Howa 1500 vs bergara HMR

[stello1001]

Hello all,

I am wanting to get a new rifle and considering those two options listed in the subject line. What is it exactly that I am looking for? Consistency and/or accuracy. I really don't have much to spend as I graduated college not too long ago and have started working in an entry level position as of now. I have been searching around for Rem700 barreled actions and some savage 10s as well. I figured if I could put together a rifle little by little I might be able to save a few dollars. Anyhow, I don't feel too sure if that's the way to go. I see a lot posts in many different boards of people claiming to shoot under a minute with say for example a savage 12 varmint rifle that could be had for around $400. I just don't know if this is real or not. Perhaps those ppl got lucky with a very good out of the box shooter??? To make long story short, I think I will stick to what's titled above for peace of mind. Can anybody share some experiences on either? Or can anyone recommend something else that I might be missing out on? I honestly don't reload and don't have plans of doing so soon. I would be using factory match ammo for practicing. I don't think my shooting will ever exceed 700 yards. I want it chambered in 6.5 creedmoor.

I found a howa 1500 barreled action at brownells for about $400.00 plus. If I get that one, I was thinking maybe going with a B&C stock??? I'll post links below.


https://www.brownells.com/rifle-part...l_1=Howa__1500

https://www.stockysstocks.com/stocks...ion-stock.html

If I go with the bergara, I don't think I'll be upgrading the stock anytime soon. I really like that given my low income, I am able to find lots of aftermarket parts, should I ever want to do anything to it. With the howa, I feel like there isn't much aftermarket support.

I don't expect expect to be shooting half minute groups or better. Honestly, if I can shoot right under a minute, I'd be really happy with the purchase. I will be using it for hunting every now and then, but weight isn't much of an issue since it's a short walk to my deer blind (I'm in South Texas).

Having said all this, anybody have any suggestions? I'm really just trying to get the best bang for my buck so I could finally get myself out there shooting.

Thanks,

Serg

 

[308pirate]

Howas have all the aftermarket support you're going to need. There's not a lot of redundant, useless junk for them like there is for Remingtons and that's fine with me.

Having said that, if you get a Howa stick it into a KRG 180-xray chassis and be done. Don't waste time and money with B&C stocks.

However, a Howa barreled action + KRG chassis is more than you will pay for a Bergara HMR which needs nothing but a scope and bipod.

 

[308Gunner]

I don't think you can go wrong with a Bergara and as you mentioned after market support is good and I have seen 3 and all three have been shooters

 

[CavReconScout]

I just bought a Howa HCR for $867 at Bud's guns. I just picked it up Friday, and am really impressed with it so far. I really like the chassis and the 2 stage trigger.

 

[stello1001]

That's what calls my name from the Howa. It comes with a 2 stage trigger and I think it has a heavier barrel, will it heat up slower than the bergara???

 

[stello1001]

I just bought a Howa HCR for $867 at Bud's guns. I just picked it up Friday, and am really impressed with it so far. I really like the chassis and the 2 stage trigger.

I've been checking that HCR out and it's looking really attractive. All I would need is a 20 MOA rail and rings since I already have glass. How's their accuracy/consistency? Can't find much on them online.

 

[fhsjrm]

Read David Petzal's reviews of the Howa HCR and Bergara HMR. He loves them both. I have the Bergara and it's a hell of a shooter. I'm very new to long range shooting and I shot this 1.72" group at 300 yards a couple weeks ago with my Bergara in 6.5 Creedmoor and I barely know what I'm doing.

https://www.fieldandstream.com/rifle-review-bergara-b-14-hmr-part-1

https://www.fieldandstream.com/rifle-review-bergara-b-14-hmr-part-2

https://www.fieldandstream.com/rifle-review-howa-hcr

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro

 

[afd77]

I’ve got the Bergara in 6.5 as a dedicated varmint/hunting rifle. Have shot it to 1,000 yds. without issue. Fit & function are great with a lot of features for the price. The stock, even though it’s plastic, is better in my opinion than a B&C and certainly has more features including QD sling studs and the fact that it already accepts AICS mags. It’s plenty stiff with the aluminum frame and bedding block. That said, I didn’t care for the color so I sanded and painted mine.

