Howa twist rate update?

[TonyTheTiger]

I know I saw somewhere on here that Howa was gonna get with the program and speed up their twist rates, particularly in the 223 rifles, but I can't find that info anywhere. Anyone have any idea when this will happen? Looking at the APC rifle for one of my sons but I have no interest in a 9" twist rifle.

 

[Mordamer]

I hope this does happen. I recently sold a Howa because of the twist rate. They are great actions, PT&G makes bottom metal that fits straight into the factory inlet that takes AICS .223 style mags, and they are accurate.

If they came with a 1:8" twist or 1:7" twist they would be great.

 

[Deleted member 10043]

Why do you want a tighter rate on a .223? Are you really shooting that far out.

 

[TonyTheTiger]

Why do you want a tighter rate on a .223? Are you really shooting that far out.

I can't tell if you're being sarcastic or honestly haven't noticed the advancements in heavy .224 bullets that have been made in the last few years allowing the 223 to be a useful long range trainer or fun gun.

 

[Deleted member 10043]

No such thing as a long range trainer with today's popular low recoil high bc calibers and fun guns are plinkers. Apples and oranges. Faster twist does not make a more accurate rifle unless you have the real estate among other things. And we're limiting ourself to a parked on the shelf factory rig. It is a non issue.

 

[TonyTheTiger]

Umm, okay, why don't you provide some useful information pertinent to the question or move the fuck along. FWIW steel hits or miss splashes are way easier to pick up on past 800 yards with 70+ grain bullets.

 

[308pirate]

Umm, okay, why don't you provide some useful information pertinent to the question or move the fuck along.

+1

 

[308pirate]

No such thing as a long range trainer with today's popular low recoil high bc calibers a

Yeah, because burning out a barrel in 2000 rounds instead of 5000+, burning 40+ grains of powder at a pop instead of 25, and blowing $.30 a bullet per shot instead of $0.18 is so much smarter........

 

[Deleted member 10043]

Lol, 22LR would be even cheaper P308.

 

[Deleted member 10043]

Tony, I'm referring to the fact that faster twist are are not any more accurate as slower twist within the normal shooting range of the likes of .30 or .22 calibers. I'm sure you have heard of Pi and the bore and twist rate are related to that. There are several iterations of formulas that give the same result and I'm almost positive even Howa has a little imbalance tolerances. It wasn't difficult to google something so lilja barrels has a write up if you are interested.

 

[TonyTheTiger]

I may look up Lilja's write up, I'm sure its worth reading. But I never mentioned accuracy or lack of relating to barrel twists. I have no doubt that 1 in 9" 223 barrels can be accurate, I just don't have any interest in a rifle that may or may not stabilize heavy bullets.

 

[Deleted member 10043]

At 800 yards I can see that logic. Even heavier bullets at the cost of velocity with compressed loads. But Howa is no different than any other factory manufacturer. You may or may not get a barrel that is more accurate at longer range with a small change in twist due to some acceptable and undisclosed manufacturing tolerance. I'm positive people have been down this route only to discover or disappointed because of that and they chalk it to some weird phenomenon and sell it off and move on to the next one. Here is the link...

http://riflebarrels.com/a-look-at-bullet-imbalance-and-twist/

This stuff is old but still relevant because it is just physics in a perfect world. This same problem is also exasperated by bullet tilt during the reloading process.

 

[308pirate]

Back on topic, Tony if PTG still has barreled actions for $250 pick one up and toss the barrel. Replace it with your custom tube of choice in 1-7 and have at it.

That's what I'm gonna do to mine.

That Lilja article, while technically correct (I'm a dynamic and static balancing SME at work), is irrelevant to real world rifle marksmanship. Buying quality, match grade bullets and barrels negates 99.999% of the concerns raised there. We have no control over the other .001% so fuck it.

 

[Deleted member 10043]

Well if you are going to do it then I will do it has well.

 

[TonyTheTiger]

I considered the PTG action route (now $285), then waiting for the KRG Bravo to show up. Just not sure if I want to exceed the $1k mark and do the legwork of rebarreling for my 7 year old who is still on the fence about whether he likes bolt guns or gas guns better.

 

[BoilerUP]

So...anybody know about those Howa 223 twist rates going forward?

