PRS Talk How to progress?

[bbyars]

Ive shot a total of 7 local matches this past year and started somewhere in the bottom 25% of shooters and have progressed to finishing in the top 25% of shooters at local matches(75% of total match points). I feel like ive hit a plateau of mediocrity at this point. I don't really find myself struggling with ever being too slow as i have not timed out since i first started shooting this game and usually finish a stage with plenty of time left over. One of my goals moving foreword this season is to try to settle more into positions to make more solid shots instead of racing the clock. Almost all the top competitors that are winning use tripods a lot for rear support, this is another thing i want to practice more this year. I understand that you cannot buy experience and just have to put in the time. Other than working positional stuff and putting in the trigger time, what have you worked on that has produced results in your shooting performance?

 

[DFOOSKING]

Shoot with the shooters that place higher than you. Glean what you can from them. Like practice with them....not just compete.

You might also be surprised how higher placing squads perform (as in managing tasks) versus the other squads.

Don't underestimate the work/time/expense that your peers are putting forward in some cases. You might be surprised to find they spend 5X in materials and 5X in time. More time in tuning loads, more time in evaluating support gear, more money buying spare barrels/bullets, more time on gathering dope and training. Some people just can't put that level of money/time in. Keep your expectations in check is basically what I'm saying.

 

[Northfl]

If you arent timing out but leaving points on the board slow down. 8 hits and timing out is way better than 10 misses with time left on the clock. The speed will come back as well.
As i say this i have to make myself slowdown. Still have that “ have to get all 10 shots off “ in my head.

 

[Rio Precision Gunworks]

If you haven't had a good fundamental class or you know you need work (if you can't name the fundamentals off the top of your head, that's a good sign you could benefit from a class).....then go to a Frank/Sniper's Hide, Rifles Only, or Modern Day Sniper fundamentals class. Take all three if you can. Always helps to have different viewpoints from different instructors.

If you think you're pretty shored up on fundamentals, then look into a JTAC class. And you can obviously find a lot of tips and such on YouTube and elsewhere.


Otherwise, you're going to get a bunch of good advice, but in bits and pieces by asking here on the forum. As none of us are there with you to evaluate and see what you need. So we'll just be throwing a lot of suggestions against the wall.


Generally speaking, if your fundamentals are solid, you can almost never go wrong using a PRS barricade at 100yds shooting 1" dots with build and break positions on the clock. But, again, if your fundamentals aren't very good, you'll just be training yourself to shoot incorrectly and doing more harm than good.

 

[Rio Precision Gunworks]

Just to make a point......PRS and like events are very simple. You build stable fundamentally sound positions and break fundamentally sound shots. Your fundamentals allow you to see where your shots are impacting an make the proper adjustments.

It's literally that simple. So, if you're practicing or looking for overly complicated things, you're barking up the wrong tree. You can be fairly terrible at things like reading wind and still perform very well at matches. Then you can start working on things that make a difference for the top shooters like getting the correct first round impacts due to wind reading.

 

[bbyars]

I do usually shoot with people that are better than myself and have become pretty comfortable with shooting off really any obstacle/prop on a course but really need to be better about making notes indicating why i missed on the course of fire sheets. As far a fundamentals of shooting go, i am no 10,000 hrs guy but believe i have a pretty solid foundation. I think it was said earlier but i know i do sacrifice some stability for speed, but dont know how exactly you practice being slower. Best thing ive seen on Youtube was either Keith Baker or Francis Colon doing a drill for time at like 50% speed with 100% impacts then increasing til until a miss and backing off. It might be me being "green" but on match days i find it hard to go slow. I can see most all of the impacts depending on mirage or target location. I know the present goal while on match day should be start every stage new and try to clean it....

When i was new, i would gain some kind of insight and pick up on little things here and there throughout the matches but it seems like the last couple of matches have been pretty much the same without anything to pick up on, could just be me being oblivious. I really only practice shooting off of an A-frame ladder shooting out to 600yds on an 8" diamond or 6" circle moving up and down the steps for positional practice. The range i practice at does not have any props as i have to bring my own, hence the ladder. The range itself goes out to 1000yds and have steel almost at every 100yds.

 

[Rio Precision Gunworks]

I do usually shoot with people that are better than myself and have become pretty comfortable with shooting off really any obstacle/prop on a course but really need to be better about making notes indicating why i missed on the course of fire sheets. As far a fundamentals of shooting go, i am no 10,000 hrs guy but believe i have a pretty solid foundation. I think it was said earlier but i know i do sacrifice some stability for speed, but dont know how exactly you practice being slower. Best thing ive seen on Youtube was either Keith Baker or Francis Colon doing a drill for time at like 50% speed with 100% impacts then increasing til until a miss and backing off. It might be me being "green" but on match days i find it hard to go slow. I can see most all of the impacts depending on mirage or target location. I know the present goal while on match day should be start every stage new and try to clean it....

