How we be hitting Libya without ground controllers

[Red Ryder]

It's been a few days since I've been on the forum so if this question has been answered, please excuse me.

So, I read almost everyday that the US is hitting this ground target or that ground target through employment of air assets. How is it that we can designate targets or verify targets or one thing or another without there being eyes on the ground to verify or designate said targets? Now I know a lot of things can be done from the air, but I'm thinking to myself, surely all these airstrikes can't be occuring without a presence on the ground.

What say you?

 

[Jthoss0837]

Re: How we be hitting Libya without ground controllers

Also we could possibly have SF in there that we dont know about

 

[Jig Stick]

Re: How we be hitting Libya without ground controllers

SOG + SAD

 

[valmet76]

Re: How we be hitting Libya without ground controllers

The airstrikes in Libya are not CAS, and so they don't require a presence on the ground.

 

[Red Ryder]

Re: How we be hitting Libya without ground controllers

Well the UAVs I can understand. But we're starting to try to hit cities with AC-130 gunships and while I know they have a lot of great optics, I'd think they'd still need ground support.

 

[rero360]

Re: How we be hitting Libya without ground controllers

AF TACPs? honestly I have no idea, while my bread and butter is indirect fire, I've only the basic of knowledge of air strikes, like there are 4 levels of CAS, I'm hoping to get sent to JFO school later this year so I can know more and be more effective on the battlefield.

 

[Shady_Jay]

Re: How we be hitting Libya without ground controllers

Screw technology. Operation Arc Light their asses.

 

[j27]

Re: How we be hitting Libya without ground controllers

JSTARS and satellites

 

[HillbillyfromAL]

Re: How we be hitting Libya without ground controllers

Didn't you watch Opera before the election? The COC is the one he doesn't need guidance for anything he does. Now let's just imagine that this happened while someone else was in there. The media would be having a hay day with it.


"If this is too political please delete"

 

[USAFDoug]

Re: How we be hitting Libya without ground controllers

Deleted...

 

[DieTrying310]

Re: How we be hitting Libya without ground controllers

There are a lot of things happening behind the scenes that most will never hear about.

 

[slowkota]

Re: How we be hitting Libya without ground controllers

"Black Ops"
aka
CIA, Delta, Force Recon, Rangers...

Theres more than likely been "boots" on the ground, we just won't find out for 10-25 years! lol

 

[USAFDoug]

Re: How we be hitting Libya without ground controllers

Deleted again..

 

[eagle20899]

Re: How we be hitting Libya without ground controllers

Most air assets have on-board laser designators for guided weapons now.

 

[super-tac]

Re: How we be hitting Libya without ground controllers

Please don't tell me anyone here thinks that there are no US assets on the ground.

 

[SgtKope]

Re: How we be hitting Libya without ground controllers

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: j27</div><div class="ubbcode-body">JSTARS and satellites
</div></div>

This guy knows his stuff. Right there is your answer. JSTARS. That's "How we be hitting" them.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Northrop_Grumman_E-8_Joint_STARS

 

[jcfd2201]

Re: How we be hitting Libya without ground controllers

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: SgtKope</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: j27</div><div class="ubbcode-body">JSTARS and satellites
</div></div>

This guy knows his stuff. Right there is your answer. JSTARS. That's "How we be hitting" them.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Northrop_Grumman_E-8_Joint_STARS </div></div>

Good read right there. Makes one wonder if that is public info how much more advanced is the JSTARS systems than what they acknowledge.

 

[Phil1]

Re: How we be hitting Libya without ground controllers

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jcfd2201</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: SgtKope</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: j27</div><div class="ubbcode-body">JSTARS and satellites
</div></div>

This guy knows his stuff. Right there is your answer. JSTARS. That's "How we be hitting" them.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Northrop_Grumman_E-8_Joint_STARS </div></div>

Good read right there. Makes one wonder if that is public info how much more advanced is the JSTARS systems than what they acknowledge. </div></div>

Moving motorcycle

 

[rero360]

Re: How we be hitting Libya without ground controllers

While I know my knowledge is probably way less then 1% of everything out there, what I do know is we have some really cool stuff, makes the geek and geardo in me happy lol.

