Howa Detachable Mag Options?

[Phil3]

Just wondering what detachable mag setup options are out there for Howa 1500 actions (not mini action). I know of the Howa kit, and use it on a Howa 223. The bottom metal and mag are polymer, but it does work just fine, and is inexpensive. But, was look for something a bit nicer on my next Howa.

Pacific Tool and Gauge makes a metal setup, as does Wyatt, and CDI. Anyone else? It could be a plus if the mag will handle the short, stubby 6mmBR cartridges, but that is not mandatory.

Thanks,

Phil

 

[brentharlan]

I am using the PTG metal with my Bell and Carlson stock. I had to shim the front of the bottom metal with a washer to align the feed lips a little better. Magpul mags seem to feed the smoothest in my setup, but AICS mags also work. One caviot is that you have to modify a tab in the back of the action, that holds the factory metal open. You basically turn it into a feed ramp. I started with the Howa kit, but didn't feel it would hold up to match use. It also has the magazine release on the front, prone for trouble while working on barriers.

 

[jb0311]

Just wondering what detachable mag setup options are out there for Howa 1500 actions (not mini action). I know of the Howa kit, and use it on a Howa 223. The bottom metal and mag are polymer, but it does work just fine, and is inexpensive. But, was look for something a bit nicer on my next Howa.

Pacific Tool and Gauge makes a metal setup, as does Wyatt, and CDI. Anyone else? It could be a plus if the mag will handle the short, stubby 6mmBR cartridges, but that is not mandatory.

Thanks,

Phil

Phil,
If you don't mind me asking, do you think the howa kit is worth the money? I have been looking at it for a howa with the hogue stock, but the fact that it's plastic has me pretty hesitant. The bottom metal I have is the cerakoted model with the kryptek stock and it looks nice as is. I only use that rifle for the occasional hunt and on paper. Nothing too demanding that should break it. I was just worried the ammoboost kit would look and feel as cheap as it is, and would end up sitting in my parts bin for eternity. How did the polymer mags that come with it work out? I've seen some reviews that say they fit nice and tight, and others that claim they started to fall out after moderate use.

Thanks,
Josh

 

[brentharlan]

Phil,
If you don't mind me asking, do you think the howa kit is worth the money? I have been looking at it for a howa with the hogue stock, but the fact that it's plastic has me pretty hesitant. The bottom metal I have is the cerakoted model with the kryptek stock and it looks nice as is. I only use that rifle for the occasional hunt and on paper. Nothing too demanding that should break it. I was just worried the ammoboost kit would look and feel as cheap as it is, and would end up sitting in my parts bin for eternity. How did the polymer mags that come with it work out? I've seen some reviews that say they fit nice and tight, and others that claim they started to fall out after moderate use.

Thanks,
Josh

I used the Ammoboost kit for a year at matches, so probably had 500 rounds though it. Never had a feeding issue. But, I also over torqued the front action screw and cracked the floorplate. It didn't cause any issue as it fit tight in my stock's inlet. If any one is interested I would ship the floorplate, 5 round mag, and 10 round mag for $80. I really don't have a use for them anymore. The addition of this kit doesn't require any action modification like the PTG bottom metal does, if you are afraid of grinding/modifing you action to make it work.

 

[Phil3]

Phil,
If you don't mind me asking, do you think the howa kit is worth the money? I have been looking at it for a howa with the hogue stock, but the fact that it's plastic has me pretty hesitant. The bottom metal I have is the cerakoted model with the kryptek stock and it looks nice as is. I only use that rifle for the occasional hunt and on paper. Nothing too demanding that should break it. I was just worried the ammoboost kit would look and feel as cheap as it is, and would end up sitting in my parts bin for eternity. How did the polymer mags that come with it work out? I've seen some reviews that say they fit nice and tight, and others that claim they started to fall out after moderate use.

Thanks,
Josh

Josh,

The Howa kit from Brownells is about $48 for the polymer bottom metal and around $45 for a 308 10 round mag. That is quite inexpensive, but for the money, I think it is a decent value. Other bottom metal is over twice that much, to as much as four times the cost. The Howa bottom metal weighs in at 39 grams (1.37 oz), so it is quite light. The Howa 10 round mag weighs in at 97 grams (kit mags are polymer as well). That is 3.4 oz. and it feels quite light. I have a polymer MagPul PMag in 10 round for 308 sized cartridges, and while still sealed in a light plastic bag, it weighs 139 grams (4.9 oz), or about 43% heavier than the Howa. I doubt the plastic bag adds much weight. I have not opened it, as I am not sure I will be using.

I understand your concern over the plastic cracking. I have read reports of that happening, and could see how it is possible. I did hear a representative of Howa quickly mention in a video that torque for the action screws should be 55 in. lbs, but it might have been 50 (was stated in a video, that was a bit hard to hear). Some like to tighten action screws to 65, so perhaps some over tighten. I cannot say with any certainty.

The Howa plastic setup works fine in my 223. It is just a range gun, so is not going to be banged around. However, bottom plastic DOES feel very light, and the mag does not seem all that tough. The mag spring, in both my 223 and 308 Howa mags seems awfully weak, but in the 223, it works fine, so... At least it is easy to load! I have not shot the Howa mag in 308 sized rounds, but it too has a weakish spring. I did load both with 10 rounds (6.5 x 47 for large case), and the somewhat flimsy feeling mags did not bulge and inserted into the bottom metal just fine, which by the way is not a sloppy fit at all.

The mag release is in FRONT of the mag well, meaning it will drop a mag if you put the rifle on a barricade and push up against the front of the mag well. Also, my 223 Howa bottom metal had a decent length mag release lever, but on the recently acquired bottom metal, the lever is short. Too short in my opinion, as it takes too much effort to release the mag, and there is not much lever length to get your finger on. If I keep this, I may make another longer lever on the milling machine I have, using Delrin.

