At a minimum, I need a 140 grain option, very preferably a berger hybrid.
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Not be a naysayer, but I will naysay. Jim didn’t fulfill orders for a year. Regardless of the cause.
Your new appreciation means little, or anyone else who appeals to emotion by saying things “Jim did what he could”. Had Jim done what he could (Code for not trusting his partners who perceived an advantage), he would not have suffered the significant defeat that occurred. He would have prevailed without you knowing.
His commitment to his constituents isn’t in question in my response. I agree he communicates an impressive message. That said, his contract allowed for someone to assume something other than what was intended. An anecdotal phone conversation you had with Jim aside, you proceed to the argument of whether or not ‘Merica matters. It is clear that price is most important over where things might be manufactured.
Who among us is ready to spend money and not get what they spend their money for? I am, for 24 months. We need to consolidate resources against those who think their rights are more important than yours.
There was a lot of wording in the statement from Jim, and I want to make sure I understand the intent of the communication.
In summary:
1. Keeping pricing low is affected by the cost of inventory and production capacity.
2. Prime is looking at crowd funding and group buys or "pre-orders" to more accurately forecast demand and then they are able to right size production, procurement, and reduce carrying costs.
3. The benefit of crowdfunding through a group buy, and listing the above calibers is a better cost to those who purchase in this way, they can also plan purchases and you basically have a co-op style ammo group for an undetermined portion of Prime's business. Buyers have availability and cost savings for planning ahead.
Is that basically what is being proposed to us?
If so, I think that is a great idea because we are a niche market. Will they own this segment of the business? No, but serve a dedicated and loyal customer base, absolutley. What is the plan to get a group buy rolling? Do they need help planning?
You don't know shit about me or anyone else here. You would do well to stop assuming you do.No, I am saying I put a value on my time. My free time is more valued than my work time.
if your isn’t your doing something wrong.
I burn a few barrels a year, shoot a lot of matches, Hunt, ski, bla bla bla.. yep I reload, but it cannibalizes other hobbies, life duties etc.
My time is worth something, sounds like your’s isn’t
Using dealers and destributors artificially inflates the price of the goods, as these third parties need to have their margin. It becomes obvious with a bit of practical experience. Direct sales (DTC) model is better for both relatively small size companies and their customers.Why is Prime direct to consumer only? Why not add a dealer/wholesale model so consumers can take advantage of larger companies fullfillment efficiencies? (Particularly in terms of shipping costs?) Not to mention the brand exposure. Outside of our little world, the Prime brand still has comparatively little market penetration.
The problem with your logic is you assume everyone has the same attitude you do about reloading. I personally hate skiing and very much enjoy reloading. Skiing canibilizes my other hobbies like reloading and hunting.No, I am saying I put a value on my time. My free time is more valued than my work time.
if your isn’t your doing something wrong.
I burn a few barrels a year, shoot a lot of matches, Hunt, ski, bla bla bla.. yep I reload, but it cannibalizes other hobbies, life duties etc.
My time is worth something, sounds like your’s isn’t
Better how? Price? Maybe. Sustainability ? Longevity? Consistency? Probably not.Using dealers and destributors artificially inflates the price of the goods, as these third parties need to have their margin. It becomes obvious with a bit of practical experience. Direct sales (DTC) model is better for both relatively small size companies and their customers.
I'm not aware of any retailers interested in selling at 10% margin, unless they decide to dump the product in favor of something else. Just my personal experience...Better how? Price? Maybe. Sustainability ? Longevity? Consistency? Probably not.
And why would it artificially raise price? The hit in profit (margin), may be able to be eaten by prime in exchange for streamlined processes and volume.
Retailers will absolutely sell commodities at 10%-20% margin if that product has other beneifts (driving traffic to the site, market penetration/growth, etc)
edited to add: glad I didn't put down my actual earnings.. lol..you guys are rough.
Nik I agree with you, what I am pointing out is that while I do reload and do shoot thousands of rounds a year, it comes at a much greater cost than most people will acknowledge.LMAO....Go be poor somewhere else. I’ll shut up about my effective hourly rate.
I tend to agree about reloading being anything but cheaper with the exception of large calibers. I built a spreadsheet that tracked a variety of parameters and computed the break even based on your annual round count. I didn’t include an hourly rate for time spent as it is a HOBBY. I don’t track my “lost wages” for shooting or cleaning or drive time to the range.
I find that people that reload are into reloading. I am thankful that companies like PRIME are there to give the rest of us excellent ammo.
Subscription based!
Simply put, Jim Needs our money to make ammunition WE want at a cheaper cost.
I reload too, but if I can order reliable factory ammo for my competition rifle, I can focus on reloading for my other rifles.
I think a Subscription base would be a great Idea. Think "Battle Box" Idea. Receiving orders on a quarterly basses gives Jim 3 months to start delivery. (not sure if this is enough, I'm just starting somewhere) I would say quarterly to reduce the shipping expenses rather than Monthly.
Sign up to receive 1000 rounds (minimum) of XXX ammunition this year. (predetermined load by crowd sourcing polls)
First Year Agreement - This is a First year agreement so Jim knows he sold 1000 rounds to each subscriber. The 2nd year is on a quarterly basis, you pay for an order & you get your ammo 3 months later. You can sign up anytime, but its a 4 payment minimum for the first year.