 

[Terry Cross]

We have seen 3 consistent issues with the Bergara's when they show up at a class.

1: Scope base coming loose. Their base design is terrible. This is on all models including the LRP Elite.
2: Stock bolts coming loose. Especially on the HMR models. Cheek rest hardware on the HMRs is terrible also.
3: More issues than acceptable with ejection.

Not enough exposure to Howa to have an opinion on them.

./

 

[Terry Cross]

Oh, I forgot to add that almost without exception the shooters would have feed issues whenever the mag would be pushed into a prop, bag or backpack. Between the flex of the PMags and the short vertical support in their various magwells, it was a real issue.

 

[stello1001]

Oh, I forgot to add that almost without exception the shooters would have feed issues whenever the mag would be pushed into a prop, bag or backpack. Between the flex of the PMags and the short vertical support in their various magwells, it was a real issue.

At first, I was really convinced I wanted to go with a b14 HMR. After the HCR was mentioned here, it caught my eye. I think I am now leaning more towards it. Does anybody else have any other recommendations? Is the Howa a solid contender? Should i include savage barreled actions and Rem700 barreled actions into my search as well? I'm honestly really starting to think I might go with the HCR but just want to make sure I'm not missing out on any solid potential contenders.

 

[flyright]

From what I've seen the Bergara is pretty hit or miss (no pun intended). I would not buy one today expecting a half moa rifle. Just my .02...

 

[afd77]

We have seen 3 consistent issues with the Bergara's when they show up at a class.

1: Scope base coming loose. Their base design is terrible. This is on all models including the LRP Elite.
2: Stock bolts coming loose. Especially on the HMR models. Cheek rest hardware on the HMRs is terrible also.
3: More issues than acceptable with ejection.

Not enough exposure to Howa to have an opinion on them.

./

This is certainly something to take into account. While I haven’t had these issues, I also have only shot mine off of a bench or bipod. It hasn’t been to any classes or matches or been ran hard at all. The example of my good luck with the gun is a sample of one, and Terry certainly would have seen more of these guns used in a lot more rugged conditions than mine. While it’s disappointing to hear of these issues, I’m still comfortable with my purchase for what it will be used for. If you plan on taking a lot of classes or shooting matches, I would probably steer in a different direction having read these issues.

 

[jpspeeddemon]

The Howa HCR chassis is a pretty good design. It has a useful barricade stop built in to the front of the mag well. Frank is finishing up his review of the Howaz HCR, so maybe wait until that comes out to make you're decision.

 

[308pirate]

Yeah Howas can shoot

 

[domdoc]

I would not hesitate to get the Howa, although Bergara has a lot of followers. The Bell & Carlson stock is most likely going to be just fine. I have put a few actions in them, and everything fit well and shot fabulous (under 1/2" for 5 shots at 100 yds). I have worked on several Weatherby Vanguards, which are basically Howas, and they shot lights out, also under 1/2" at 100 yds. The triggers were bad, but I did not adjust them. I have looked at the Howa chassis rifle, and its trigger is very good, so that's not an issue any longer. Weatherby or Howa chassis rifle would be my choice, and I'm mostly a Winchester/Savage guy.

 

[CavReconScout]

I had my Howa HCR out today breaking in the barrel. Only ran 20 rounds thru it, but I think it’s going to be a shooter. I plan I running mine in local and regional PRS type comps next year. FYI Hornady factory 140 ELD-M was running 2660 FPS with only 20rds thru it.

oh I forgot to add we borescoped it last night and the barrel looked really good. The gunsmith was pretty impressed.

 

[308pirate]

We have seen 3 consistent issues with the Bergara's when they show up at a class.