 

[powderBurnz]

Re: How we be hitting Libya without ground controllers

I saw something on CBS, CNN or whatever it was. They had video from the air and audio that had some sort of JTAC with a french accent controlling air from the ground.

 

[Switchblade]

Re: How we be hitting Libya without ground controllers

13F's(FO's) are a dead MOS or at least obsolete. Sattelite imagery being ontime, as you see it happen, or aerial recon ontime, lets us shoot, drop wherever and whenever we want. 13F has been relegated to other jobs since then for the most part, so true eyes on teh ground are no longer needed so long as one has eyes in the sky or higher.

 

[ArmaHeavy]

Re: How we be hitting Libya without ground controllers

Switch...really?

Our 13 foxes can actually go to the Air Force's CCT school for additional training.

The real freaking problem is that I've seen so many FISTers get tasked out with bullshit, but not getting sent somewhere for quality training that betters them in their MOS.

We have guys who CAN attend the school, and there IS a need for them, but they aren't getting the training.

Bright kids too.

And until we have some super-cool, GPS guided, artillery piece attached to an earth-facing, Hubble telescope (orbiting sniper rifle) we will never have the satellite imagery we need.

 

[Jig Stick]

Re: How we be hitting Libya without ground controllers

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2011/03/...on-sources-say/

like i said...CIA, SOG, SAD

 

[powderBurnz]

Re: How we be hitting Libya without ground controllers

Switch, TACPs and CCTs are going strong. Not many of them but they are in big demand. USAF has been trying to bring up the number because of this. I just took a PAST for a TACP unit a few weeks ago!!!!!!!

 

[ArcticLight]

Re: How we be hitting Libya without ground controllers

There's a version of that JSTARS known as Snoopy, or maybe that was the nickname for it.

I had a friend at Eilson that worked on those.

I worked at Honeywell in 1985 and did some wiring on the racks for one of them, pretty much basic electric stuff.

But back to the OP - nno oe will confirm or deny but we probably had assetts on the ground before the two week ago order that obuma signed...

Libya needs a good ass kicking but I've never seen a liberal be good at ass kicking...

 

[slowkota]

Re: How we be hitting Libya without ground controllers

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: USAFDoug</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I understand everyone thoughts in this thread but we don't NEED anyone on the ground to hit the targets that they are hitting.

Tanks out in the open... ships in the port... people riding around in trucks. These are all easy targets for a targeting pod and say a GBU 12 or even an AGM 65/E... no problems there!

</div></div>

Yeah... Until some extremists decide that its on like donkey kong... and they deeply immerse themselves into the popluation, like the taliban and al-queda!

Never ending story, If I do say so myself!!!

Hey, now that the "Red Scare" is over, we should team with Russia, and really wipe their asses off the oil fields!!! lol

 

[USAFDoug]

Re: How we be hitting Libya without ground controllers

^^ Agreed!

 

[slowkota]

Re: How we be hitting Libya without ground controllers

I'm thinking we should start a pool...

How long it takes the "rebels" in libya, to turn the weapons we eventually will supply them... onto american troops!!!

I got a crispy Franklin... sayin its less than 10 years!!!

 

[oregon]

Re: How we be hitting Libya without ground controllers

It started with the tomahawk and the Fire-then-forget Hellfire systems. Technology has been good, while not enough to win in some places like Afghanistan, especially after so many years messing with Russia before we got there.

 

[Red Ryder]

Re: How we be hitting Libya without ground controllers

I just saw on Foxnews that the CIA has had operatives in Libya for the last few weeks. They were supposed to be gathering intel as to who is who, what the rebels (or are they "insurgents") want, stuff like that. You know, stuff a superpower is supposed to know BEFORE it gets involved. Maybe they had laser designators as well.

And while I find it entirely plausible that JSTARS and all the other fancy gear can detect a lot, it does have limitiations.

