How to tell when barrel is shot out?

[m1ajunkie]

I've got a 6cm that I've run in several PRS matches, I estimate the round count to be in the 1000 ball park. Now I know 6cm is supposed to be hard on barrels, but I'm not sure how to tell when one is shot out, as I've never experienced it before.

I had the rifle chambered for, and have shot the copper creek 105 berger hydrid factory load exclusively. The rifles has historically been a .5-.75moa shooter, but that's about the best I can do. The past couple times I've taken the rifle out, I've struggled to achieve .75moa, and most of the time groups end up in the 1-1.25moa range.

Is this a sign the barrel is shot out? I have the capability to handload, I'm thinking what if I got some of the sierra 110 smks, and loaded them long? Would that help me chase the rifling to try and get my accuracy back?

Should I just send it off for rebarreling?

 

[IanHusaberg]

If you cleaned it and it is still shooting poorly it may be a sign? Find a bore scope and take a peak down the tube.

 

[Fursniper]

Well, a degradation of accuracy is certainly a sign that things are starting to go south. Have you measured the change in distance to the lands from when the barrel was new? Having that information would be a starting point, preferably the same saved bullet you used to identify the CBTO in the first place. So, you have no additional capacity to set your current 105 out a little further? Being as it's a "factory" load, I suspect it's seated deep enough that if you were to handload you've got room to extend the bullet out further. I'd get a Hornady OAL guage, the 6mm bushing and a modified 6mm case and get a measurement to the lands as a first step. Additionally, there's always the 115 vld berger to try as well. I suspect if you start handloading you can squeeze some more life out of that barrel.

 

[diverdon]

Usually when accuracy starts to fall off the first time, you clean the barrel, refoul it then see how it shoots.

 

[Darkside-Six]

All the barrels I have shot out the accuracy didn't really do down at all but my velocity did. Loads still shot lights out but speed dropped dramatically over a short period of time. I'm not a 6m shooter so have no idea what the barrel life is but I'd give it a good cleaning and see how it shoots after it gets fouled back up.


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[m1ajunkie]

Thanks for the replies guys, I can't remember the last time I thoroughly cleaned this rifle. I'll do that first. In the meantime, I'll get a measurement to the lands and compare with where I'm at. Unfortunately I didn't take this measurement when it was new as I'd decided just to shoot the copper creek load.

 

[IanHusaberg]

Do you have a chronograph? If the Avg. speed of your bullet starts to change. Slower FPS is a sign its going south?

 

[djarecke]

Your 100 yard group may look good, but 500 yards and up looks like a shotgun pattern. SD's are up, muzzle velocity is down. 1000 - 1500 rounds seems to be the going rate for hopped up 6mm's.

 

[m1ajunkie]

Yes, I've got a chrony but I didn't think to check speeds last time I was at the range.

Given the 1000-1500 expected life of a 6cm, I'm fairly tempted to go ahead and rebarrel now given the number of matches coming up this year I want to shoot.

 

[canezach]

My old DTA 243 barrel was done in around 1500 rounds. Accuracy was decent, but groups had opened up slightly. Velocity was the most noticeable deficiency. Loads that were in the upper 2900 range (don't remember exactly, but 2970 sounds right) were suddenly in the low 2900s, then upper 2800s.

 

[FatBoy]

I would start with a good cleaning, using flitz or JB paste. Pay particular attention to the throat. A carbon ring can cause all kinds of pressure issues and jacket damage. I would also check the crown for damage, check scope base screws, verify parallax, etc. before I did a re-barrel. I don't know what powder they use in the CC ammo. If it's something like h4350, you could be shot out. It would have to be pretty bad to see at 100 yards though.

that said, at 1000 rounds down the pipe you should probably have a barrel on order.

 

[morganlamprecht]

All the barrels I have shot out the accuracy didn't really do down at all but my velocity did. Loads still shot lights out but speed dropped dramatically over a short period of time. I'm not a 6m shooter so have no idea what the barrel life is but I'd give it a good cleaning and see how it shoots after it gets fouled back up.


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this is what i see, my last 2 barrels that i retired from major matches...