I have not had any problem with the mags getting loose or sloppy in my 223, but it has not been fired much with this mag setup. So, I cannot speak to long term durability.

Overall, for light use, I think the Howa setup is adequate. I explored it because I shoot at a range only, so do not need anything beefier. Some will tell you the little rear tab in the Howa action (at the rear), must be milled away for 308 sized AICS style mags to work. That likely depends on the stock used, but it is something to be wary of. I do not see any need to do this with the Bell & Carlson stock I test fitted the 308 sized Howa mags into, using the Howa bottom metal. Makes sense, it IS Howa's product. But, I have not tried cycling rounds with the 308 to ensure it all works fine. I can test, if you are interested in knowing the results. I have also heard that MDT 308 sized mags will work in the Howa action without removal of the rear tab. I cannot vouch for the validity of that, but thought I would mention it.

The Howa 308 mag has a maximum internal length of about 2.800", but have not measured a round and tried to fit it. I just measured with calipers. The Howa mag has shortish feed lips compared to the MagPul I have. The Howa mags come apart easily. A tip of a bullet or pointed object is all that is needed to get it apart.

I do not wish to mill any part of my action, so will either use the Howa 308 kit in my rifle, find a good quality metal setup (scarce), or use a chassis for a stock that will accept AICS style mags. Remember that MagPul P-Mags are cheaper than the Howa mags, but both are far cheaper than any metal mag. MDT mags are about $40 each and are polymer. The Howa 10 round mag is a bit thinner than the Magpul, but is also slightly longer.

The 223 has no such issues with the action tab, and no fitment information here pertains to the Howa "mini-action", only to the Howa 1500 short action.

Hope this helps, and if you want pics, just shoot me a note, and will do so.

Phil

 

[jb0311]

Josh,

The Howa kit from Brownells is about $48 for the polymer bottom metal and around $45 for a 308 10 round mag. That is quite inexpensive, but for the money, I think it is a decent value. Other bottom metal is over twice that much, to as much as four times the cost. The Howa bottom metal weighs in at 39 grams (1.37 oz), so it is quite light. The Howa 10 round mag weighs in at 97 grams (kit mags are polymer as well). That is 3.4 oz. and it feels quite light. I have a polymer MagPul PMag in 10 round for 308 sized cartridges, and while still sealed in a light plastic bag, it weighs 139 grams (4.9 oz), or about 43% heavier than the Howa. I doubt the plastic bag adds much weight. I have not opened it, as I am not sure I will be using.

I understand your concern over the plastic cracking. I have read reports of that happening, and could see how it is possible. I did hear a representative of Howa quickly mention in a video that torque for the action screws should be 55 in. lbs, but it might have been 50 (was stated in a video, that was a bit hard to hear). Some like to tighten action screws to 65, so perhaps some over tighten. I cannot say with any certainty.

The Howa plastic setup works fine in my 223. It is just a range gun, so is not going to be banged around. However, bottom plastic DOES feel very light, and the mag does not seem all that tough. The mag spring, in both my 223 and 308 Howa mags seems awfully weak, but in the 223, it works fine, so... At least it is easy to load! I have not shot the Howa mag in 308 sized rounds, but it too has a weakish spring. I did load both with 10 rounds (6.5 x 47 for large case), and the somewhat flimsy feeling mags did not bulge and inserted into the bottom metal just fine, which by the way is not a sloppy fit at all.

The mag release is in FRONT of the mag well, meaning it will drop a mag if you put the rifle on a barricade and push up against the front of the mag well. Also, my 223 Howa bottom metal had a decent length mag release lever, but on the recently acquired bottom metal, the lever is short. Too short in my opinion, as it takes too much effort to release the mag, and there is not much lever length to get your finger on. If I keep this, I may make another longer lever on the milling machine I have, using Delrin.

I have not had any problem with the mags getting loose or sloppy in my 223, but it has not been fired much with this mag setup. So, I cannot speak to long term durability.

Overall, for light use, I think the Howa setup is adequate. I explored it because I shoot at a range only, so do not need anything beefier. Some will tell you the little rear tab in the Howa action (at the rear), must be milled away for 308 sized AICS style mags to work. That likely depends on the stock used, but it is something to be wary of. I do not see any need to do this with the Bell & Carlson stock I test fitted the 308 sized Howa mags into, using the Howa bottom metal. Makes sense, it IS Howa's product. But, I have not tried cycling rounds with the 308 to ensure it all works fine. I can test, if you are interested in knowing the results. I have also heard that MDT 308 sized mags will work in the Howa action without removal of the rear tab. I cannot vouch for the validity of that, but thought I would mention it.

The Howa 308 mag has a maximum internal length of about 2.800", but have not measured a round and tried to fit it. I just measured with calipers. The Howa mag has shortish feed lips compared to the MagPul I have. The Howa mags come apart easily. A tip of a bullet or pointed object is all that is needed to get it apart.

I do not wish to mill any part of my action, so will either use the Howa 308 kit in my rifle, find a good quality metal setup (scarce), or use a chassis for a stock that will accept AICS style mags. Remember that MagPul P-Mags are cheaper than the Howa mags, but both are far cheaper than any metal mag. MDT mags are about $40 each and are polymer. The Howa 10 round mag is a bit thinner than the Magpul, but is also slightly longer.

The 223 has no such issues with the action tab, and no fitment information here pertains to the Howa "mini-action", only to the Howa 1500 short action.

Hope this helps, and if you want pics, just shoot me a note, and will do so.

Phil

Thanks for that info. Very helpful.
Josh