How does one go about landing on deciding who to build their new custom rifle? I am currently between two fantastic choices between Josh at PVA and the team at MPA if anybody cares to weigh in here. But in general how does one go about choosing a custom builder? For the sake of the exercise- assume lead times are approximately 3-6 months, and the main goal is absolute precision and accuracy.
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How to decide custom gun builder
- Thread starter arm017
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You do your research on end user results and impressions of process. Find out what actual lead time is. Get an estimate of how much it's going to cost and then weigh any cost savings against time savings and decide based on whats most important to you. Pretty much it.
edit: caveat is if you need a specialty builder. i.e. a guy who specializes in a niche style of shooting or used to build rifles for a .gov that you want to clone, etc.
edit: caveat is if you need a specialty builder. i.e. a guy who specializes in a niche style of shooting or used to build rifles for a .gov that you want to clone, etc.
Most choose due to reputation and delivery times. Most of the time I use people I have used for years and I trust and know will do a good job like GA Precision, Crescent Customs and Terry Cross but sometimes I will try someone if I know them and they have or were building a good rep. Josh is one of those people I have taken a chance on after knowing him and shooting matches with him and he didn't let me down. He does great work on the 6.5 Creedmoor barrel I had him put on and also a .223 build he did for me. Have another 6.5 barrel down with him now.
Lots of good smiths out out there so look at the reputations and some advice is that if you can get the parts together before sending them to the smith as that can cut your wait time down drastically as you aren't getting in line for 6-8 month waits for barrels and stocks.
Another up and coming smith is Hunter Phillips working at SK Arms out of TX. Had him do a 6 Creed barrel and he did great work.
Lots of good smiths out out there so look at the reputations and some advice is that if you can get the parts together before sending them to the smith as that can cut your wait time down drastically as you aren't getting in line for 6-8 month waits for barrels and stocks.
Another up and coming smith is Hunter Phillips working at SK Arms out of TX. Had him do a 6 Creed barrel and he did great work.
My first criteria is always a solid track record of reliable, high quality and timely delivery. And by timely, I don't necessarily mean short wait, but an accurate assessment of the final delivery time, even if that's a year away. Second, I try to find a smith who primarily prefers to build guns with components and in a manner at match closest to the final product I want. As rob01 has already stated, there are a number of well established smiths who frequent this board and you'd do well with any of them. Finding one who can match your time preference may be difficult because these builders have a large customer base precisely because of the reasons I stated above. A little patience pays off in the end.
Ah that's a good point with stowing gear.
As I have delved in to the subject, there seemed to be an unspoken "tier/ hierarchy" of quantifying each gunsmith; where only these x handful of individuals are capable of building you that 1/4 minute rifle.
What other metric does one use to judge the quality of a builder beside accuracy and repeat-ability / reputation?
When I had my custom built I basically called everyone and spoke with them. I got quotes and lead times and then wrote out a chart so I could see cost compared to lead time.
In the end I went with Butch's gun builder and had my custom in hand in two weeks. I have gotten groups down to about the half of a dime and everything has worked perfectly.
I can't understand people waiting 6 months plus for a gun to be assembled.
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In the end I went with Butch's gun builder and had my custom in hand in two weeks. I have gotten groups down to about the half of a dime and everything has worked perfectly.
I can't understand people waiting 6 months plus for a gun to be assembled.
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All of the advice listed has been sound.
The one piece I will add is this: when at all possible use a local builder, or one within your acceptable driving range.
There are several reasons for this.
1) it allows you to build a rapport with him.
2) it is very useful after the build if you have issues with something, even if it is 1, 2, 3 years later.
3) it's much easier for them to troubleshoot/fix issues when he says 'stop by and I will take a look at it"
4) not a big item but saves shipping cost and possible damage in transit.
5) many smith's who I have met and worked with are very willing to give you some hands on training with small things which in turn gives you more knowledge in proper use and
care of the item he worked so hard to build just right for you.
6) It also prevents what I call the BS factor. You get your new rifle, grab a box of FGMM or Prime or BH's Match and
head to the range. You shoot 20 rounds and it won't feed for sh*t, maybe you can't get a decent group. A phone call to your builder and he says "it must be you, it shot bug holes for me"
Or if fed smooth as butter when I tested it. Well lets just schedule a little range time, you and I can go shoot it together. Maybe it is just me.
With all of this said I will caution, if you have a local builder and you drop off your parts for a build *Do Not* stop by the shop check to see 'is it done yet'
This will only slow him down on yours or someone else's build. And it doesn't help with item 1) listed above.
Good Luck!
The one piece I will add is this: when at all possible use a local builder, or one within your acceptable driving range.
There are several reasons for this.
1) it allows you to build a rapport with him.
2) it is very useful after the build if you have issues with something, even if it is 1, 2, 3 years later.
3) it's much easier for them to troubleshoot/fix issues when he says 'stop by and I will take a look at it"
4) not a big item but saves shipping cost and possible damage in transit.
5) many smith's who I have met and worked with are very willing to give you some hands on training with small things which in turn gives you more knowledge in proper use and
care of the item he worked so hard to build just right for you.
6) It also prevents what I call the BS factor. You get your new rifle, grab a box of FGMM or Prime or BH's Match and
head to the range. You shoot 20 rounds and it won't feed for sh*t, maybe you can't get a decent group. A phone call to your builder and he says "it must be you, it shot bug holes for me"
Or if fed smooth as butter when I tested it. Well lets just schedule a little range time, you and I can go shoot it together. Maybe it is just me.
