Howa 1500 Barreled Action - 6.5 Creedmoor - 24 Inch - Heavy #6 - Threaded

[TXSGFmrCWO3]

I couldn't help it. Brownells dropped the price of the Howa barreled action to $387.

Since I've already got the original stock and Howa furniture from the .308 I moved to an MDT LSS, my resistance was next to nothing.

My logic was, here's this perfectly good stock, scope rail, bottom medal, magazines, Timney trigger. It looks lonely. It doesn't make sense. I was wasting all that stuff. I hate waste.

Shooter logic is absolutely inescapable.

 

[christopher.dow]

That rationale filled my safe. Try the Criterion barrel.

 

[TXSGFmrCWO3]

Thanks for that. Didn't realize they had a pre-fit Howa. I was afraid that Pac-Nor was my only option for Howa when I want to go custom.

BTW, I couldn't find on Criterion's site what the rifling is - 5R?

 

[scudzuki]

I should have bought a 300WM barreled action for the disgustingly low sale price when they had them in stock.

 

[TXSGFmrCWO3]

Maybe if I wait for a while, I can get the Howa 6.5 on sale. On the flip-side, I wonder if I would have bought the Creedmoor after I read their FAQ on barrel life: "in the neighborhood of 2,000 – 3,000 rounds with an untreated barrel." http://criterionbarrels.com/support/criterion-barrel-life

At least that gives me an idea how long the factory barrel is likely to last. I'm certainly not going to replace it with anything that's not chrome lined or nitrided.

 

[spife7980]

I'm certainly not going to replace it with anything that's not chrome lined or nitrided.

Why?

Or I guess a better question would be, where exactly are you planning to find one? These arent junk ar15 barrels after all. When you shoot out the factory tube just put a premium aftermarket barrel on and be amazed.

 

[TXSGFmrCWO3]

The Criterion avenue looked like a good possibility. They advertised both nitiriding and chrome lining for the Howa 1500 pre-fit barrels.

The only gunsmith I know of that specializes in Howa's is Pac-Nor, and they have only stainless steel and chromalloy, no nitride or chrome lining.

Since the wife has been through my Gene Williams custom Rem700 M24 tack drivers in .308 and 30-06, I'm trying to do this 6.5mm thing on my tighter, now-retired budget.

Any suggestions are always welcome.

 

[TXSGFmrCWO3]

Well, I picked up the barreled receiver earlier today from my FFL. I was impressed at the bluing. The finish is extremely dark, uniform, and shiny.

After fitting the Timney #611 to the receiver, I was about to mount everything in the temporary Hogue stock I plan to use for break-in, when the damned thing fell over and broke 1/2 inch off the trigger. Argh! Stupid!

So, back to the factory H.A.C.T. while I talk to Timney about repairs.

 

[flatland1]

Hey, just go to you tube & check out one of the videos on how to disassemble & shorten the trigger return spring. I clipped just over one coil off the spring in one of my Howa Mini actions and wound up with a very nice 1-1/2lb break. And if that's too light for you, just adjust it for a little more weight. I doubt I'll ever spend the $$$ for another Timney trigger for any of my Howas.

 

[TXSGFmrCWO3]

I'll check into it. Thanks.

 

[b6graham]

Does bartlein do nitride or chrome lining? What's wrong with stainless steel? This isn't an AR

 

[TXSGFmrCWO3]

Good point. I've always gone with SS before, but I'm seeing so many rifles coming out nitrided today I was just curious. In a way, for me it really doesn't matter since all my bullets are coated with hBN (hexagonal Boron Nitride). The bearing resistance is heavily reduced in both chromalloy and SS.

I have quite a bit of shooting before I decide anyway. The Criterion solution looks interesting. I really would like to be able to swap barrels myself.

 

[flatland1]

I don't know of any custom barrel maker that's actually making match grade bbls who will chrome line them. Chrome lining adds another variable to the bore diameter, which defeats the purpose of paying for a custom bbl with a uniform bore.

 

[TXSGFmrCWO3]

Granted, that's what I've always heard. Check out the Criterion barrels site though. They claim to be able to retain accuracy.

Maybe someone with first hand experience can share.

 

[spife7980]

I’ve never seen a remage from them with those coatings. My ar barrel, yes. You should call them and verify that they’ll do it for you. I doubt it.

 

[TXSGFmrCWO3]

I’ve never seen a remage from them with those coatings. My ar barrel, yes. You should call them and verify that they’ll do it for you. I doubt it.

