How will the 'Orange Man' respond to this?

[Maggot]

Personally, I find it, the choice to change gender, a bit ....strange...but as the guy/lady said, she/he was defending liberty for all of us. I dont think anyone would question the loyalties or abilities. Well said, madam/sir.

-------------------------------------------------- Kristin Beck, transgender Navy SEAL hero: 'Let's meet face to face and you tell me I'm not worthy'

[IMG2=JSON]{"data-align":"none","data-size":"full","src":"https:\/\/s.yimg.com\/lo\/api\/res\/1.2\/wDyFs6pjUYQR4m7tVu.2kA--\/YXBwaWQ9eW15O3c9MTUwO3NtPTE7aWw9cGxhbmU-\/https:\/\/media.zenfs.com\/creatr-images\/GLB\/2016-12-22\/4956c420-c82f-11e6-80cc-6beda8319ce8_BI.png.cf.jpg"}[/IMG2] Paul Szoldra,Business Insider 3 hours ago

• Reactions
• Like
• Reblog on Tumblr
• Share
• Tweet
• Email

[IMG2=JSON]{"data-align":"none","data-size":"full","src":"https:\/\/s.yimg.com\/lo\/api\/res\/1.2\/S_nCbR9V9wcPzWT5Pgo_ug--\/YXBwaWQ9eW15O3c9NjQwO3E9NzU7c209MQ--\/http:\/\/globalfinance.zenfs.com\/en_us\/Finance\/US_AFTP_SILICONALLEY_H_LIVE\/Kristin_Beck_transgender_Navy_SEAL-154b3d267eb3b586730b255843ff8cb2"}[/IMG2](Kristin Beck speaks at the FBI Criminal Justice Information Services Division in Clarksburg, West Virginia, in 2014.AP Photo/FBI)
A retired Navy SEAL Team 6 hero who is transgender had a message for President Donald Trump after he announced the US military would bar transgender people from serving.

"Let's meet face to face and you tell me I'm not worthy," Kristin Beck, a 20-year veteran of the Navy SEALs, told Business Insider on Wednesday. "Transgender doesn't matter. Do your service."

Beck said Trump's abrupt change in policy could negatively affect many currently or wanting to serve in the military. The RAND Corporation estimated in 2016 that there were between 1,320 and 6,630 transgender people serving. Many of them just want to serve their country like everyone else, Beck said.

"Being transgender doesn't affect anyone else," Beck said. "We are liberty's light. If you can't defend that for everyone that's an American citizen, that's not right."

Beck is not just your average service member. Born Christopher Beck, she served for 20 years in the Navy with SEAL Teams 1, 5, and, eventually, the elite 6. She deployed 13 times over two decades, including stints in Bosnia, Iraq, and Afghanistan. She received the Bronze Star award for valor and the Purple Heart for wounds suffered in combat.

"I was defending individual liberty," she said. "I defended for Republicans. I defended for Democrats. I defended for everyone."

In a series of tweets, Trump said the decision was based on the costs of medical services that transgender service members could use. But "the money is negligible," Beck said. "You're talking about .000001% of the military budget.

"They care more about the airplane or the tank than they care about people," Beck said. "They don't care about people. They don't care about human beings."

When asked about potential problems with unit cohesion or war fighting, Beck said those were not issues that would arise from transgender service members, but from leadership.

"A very professional unit with great leadership wouldn't have a problem," Beck said. "I can have a Muslim serving right beside Jerry Falwell, and we're not going to have a problem. It's a leadership issue, not a transgender issue."

 

[fdkay]

Bullshit.
While I personally don't care if someone wants to change gender, and absolutely believe it is their right to change genders if they so wish, there IS going to be issues at the unit level.
Just like there are issues with "binary" mixed gender units.

 

[vh20]

BS

 

[pmclaine]

Maggot what unit were you with?

That's not a challenge that only those that served have a voice but it does speak to what your knowledge is of uniformed service, even paramilitary service. It matters.

The strength of the military is in its cohesiveness, its uniformity, its shared experience. Sure each is a unique individual but the strength comes from suppressing self to act as a cog in the machine when necessary to do so.

When did SEAL Beck express his current identity? Was he wearing the female Chiefs uniform while in service? Does he truthfully think there would have been no issues had he done so? Making himself so different despite training experiences designed over time to make all the same?

