Rifle Scopes How to effectively run a moa/mil scope?

[m1ajunkie]

I have been reading and understand why a scope with matching knobs/ reticle is preferred, but both scopes I am using are mil reticle and moa knobs.

I am looking for links or tips on how to effectively run a scope set up like mine. This past saturday I shot in my first precision match in winds holding steady at about 10mph from the 10 o clock, with gusts over 20mph.

What I did is input the zero I had nearest the range we were shooting in moa, then calculated the holdover needed in mils to use with my reticle to get hits. Is there a better way to do this, or am I on the right track as is?

As far as windage, on my range card I recorded in mils where to hold in a full value 10mph wind. Then fired a shot and if it was a miss, adjusted as needed.

 

[RobertB]

Re: How to effectively run a moa/mil scope?

I have a 3 guns with mil/moa, I have drop charts for them as well with holds in mill and comeups in MOA, I have MOA on all of my rifles that get good use but 2 of my hunting rifles have the mismatched scopes. I usually dont take shots on game that are very long so it is an non issue with me but when I started long range shooting I had to use mil/moa. At the time I dialed everything but as time went on I learned the MOA system and just looked at mills in MOA. (1 mill is roughly 3.6 MOA)and this is probably not the best method but I still had holds for both.When you get a matching scope then you will get rid of one system. If your ranging with the reticle then it doesn't matter but for wind and elevation it will just be easier and quicker with matching systems. Good luck

 

[thedarkside]

Re: How to effectively run a moa/mil scope?

I have run into this before as well. I probably dont have the best system and I believe it is shooter preference but I find it easiest to dial in MOA for wind and comeups simply because converting the math quickly is more pain than it is worth. I prefer to shoot with MOA dialed and if need be use holds in MILs for follow ups. That being said I also shoot using only MILs often so I can be comfortable knowing the holds for different distances and winds.

 

[Quickdraw40]

Re: How to effectively run a moa/mil scope?

Dial MOA for ele, hold MIL for wind.

 

[flyrodder]

Re: How to effectively run a moa/mil scope?

I have my range cards in MOA and dial both elevation and wind in using that, but will use MILs for quick follow up shots. I have also done the math for follow up shots, especially if I am then gonig to let someone else shoot at range.

I am still amazed that any manufacturer, especially notable ones, would have ever mixed MILs and MOA on a scope, and even more amazed that the practice continues.

 

[TEAMSENDIT]

Re: How to effectively run a moa/mil scope?

all mine are mil/mil but if i needed to run your way i would recommend running a dope card that has elev. in moa and windage in both mil and moa. that way you can make you intial wind call in moa and then correct for misses with the mil reticle. i have found that in in 10+mph winds i prefer to dial my wind call and then hold for corrections. it is just a weird feeling to hold 4 mils of wind in your reticle.

 

[ccoker]

Re: How to effectively run a moa/mil scope?

I got to test this first hand this weekend
had 2 identical (almost) scopes
M4 TMR 4.5-14.5x50

1 SFP and M1 MOA knobs
The other, FFP and M5 mil knobs

I had a chart with both mil and MOA values for out to 1K
Targets were 250, 500, 750 and 1K

Both were new scopes being dialed in..
The SFP model had been zeroed at 100 yards.

After shooting for about an hour with the SFP version and having to keep referencing the chart for mil to MOA I got fed up and mounted the FFP version, removed bolt, bore sighted at the 250 yard with my eye and dialed the scope in to the same plate using the 1 Mil line below the center crosshair which gave me my 100 yard zero.

After about 4 shots I was on and moved out to 500, 750 and 1K

The rest of the day was with the FFP/mil/mil
To me, it was SO much easier and like the other poster said, why in the world would they EVER make a mismatched turret/reticle system is beyond me.. it makes zero sense whatsoever to me. Mil or MOA is personal preference though I do find Mil easier personally.