Here's the info they have on their site:

http://criterionbarrels.com/support/chrome-lined-vs-salt-bath-nitrided-barrels

 

[spife7980]

Well I just called them up for you. They dont do the chrome lining on a remage because it requires too big of a minimum order for them to (no one wants it) but they do offer a nitride service if you want it but its a very minimal number that get their remage barrels nitrided.

I dont imagine any of the on the shelf offerings at northland for instance would be nitrided.

 

[TXSGFmrCWO3]

Well I just called them up for you. They dont do the chrome lining on a remage because it requires too big of a minimum order for them to (no one wants it) but they do offer a nitride service if you want it but its a very minimal number that get their remage barrels nitrided.

I dont imagine any of the on the shelf offerings at northland for instance would be nitrided.

Interesting. Thanks. BTW, Northland doesn't even list the Howa custom fit even though Criterion has it on their website. I guess when the time comes I'll have to order it directly.

 

[TXSGFmrCWO3]

Finally got to the range to start breaking the new rig in. I had an original Howa DBM setup, the factory Hogue stock, and a Valdada IOR 2-Piece rail to mount the SWFA SS 10x42.

I read up on Mike Rock's barrel burnishing technique for new barrels. He would use a moly/alcohol solution to saturate the bore. When the alcohol dried, he would then burnish the barrel with moly powder saturated patches for 100 strokes, rest and repeat. After, a couple of dry patches ensure that loose powder is removed.

I figured since hBN (hexagonal boron nitride) is slicker and has smaller particles than moly and gasses off at 2500c vs 400c for moly, it might be worth a try. So, I mixed up a hBN & alcohol solution and got to work. I imagine that the theory is, the nano particles penetrate and lubricate the bore to reduce friction during breakin. After the "burnishing" the bore shined like a diamond when illuminated with a bore light.

At the range, I slowly fired a 20 round box of cheap ammo - Federal NonTypical Whitetail 140gr SP. After sight-in at 100yd, the following target is from the rest of the box at 200yd.

Wind was variable 3-10, left to right, unadjusted. The grouping amuses me. The cheap Federal is typical of the SP ammo that's been bounced for miles on a delivery truck then manhandled in the warehouse and store. The points all looked like either chisels or mushrooms. The flyer at 0930 really makes me chuckle. That must have been a chisel tip.

I'm about to clean, which should give an idea how much the hBN burnishing reduced fouling.

At the very least, it's an interesting experiment.

 

[flatland1]

Wonder if Howa hammer-forges their bbls like Ruger used to - the complete bore & chamber, by using a mandrel that had the chamber form at the breech end? Not using a reamer to cut the chamber would do away with the sharp reamer-cut edges in the leade, which is where most of the copper fouling starts. If that's the case, there wouldn't be much reason to think about bbl break-in with the Howa OEM bbls.

ETA - I've got several new Howa take-off bbls & a Hawkeye borescope, so went out to examine a couple of them - one a 243 off a 1500 SA, the other a 6.5 Grendel off a Mini. I thought I could see reamer cutting marks in the leade on one land in the 243, but the 6.5 Grendel bbl looked awfully smooth/slick in the leade - couldn't see any evidence that the lead was cut instead of being formed. A sample of two bbls isn't much to go on, and I'm still curious as to how Howa does their chambers.

 

[TXSGFmrCWO3]

Wonder if Howa hammer-forges their bbls like Ruger used to - the complete bore & chamber, by using a mandrel that had the chamber form at the breech end? Not using a reamer to cut the chamber would do away with the sharp reamer-cut edges in the leade, which is where most of the copper fouling starts. If that's the case, there wouldn't be much reason to think about bbl break-in with the Howa OEM bbls.

ETA - I've got several new Howa take-off bbls & a Hawkeye borescope, so went out to examine a couple of them - one a 243 off a 1500 SA, the other a 6.5 Grendel off a Mini. I thought I could see reamer cutting marks in the leade on one land in the 243, but the 6.5 Grendel bbl looked awfully smooth/slick in the leade - couldn't see any evidence that the lead was cut instead of being formed. A sample of two bbls isn't much to go on, and I'm still curious as to how Howa does their chambers.

Well, Howa does advertise "Cold hammer forged barrel."

Regardless, Howa does have posted a pretty detailed break-in instruction: https://www.legacysports.com/wp-content/uploads/howa-break-in.pdf

 

[TXSGFmrCWO3]

This is cool. I just ran across the "Howage" barrel from McGowen Barrel.

http://mcgowenbarrel.com/the-howage/

Anyone with experience?

Update: Well, it would be cool if they had any inventory. All I can find on the site is their explanation of the "Howage" barrel.