Be who you want to be on your own but the military has a standard and expectations that work. Fall outside that standard on your own time.

Its all just an effort to get society to question every norm of not only the last 240 years but 2000 plus years of western civ.

Are there standards and truths or are there not?

Are things only known by you after the government has defined what you should believe?

Just because Ashe Carter said so does not make it so.

Where was the outrage with this status quo two years ago, five years ago, twenty years ago, fifty years ago, one hundred years ago?

Why now?

Fake news. Fuel on the fire. Stir the pot and create more division.

If you believe in it than the answer is to shitcan all that was known and part of our history.

I think someone stated the need to "fundamentally change" America. what do you think that means and where does that take us?

 

[Rthur]

I'm guessing he "transitioned" after his service.
The above would be the answer to this question.

R

 

[Greg Langelius *]

Maggot, you got less to say about what's good for the military than a fart in a Hurricane. Like pmclaine said, what unit were you with?

"Orange Queef" indeed. Too far, too disgusting.

I just hope somebody on this site has the balls to ban you once and for all. I seriously believe you deserve it after this one.

I have periodically taken you off ignore in the futile hope that somehow your posts might someday prove redemptive.

That little enterprise has just ended. I'm not angry, I'm convinced. You did the convincing, I didn't have to do a thing.

Permanently.

I don't mind what folks want to do with their bodies. I do mind that they insist on monopolizing the mainstream media with this drivel, insisting that I be inoculated/infected with their viewpoint. I also mind the way the MSM goes bottom feeding for this brand of 'News". I call this hunger for publicity exhibitionism. Some forms of it aren't legal, some are, and us folks here at the bottom of the sludge pond aren't getting much say in it.

It especially galls me how you, Maggot, are so adept at bringing this crap to our unsolicited attention. I think it, and you, need to end as far as SH is concerned.

 

[WaltHer]

I'm guessing he "transitioned" after his service.
The above would be the answer to this question.

R

You beat me to it...Was "she" a "she" when "she" served?

 

[...]

how many fucking transgender people are there that this is an actual issue?....ide be willing to bet there are less than 100 in all of our armed services......

i mean fuck, all i hear about is these transgender people......youd think thered be mobs of them roaming around......

 

[Anchor Zero Six]

Correct me if Im wrong but there is a distinction between transgender and transexual. The wording which led to trangender acceptance was deliberate in the use of transgender.

I think if it looks walks and quacks like a duck most accept it as a duck. I dont think the issue is if female service members are ok showering with a transexual sans the twig and giggle berries but rather being forced to accept the chix with dix in their space, dont their opinions matter equally?

 

[Greg Langelius *]

How many?

How many does it take?

If you actually have no principles, please let us know now, so we can assess your further posts from a more accurate aspect.

Never mind, I'm just ignoring the ignorant today, anyway...

There, gone...

Three down. This is easy.

Don't like my viewpoint? Go ahead, ignore me...

Works for me...

 

[Dougie308]

That is one ugly chick! And I live on pain killers!

 

[...]

How many?

How many does it take?

If you actually have no principles, please let us know now, so we can assess your further posts from an accurate aspect.

Never mind, I'm just ignoring the ignorant today, anyway...

There, gone...

Three down. This is easy.

Don't like my viewpoint? Go ahead, ignore me...

Works for me...

quite frankly, i dont give a fuck if you want to chop youre dick off or not......you do you......doesnt bother me any

but no, i dont ignore people who i disagree with.....im not a fucking liberal and i can handle my views challenged.......

if you need to block everyone who challenges you....perhaps you should find some more security in your beliefs.

 

[Veer_G]

Sorry. If you want to be taken for a woman, lose the tackle ... permanently. No tag backs, no druthers, no reconsideration. Want a weenie? Go to Superdawgs and cry your eyes out in remorse.

And Goldie, I'm sorry, but the pack is right. I may see where people with identifying religious kit can serve, but there's no frigging way you can straddle the genders and not make it all the more fucking difficult in a brain-melting, life-and-death situation. We're still too reptilian to overcome our inherited hangups concerning gender and supposed qualities.

 

[Rthur]

how many fucking transgender people are there that this is an actual issue?....ide be willing to bet there are less than 100 in all of our armed services......

i mean fuck, all i hear about is these transgender people......youd think thered be mobs of them roaming around......