1: Scope base coming loose. Their base design is terrible. This is on all models including the LRP Elite.
2: Stock bolts coming loose. Especially on the HMR models.

Could you expand on this? I don't doubt what you say about the screws being loose. I'm just trying to understand how the design of the base contributes to loose screws.

 

[brianf]

im not big on telling people how bad certain gear is (using it is not my full time job);
but if Mr. Cross has specific issues... enough for posting i would stay clear...i mean run.

 

[stello1001]

I think I'm pretty much set on getting the HCR with next paycheck. Should I be concerned about budsgunshop running out of inventory within the next week and a half or so? Or perhaps their price going up? I am really interested in that rifle but not if the price goes up as I really need to stay budget-minded.

 

[308pirate]

Should I be concerned about budsgunshop running out of inventory within the next week and a half or so? Or perhaps their price going up?

I doubt both.

But if you're so concerned, buy it on credit and pay it off on payday.

 

[CavReconScout]

I am fairly sure Bud's does layaway.

 

[Matt @ LSI]

Hey guys, if there are any questions i can answer in this regard let me know! Happy Shooting!

 

[Loe]

I bought a howa HCR few months back as an upgrade from my savage. I haven't shot it yet but as far as quality goes it's amazing. Bolt manipulation is spot on and smooth. No complaints minus the buttstock has no recoil pad. I remedied that with a large limbsaver pad, drilled one hole so they would line up with the luth ar buttstock. The HCR is a Big Bang for your buck, I purchased my .308 for $1050. The features this rifle has for the money is amazing. Accurate chassis and mag, adjustable length of pull and cheek comb height. Few more days and mine will be wearing a vortex razor gen 2.

 

[stello1001]

Thanks all, I just places my order for the HCR in all black even tho I did like the camo better lol.

 

[Terry Cross]

Could you expand on this? I don't doubt what you say about the screws being loose. I'm just trying to understand how the design of the base contributes to loose screws.

308Pirate,

Their scope base is a simple affair with no recoil lugging built into the system at all.
With the Bergara factory supplied system, the 4 base mounting screws are taking all the shear forces every time the rifle recoils.

A few base manufacturers like NightForce, Seekins Precision and Badger have a small lip that extends down below the base and is made to contact the front face of the ejection port. All 4 screw holes and countersinks on those bases are elongated on the X-axis of the part to allow for tolerance differences in receivers. This way, you can start your base screws, move the base forward until the lug contacts the front of the ejection port then torque the screws down. Once this is done, all recoil forces are transferred directly from the accelerating receiver into the base without stressing the fasteners.

Some action manufacturers that make their own bases but do not have a lug on the base but handle this by using a rigid pin system going through the base and into the receiver. (Old Surgeon RSR and a few other customs).

The worst possible scenario for a base that has no recoil lugging feature is to combine a relatively light weight rifle with a heavy weight scope. That combination of fast recoil and heavy mount/scope means the fasteners are having to control an especially violent shear that they were not made to handle on their own. Same issue happens a ton with MIRS and MARS rails, especially if they are used very often for training with 22/24/27 or 30s clipped on for night fire. Inertia is a cruel bitch.

The Bergaras are relatively light weight for this family of rifles (work guns). When combined with the larger and heavier scopes often meant for that type of work, we have simply seen a repeated failure of the system. Typically a shooter/rifle pair will be shooting well and then everything starts coming unglued down range. Not uncommon to simply walk up to the rifle and clank the scope/ring/base group back and forth because of loose screws.

NOTE: This same issue is often seen with other scope bases like the EGW and a few others that lack the recoil lug feature.

Including that feature in the part during manufacturing means totally different fixturing, extra machining steps and starting with larger pieces of material. All of that makes for a more expensive part. There is a reason that the NF, Seekins and Badgers are not the least expensive parts. They are made right.

NOTE 2: Even though the Bergara claims to be a Rem 700 type receiver, you will not be able to purchase and mount some of the other bases with lugs because the Bergara ejection port is abbreviated and had different dimensions than a true Remington port.