6.5 creed, went from 2850 fps at 1 match to 2815 fps before the next match, and to 2800 fps at the end of it, all with the same batch of ammo...still shot ragged holes though...cleaning did nothing for it...took it to my smith and we set the chamber back .100"...same batch of ammo, velocity right back up to 2845 fps

6 comp, went from 2975 with 115s to 2935 from 1 match to the next...still shoots great...havent shot it since that match to see how much more its slowed down

 

[redneckbmxer24]

It sounds like you need to bed the throat.

 

[Greg Langelius *]

The first thing would be to give the barrel a good soaking/cleaning. That's just a basic first step when doing troubleshooting.

Then, I'd reestablish the bullet-rifling jump distance. If the jump was short or nonexistent, and throat wear took place in a significant way, then the pressure surge that accompanies rifling contact will be absent. This will alter the ignition characteristics, and the likeliest consequence will be reduced velocity and extended bore transit time; so the cartridge will now be performing O/O the harmonics requirements of the barrel.

Reestablishing the jump/no jump distance to where it was originally should restore original performance. If It doesn't, try increasing the powder charge in small increments; but don't make major changes there, or exceed published max.

This will not 'restore' the barrel, but it can often extend its useful life.

A shot out throat does not necessarily equate to a shot out barrel. A cut and rechamber can do more than just restore the throat. The original bore wear usually causes a taper to develop withing the bore, and this can sometimes increase the basic accuracy potential of the barrel. With a new chamber/throat and a recrown, the barrel will need to have its load redeveloped, but being shorter, it will be somewhat stiffer, and may turn into a better barrel than it was originally.

This all takes time and money, and there is still an 'if' factor involved. Try the steps mentioned in the first two paragraphs. If you get some performance restoration, you're ahead of the game. When the performance goes again, the barrel is likely done. If it was an expensive precision barrel to begin with, it may be worth taking my advice further. Before committing to more work, get the barrel bore scoped by a professional. If the rifling is washing out, go no further.

Greg

 

[308Gunner]

^^^^ Listen to him

 

[morganlamprecht]

the main thing you need to do is figure out what "shot out" means to you and your uses...

for me, the barrel has to do the same thing its been doing for its life...if i point it at a target and expect a bullet to come out of the barrel at 2850 fps...it better come out at 2850 fps all else being similar

my current 6mm did this for 1950 rounds...ive seen 4 (including my own), 6.5 barrels quit doing this in less than 1500 rounds...different brands, different shooters...just bad luck or bad steel

my 28 nosler has been doing it for 550 rounds now...my 308 for probably 3-4k, i quit counting, but its a quite a bit...

when my last 6.5 died on me in a 1moa diamond local match, i went 3/15 for the first 3 stages trying to figure out why it was off...once i strapped the chrono on, got the velocity tracked down, and lined back up...went 8/10 on the last 2...if this would have been on an animal, could have made for a bad shot

i cant adjust my seating depth or add powder in the middle of a match so thats a no go for me personally

if youre just out on your own or shooting for fun, you miss a few low...figure it out, adjust, no worries...if youre trying to be competitive, tinkering with loads isnt the way to go unless you just have all the time in the world to continuously adjust things and re-verify in between the shoots that matter for score or on game

its even better when youre having an awesome match and have your barrel crap on you 3/4 of the way thru...you probably wont ever extend a barrel again

we had a 6.5 barrel set back .100" after it dropped off the first time, and it dropped off again in the middle of a match about 400 rounds later...made for a frustrating day for the shooter

 

[Punisher29073]

I believe my 6.5cm went south last match. It went form shooting these groups

to shooting these groups before and after cleaning.

The throat is so deep now, i cant get within .050" and still fit in AICS mags. Looks like i will be shooting 308 this year in matches.....

Ryan


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[GhengisAhn175]

Ryan,

depending on on how many rounds you have you can re do load development.

part of thing people forget is when they seat longer (significantly longer) + are dealing with throat erosion you HAVE TO re do charge weights. You're changing pressure in there and out of a node.

My 260'rem barrel was still hammering after 3K + rounds before I retired it (still have for sentimental reasons).

