

[OlieTheDog]

Rub one out before shooting.
Or, if you’re married, well, you know...

Do this while you're at HOME. Ask me how I know. I'm going to miss that range....

 

[Precision Underground]

First, get comfortable with your stock. I always felt like I needed a longer LOP but listened to everyone that said going longer than standard was a bad idea. I finally got fed up and added 3” to it and it was like magic.

Get behind the rifle and try different things to get in a natural, neutral, comfortable position and the. see what needs to happen with your stock to make that the standard set up.

Once you are comfortable mindset is key. You(or I anyway) can NOT be super focused on getting the reticle right where it needs to be and holding it there. Tension city. I have a “detached interest” as if watching something boring on tv. I’m watching for the reticle to get where it needs to get and then sending it with zero effort or thought. Complete subconscious control. I am witnessing it happen. Give your subconscious a goal, watch the bullet impact the target, and then LET your subconscious make that happen. It is amazing how fundamentals become automatic when you can do that.

If your goal is to hold the reticle on target and then squeeze the trigger without moving at the natural respiratory pause and then staying on the rifle to follow through without flintching you will end up tense and in a mess. One goal, watch the bullet impact the target. It’s easy to relax in that mindset.

 

[OlieTheDog]

Once you are comfortable mindset is key. You(or I anyway) can NOT be super focused on getting the reticle right where it needs to be and holding it there. Tension city. I have a “detached interest” as if watching something boring on tv. I’m watching for the reticle to get where it needs to get and then sending it with zero effort or thought. Complete subconscious control. I am witnessing it happen. Give your subconscious a goal, watch the bullet impact the target, and then LET your subconscious make that happen. It is amazing how fundamentals become automatic when you can do that.

Very zen. Me like. When I shot skeet, one of my coaches taught me kind of along the same lines. It was a mental process where you pictured the clays breaking so many times that when you were on the station, you almost didn't care because you had already seen them break. You had trained your mind what image you wanted to see, and were able to let your subconscious move your muscles appropriately.

 

[acudaowner]

rip a big fart it's hard to be tense when you cut a extra large smelly fart in a crowd , and are laughing .

 

[Precision Underground]

Very zen. Me like. When I shot skeet, one of my coaches taught me kind of along the same lines. It was a mental process where you pictured the clays breaking so many times that when you were on the station, you almost didn't care because you had already seen them break. You had trained your mind what image you wanted to see, and were able to let your subconscious move your muscles appropriately.

Yea I used to play in a ton of golf tournaments and golf is so much like shooting it is ridiculous. My mindset is less about the typical zen “picture it happen and it will” and more about get your stupid, conscious mind out of the way and your subconscious can easily do it. It’s the same concept with almost any sport or game. If you think about it and “try” it makes it really hard.

 

[Dthomas3523]

Do you recommend incorporating a pause to your breathing? I've heard people say they pause at the top, middle, or bottom. I'm too new to really say I've been able to keep my breathing in mind. I'm still in the "Oh I'm so excited I'm about to take a shot" phase and forget to think about where in my breath cycle I am.

Take some professional instruction from a reputable instructor known for fundamentals. Jacob Bynum, Frank Galli, Phil Velayo, etc etc.

There’s a natural pause at the bottom of your breathing cycle which is what is pretty much universally accepted and taught as the ideal place to break your shots.

Practice gets ride of the anticipation.

 

[TheGerman]

Its the lack of reps, assuming you're doing things like body positioning, shoulder position correctly and not tensing/pushing your shoulder forward or flinching/anticipating.

You mentioned carbine and pistol. Remember when you started on those and shit felt weird and wasn't as fast? You improved over a lot of reps.

The thing with precision gun is the reps are usually a lot slower. Imagine in the time you take to correctly shooting a 5 shot group, how many carbine or pistol rounds you would have shot off instead.

If you're feeling tense, muscle wise, thats a problem as well as you're muscling the gun. The only muscle you should feel being 'used' when in position is your strong side bicep and lower 3 fingers/wrist area from pulling back on the stock with those fingers and whatever your weak hand is doing to slightly manipulate the rear bag if needed. Thats it.

 

[Precision Underground]

Its the lack of reps, assuming you're doing things like body positioning, shoulder position correctly and not tensing/pushing your shoulder forward or flinching/anticipating.

You mentioned carbine and pistol. Remember when you started on those and shit felt weird and wasn't as fast? You improved over a lot of reps.

The thing with precision gun is the reps are usually a lot slower. Imagine in the time you take to correctly shooting a 5 shot group, how many carbine or pistol rounds you would have shot off instead.

If you're feeling tense, muscle wise, thats a problem as well as you're muscling the gun. The only muscle you should feel being 'used' when in position is your strong side bicep and lower 3 fingers/wrist area from pulling back on the stock with those fingers and whatever your weak hand is doing to slightly manipulate the rear bag if needed. Thats it.

This is exactly what I feel. Fairly strong bicep pull with the last 3 fingers on the strong side. The trick is doing that with a relaxed strong side shoulder. It is a different feel to pull with the bicep without flexing the shoulder.

 

[Erno86]

Sometimes I have a problem with "the yips"...especially while shooting in the standing position.

"Recently my colleagues and I found that increasing activity in the right hemisphere (by clenching
the left fist) actually decreases an athletes ability of choking under pressure."

quote:

Why Do Top Athletes Suddenly Develop “the Yips”—a Tendency to Choke under Pressure?

www.scientificamerican.com

"Dealing with anticipation when shooting"

An Official Journal Of The NRA | Dealing with Anticipation When Shooting

Solving the problem of anticipation while shooting is largely a problem with mindset. Enter the "zen" of shooting and focus your mind with these techniques.

www.shootingillustrated.com