Hope this conveys the idea.

Be safe,

./

 

[stello1001]

308Pirate,

Their scope base is a simple affair with no recoil lugging built into the system at all.
With the Bergara factory supplied system, the 4 base mounting screws are taking all the shear forces every time the rifle recoils.

A few base manufacturers like NightForce, Seekins Precision and Badger have a small lip that extends down below the base and is made to contact the front face of the ejection port. All 4 screw holes and countersinks on those bases are elongated on the X-axis of the part to allow for tolerance differences in receivers. This way, you can start your base screws, move the base forward until the lug contacts the front of the ejection port then torque the screws down. Once this is done, all recoil forces are transferred directly from the accelerating receiver into the base without stressing the fasteners.

Some action manufacturers that make their own bases but do not have a lug on the base but handle this by using a rigid pin system going through the base and into the receiver. (Old Surgeon RSR and a few other customs).

The worst possible scenario for a base that has no recoil lugging feature is to combine a relatively light weight rifle with a heavy weight scope. That combination of fast recoil and heavy mount/scope means the fasteners are having to control an especially violent shear that they were not made to handle on their own. Same issue happens a ton with MIRS and MARS rails, especially if they are used very often for training with 22/24/27 or 30s clipped on for night fire. Inertia is a cruel bitch.

The Bergaras are relatively light weight for this family of rifles (work guns). When combined with the larger and heavier scopes often meant for that type of work, we have simply seen a repeated failure of the system. Typically a shooter/rifle pair will be shooting well and then everything starts coming unglued down range. Not uncommon to simply walk up to the rifle and clank the scope/ring/base group back and forth because of loose screws.

NOTE: This same issue is often seen with other scope bases like the EGW and a few others that lack the recoil lug feature.

Including that feature in the part during manufacturing means totally different fixturing, extra machining steps and starting with larger pieces of material. All of that makes for a more expensive part. There is a reason that the NF, Seekins and Badgers are not the least expensive parts. They are made right.

NOTE 2: Even though the Bergara claims to be a Rem 700 type receiver, you will not be able to purchase and mount some of the other bases with lugs because the Bergara ejection port is abbreviated and had different dimensions than a true Remington port.

Hope this conveys the idea.

Be safe,

./

Wow, this was a lot of detailed info. Thanks for the write up. I actually just literally placed my order on a 20 MOA nightforce base for the HCR I ordered. There wasn't much options for the Howa 1500 but I did find Talley, Nightforce, Warne, and EGW bases all for literally the same price, give or take a couple bucks. I ended up going with the Nightforce. I will definitely look more into this for future occasions. I am not that prs savvy quite frankly, but it makes sense what you say about screws coming loose for lack of a recoil lug.

 

[Loe]

Also be sure to bed your scope base. In my experience I had to with my warne base on my howa

 

[308pirate]

Terry, thanks for the explanation. Makes perfect sense.

You're right, physics is a bitch and she doesn't take no for an answer.

 

[Whatthe?]

Terry thanks for that write up. I have a Bergara BMP 14 and have purchased a (heavy) Vortex Razor Gen II for it. I had planned on using an EGW base, but thanks to you will now look for a NF base… I'm new to all this so am glad you shared that and probably saved me some aggravation.

 

[stello1001]

Damn, rifle literally went up more than 100 bucks already. Glad I purchased when I did...

 

[broll1tx]

We have seen 3 consistent issues with the Bergara's when they show up at a class.

1: Scope base coming loose. Their base design is terrible. This is on all models including the LRP Elite.
2: Stock bolts coming loose. Especially on the HMR models. Cheek rest hardware on the HMRs is terrible also.
3: More issues than acceptable with ejection.

Not enough exposure to Howa to have an opinion on them.