 

[Punisher29073]

I am somewhere around 2400-2700 rounds. Do you believe an accurate load can be found when jumping .080"? I have never tried that much. My concern was the throat was so deep, I couldn't get anywhere close to the lands and stay in mags. I don't think it would be worth messing with to bring my only custom action rifle down to a 1" gun.

Plus it gave me an excuse to re-stock a Hart Barrels 308 to a Grayboe renegade for upcoming matches.

Ryan

 

[GhengisAhn175]

And I just zoomed into your papers...

you used 40.0 grains of IMR 4350 for the 2-17-15 load development but then you have H4350 at 44.0 grains for the 3-25-17?

so.... gotta explain that one then

 

[GhengisAhn175]

Yes; that's a huge misconception too about handloading..

you DO NOT have to be close to the lands for best accuracy. That's pure bullshit.

You can have a long jump and still make great loads. You can be seated deep in the case and have great loads.

People load to get close to the lands because it's the most optimal setting for load development (and feeding from magazines).

If youre limited to mag length then load just before mag length and do load development there.

But to harp on my post above it looks like you changed loads anyways

 

[Punisher29073]

As memory serves me, I believe the IMR load was less consistent than the H4350 load. I don't believe I was able to duplicate that particular unicorn. That was about the time, I was getting into ladder testing and I believe the H4350 was more forgiving as to charge weight as well.

The depth thing has always had me wondering as the some of the Remington 5Rs that shoot so well with factory ammo. We know how deep the throats on those things are. I may load up a couple of ladder test rounds and check that out. Thanks for the input. I will report back my results, but it may be a bit before I can carve out some testing time.

Ryan

 

[vh20]

To the OP - BEFORE YOU GO OFF THE DEEP END, check EVERYTHING else first. I had the same thing happen within the first 150 rounds on a 338LM. Turned out to be the scope crapped out and wasn't holding zero. I replaced that scope and had similar results within another 100 rounds. Turned out the rings were loose despite use of LocTite and torque wrenches. I had the same thing happen on a 6.5CM within the first 150 rounds. Turned out to be that the muzzle brake AND the handguard on the chassis (which the bipod mounts to) got loose simultaneously (I did not check torques on anything except the action screws when I received it from the smith, and assumed they would be properly torqued).

Bottom line, there are many things on the rifle/stock/scope/mounts that can cause your problem, and many of them can be easily checked and/or fixed. Essentially, just check the torque on EVERYTHING, and if nothing is found, try a different scope just to be sure before you trash your barrel.

 

[m1ajunkie]

Lots of good responses in here guys, I appreciate you taking the time to provide input.

For what it's worth, I've been cleaning the barrel each evening when I get home from work. Evidently tons of copper fouling. I'm not a super expert cleaner, but I'm using sweets 762 on bore brushes, scrubbing and letting it soak, then overnight for 2 nights I've let the barrel soak with some of that foaming bore cleaner in it. Still blue coming out, but it's significantly less leading me to believe I'm close. It's strange though as I remember cleaning this barrel several times before, maybe the 6CM just deposits way more copper than I imagined.

That said, I plan to check torque on everything prior to going back to the range this weekend where I'll be taking my chrony. Also, I got a OAL length gauge coming so I can measure the depth to my lands and compare with the ogive on my loads. When that comes in, I plan to start load development with some 105 amaxs and 105 berger hybrids to see if I can dial it back in.

My main concern was mentioned above.... I don't want this thing taking a dump in the middle of a match.

 

[Greg Langelius *]

Coupla things. I think GhengisAhn is right on the money. I load to magazine length when loading for a repeater, period. I am probably sacrificing some accuracy by not loading beyond magazine length, but such additional accuracy is meaningless if it precludes being able to feed from the magazine when that's what I need the load to do. I have also seated with the entire boattail and maybe a little more below the neck. Accuracy does not appear to suffer, and I have not observed any other oddness.

It is also possible to single feed a long action case in a short action. If the fired case can be withdrawn far enough to eject, the chambering can usually be used. In the less common instance where a loaded round must be cleared, the bolt release will allow the bolt to be withdrawn that extra amount needed. This is the strategy I have in mind for when I mount that .280 barrel on my SA Savage, which will be used for range shooting only..