When i was new, i would gain some kind of insight and pick up on little things here and there throughout the matches but it seems like the last couple of matches have been pretty much the same without anything to pick up on, could just be me being oblivious. I really only practice shooting off of an A-frame ladder shooting out to 600yds on an 8" diamond or 6" circle moving up and down the steps for positional practice. The range i practice at does not have any props as i have to bring my own, hence the ladder. The range itself goes out to 1000yds and have steel almost at every 100yds.

What classes have you attended in the past?

 

[bbyars]

Absolutely zero, everything i have learned now is self taught or picked up from peers.

 

[Sheldon N]

I think it was said earlier but i know i do sacrifice some stability for speed, but dont know how exactly you practice being slower.

Try this drill, it's a great way to practice being "slower" in the right places.

 

[Jarhead94]

Take a look back at your match books and see how your short game is doin, say 500 and in. If your hit percentage is high, your fundamentals are probably solid. Any missed shots beyond that 500 are most likely your inability to make good wind calls. What has happened is that you have hit a plateau with your wind calls shooting in the 75 percentile range. Most everyone at a match can shoot really good, it's the wind calls that separates you, me, and many others from the top shooters. I usually shoot 75 to 85 % as well, and I'm certain all my misses are from bad wind calls, not my gun, scope, ammo or fundamentals.

 

[Sblzrd65]

If you haven't had a good fundamental class or you know you need work (if you can't name the fundamentals off the top of your head, that's a good sign you could benefit from a class).....then go to a Frank/Sniper's Hide, Rifles Only, or Modern Day Sniper fundamentals class. Take all three if you can. Always helps to have different viewpoints from different instructors.

If you think you're pretty shored up on fundamentals, then look into a JTAC class. And you can obviously find a lot of tips and such on YouTube and elsewhere.


Otherwise, you're going to get a bunch of good advice, but in bits and pieces by asking here on the forum. As none of us are there with you to evaluate and see what you need. So we'll just be throwing a lot of suggestions against the wall.


Generally speaking, if your fundamentals are solid, you can almost never go wrong using a PRS barricade at 100yds shooting 1" dots with build and break positions on the clock. But, again, if your fundamentals aren't very good, you'll just be training yourself to shoot incorrectly and doing more harm than good.

Yup. Can always take a ladder to the range and practice shooting off the different rungs. Roughly: standing, bent over, one knee, crowned on two knees, and high yoga prone. Go for groups on each of them. A benefit then is you'll also see and measure how groups look. So if you come up to a prop that looks like X and in your mind you know normally on X my groups looks like Y it'll give a frame of reference.

 

[OREGUN]

At matches, slow down and hit more shots. You can’t miss fast enough to win. Otherwise:

Shoot at 1” diamonds at 100 yds from every conceivable position until your positional groups are as small as your prone groups. That will teach you more about fundamentals than anything else….assuming you have a basic understanding. It will also teach you about your zero and build your confidence. Remember, beginners practice tricks and experts practice fundamentals.

Stop shooting at distant targets until the above paragraph is accomplished. Until you shoot under 1” from any position, you have no idea why you missed at 600 yards.

Read “with winning in mind” by Lanny Basham and change your thinking.

Take a JTAC class.

Dry fire every day. It improves your target acquisition and most fundamentals except recoil management.

Develop a process that takes you from load and make ready through follow through. Practice it relentlessly. Know it without having to think. It will reduce mental mistakes and provide a framework of support when you are stressed.

My process for example goes:
Magazine
Turrets
Wind
Target
Focus
Anchor
Ground
Position
Level
Sight picture
Breath
Trigger press
Follow through
Evaluate
Dial
Move
Restart at Ground

Each of those things mean something specific to me, and I do exactly the same thing on every stage.

Good luck. Keep your face on the gun as they say.

 

[Rio Precision Gunworks]

Absolutely zero, everything i have learned now is self taught or picked up from peers.

Now, ask yourself how many people good at any game or sport got there without any coaches, trainers, classes.....etc? The answer is almost always zero.

I don't mean this directly to you or an insult. Just making a point that things like PRS is one of the few things people seem to want to attempt to do completely home grown. And that's just not how most anything works.

Find some competent instruction, tear your fundamentals down and build them back up. I promise you'll be significantly better after.

 

[Rio Precision Gunworks]

Take a look back at your match books and see how your short game is doin, say 500 and in. If your hit percentage is high, your fundamentals are probably solid. Any missed shots beyond that 500 are most likely your inability to make good wind calls. What has happened is that you have hit a plateau with your wind calls shooting in the 75 percentile range. Most everyone at a match can shoot really good, it's the wind calls that separates you, me, and many others from the top shooters. I usually shoot 75 to 85 % as well, and I'm certain all my misses are from bad wind calls, not my gun, scope, ammo or fundamentals.

I can promise if you're missing 15-25 shots per 100 shots taken, consistently......it's not your wind calls. That's an average of 1.5-2.5 shots per 10 shot stage.

You'd have to be shooting either very switchy wind or very small targets......consistently. Very, very few people are consistently shooting in matches this difficult.