./

Terry Cross - After doing a great deal of research and with every review raving about the Bergara HMR in 6.5 CM, I purchased one and rec'd it this week. After reading your information, I am now not as excited unfortunately. You explained a fix for the #1 issue - scope base with a NF et al but what are your suggestions to fix #2 and #3? I haven't bought my glass yet but have been teetering on the the NF SHV 5x20x56, Vortex Viper PST Gen II 5x25x50, and the Huskemaw Blue Diamond 5x20x50. I live out west and primarily hunt elk in NM/CO. I will be new to the long range shooting community but after going to the NRA Whittington Center and hitting metal targets from 300-1123 yds using my 1940 30-06 Swedish Sniper Rifle and $150 Nikon Buckmaster 3x9 using good ole kentucky windage and an experienced spotter, I now have the "fever." My experienced spotter/old Army buddy let me shoot his $6k 308 set up and it was like taking candy from a baby, I couldn't miss. I can't afford that type of set up but was hoping to make the HMR work for an old hobby and a new one. I have $975 already invested in the rifle. Any suggestions on making my current purchase a better experience, would be greatly appreciated.

 

[308pirate]

I would avoid Huskemaw scopes at all costs.

1/3 "MOA" clicks - WTF
"BDC" turrets - WTF
Weird reticles - WTF

Their tagline is "Eliminate the guess". Ironically, that is exactly what you'll be doing when the density altitude where you are on a particular day is different from whatever DA was used to mark their BDC elevation knob and calibrate the windage sticks on their reticle.

It's a great scope for someone who doesn't bother to learn simple ballistics.

 

[broll1tx]

I would avoid Huskemaw scopes at all costs.

1/3 "MOA" clicks - WTF
"BDC" turrets - WTF
Weird reticles - WTF

Their tagline is "Eliminate the guess". Ironically, that is exactly what you'll be doing when the density altitude where you are on a particular day is different from whatever DA was used to mark their BDC elevation knob and calibrate the windage sticks on their reticle.

It's a great scope for someone who doesn't bother to learn simple ballistics.

308Pirate - thanks for your feedback. Exactly what my experienced spotter told me in no uncertain terms. Here was my response/thinking. I have primarily have been a (bird) hunter most of my life so being close is good enough. I have been using a BDC turret with great success in ranges of 400 yards or less. I was an expert marksman for 9 years in the US Army using only iron sights (but only out to 300 yards). Getting a range and knowing the windage means dead animal in my BDC experience . I saw it as more time pulling the trigger and less time memorizing a table or scribbling on a piece a paper (KISS principle). Huskemaw has been around for 20+ years and the the glass is made by the same company as NF. A reticle is what you get use to.... my buddy's recticle was very "busy" to me. Clearly the LR community is anti-Huskemaw. I get it.

I have been more inclined as of late towards the NF and after reading Terry Cross' info about the HMR it might push me there to match the base. I don't expect to be shooting in any competitions in the near term, if ever. I just enjoyed the satisfaction of hitting targets out to 1123 yards and thought maybe I should do it more often.

Thanks again for your input.

 

[Xander3Zero]

308Pirate - thanks for your feedback. Exactly what my experienced spotter told me in no uncertain terms. Here was my response/thinking. I have primarily have been a (bird) hunter most of my life so being close is good enough. I have been using a BDC turret with great success in ranges of 400 yards or less. I was an expert marksman for 9 years in the US Army using only iron sights (but only out to 300 yards). Getting a range and knowing the windage means dead animal in my BDC experience . I saw it as more time pulling the trigger and less time memorizing a table or scribbling on a piece a paper (KISS principle). Huskemaw has been around for 20+ years and the the glass is made by the same company as NF. A reticle is what you get use to.... my buddy's recticle was very "busy" to me. Clearly the LR community is anti-Huskemaw. I get it.

I have been more inclined as of late towards the NF and after reading Terry Cross' info about the HMR it might push me there to match the base. I don't expect to be shooting in any competitions in the near term, if ever. I just enjoyed the satisfaction of hitting targets out to 1123 yards and thought maybe I should do it more often.