I also think that the stronger copper solvents and the foams are very effective, but may not be the ideal implement for longer term soaking. I have seen strange results of repeated overnight foam in the borescope (the rifling looked melted down near the muzzle when repeatedly soaked muzzle downward overnight, which I no longer do). Milder solvents, like the old original Hoppe's #9 bore cleaning solvent, are what I use for extended soaks. It takes longer, but it's not harmful to the bore, and it really does get the bottom layer of crud out. I use the Outer's Gunslick Foaming Bore Cleaner for regular cleaning. It gets it all. I would not leave it in for more than a half hour at a time, though, that's not really needed. One soak may get it all, but additional soaks may be needed. Just patch it all out between soaks, and then repeat.

I find that copper fouling relates to projectile speed, which is (usually) constantly increasing as the projectile moves down the bore. This is why the fouling becomes heavier toward the muzzle, and may be why that rifling of mine get strange in the same portion of the bore.

Greg

 

[m1ajunkie]

Greg, once again thanks for your information. Sounds like ideally I'd get access to a bore scope, I've never used one so I'll have to do some research to find one.

That said, yes I was/am concerned that letting the fo sit over night could be harmful to the bore but it seems like mine was extremely fouled so I took the risk.

Should be good to go now, I'm pretty pleased with the results I've got recently. Gonna get everything squared away so I can hit the range this weekend and hopefully see better results.

 

[Greg Langelius *]

Glad to have found a good use for an Elder Fart's experience.

In essence, what we actually learned here was that what we thought might be the signs of barrel demise were really the signs of excess copper fouling, and a good way to know when cleaning becomes unavoidable.

When in doubt, begin with a thorough cleaning. Until that's done, it's harder to be sure of any diagnosis.

My mentioning of bore scopes relates to borrowed access to a Hawkeye. They are a good way to answer questions like this, but are also one of the scariest implements available to shooters. The inside of a bore is a wild and crazy place. Everything looks like a disaster. But it's usually not. Without experience, they can lead to nightmares. Fortunately, they are usually unnecessary nightmares.

They are best used for examining throats for severe cracking, and bores for copper/carbon fouling. Machine chatter marks, though startling, are very common and every bore I've seen them in still shoots great with a properly developed load. They can also be used to find a misaligned chamber neck, carbon rings, and to examine the crown from the inside, where it really means something.

Unless you are doing significant gunsmithing, they are an expensive luxury; although recent development have brought down the price tag somewhat. But this is also another instance where you get what you pay for. When you look at them online, go to an independent distributor, like Midway, and read the reviews carefully to see what your money is buying.

Greg

 

[m1ajunkie]

So I think I'm almost ready to head back to the range this weekend. I'm finally satisfied with my cleaning, patches finally started coming out with little to no blue on them so I feel much better.

My hornady OAL length gauge came in and I was able to get some measurements.

Using a 105 berger hybrid, I find the length to the lands at 2.255"..... I checked rounds from 2 different lots of the copper creek 105 bergers I've been shooting, one was 2.215" to the ogive and the other was 2.209" to the ogive. Obviously this shows the variation between lots, and it also shows me an opportunity to handload a bit closer to the lands and work up a new load. I realize there are several variables here but I'm thinking the more I control the better off I'll be.

I also checked the length to the lands using some 105 hornady bthp bullets, this gave me 2.242". For some reason the hornday's gave a significantly shorter length to the lands meaning I plan to try and create a load with them as the shorter length might have a better chance of shooting well from mag length.

Surely out of all this, I'll clean things up and get closer to where I used to be!

 

[Str8shot]

nice process.

 

[Aimsmall55]

I had a GAP CRUSADER 6.5 Creedmor. Accuracy was still excellent after 2,000 rounds. Shooting in the .2's most times with handloads. What I did notice was the farther I shot the bigger the spread. What absolutely convinced me was that my mv dropped from 75 fps pretty quick and my dope kept changing on targets past 400 yards. It was still a hammer but instead of wasting ammo and time .... I had it rebarreled before it completely went to shit.

 

[m1ajunkie]

So I didn't get to make it to the range as soon as I'd hope, but today I got to go out and see how my rifle performed after the deep cleaning I gave it. Overall I'm very excited by what I saw, much improved. Unfortunately I forgot my magnetospeed at home so I'll have to check velocities hopefully next week.