I found I could easily use the reticle at 250 or 500 and dialed to 750 and 1K
Or I could dial in at 250 or 500, but it was so simple and fast and with the FFP it didn't matter which power setting I was on (say I backed off from max for a bigger field of view at 250 moving between targets fast and then moved out to 500)

 

[azimutha]

Re: How to effectively run a moa/mil scope?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: RobertB</div><div class="ubbcode-body">(1 mill is roughly 3.6 MOA)</div></div>
Not a biggie, but you might be thinking of the 3.6 number because a mil is 3.6" @ 100 yards. A mil is 3.4 MOA. A quick way to convert MOA to mils is to drop any decimals, multiply times 3, then move the decimal point over one place, e.g. 10.8 MOA * 3 = 30 = 3 mils. Since the actual is 3.1 mils, you'd be off 1.8" @ 500 yards. This will work better if your dope card is in MOA, not 1/4 MOA.

Meanwhile, save up for a scope with matching turrets and reticle.

 

[sch2046]

Re: How to effectively run a moa/mil scope?

are there benefits to MOA MOA turret and Reticle or MIL MIL reticles? I have two Leupolds bothh are MOA knobs, mil reticle. Is it just the hold overs that matter when having mis matched turret and reticle? I am new to long range shooting and this has been a topic of interest as I am looking for a new scope for a new build.

 

[m1ajunkie]

Re: How to effectively run a moa/mil scope?

From what I've been reading, having a scope that matches eliminates some math work.

For instance, in our match saturday we were shooting at 535yds. My range card has zeroes for 500 and 550yds, but not anything in between. (I am running an SDM Ar that I normally shoot man sized steel with). The targets we were shooting ranged from 4-10" so having a more precise zero mattered. I used my 500yd zero, and then found the moa that I needed to come up to get 535 and converted that to mils to hold over in my scope. This worked very well assuming I had time to work it out before hand.

I have never used a matching scope, but if your reticle matched the knobs, you would simply hold over the difference on your range card. As far as ranging, I have read that either moa or mils gets the job done.

Someone correct me if I am wrong as I have no experience with a matching optic.

 

[kiterme]

Re: How to effectively run a moa/mil scope?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: azimutha</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: RobertB</div><div class="ubbcode-body">(1 mill is roughly 3.6 MOA)</div></div>
Not a biggie, but you might be thinking of the 3.6 number because a mil is 3.6" @ 100 yards. A mil is 3.4 MOA. A quick way to convert MOA to mils is to drop any decimals, multiply times 3, then move the decimal point over one place, e.g. 10.8 MOA * 3 = 30 = 3 mils. Since the actual is 3.1 mils, you'd be off 1.8" @ 500 yards. This will work better if your dope card is in MOA, not 1/4 MOA.

Meanwhile, save up for a scope with matching turrets and reticle. </div></div>

Both approximately 3.4 inches and 3.6 inches are correct. The number 3.438 is the one to use for your calculations.

Remember that MOA and Mil when used in shooting and artillery are not the same as when used in other fields. The values have been adjusted slightly for practical application.

True MOA is 1.047+ inch at 100 yards. Shooters MOA (S-MOA) is 1.0 inch at 100 yards.
True Mils are 6283 / circle. Military Mils are 6400 / circle.

1 mil at 100 yards is 3.6 inches which is 3.438 True MOA.

See page 54 of ntc.doe.gov/docs/NTOA%20Seminar.ppt for a graphic from Leupold.

 

[kiterme]

Re: How to effectively run a moa/mil scope?

See also http://mil-dot.com for more good info on using Mils.

 

[kiterme]

Re: How to effectively run a moa/mil scope?

Are there any manufacture reps out there that can explain why they make mixed MOA/Mil?

 

[sniperaviator]

Re: How to effectively run a moa/mil scope?

I'm not a factory rep but I believe I know the answer.

It was believed mil reticle and moa elevation and windage knobs was 'best of both worlds'.

Mils were best for ranging because it was EXACTLY 1 in 1000.
Moa was best for windage because for a 308, APPROXIMATE windage for 10mph wind was 1moa at 100 yards, 2moa at 200 yards....10moa at 1000 yards. So easy even a jar head could do it!

MOA was best for elevation because 1" at 100 yards was 1moa, a 2" at 200 yards was 1moa...10" at 1000 yards was 1moa etc.