Thanks again for your input.

In my opinion, nothing could be more "KISS" than just having a FFP reticle with mil or MOA subtensions. There's really not a lot of time spent memorizing tables or scribbling on paper. If you can spot your misses (or have a spotter) then you just adjust or hold based on the adjustment needed to get you on target. Learning a few ranges/holdovers for your rifle/ammo/scope combo is pretty basic and won't take you long to adapt to, especially given your experience.

 

[beaverpelt]

Does the NF Howa 1500 base have a recoil lug

 

[308pirate]

Does the NF Howa 1500 base have a recoil lug

My Howa 1500 308 has a scope base (EGW) without a recoil lug. It hasn't come loose in the 3700 rounds I've put through it (no muzzle brake).

IMO this is an overblown problem. Tighten the screws to the correct torque (15 - 20 in-lbs for 6-32 screws) with med strength thread locker and they will not come loose.

 

[308pirate]

308Pirate - thanks for your feedback. Exactly what my experienced spotter told me in no uncertain terms. Here was my response/thinking. I have primarily have been a (bird) hunter most of my life so being close is good enough. I have been using a BDC turret with great success in ranges of 400 yards or less. I was an expert marksman for 9 years in the US Army using only iron sights (but only out to 300 yards). Getting a range and knowing the windage means dead animal in my BDC experience . I saw it as more time pulling the trigger and less time memorizing a table or scribbling on a piece a paper (KISS principle). Huskemaw has been around for 20+ years and the the glass is made by the same company as NF. A reticle is what you get use to.... my buddy's recticle was very "busy" to me. Clearly the LR community is anti-Huskemaw. I get it.

I have been more inclined as of late towards the NF and after reading Terry Cross' info about the HMR it might push me there to match the base. I don't expect to be shooting in any competitions in the near term, if ever. I just enjoyed the satisfaction of hitting targets out to 1123 yards and thought maybe I should do it more often.

Thanks again for your input.

If all your shooting is expected to be 400 yds and in, pick a relatively flat shooting caliber, zero it for around 250 - 300 yds, and get a scope with a BDC reticle with some windage stadia. That's even more KISS.

Burris and Zeiss make quite a few scopes that will do what you need if all you want is to whack a deer inside 400 yards.

 

[broll1tx]

If all your shooting is expected to be 400 yds and in, pick a relatively flat shooting caliber, zero it for around 250 - 300 yds, and get a scope with a BDC reticle with some windage stadia. That's even more KISS.

Burris and Zeiss make quite a few scopes that will do what you need if all you want is to whack a deer inside 400 yards.

This rifle was bought with the intention of getting into some long range targets, mostly paper/steel. I will probably go with the NF and learn to use the reticle the way it is supposed to be. Perhaps keep this old soldier mentally sound as the hairs continue to grey. Thanks again for the insight.

 

[broll1tx]

In my opinion, nothing could be more "KISS" than just having a FFP reticle with mil or MOA subtensions. There's really not a lot of time spent memorizing tables or scribbling on paper. If you can spot your misses (or have a spotter) then you just adjust or hold based on the adjustment needed to get you on target. Learning a few ranges/holdovers for your rifle/ammo/scope combo is pretty basic and won't take you long to adapt to, especially given your experience.

Thanks Xander3Zero for your insight. Do you shoot mil or moa? If that is going to open a whole other can of worms, just disregard the question. Cheers.

 

[308pirate]

Most people who shoot practical long range rifles prefer mils mostly because that's what most others involved in thw sport use and allows a common language. In and of itself the milliradian system isn't better or worse that the minute of angle system. They both measure angles. Whichever way you go its essential that you buy a scope in which the reticle divisions are in the same angular units as the elevation and windage adjustments.