This would be the intent, make this psychosis seem mainstream.

R

 

[WATERWALKER]

The sole purpose of libtards in this world is to breach the walls of our institutions. They won't rest until everything that is good, or "pure" in this world is destroyed. If it's not the traditional family unit it's religion, politics, etc.

Liberals generally won't work or are otherwise incapable of caring for themselves, unless of course that means collecting a welfare check from the state for doing NOTHING. These people are parasites that will never rest until the host is dead.

For those that doubt some of the above statements, please tell the rest of us who have served, why the that guy didn't come out openly as a transsexual while on active duty?

 

[Greg Langelius *]

I think I'm beginning to sense a conservative backlash coming, and soon.

God help us, I hope it's benign. But I'm usually wrong about such things.

Hide the wimmen and childrens.

if you ain't sure about who's who, don't sweat it, they made the choice.

i wonder how a Lion Pride would handle a trans-lion'ess' in their midst. Could get bloody, eh?.

Just ain't natural...

I guess I'm just an old 'Neanderthal' cuss with old fashioned views. I think I'll keep 'em. And screw anyone who tries forcing me to change 'em.

Greg

 

[Maggot]

I was in no unit. Viet Nam chose not to engage me.

I dont take a real position on it other than to think it took some balls to come out like that. I just put it up to stimulate discussion. If you have a problem with it talk to Mz? Beck. and her former associates/team members.

Greg, calm down, youre taking yourself way too seriously. As to the 'Orange Queef' Im just goofing on someone elses title for him. No worse than Ive heard Obummer or Hitlery called.

 

[sidewaysil80]

While it's easy to say the military only spends .00001% of its budget on transgender therapy/treatment, the actual number is in the tens of millions according to recent studies. Furthermore, it is classified as a mental disorder. Just because society doesn't want to accept that doesn't legitimize it. By the same standard that has us letting people chop their dicks off and exclaim they are a woman, we should be issuing drivers licenses to each personality that someone with Multiple Personality Disorder has, or banning people take pictures of or around Paranoid Schizophrenics.

What I'm trying to say is rather that let "Trans" people indulge their disorder, we should treat it like we do every other mental disorder. The ONLY reason it is acceptable in todays society is because it has some parallels to the gay community and falls under that umbrella. I challenge anyone who disagrees to look up the suicide rates POST op, they are through the roof...and the surgery is only done after a one or two year wait period while receiving hormone treatment and therapy. So why are the rates so high?

LASTLY, as to the trans SEAL, she didn't come out while in and did it long after she got out. After eight years in the USMC Infantry (2004-2012) and seeing/hearing people torment each other over far less, I do not believe for one split second that someone who is transgender can serve in a unit and it jeopardize order and discipline.

 

[jrassy]

I'm all for Trump on this one, then I can bring back my old saying,"well fuck me running" and not have it misconstrued as a proposal.

 

[jmar]

Why is getting your sausage cut off celebrated rather than being called a mental disorder? What they have is no different then having body dysmorphia. There's a real problem when parents are letting kids that haven't even hit puberty get estrogen injections weekly... I've never been in the military so take it for a grain of salt or less if you'd like but I don't think our military should support people with mental disorders, suicide rates for transgender people are already incredible high, add that to the stress of being in a combat zone and that creates a dangerous recipe. I'm not familiar how women are treated in the military maybe someone will chime in. But if women and men have different roles in some areas transgender people can cause unnecessary complications, such as if a woman who identifies as a man wants a man only role. Also only a week ago there was news men who identified as women with their junk in once piece still could shower with actual women...

I'm not trying to attack transgenders in my post, I'm just saying the truth in that kids can actually be born with hormonal imbalances. Which can easily be treated with medication. But now it is common to indulge them which does not fix the problem and in fact makes it worst most of the time. Even after people get full sex change surgeries they still have the imbalances which plays with their mind causing suicide. Any form of government should not endorse this. I see nothing wrong with the President's decision.

 

[JMGlasgow]

Allowing trans people in the military is a distraction, a financial burden, and they have a mental disorder that is so severe they're unfit to serve. If some idiot wants to go trans after they're out, with their own money, that's their choice. They can pay for it out of their own stupid pocket. I was DQ'd from military service for hearing and an elbow surgery. I never once threw a temper tantrum, or called it discriminatory. I accepted it and moved the fuck on with my life. These mentally unstable and physically unfit trans (or whatever gender they feel like being) idiots should do the same and shut the fuck up.