So after firing a handful of rounds to foul the bore, I got into shooting some groups at 100 yds. The pic below shows my results. The group in the lower right portion of the pic is my first 5 rounds of copper creek 105 hybrid ammo, I'd call it about a .6/.7ish" group which I'm happy with given where I'm at as a shooter. In the upper left corner is 5 rounds of hornady 108 ELD factory ammo that I picked up to try, that group measured just a smidge under 1" center to center but that top round could have been me. I'm going to shoot more of it to see if I can improve.

I also got in some hornady 108 ELDs to handload so I did some load development. I seated the bullets .025 off the lands and you can see in the upper right corner the 42 gr load has strong potential. Then the 3 rd group in the lower left corner was my last 3 rounds for the day checking zero using the copper creek 105 berger hybrids, very happy with that.

Also in the single group pic you can see the 43 gr 108 eld load shows strong potential. Unfortunately, my skills showed up when I sent the 5th and final round for the group, you can see I blew it by sending it wide right. Strong potential in this load too though. I'll know more about the 42 vs 43 gr loads next time I go out and bring my chrony.

Overall, the cleaning really helped! I almost feel foolish letting my rifle go so long, but it kept shooting fine so I didn't see any need to mess with it.

 

[Deleted member 10043]

Solved.

 

[Pahntr760]

I'm not a super expert cleaner, but I'm using sweets 762 on bore brushes, scrubbing and letting it soak, then overnight for 2 nights I've let the barrel soak with some of that foaming bore cleaner in it. Still blue coming out, but it's significantly less leading me to believe I'm close. .

Just be sure to clean ALL of the Sweet's out with some Kroll or CLP to ensure it is gone! This product is known to etch bores and could be causing you some issues if done improperly. I find wipe-out with their accelerator and some regular old CLP to be very effective, without the harsh side effects. YMMV

A good way, to me anyways, of overnight soaking is regular Hoppe's #9 and a chamber plug. Use a pipette to fill a chamber plugged barrel...set the rifle upright and fill the bore. You will be surprised at the blue/black muck that pours out the next day. Push all the Hoppe's out with CLP'd patches and then work again with the copper solvent. Note: When using copper solvents, I like nylon bristles...the bronze can give you a "false positive" as it will react similarly to the copper solvents as copper does, and push out as blue.

 

[raptor99]

It sounds like you don't clean very much. If this is the case you might have "Carbon Fouling". You don't loose throat you gain it. I had a 260 with a Melonited barrel and it just did not copper foul. So I didn't clean it for several hundred rounds then when I did I just used a wipe out foam. One day my accuracy went to hell and I tried everything. Different loads, cleaned it, checked the stock and even changed scopes. Finally got it bore scoped and found out it was carbon fouled. It took hours of scrubbing to get it out. It gets harder than the hubs of hell!! Once I got it cleaned out it shot fine again and I went back to cleaning on a more regular basis and once again using a brush when I cleaned.....

 

[steve123]

Redundant here, but Morgan's way corresponds with my thoughts on the subject. Especially setting a barrel back - unless maybe the gunsmith work is free.

Back before I knew better, "BTW much of what I know I learned here and actually I think a bunch of us learned together by reading each others posts", I nursed a barrel as long as I could by redoing loads, adding powder and chasing lands. Doing so only lasts a little while till things go to absolute sh!t and usually at the worst possible time, like a 2 day match you just paid a hefty entry fee for, traveled a long way to, and then outcome being having to endure watching your competitors get the prize you were eyeballing, lol. One barrel in 6x47 went 2400 with some major nursing, but I was tricked the second time at 1500 rounds.

If velocity drops you better start planning a place for your next tomato stake.

I clean every 150 rounds for 6mm. Good cleaners like Boretech and it doesn't take much till patches are mostly free of blue. Next to last thing is JB fine polish which cleans and maintains the throat, only a few patches concentrating on the first few inches but out to the end too, dry patch it a few, then light oil patch followed by one dry patch.

 

[m1ajunkie]

This is great information! Raptor 99, you are correct I don't clean much at all. I've always been afraid of ruining my rifles from over cleaning. It appears I let this one go to long though.