Fundamentals will get you much closer to 90% than 75%. Wind is the absolute most overrated skill for non very top pack shooters.


Now, if you have a bad strategy on how to correct for wind or how you bracket wind, that can affect things a decent amount. But actual wind calls is not the reason you drop 25%.

 

[KnowNothing256]

OP sounds a lot like me. If that’s the case, here’s the advice I’d give to myself a year ago:

- Log the reason for every miss, then look for patterns.
- Read Bassham’s book. In particular, I learned I need to change my mindset to address things like jitters, mental overload, and rushing. Now my mantra is “I clean stages,” which isn’t 100% true of course, but it gets my expectations of my behavior (not my outcomes) up to that standard.
- Don’t shoot if I have wobble. Like, any wobble at all. There are valid objections to this advice, but for me, I was too focused on the clock so I would settle for wobble and shoot with instability. Now I’m getting better at saying “No, I don’t like that. No shot, change my body first.”

There are a lot of other things, and it’s possible that me a year ago wasn’t actually ready for this advice, but these three large categories of things have been the biggest change in my recent performance.

Good luck, and take a class (I already had a year ago). And if I can be a bit blunt, respectfully, you (like me, for entirely too long) seem a little too confident that you’re doing most things correctly. You need to find a way to leave that mindset at the house before you get in the car to go to a class; you can’t get your full money’s worth if in your mind you’re disagreeing with the instructor’s approach, or if you think you’ve already “arrived.” Ask me how I know.

 

[ToddKS]

Invest in a JTAC class. The cost may seem expensive but it will save you money in the long run.

It was one of the best investments I have made in my shooting.

 

[Emerson0311]

I do this now that I’m bumping up against the podium locally.
Review each stage of the matches you have shot in practiscore. Score each stage individually vs the stage winner. Along with your notes /memories from match day you will see how you are deficient vs the winner of each stage. You will probably find a couple common themes where you fall short the most. Correct those. New fuckups will appear. Fix those. Continue until you win most days or get tired and move onto something else. Good coaching saves a lot of time figuring things out for yourself.

 

[Sblzrd65]

One thought on timing, when bringing the ladder to the range, which is awesome, maybe add in a timer (even the app on your phone.) Set it for similar to stages. Then see if you can try and recreate timing and movement similar to a match.

 

[mikeg1005]

I'm going to preface this by saying I'm only 1 year into PRS (which I've improved pretty well and looking forward to this season) but I spent the last decade + getting into the top ranks in USPSA and there's a ton of overlap into this game if you want to get "good".

Seems like a lot of guys here will cover the PRS technical stuff better than me so I'll leave that to them...but here's what you need to work on if you're not.

Dry fire and build positions, set a schedule and stick to it even if it's only 15-20mins a day.

At minimum, functioning gun, ammo that shoots well. If this is an issue get it resolved as that's 100% in your control...once you have it set to where it's consistent, leave it. I've watched people show up to matches with pistols that jammed match after match and they're upset with their performance over something theyre 100% able to fix or continously tinkering with shit to find perfection that doesn't do anything for the game.

Get on squads with the best shooters in your area as much as you can. Being exposed to good shooters will elevate your skills and expose you to a wealth of knowledge and give you the ability to ask questions. We've had middle road guys get on the super squad with us at matches and have some of the best major match finishes they ever had. You see stuff that you can't hear on podcasts or watch on videos.

Take notes at all your practices and all your matches, in detail. Write down what you did well and why at a match and what you failed on and why. Over time you're going to develop a data base of what your 'issues' are that are causing you to hit a plateau and what you need to work on vs. what you're good at. In addition this will also help you in a match to determine what you can be more aggressive on to gain positions (since you you're good at it) and what is not your strong suit and need to focus on more to not tank stages.

Make sure your completely honest with yourself in all of this. Sometimes people downplay their mistakes or inflate their successes beyond what they actually are.

If you're going to practice with other people make sure they're on the same page as you are with improving themselves. It's usually better to practice alone vs. with people who are just going through the motions.

Start approaching everything in PRS with an "I can do this because I'm good at _____." Attitude vs. a "oh no I usually mess this up." It seems like it doesn't matter at face value but if you watch closely you can see that people with positive attitudes, especially after they make a mistake end up placing higher compared to those who are always negative.

Lanny Basshams book is really good on the 2 items above. Worth reading if you need more detail on this.

Since you said you're in the top 25%, instead of chasing the top guys set your goals on getting to a number of hits that is attainable for you but with challenge, get to the top with stepping stones is more consistent way to finish better as you never know what score someone's going to have on a given day or whose showing up. I haven't shot PRS enough to get the exact threshold yet but there's a point/percentage where the difference between the most top guys and the ones just below them is executing things the same level all the time vs. heroing/zeroing. Get to that skill level and then work on repeating it over and over is the way to get to the top.

I never took training for USPSA but there are so many more people in general training than there was 10 years ago across the whole shooting sports spectrum and social media helps you find them compared to before. If you can't correct something yourself, definitely consider it to save time.

Hope that helps.