 

[Maggot]

I see ya'll's point (check that double apostrophe) and do not disagree. I think I was more expressing an admiration for the strength of the individual, on many levels, past and present, mental illness, or no.

If you note, I did change the title from 'Queef' to Orange Man. Wouldnt want to be overly disrespectful

 

[WaltHer]

Damn Maggot, your s#it always cracks me up. Even when I I disagree which 'yo Shit. You shoulda left it the way it was...When Maggot goes PC all is lost.

 

[K-tech]

I don't see any reason why the.military can't keep these people out of the service, they keep all kinds of people out already who have disorders, mental instability, on medications, physical conditions, etc. I get that it's up for debate whether or not the whole tranny thing is a mental disorder or not, but what is not up for debate is these people are taking testosterone/estrogen shots and have crazy high probability of attempting suicide and being mentally unstable. That right there should end this debate in my book.
EDIT: I should add, I didn't make it through MEPS because of my asthma. It usually is a non issue but it's there and I sometimes look back and wish I could've served but whatever, I get where the military is coming from and it just wasn't in the good Lord's will for me and I am thankful to all you guys that have served dutifully. I guess just don't get why this being blown into this huge problem when it's affecting a percent of a percent of the population

 

[thejeep]

Im no conspiracy theorist, but my guess is the porn industry has Trump in their back pocket. Who needs porn when you can just strap on the goods and look in the mirror?

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk

 

[Forgetful Coyote]

Fuckin really.. people are mad about freakshows not being allowed to serve. Me with a non violent non sexual charge as a juvenile ain't allowed to enlist. Fuck the trannies, let dudes like me in first. All I wanna do is fuckin infantry! And I scored 94 on the ASVAB.. no fuckin way a tranny faggot deserves a spot before folks with a situation like mine. You'd think they'd wanna push us expendable types in to the thick of it first but reckon not anymore. Hopefully that'll change next time some hot spot starts ratcheting up...

 

[jmar]

Fuckin really.. people are mad about freakshows not being allowed to serve. Me with a non violent non sexual charge as a juvenile ain't allowed to enlist. Fuck the trannies, let dudes like me in first. All I wanna do is fuckin infantry! And I scored 94 on the ASVAB.. no fuckin way a tranny faggot deserves a spot before folks with a situation like mine. You'd think they'd wanna push us expendable types in to the thick of it first but reckon not anymore. Hopefully that'll change next time some hot spot starts ratcheting up...

I can't join because a vision technicality, even though I have been shooting guns since I was 8... But when a man who purposely injects themselves with hormones to make himself physically weaker and attaches 20lb meatbags on their chest it then becomes a human right violation if they can't join? I quickly learned growing up the military's rules are ass backwards. This was a step in the right direction so maybe Trump will change more rules who knows.

 

[cronos0000]

this is why the Koreans, Russian, Chinese laugh at us, our military has become a joke, i wonder why a man wont be proud of being a man personally i wake up every morning and i thank God i piss standing up. i dont give a rats behind what anyone thinks about me, i am old school and love it that way, i hate to see things like this and i stay away from people like this.

 

[cronos0000]

I'm guessing he "transitioned" after his service.
The above would be the answer to this question.

R

so he was a dude while and service and a babe when he got retired, how convenient for him.

 

[cronos0000]

wow, i have been reading these comments and following this thread, different opinions and a few people agree with each other....i just take to me that this world has exceed CRAZY

 

[witchazel]

When a transgender has to drug test do you force a woman to look at his/her dick? Or do you force a service member to have the trans member watch their urine come out of their urethra? The answer is yes according to antidiscrimination laws.

 

[TheGerman]

Military service is not a right. If you want to be a tranny, go be a tranny, but if the contract says you can't be, well then you either sign it or you fuck off and go do whatever the fuck trannies do.

Here are a few facts to consider:

- The military is designed to destroy the enemy. Period. We need to get more in gear with this, but that's a different conversation.
- The military is comprised of people who will destroy the enemy.
- These people rely on each other to carry out their orders and come back safe, after destroying the enemy.
- There is nothing in your 'transition' to being a tranny that can possible add to carrying out order properly, or keeping the guy next to you safe. It brings absolutely NOTHING to the table in these respects.