With all of this said I will caution, if you have a local builder and you drop off your parts for a build *Do Not* stop by the shop check to see 'is it done yet'
This will only slow him down on yours or someone else's build. And it doesn't help with item 1) listed above.
Good Luck!
No matter who you go with, I would suggest, prior to sending money/parts, that you work with the shop to define a firm delivery date. I am in the middle of a build right now, and I did not get such a commitment... and am becoming frustrated with the amount of time that things are taking. I understand that shit happens and things come up, but I'm several months in and still don't know when to expect to get my rifle.
There have been some solid advice I own a Surgeon Scapel and when the time came to rebarrel I started researching lead times as well as accuracy gaurented . I ended up taking my rifle to West Texas Ordanance and could not be happier, Clayton gutted me 45 days and called 10 days later the rifle is a hammer and and he is local. I have a buddy that has a 6.5-47 that MPA built and it is a shooter as well, today there are a handful of smiths that I would not have a problem having a rifle built by good luck
Yup going into the for sale threads here and buying everything ahead of time can save you months.
Don't get too hung up in the "tiers" as a lot of that is personal preference and perception. Pick a solid smith with a good rep and as mentioned speak to them ahead of time and go over what you want and need and a time frame.
Seems like there are so many good ones around. Ten years ago when this place was blowing up, there were a small handful, and long wait times were a given. It seems like there several times more precision rifle builders now than there were then. You shouldnt have to wait more than a few weeks these days, from any number of people.
I'll throw a name in. Matt Stuart, Stewart rifles. Came recommended by Gradous who was too busy. Excellent to deal with, responsive, did great work, and only took three weeks.
I'll throw a name in. Matt Stuart, Stewart rifles. Came recommended by Gradous who was too busy. Excellent to deal with, responsive, did great work, and only took three weeks.
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One of my biggest deciding factors was communication. I emailed several shops and some never even got back to me and a couple answered the same day or the following day. I figured if they can't get back with me in a reasonable time when I'm trying to get them to take my money then I don't want to do business with them.
One thing to consider is some of the best machinist won't do stock work, and the best stock guys don't install barrels or other machining work. Most of the top guys in either field all have long waits. My 338 was 6 plus months, was it worth the patience, yep! Make sure you convey the details of what you want in writing so there is no miss communication on the details. If you change anything make sure it's in writing, it can save all parties a lot of headaches.
Good Luck! Let us know how it turns out.
Good Luck! Let us know how it turns out.
Thanks Rob, I immensely enjoyed building your rifle for you and I hope it's still hammering.
I've had PVA do some work, Josh was great to deal with and I would call him again if needed. Shawn at Hawk Hill is another good one but I think he is busy making barrels, if you haven't decided on a barrel yet, check those out.
An alternative perspective is to go with an already built rifle from those that offer them. My first precision rifle was built by Accurate Ordinance and sold to someone. I bought mine, new in box, from a guy in the flea market and the gun has been an absolute dream to shoot. Accurate always has a few guns for sale. Mile High shooting has many. A little patience and a little searching of web sites is always a good idea.
If this is your first precision rifle, it really doesn't matter what you get. In a year or two, your wants/needs will change anyway and very few of us can afford buying a new rifle every 6 months just because. ADD is real in the gun world as is the old quote, "beware the man who only owns one gun, chances are he knows how to use it."
If this is your first precision rifle, it really doesn't matter what you get. In a year or two, your wants/needs will change anyway and very few of us can afford buying a new rifle every 6 months just because. ADD is real in the gun world as is the old quote, "beware the man who only owns one gun, chances are he knows how to use it."
I've really had no rhyme or reason as to who i've used, though wait time has influenced that some.. I trust most of the smiths that frequent the hide or have great reputations. There is a pretty big list now a days. George Gardner, Chad Dixon, Jered Joplin, Mark Gordon, Robert Graduous, Josh @ PVA, Josh @ Area 419, Terry Cross, etc. etc. i'm probably leaving plenty out. I used APA for my 700 back in the day, used LRI for my Tempest, have had GAP polish my breaching ring on my Tempest, and having dad's rifle built by Mark Gordon.
FWIW Mark's turn around right now on complete builds isn't bad by any means either. IIRC i sent dad's 6.5 SAUM parts off in July and we're expecting a September delivery or so. That's all parts supplied of course.
I will say if you just need the barreled action spun up and want it now Chad @ LRI pretty much guarantees a 14 day turn around less something has changed. He did my Tempest in exactly 14 days, my buddies deviant in like 10 or so.
FWIW Mark's turn around right now on complete builds isn't bad by any means either. IIRC i sent dad's 6.5 SAUM parts off in July and we're expecting a September delivery or so. That's all parts supplied of course.
I will say if you just need the barreled action spun up and want it now Chad @ LRI pretty much guarantees a 14 day turn around less something has changed. He did my Tempest in exactly 14 days, my buddies deviant in like 10 or so.
After months of deliberation, I decided on Josh at PVA- I went between Aaron Roberts- local guy/ badass, MPA, and PVA. I resonate a lot with Josh's philosophy and mindset, and he seems to be a renaissance man of sorts - where he sets his own trends coupled with a strong obsession to detail is one who I align with. Not to mention, a lead time of approximately 30 days now that he is working PVA full time. Very solid guy.
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