 

[308pirate]

This is cool. I just ran across the "Howage" barrel from McGowen Barrel.

http://mcgowenbarrel.com/the-howage/

Anyone with experience?

Update: Well, it would be cool if they had any inventory. All I can find on the site is their explanation of the "Howage" barrel.

I would call

 

[308pirate]

Wonder if Howa hammer-forges their bbls

I'm going to take this poor translation from Japanese to English as a yes to your question:

Our sporting rifles feature superior-quality barrels made from cold forging

http://www.howa.co.jp/en/products/firer/

 

[flatland1]

Yes, I was sure the bbls were hammer forged - the question I have is whether they also form the chamber by the same process, or use a reamer on them after the bore is forged.

 

[TXSGFmrCWO3]

Yes, I was sure the bbls were hammer forged - the question I have is whether they also form the chamber by the same process, or use a reamer on them after the bore is forged.

Good question. BTW, very interesting history with Howa. Once upon a time they made Sako's, did button rifling, started making their own, got into patent infringement problems, started hammer forging, two stage trigger, etc. Doesn't mention if they ream or forge the chamber.

If I had a bore scope, I could probably guess, but I dun't.

Also, something else I learned after buying the barreled action. Apparently Howa's are becoming a hot item. In addition to McGowen (they say) and Criterion, Pac-Nor and Sin (http://www.sinarms.net/howa-rifle-prefit-barrel/) are offering pre-fit barrels. So, I'll shoot the factory barrel for a while as I save for the new stock/chassis, then start saving for the pre-fit.

I'm really looking forward to reloading the 6.5 Creed once I manage to sell my custom Rem 30-06.

 

[308pirate]

Pac-Nor's Howa barrels are shouldered and still need to be headspaced with a lathe. They do not make any shoulderless barrels that headspace with a barrel nut like McGowen and Criterion do.

 

[308pirate]

Yes, I was sure the bbls were hammer forged - the question I have is whether they also form the chamber by the same process, or use a reamer on them after the bore is forged.

Yeah, don't know the answer to that for sure.

But based on what I do for a living I'm gonna guess they drill/hammer forge the bore and drill/ream the chamber. That's a much more flexible and cost effective tooling and production setup when you're not turning out barrels by the tens of thousands a year.

 

[TXSGFmrCWO3]

Pac-Nor's Howa barrels are shouldered and still need to be headspaced with a lathe. They do not make any shoulderless barrels that headspace with a barrel nut like McGowen and Criterion do.

Thanks, I missed that. I should have clicked on the "description" link.

 

[308pirate]

Thanks, I missed that. I should have clicked on the "description" link.

Just figured I'd save you some money/aggravation

 

[CavReconScout]

Interesting. Thanks. BTW, Northland doesn't even list the Howa custom fit even though Criterion has it on their website. I guess when the time comes I'll have to order it directly.

I called NSS last week and ordered a Criterion pre-fit for my Howa. Jim orders them from the factory I ordered a Palma 6mm Creed Match 1/7” twist to play with.

 

[spife7980]

Pac-Nor's Howa barrels are shouldered and still need to be headspaced with a lathe. They do not make any shoulderless barrels that headspace with a barrel nut like McGowen and Criterion do.

The "prefits" they have listed on the webpage, correct.

However, I think they will make it a barrel nut style, at least they were open to doing it when I called them on my remington last February, the caveat is that it will take just as long as for you to get as a shouldered barrel. Might be worth a call to see if they would on a howa specifically.

 

[TXSGFmrCWO3]

I called NSS last week and ordered a Criterion pre-fit for my Howa. Jim orders them from the factory I ordered a Palma 6mm Creed Match 1/7” twist to play with.

That's good to know. Thanks.

 

[TXSGFmrCWO3]

The "prefits" they have listed on the webpage, correct.

However, I think they will make it a barrel nut style, at least they were open to doing it when I called them on my remington last February, the caveat is that it will take just as long as for you to get as a shouldered barrel. Might be worth a call to see if they would on a howa specifically.

I'm sure at some point in the near future Pac-Nor and most of the rest will offer a truly DIY barrel for Howa. Luckily, I won't be needed one for a little while and the future looks good. Thanks for the update.

 

[308pirate]

The "prefits" they have listed on the webpage, correct.

However, I think they will make it a barrel nut style, at least they were open to doing it when I called them on my remington last February, the caveat is that it will take just as long as for you to get as a shouldered barrel. Might be worth a call to see if they would on a howa specifically.

Yeah it should be no more difficult to turn a shoulderless barrel. I bet they would for a small charge or even no extra cost other than waiting the full lead time.