It's a distraction from the primary goal - destroy the enemy. We need to get back to 'total war' and the mindset that we are here to destroy the enemy. Nothing else. If being a tranny somehow gave you superhuman powers, then we can talk. Since all it does it prove to me that you have a mental disorder, you need to go do your tranny shit somewhere else.

 

[TheGerman]

so he was a dude while and service and a babe when he got retired, how convenient for him.

He's a dude, playing a chick, that's playing a dude, that used to be a chick in the head, while being a dude in the military.

 

[Maggot]

Military service is not a right. If you want to be a tranny, go be a tranny, but if the contract says you can't be, well then you either sign it or you fuck off and go do whatever the fuck trannies do.

Here are a few facts to consider:

- The military is designed to destroy the enemy. Period. We need to get more in gear with this, but that's a different conversation.
- The military is comprised of people who will destroy the enemy.
- These people rely on each other to carry out their orders and come back safe, after destroying the enemy.
- There is nothing in your 'transition' to being a tranny that can possible add to carrying out order properly, or keeping the guy next to you safe. It brings absolutely NOTHING to the table in these respects.

It's a distraction from the primary goal - destroy the enemy. We need to get back to 'total war' and the mindset that we are here to destroy the enemy. Nothing else. If being a tranny somehow gave you superhuman powers, then we can talk. Since all it does it prove to me that you have a mental disorder, you need to go do your tranny shit somewhere else.

I think you summed it up pretty well there German.

 

[cronos0000]

He's a dude, playing a chick, that's playing a dude, that used to be a chick in the head, while being a dude in the military.

No offense to any transgender or sexual out here but this one one of the thing i can never understand. do these people feel GOD is an idiot for making them the way they are ?

 

[FS1]

ISIS says the west is depraved and immoral...Things like this only prove their point. You want to wack your pee pee off and become a girl? Fine. Just don't try and force the rest of us to think its normal. This crap has no place in the military.

Maybe they should form a tranny unit. Make them always the first to fight. The problem will resolve itself.


BTW This whole thing is just a way to get free sex change ops. I say go pay for your own Adadicktomy or Removeadickfromy!!!

 

[vh20]

BTW This whole thing is just a way to get free sex change ops.

I proposed the same thing in the Klinger thread a day or two ago. And even if it WASN'T to begin with, it certainly will become the reason.

 

[W54/XM-388]

And just like that the media's "Russia" obsession is replaced with the new outrage......
Toss in a bit of drama on the staff & a bit of name calling.....

Genius...

 

[pmclaine]

Funny how the Dems so quickly welcome and accept anyone they previously excoriated once fired by Trump.

Im expecting St Priebus to be totally lip locked with a leg wrap by Chuck Schumer by nightfall.

I like the Trump ass kicking.

Jeff Sessions, who I like, has had his cage shook and is becoming a little more visible with his good works. Trump just wants him out there in front of the media showing what the admin is doing.

Kelly has been great at DHS, the swamp will have its hands full. A South Boston lad. I hope an able replacement continues his good works at DHS.

If Scaramooch claims Kelly sucks his own cock he may have his hands full.

I think Kelly wants to make sure his terrible losses have not been in vain. I wish him fair winds and following seas.

 

[Greg Langelius *]

I think Scaramouche is a sharp, necessary tool being applied to a glaring problem. Once done, I think he also needs to be turned out to pasture, or promoted in a classic organizational move entitled 'Lateral Arabesque'. His Social justice stances and strong pro-gun control bias have got to go.

I think that a predictable script is being played out, where the 'campaign helpfuls' get a parachute along with a firm pat on their backs (right out the door), and then we get the hard-assed troopers carrying the fight to the enemy. There is an internal enemy, and they have defined themselves very clearly.

...And welcome, aboard. General. Kelly; your arrival is long anticipatede.

Congresscritters tend to be one-issue demagogues, concentrating on the thing they point to as their supreme achievements in office when the re-election campaigns come back around. I think Trump needs some one-on-ones with the problem critters, making it indelibly clear that executive action restricting funding for such foibles will not be released in their districts, or even nationwide. This was a pretty standard political tactic used by the previous administration. Sauce for the donkey, sauce for the elephant.