 

[broll1tx]

I am pretty sure that I am getting ready to purchase the NF SHV Rifle Scope 30mm Tube 5-20x56mm Side Focus ZeroSet Matte Product #181577 Nightforce# C534 UPC# 847362007472 and will buy the NF mounts to match. Is there anything else you think I should consider adding to this setup? Any recommendations for online purchase besides OpticsPlanet? I plan on shooting 140 gr ammo (Hornady American Shooter) to initially start with based on research.

 

[308pirate]

I am pretty sure that I am getting ready to purchase the NF SHV Rifle Scope 30mm Tube 5-20x56mm Side Focus ZeroSet Matte Product #181577

I would discourage you from that choice. The reticle is completely unsatisfactory for your stated goal of learning the practical precision rifle game.

You want three things above all else, even if you have to give up some magnification to get them all withing your budget:
1. A reticle in the first focal plane
2. A reticle with subtensions ideally every .2 milliradians and no farther than every .5 milliradians
3. Windage and elevation turrets that adjust in .1 milliradian increments

If a Nightforce is what you want on a limited budget, get this instead: http://nightforceoptics.com/shv/4-14x50-f1

 

[broll1tx]

I would discourage you from that choice. The reticle is completely unsatisfactory for your stated goal of learning the practical precision rifle game.

You want three things above all else, even if you have to give up some magnification to get them all withing your budget:
1. A reticle in the first focal plane
2. A reticle with subtensions ideally every .2 milliradians and no farther than every .5 milliradians
3. Windage and elevation turrets that adjust in .1 milliradian increments

If a Nightforce is what you want on a limited budget, get this instead: http://nightforceoptics.com/shv/4-14x50-f1

Would you suggest spending more for the higher magnification? Being new to this sport but talking with several I know and trust, NF is one of the first names that come out of their mouth. I know there is A LOT of quality glass makers out there. I have a friend that has a new, unused Vortex Viper PST 4-16x50 (Gen I) with a EBR-1 MOA FFP Illuminated he will sell me for $850. I have been leaning toward the Mils scope now that I have decided against the Huskemaw. Initially I was budgeting my complete scope set up around $1500 +/- range.

 

[beaverpelt]

Would you suggest spending more for the higher magnification? Being new to this sport but talking with several I know and trust, NF is one of the first names that come out of their mouth. I know there is A LOT of quality glass makers out there. I have a friend that has a new, unused Vortex Viper PST 4-16x50 (Gen I) with a EBR-1 MOA FFP Illuminated he will sell me for $850. I have been leaning toward the Mils scope now that I have decided against the Huskemaw. Initially I was budgeting my complete scope set up around $1500 +/- range.

Nevermind..

 

[308pirate]

I have a friend that has a new, unused Vortex Viper PST 4-16x50 (Gen I) with a EBR-1 MOA FFP Illuminated he will sell me for $850. I have been leaning toward the Mils scope now that I have decided against the Huskemaw.

You need to decide what is it that you really want.

 

[broll1tx]

Nevermind..

'
thanks for the offer. I am still trying to figure all this out. What do you want for it?

 

[beaverpelt]

'
thanks for the offer. I am still trying to figure all this out. What do you want for it?

I just sold it sorry

 

[broll1tx]

You need to decide what is it that you really want.

I appreciate all the info and insight. I think I have most of what I was looking for and will be making a purchase soon. Kind Regards.

 

[broll1tx]

I would discourage you from that choice. The reticle is completely unsatisfactory for your stated goal of learning the practical precision rifle game.

You want three things above all else, even if you have to give up some magnification to get them all withing your budget:
1. A reticle in the first focal plane
2. A reticle with subtensions ideally every .2 milliradians and no farther than every .5 milliradians
3. Windage and elevation turrets that adjust in .1 milliradian increments

If a Nightforce is what you want on a limited budget, get this instead: http://nightforceoptics.com/shv/4-14x50-f1

I have decided to buy the scope you recommended. Would you suggest a direct mount or a picatinny style rail under? How do you determine the high/med/low for the rings? Anything else you would suggest? Thanks again for you insight.