 

[Billiam1211]

Question on barrel wear:

I have a Tikka TacA1 in 6.5 CM that has exactly 1,474 rounds down the barrel. I started noticing that groups opened up so I took my match load and chronographed it. I was running 140gr ELDs at 2,742 fps with 42.5gr H4350, however the most recent range trip I chrono'd the same exact load at 2,690 fps. I measured the distance to the lands, and it looks like it grew significantly since when I fist worked up my match load.

Do I simply do a new load workup where I seat the bullet closer to the lands based on the new distance to o-give reading? Not sure why the velocity would drop 50 fps but it seems way too early for the barrel to be shot out.

 

[Dthomas3523]

Question on barrel wear:

I have a Tikka TacA1 in 6.5 CM that has exactly 1,474 rounds down the barrel. I started noticing that groups opened up so I took my match load and chronographed it. I was running 140gr ELDs at 2,742 fps with 42.5gr H4350, however the most recent range trip I chrono'd the same exact load at 2,690 fps. I measured the distance to the lands, and it looks like it grew significantly since when I fist worked up my match load.

Do I simply do a new load workup where I seat the bullet closer to the lands based on the new distance to o-give reading? Not sure why the velocity would drop 50 fps but it seems way too early for the barrel to be shot out.

See the posts above from @morganlamprecht

It’s all up to you and what you’re comfortable with. You can chase lands and add more powder. Or you can trash the barrel.

Some 6.5 barrels last 2-2500, some go at 1500. Some make it 3000+.

Basically, comes down to the “believe the bullet.” If all things are the same as before and you lost 50fps that can’t be explained any other way, your barrel is starting to go.

 

[Steel head]

Question on barrel wear:

I have a Tikka TacA1 in 6.5 CM that has exactly 1,474 rounds down the barrel. I started noticing that groups opened up so I took my match load and chronographed it. I was running 140gr ELDs at 2,742 fps with 42.5gr H4350, however the most recent range trip I chrono'd the same exact load at 2,690 fps. I measured the distance to the lands, and it looks like it grew significantly since when I fist worked up my match load.

Do I simply do a new load workup where I seat the bullet closer to the lands based on the new distance to o-give reading? Not sure why the velocity would drop 50 fps but it seems way too early for the barrel to be shot out.

My previous 260 needed about another two tenths of powder at a similar point in its life.

It finally took a dump at a bit over 3000 giving flyers, considerable loss of speed and needed excessive cleaning.

 

[DisplacedTexan]

My ES went from 16 to 60. Then I knew...

 

[DellaDog]

Only on my second barrel, but the first 6.5 CM Bartlein stripped copper like a cheese grater towards the end.

2500 rounds and it opened up from consistent .25” groupings to 3/4” - 1”. Wasn’t the groups that prompted the change but the ridiculous fouling.

Bore scope showed significant fire cracking well past the throat. Always loaded in a moderate node. (2775)

 

[DisplacedTexan]

Only on my second barrel, but the first 6.5 CM Bartlein stripped copper like a cheese grater towards the end.

2500 rounds and it opened up from consistent .25” groupings to 3/4” - 1”. Wasn’t the groups that prompted the change but the ridiculous fouling.

Bore scope showed significant fire cracking well past the throat. Always loaded in a moderate node. (2775)

Odd. I run my 6.5x47 pretty hard with 142s at 2840 and it still shoots. Has around 3000 rounds on it.

 

[Billiam1211]

Thanks for the feedback guys! It's my first precision rifle and first time I've ever gotten remotely close to burning out a barrel so it's a new experience for me. Luckily I keep good notes, which helps.

I think next steps are to run a ladder test, retune my load and test it. If it keeps hammering 1/2 MOA groups I'll keep running it until groups open way up. If not, fortunately I have a 26-inch Benchmark barrel from PVA on standby.

 

[Billiam1211]

So I went back to the range and ran a ladder test at 300 yards working from 41 grains of H4350 up to 43 grains and I verified the most accurate load at 200 yards.