The 'disloyal opposition' has personified their own epithet for conservatives. They are the true despicables. Mr. Schumer..., evasive, elusive, devious; I wouldn't trust that guy with a burnt match. I've been following him since his incumbency as my Brother's Congresscritter, right up until he was representing me in the Senate; yet another reason why my stomach turned conclusively and I left NY. He's shrewd. He understand that when one sets out to hunt tigers, one brings along a goat or two. They are an unavoidable distraction to the tigers. For now, the Russians wear the goat leash. What the tigers really want is a piece or two of the hunters, but they just don't seem able to get past the goats.

I think there's still considerable hope for Jeff Sessions. As for the Russians, I'd be seriously disappointed if they didn't try to jam a stick into the spokes of our elections, on both sides; and then play the publicity to the hilt, riding it for as far as it could take them. Everything about this Liberal smokescreen plays as a win/win for the Russians. As for recusal, Jeff needs to learn that a public figure plays coy at his own peril. Shrinking from opposition criticism is unbecoming, particularly when it's done in advance. There's still time to step up, Jeff, and nobody will think the less of you for it. Nobody who's opinion is worth more than a spent hen, anyway...

The deep state is terrified of mission creep on their smokescreen project...

I think Ryan and McConnell need to be given a good close look at the Pirate's plank, so they can be persuaded to understand their true roles in the ultimate scheme of the Trump evolution. Paul Ryan was right after all, he didn't want to be Speaker. And now, I don't like him for it, either. There must be someone better for the task. Mitch, he's a hand wringer, not a doer. Between the two of them, motivation should be their middle name. But it isn't. It's beginning to look like they couldn't motivate a fart after a bean eating marathon. Personally, I think Congress' lack of motivation most accurately reflects their own. They are not effective leaders. They brandish the carrot, but seem to have misplaced their sticks,

For this Nation to move to a greater place, Congress needs to commit to that parade. Right now, all they seem to be demonstrating is that are dissonant individuals incapable of enduring what they envision as imperfection. I suggest they are delusional choosers in an off-the-rack world.

The Dems are hypocrisy redefined in more blatant terms. They have consciously and deliberately chosen to be counterproductive. I think their roles in such things should be accentuated and publicized in more individual and personal terms. To me, it has become rather blatantly obvious that they have chosen to be not only staunch enemies of conservatism, but also of the nation's welfare itself In practical terms. The differences between them and foreign subversive enemy agents has become pretty indistinguishable. They are dealing in out and out subversive treasonous behaviors. The distinctions between admirable personal expression and domestic terrorism have become conclusively breached. Their extreme overextensions of personal misconduct portrayed as the innocent exercise freedoms are now ludicrous to the point where their ultimate effect is to mock and nullify the very freedoms which are claimed as justifications for those excesses. Freedoms can only suffer under such assault.

Whatever happens next, the Dems have made up the bed we will be all compelled to sleep upon. It's gonna get ugly, and I think that the sooner it comes, the better. The farther the pendulum swings, the farther to the opposite it rebounds, and neither extremes are good for our Nation.

When you're traversing Hell, don't slow down... To Hell with appearances, we need to floor it. Now.

Greg

Back on topic; I wonder what other protected deviant splinter groups are asking the military to gloss over a self-destructive imperative like the 41% transgender suicide attempt rate. This is what transgenders bring to the table by their own admission.

 

[Alphatreedog]

Qoted Greg

Back on topic; I wonder what other protected deviant splinter groups are asking the military to gloss over a self-destructive imperative like the 41% transgender suicide attempt rate. This is what transgenders bring to the table by their own admission.[/QUOTE]


Then it would be a dude playin a chick whos a dude who's a corpse . Maybe we should be tryin to do better than 41% . Seems even that's half assed .

 

[Gunfighter14e2]

Mental illness comes in all forms, but one place it should never be allowed is by those who hold this country's secrets, or do it's bidding.
Confusion about who you are is a mental illness, so the shrinks say.

Strange how quick he wants to fight like a guy, but likes wearing heels while speaking out, that seem odd to anyone but me?

 

[boomer81]

I never served thanks to all that did. But my taxes foot some of the bill and I don't think it should go to sexual reassignment surgery. Especially when the va is so fucked up. Fix that and help the ones who really need it. Like my terminally I'll best friend who was in for 20 and did 3 tours in nam. That's my 2 cents