 

[Switchblade]

Re: How we be hitting Libya without ground controllers

I know there were several of my old buddies from my old unit in Hawaii(all of us were FO's(13F) ) who were telling me they were in line for retraining and that the unit wasn't sure if they, as an MOS, would be around much longer. This was after their last three tours in Iraq/Afghanistan, not doing the FO job, but being stuck either on a FOB, or in patrols just doing basic grunt work

 

[mavrick10_2000]

Re: How we be hitting Libya without ground controllers

And before that the Brits and possibly even France had Spec Ops on the ground. Not a big suprise really. It was on the news before the cruise missles were ever fired.

 

[HillbillyfromAL]

Re: How we be hitting Libya without ground controllers

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: slowkota</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I'm thinking we should start a pool...

How long it takes the "rebels" in libya, to turn the weapons we eventually will supply them... onto american troops!!!

I got a crispy Franklin... sayin its less than 10 years!!!</div></div>

That's really the point ain't it? What would do if the war just ended? I Think the 10-15 year time frame is right on the money. Just long enough for the kids that we leave fatherless to follow their fathers footsteps. It's a never ending cycle.

 

[Red Ryder]

Re: How we be hitting Libya without ground controllers

It's a shame we can't come up with "limited lifetime" weapons. After x-number of years, they simply break down.

 

[EddieNFL]

Re: How we be hitting Libya without ground controllers

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">targeting pods on Aircraft and those AC 130's have no issues seeing targets from 30k+...</div></div>

Been too many years, so I contacted a friend who spent most of his 30 years aboard AC130s. The max altitude is 10K without oxygen. Afghanistan missions are typically flown at 15K. To exceed 18K requires pre-breathing 100 percent oxygen for 30 minutes. The airplane shoots best around 10K slant range. His response to 30K was, "Nope."

 

[USAFDoug]

Re: How we be hitting Libya without ground controllers

I am deleting my posts.

We do have some good technology though!

 

[SgtKope]

Re: How we be hitting Libya without ground controllers

Oh how I wish there were a TS/SCI version of Sniper's Hide

 

[KYpatriot]

Re: How we be hitting Libya without ground controllers

Know that our modern US fighters can and do self designate targets all the time. No ground presence needed.

In fact, having someone else designate the target is less desirable for several reasons.

For CAS though, the rules, with a few exceptions, demand a clearance to fire from a ground presence for obvious reasons. This was ALWAYS the limiting factor in airstrikes in Iraq. I know of not a single instance of a denied airstrike that was not due to the ground commander. I dont want to judge not being on the ground, but IMHO I carried a lot of bombs back to base that the grunts on the ground could have benefited from.

 

[KYpatriot]

Re: How we be hitting Libya without ground controllers

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: SgtKope</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Oh how I wish there were a TS/SCI version of Sniper's Hide</div></div>

Yeah - except that whole "need to know" thing would still get in the way, and installing a SCIF in your house is really expensive!

 

[aqualung]

Re: How we be hitting Libya without ground controllers

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: mavrick10_2000</div><div class="ubbcode-body">And before that the Brits and possibly even France had Spec Ops on the ground. Not a big suprise really. It was on the news before the cruise missles were ever fired. </div></div>

What he said^^

The Hereford Hooligans were on the ground weeks ago. I'm not breaking opsec to say that, it was all over the UK national press.

The UK called off an airstrike because the boys on the ground called it for civilians too close.

Again, all in the UK national press.

You think your SF guys aren't already on the ground?? Then you're very naive.

N

 

[SgtKope]

Re: How we be hitting Libya without ground controllers

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: KYpatriot</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: SgtKope</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Oh how I wish there were a TS/SCI version of Sniper's Hide</div></div>

Yeah - except that whole "need to know" thing would still get in the way, and installing a SCIF in your house is really expensive! </div></div>

I would consider the Hide a SAP and I would read you in. Still working the SCIF in the house thing. Although, currently I am in a SCIF in Iraq. Working hard at the moment as you can tell.