- Jan 1 pay for first installment
- April 1 - Receive first 250 rds and pay for next installment
- July 1st - Receive 2nd 250 rds & pay for Next
- Oct 1st - Receive 3rd 250 rds & pay for Next
- Jan 1st - Receive 4th 250 rds & pay for Next (if you want to continue)
Minimum Subscribers - Now set a minimum number of participants to get a caliber/load started - 100 subscribed of 1000 rounds gets it kicked off (100,000 round order) and when the subscription drops to below a set number the ordering is terminated and the final rounds are sent out until at-least 100 people are signed up with a first year agreement again.
If you want more that 1000 rounds is great, but 1000 would be a minimum. Plus this gets you through 3 matches a year with zeroing and a little practice.
This way my wife sees a lower payment rather than one big one. I might be able to hide this!
Jay McLean lash
Bulk IS a better deal. But a lot of fellas can't fork out the money for 1000 precision rounds tomorrow. If it were over a year time frame more could sign up for it, And Jim knows the money is coming.Wouldn't the shipping costs on 4 independent shipments through out the year eat up any savings making just buying in bulk the more attractive pricing option?
Using dealers and destributors artificially inflates the price of the goods, as these third parties need to have their margin. It becomes obvious with a bit of practical experience. Direct sales (DTC) model is better for both relatively small size companies and their customers.
Wouldn't the shipping costs of 4 independent shipments through out the year eat up any savings making buying in bulk the more attractive pricing option?
Obviously the math is skewed because I dont know what it would be in the future and with the new prospective program but...
1 case of 6.5 creed is 250 plus shipping makes it 270. x4 times per year makes it 1080.
4 cases of 6.5 creed is 1000 plus shipping makes it 1050.
Thats 30 bucks more to do quarterly than one time. 30/4=7.50 per quarter. The quarterly cases would have to be priced at 250-7.25=242.75 each to break even with a one time purchase. Would that amount of discount really drive that much more business?
I thought subscription based stuff only pays more when people keep paying the subscription without making use of the product.
I run my business for 10 years and know all about it. If it is not true for your business, it simply means we run our businesses in a different manner. And you know absolutely nothing about my business. So, I need your expert like dog needs a fifth leg.Thaat's not true if the manufacturer sux at marketing and distribution. Turning the task over to an expert that will pay in bulk can improve cash flow, create efficiencies and transfer the risk and cost of inventory.
I run my business for 10 years and know all about it. If it is not true for your business, it simply means we run our businesses in a different manner. And you know absolutely nothing about my business. So, I need your expert like dog needs a fifth leg.
Unfortunately, I have to agree with this as I’m one of those that has to go be poor,...well here as it turns out.Bulk IS a better deal. But a lot of fellas can't fork out the money for 1000 precision rounds tomorrow. If it were over a year time frame more could sign up for it, And Jim knows the money is coming.
Perfectly understandable. I feel PRIME should first look in Jack Master idea and also have "Overruns" as an option, when/if available, for guys who may want to have more flexibility. There is no way to make everybody perfectly happy.I'd love to buy cases of PRIME but I've got to support the family, the wife, the house, the car,. and then there is that rifle building addiction, ... If purchases of boxes of PRIME were available in different quantities, sort of in increments like we buy our Black Rifle Coffee Company Java, even as a subscription I bet you might have a winning concept. PRIME would reach and sell way more than by just selling to those who can afford to order cases of that wonderful stuff. Sort of like a "More Bang for the Buck" of the Month Club. My guess is best sellers would be 6.5 Creedmoor, 6 Creedmoor, 6.5 PRC, .308, .300WM, .338 LM. You could even have a membership fee of somewhere under $40.00 which would give you the option of buying cases when the annual bonus comes in, or tax time rolls around and Uncle Sam coughs up the over charge if there is any.
There is never a way to make everybody perfectly happy.Perfectly understandable. I feel PRIME should first look in Jack Master idea and also have "Overruns" as an option, when/if available, for guys who may want to have more flexibility. There is no way to make everybody perfectly happy.
There is never a way to make everybody perfectly happy.
If, lets say, I'm a PRIME, $50 will not do a lot for me. Prime need certain cash flow to run the business, survive and hopefully, expand and prosper.Just a thought.... But I always have bad ones...
I work with a lot of start-ups, most do not ever come out in the light on their own power. Some might have 10-20 years of VC investing and still no product offerings. With that said, some people might be risk adverse, I am. To mitigate that, would it make more sense to pay a "club fee" maybe something people would be willing to risk rather than pre-paying in full?
Lets say I paid $50 year to Join Prime; with that, I was able to order and pay "when shipped" for my case/s of ammo or whatever and I enjoyed a discount. If I didn't pay within in X days of the ammo was ready, I'd loose my deposit and membership for that year. Primes' cost would be offset.
In the current climate, I think it would be hard for people to pre-pay for ammo and hope the system stays together..
Part of the allure for me of not reloading everything, is I can increase my annual turns.. Basically, I don't have to have 32lbs of H4350, 16lbs of Varget and H1000 (plus a ton of other powders) sitting, plus 10-20K in primers because the velocity of the supply stream gets so spotty. Also I can reduce some of the $40 per ship of hazmat fees. Then there is "the who knows" how much brass between loaded, prepped, partially prepped and just shot, waiting for the reload stream.... If, I have 10x tied up in protecting my reloading supply stream, but might be able to cut that by 2/3rds by putting less than that the delta into a solid factory supply stream, it might worth shifting more to factory.... even if I do not account for my time in the reloading picture.
If, lets say, I'm a PRIME, $50 will not do a lot for me. Prime need certain cash flow to run the business, survive and hopefully, expand and prosper.
While your idea is probably looks very reasonable for you as a customer, I think it is a little bit one sided in favor of the customer and does not address manufacturer's objectives.
Just my opinion as a manufacturer.