How to carry 3 years worth of ammo in the field

[DeltaP]

I thought this was a pretty innovative way to carry ammunition. Especially when you live off elk for an entire winter in some of the rainiest parts of North America. This was how the Lewis and Clark expedition securely carried their ammunition.

The projectile raw material ( approx 8 lb. pure lead) forms a cylinder for approximately 4 lb. of powder. I am not sure of the powder to lead ratio, but supposedly it was correct for their weapons. The cylinder is then corked and sealed with beeswax. The men carried casting tools for processing their projectiles.

After 3 years of continuously living in the field off the land without resupply, and continuously hunting for their staple of meat, the corps of discovery still had an adequate supply of ammunition when they returned to civilization. The expedition carried 52 to 54 of these when they left, plus their personal loads.

I had never seen this before. Here are a couple of pics taken of the replica at the Fort Clatsop historical site:

 

[vman]

Re: How to carry 3 years worth of ammo in the field

Now that is interesting isnt it!

I cant imagine how much ammo one would cart around these days, especially for 3 years worth... The weight alone of hundreds of brass cases would take its toll let alone the projectiles and powder.

Thanks for the cool find

 

[cav has been]

Re: How to carry 3 years worth of ammo in the field

Interesting stuff! I've read quite a bit on L & C over the years, never saw this. Bet it kept indiscriminate plinking to a minimum.

 

[VKC]

Re: How to carry 3 years worth of ammo in the field

blackpowder guns so they did not have cases or brass to carry. Thanks for pics

 

[BobM]

Re: How to carry 3 years worth of ammo in the field

Very interesting. I'd read about those but had never seen a pic.

 

[LoneWolfUSMC]

Re: How to carry 3 years worth of ammo in the field

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: vman</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I cant imagine how much ammo one would cart around these days, especially for 3 years worth... The weight alone of hundreds of brass cases would take its toll let alone the projectiles and powder.</div></div>

Keep in mind that they were not getting into daily firefights, or target shooting. They were hunting and using their weapons for defense.

It would still be doable with modern equivalents. Figure a couple hundred brass cases per man. Powder, primers and projectiles. Each man could carry a hand press and dies in his personal kit so that if one was damaged or lost ammo could still be made.

Granted the projectiles couldn't pack as easily and you would have to plan on brass loss during a defensive engagement, but anything is possible with ingenuity and will.

I still love to see how the pioneers did things. It's amazing what they accomplished with sweat and desire.

 

[MontanaMarine]

Re: How to carry 3 years worth of ammo in the field

Pretty interesting.


For shitz n giggles,

A lead 54 cal round ball weighs about 230 grains. Plus powder.

A complete cartridge 5.56mm 77gr OTM wighs about 198 grains.

An AR15 with a supply of ammo with TSX bullets would make a fairly good foraging/defense weapon.

 

[splean]

Re: How to carry 3 years worth of ammo in the field

Wow that was pretty innovative. Those were some clever folks.

 

[Platypus]

Re: How to carry 3 years worth of ammo in the field

Technology be damned it certainly shows how the folks of days gone by were getting the job done with a lot less and in a lot worse conditions than what we see today. Those were some hard men, makes me put it into perspective how soft we have gotten. Thank you for sharing this piece of history.

 

[Mk4]

Re: How to carry 3 years worth of ammo in the field

Now that is interesting.

My experience with pure lead is that it generally takes all the temperature setting that a modern electric pot like the Lyman 20 1b/er (top pour or bottom pour) to cast non-wrinkled bullets.

However, I kinda doubt that the L&C armorers really cared... wrinkles or not, just so that it was round.

 

[DeltaP]

Re: How to carry 3 years worth of ammo in the field

Supposedly the beeswax on the seal was sufficient to flux the casting too.

 

[jmorris]

Re: How to carry 3 years worth of ammo in the field

I always found pure lead melted at a lower temperature than when I add other alloys to make the bullets harder. I think the idea is great for a flintlock rifle. For the guys talking about brass you would just carry loaded and sealed ammunition rather than try to keep up with powder and primers, bullets, reloading equipment.

 

[hudsongunner]

Re: How to carry 3 years worth of ammo in the field

Very cool...Thanks for sharing.
Over 400 lbs of lead....poor mules.

 

[brand692]

Re: How to carry 3 years worth of ammo in the field

Interesting.

If you don't learn something new everyday, you are getting dumber. Thanks for sharing!

 

[specopsbrooklyn]

Re: How to carry 3 years worth of ammo in the field

Id have to carry 10 of those lol

 

[sirhrmechanic]

Re: How to carry 3 years worth of ammo in the field

Just finished Stephen Ambrose' book on Lewis and Clark... Undaunted Courage. What an amazing read and a fantastic story of the expedition. Picked it up on a motorcycle trip over part of the Lewis and Clark route this past spring.

I had read the 'Journals of Lewis and Clark' many years ago, but the language of the original was just too hard to follow easily. Ambrose puts it in modern prose and the story is just incredible.

The toughness, resiliance and abilities of that small party (and its co-commanders) is simply inspiring.

One point that stands out... when Americans went to the moon... they knew there was a moon. They had a launch, orbit, transit and landing plan. They were in radio contact with Houston the whole time. And were only gone about 2 weeks. The Lewis and Clark expedition members had no map. No plan (beyond a rough framework) and NO communications with the East. For 4 years. They lived on what they carried, what they hunted... and what they could trade for.

A time of Wooden Ships and Iron men... for sure! Highly recommended read!

Cheers,

Sirhr

 

[thecage]

Re: How to carry 3 years worth of ammo in the field

quite interesting!

 

[jwaj]

Re: How to carry 3 years worth of ammo in the field

Very interesting historical relic.

Rare to find men of such qualification now a days.

 

[Doc Holiday13]

Re: How to carry 3 years worth of ammo in the field

The Lewis and Clark expedition also had air guns so the need for a lot of powder wasn't necessary. For reference, the air gun could penetrate a pine board at 100 yards

 

[former naval person]

Re: How to carry 3 years worth of ammo in the field

They only had a couple of the air guns. Their diet was mostly meat. No vegetarians along the party. Sacagawea helped out when they got to the Pacific coast and showed them the roots and bulbs that the indians ate out there. As I have read the buffalo hunters cast their bullets and loaded their own cartridges using black powder. With a fairly large bore rifle, say a .35 Whelen or .45-70 you could duplicate that with hand tools, a modern smokeless powder, and lots of primers. Casting bullets over a wood fire is tedious, but doable. A 1 to 16 tin to lead alloy in a medium bore will kill anything out there today.

 

[Pat M]

Re: How to carry 3 years worth of ammo in the field

6 bricks(500per) of 22lr = 3,000rds / 1095 days 3yrs + 2.7 rounds per day for food

Thank God for technology

 

[Amacron]

Re: How to carry 3 years worth of ammo in the field

thanks for sharing very interesting