The best shooting load was 140 ELD / 41.5gr H4350 / 210M Primer seated 0.030 off the lands (2.900 COAL). The groups shown below were all @ 200 yards shot today, 7/26. The interesting thing is that my velocity is 2,613 fps. Seems really freaking slow. My buddy gets 2775 out of the same load.

Would you guys recommend to keep shooting it? Primary use is as a PRS match rifle and it seems like the accuracy is still there - just seems like my velocity took a major dump.

 

[Huskydriver]

So I went back to the range and ran a ladder test at 300 yards working from 41 grains of H4350 up to 43 grains and I verified the most accurate load at 200 yards.

The best shooting load was 140 ELD / 41.5gr H4350 / 210M Primer seated 0.030 off the lands (2.900 COAL). The groups shown below were all @ 200 yards shot today, 7/26. The interesting thing is that my velocity is 2,613 fps. Seems really freaking slow. My buddy gets 2775 out of the same load.

Would you guys recommend to keep shooting it? Primary use is as a PRS match rifle and it seems like the accuracy is still there - just seems like my velocity took a major dump.

How are you verifying your speed and what barrel length are you running?

 

[Billiam1211]

How are you verifying your speed and what barrel length are you running?

It's a 24-inch factory Tikka barrel, so I know those typically run slow. I verified speed with a Magneto Speed over a 10-shot string.

 

[Huskydriver]

It's a 24-inch factory Tikka barrel, so I know those typically run slow. I verified speed with a Magneto Speed over a 10-shot string.

Might want to verify over another chrono. That is stupid slow for a 24" tube you should be up near 2800 like your buddy.


Did you do a drop test to see how much it was dropping from your zero at 200 to verify speed?

 

[Billiam1211]

Might want to verify over another chrono. That is stupid slow for a 24" tube you should be up near 2800 like your buddy.


Did you do a drop test to see how much it was dropping from your zero at 200 to verify speed?

I didn't adjust my zero at all from load to load. I'm noticing it's dropping about maybe a half inch compared to my previous load's zero.

I'll check at the next match with a buddy's chrono just to be sure. Like the guys said above, I think the volatility is the barrel telling me it's getting ready to go.

 

[Dthomas3523]

So I went back to the range and ran a ladder test at 300 yards working from 41 grains of H4350 up to 43 grains and I verified the most accurate load at 200 yards.

The best shooting load was 140 ELD / 41.5gr H4350 / 210M Primer seated 0.030 off the lands (2.900 COAL). The groups shown below were all @ 200 yards shot today, 7/26. The interesting thing is that my velocity is 2,613 fps. Seems really freaking slow. My buddy gets 2775 out of the same load.

Would you guys recommend to keep shooting it? Primary use is as a PRS match rifle and it seems like the accuracy is still there - just seems like my velocity took a major dump.

It all depends. Are you ok with it either A) taking another drop during a match or B) totally burning out during a match?

If the money you don’t spend on a barrel now is worth more to you than either of those happening, keep running with it.

If you don’t want to take a chance of either of those happenings use it as a practice barrel.

For me personally, a barrel is done for match use when it has the first noticeable velocity drop. I don’t want to deal with having to adjust during a match when it drops again, or it decides to totally shit out.

For me, it can shoot 3/8 all day, but if I am not confident that 3/8 is going to be at the exactly elevation I’m expecting, it’s not good to me for a match.

I also have no interest in continually tweaking my loading. I’d rather be shooting or doing other things than figuring out how much extra powder to run or chase lands.

 

[Sheldon N]

Would you guys recommend to keep shooting it? Primary use is as a PRS match rifle and it seems like the accuracy is still there - just seems like my velocity took a major dump.

For me it boils down to how much velocity consistency for a full match matters to you. Once the velocity starts to drop off the question is.... will this newly tuned load hold speed for the next 300 rounds? If not then you're in a match and lose a touch of speed and start hitting low on the long distance stages.

If you're paying attention to where you hit then it's probably something you could catch and correct within a stage and the match would still be successful. If you're in the hunt for a top 10 finish then the couple points you missed out on could be the difference. Even more so if the long distance targets were diamonds where they get narrower for wind if you're even a tenth low.

That's why you'll see the very top guys changing barrels much earlier than others. If you aren't worried about those small issues you can run it until it starts sending fliers at distance.