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Gunsmithing How to determine Barrel Top/Bottom

Raven 6

Full Member
Full Member
Minuteman
Oct 29, 2006
1,004
71
Blue Ridge
I've read some of you guys talking about the bore of barrels having a slight arc and determining this so you could line this up at the top or bottom when installing barrel to action. Could someone please explain the procedure of determining where this arc is?

Thanks
 
Re: How to determine Barrel Top/Bottom

Although I'm sure it could be done, I have my doubts any gunsmith threads and head spaces a barrel to time a crown in a barrel. That fucker aught to be straight as it can be.
 
Re: How to determine Barrel Top/Bottom

Once the breech end of the barrel is dialed in to .0002" or less and fitted to the receiver the range rod is inserted into the muzzle end. The stylus of the dial indicator is then placed against the rod and a second reading is taken as the chucked barrel is spun around by hand. The spot with the highest amount of TIR is noted and clocked at 12:00. Timing marks are usually placed on the chuck so this location can be easily repeated. The recevier fit is adjusted until the TDC of the receiver locks up at 12:00. The barrel is now looking up. If this procedure is done prior to crowning, the reading will change as the barrel gets shorter. It's best done after the barrel is cut to length and crowned.

 
Re: How to determine Barrel Top/Bottom

Thanks Roscoe, that was exactly what I was wanting to know, thanks for explanation. One other question, couldn't you place a range rod in the breech end and the muzzle at the same time, run two indicators on the breech end and one on the muzzle and indicate all three together, or will this cause more than your desired .0002 run out?
 
Re: How to determine Barrel Top/Bottom

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: DRAM40A1</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Although I'm sure it could be done, I have my doubts any gunsmith threads and head spaces a barrel to time a crown in a barrel.</div></div>

Smart ones do.
wink.gif
-Al
 
Re: How to determine Barrel Top/Bottom

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Al Nyhus</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Smart ones do.
wink.gif
-Al </div></div>

I was gonna say the same thing
 
Re: How to determine Barrel Top/Bottom

wnroscoe, do you use a cathead on the rear of the spindle? If so do you mark the barrel for timing before adjusting the cathead? (I'm imagining this is how it would have to work?)
 
Re: How to determine Barrel Top/Bottom

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Brodie</div><div class="ubbcode-body">wnroscoe, do you use a cathead on the rear of the spindle? If so do you mark the barrel for timing before adjusting the cathead? (I'm imagining this is how it would have to work?) </div></div>

Yes, other wise known as an outboard spider.

The method I use to indicate barrels dictates use of the outboard spider. When doing the breech work I work by the breech end only using the four jaw and spider to indicate the barrel. The muzzle is worked the same way but only after the barrel is changed around in the lathe. I work at the chuck, in the headstock, for all operations.

The range rod is read at two spots to achieve this, one at the breech and one about .250" from the opposite end of the rod. To make the rod run true at the breech I adjust the chuck and to make the opposite end of the rod run true I adjust the spider. Once running .0002" or tighter I thread and fit the barrel to the receiver but don’t cut the bolt nose recess. At this point, the timing mark I spoke of earlier is lined back up and if needed, cuts are made to the barrel shoulder to allow the receiver to screw on farther if needed until TDC of the receiver is at 12:00.

With quality barrels, the most TIR I've seen at the muzzle after all is indicated is .010", about the thickness of a standard business card. This is one of the major reasons why I only promote two barrel manufacturers on my WWW.

I've installed barrels from just about all of them. Based on my own personal observations and experiences, Krieger and Bartlien are the most consistent barrels on the market, PERIOD!! Barrel to barrel, both makers barrels machine the same, every time. Consistency is the name of the game and both have it down to a science. Look at the 1000 yard BR results and equipment list from the Williams Port 1000 yard results. Accuracy is accuracy and the results speak volumes.
 
Re: How to determine Barrel Top/Bottom

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: DRAM40A1</div><div class="ubbcode-body">That's just an opinion and I could be wrong. hehehe. </div></div>

I've always been told that opinions were like assholes, everybody has one and they all stink.LOL. I had no idea a smith could be this precise so I'll keep my asshole to myself from now on.hehehehe.
 
Re: How to determine Barrel Top/Bottom

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: DRAM40A1</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I had no idea a smith could be this precise </div></div>

You'd be amazed as to what actually goes into building a precision long range or BR rifle when it's built the right way. Just to put tolerances into perspective for you;

The average human hair is .002" thick
Clear scotch tape is .002" thick
Masking tape .005"
Business Cards .010"

We (precision rifle smiths) work with tolerances of .0002" or tighter (smaller) that’s 1/10th or less of a human hair
wink.gif

 
Re: How to determine Barrel Top/Bottom

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Triple 6</div><div class="ubbcode-body">It's something you have to work with daily to understand how big a differance something as small as .0002 makes. </div></div>

In a perfect world we'd indicate to a true .0000" but like I said, in a perfect world
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Once cuts are made, if the indicator was placed against the cut as to read the TIR, it should read .0000" if the finish was good / clean.
 
Re: How to determine Barrel Top/Bottom

I watched a smith indicate a chamber once while the front of the barrel (excuse my terms!!) stuck out the backside of the lathe. When he turned the lathe I was amazed how much the front of the barrel was wobbling around.

Then he did the excact on the front to indicate the muzzle. So I guess its start straight...whatever happens in the middle happens, and exit straight.
 
Re: How to determine Barrel Top/Bottom

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: DRAM40A1</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I had no idea a smith could be this precise.....</div></div>

It's advantageous to index the high/low to the 12:00/6:00 position for ease of tuning. Tuning the vertical out is much easier when it actually appears 'on target' in the vertical plane. If the high/low ends up in another clocking position, the barrel may show it's 'vertical' in other ways.....feel free to connect <span style="text-decoration: underline">those </span> dots.
wink.gif


Pun intended.
smile.gif
 
Re: How to determine Barrel Top/Bottom

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Cigarcop</div><div class="ubbcode-body">So I guess its start straight...whatever happens in the middle happens, and exit straight. </div></div>

Ding..Ding...Ding

We have a winner. That’s exactly what happens and the stance you have to take. Get the bullet started straight and let it exit straight. You have no control over what happens in the middle so it's irrelevant.

Thats why we only work on one end of the barrel at a time.