Me, I want a 1:7 because I want to run the 80gr ELD and prefer more stability margin than even a 1:8 offers for that bullet down at a standard atmosphere. Out to 650yd which is the max I have readily available to shoot, I had pretty good luck with a 26" 1:9 barrel shooting the Hornady 75gr HPBT but a fast twist with 80s simply does it mo'betta to there and certainly beyond.

I was disappointed to see Bergara roll out a HMR Pro for 2018 that includes a 20" 223, but they twisted it 1:8. I guess there's always the new factory pointed 80gr SMK which has a Litz BC very similar to the 75gr ELD and plays nice in a 1:8, but why hold back even in "only" a factory rifle?

NEED MOAR 1:7 MOUSEGUNS

 

[Deleted member 10043]

Ah, I see now...

http://www.gunsandammo.com/ammo/pair-barrel-twist-rates-ammo/

 

[Matt @ LSI]

I know I saw somewhere on here that Howa was gonna get with the program and speed up their twist rates, particularly in the 223 rifles, but I can't find that info anywhere. Anyone have any idea when this will happen? Looking at the APC rifle for one of my sons but I have no interest in a 9" twist rifle.

yes, we have updated the Howa .223 to a 1-8". this was my request going forward which will be an inline change. when this occurs, twist rate will be stamped on the barrel to reduce confusion. the new shipment will be available in the next few months.

 

[TonyTheTiger]

yes, we have updated the Howa .223 to a 1-8". this was my request going forward which will be an inline change. when this occurs, twist rate will be stamped on the barrel to reduce confusion. the new shipment will be available in the next few months.

Thanks Matt! Thats exactly what I wanted to hear.

 

[mcfred]

Why do you want a tighter rate on a .223? Are you really shooting that far out.

Not everyone lives in suburbia or in an east-coast pine thicket. With my .223 I 'plink' steel out to 960 in my 9-twist rifle a 3 minute walk out my front door. I would have preferred to have an 8-twist to keep heavier/higher BC bullets super sonic farther, but for a cheap factory rifle 9 does fine.

I can go to another hill and get out to 1875 with my 7mms or .338 at far greater cost than the .223. After reading that the Howas will go to an 8 twist I might pick one up just because I am impressed with the quality of the action alone, especially if the Howa 1500 MINIs get the same treatment.

 

[Deleted member 10043]

Or the Big Thicket?

 

[Frankr]

yes, we have updated the Howa .223 to a 1-8". this was my request going forward which will be an inline change. when this occurs, twist rate will be stamped on the barrel to reduce confusion. the new shipment will be available in the next few months.

Please let us know when it happens and the best way to get a new one.

I assume this is in both the short and mini action 223’s?

 

[jpspeeddemon]

yes, we have updated the Howa .223 to a 1-8". this was my request going forward which will be an inline change. when this occurs, twist rate will be stamped on the barrel to reduce confusion. the new shipment will be available in the next few months.

Matt,

Any updates on when the 8 twist 223's will be available?

 

[Winny94]

No such thing as a long range trainer with today's popular low recoil high bc calibers and fun guns are plinkers. Apples and oranges. Faster twist does not make a more accurate rifle unless you have the real estate among other things. And we're limiting ourself to a parked on the shelf factory rig. It is a non issue.

Trolling?

 

[Deleted member 10043]

Look what followed me here?

 

[Papa Pitufo]

yes, we have updated the Howa .223 to a 1-8". this was my request going forward which will be an inline change. when this occurs, twist rate will be stamped on the barrel to reduce confusion. the new shipment will be available in the next few months.

Matt,

Any updates on when the 8 twist 223's will be available?

Any news on the availability of the fast twist 223s?

 

[freeflight]

yes, we have updated the Howa .223 to a 1-8". this was my request going forward which will be an inline change. when this occurs, twist rate will be stamped on the barrel to reduce confusion. the new shipment will be available in the next few months.

Hi Matt,

Can you clarify the 22-250 heavy barrel varminter twist rate? Brownells says 1:14.
Thanks.

 

[Hawk in WY]

Any news on the availability of the fast twist 223s?

Looks to me they increased the twist to 1:8 only for the mini action which limits COAL.

increasing the twist rate and limiting COAL is not ideal for the heavier bullets the greater twist will stabilize.

 

[ReplicaSnipers]

So...anybody know about those Howa 223 twist rates going forward?

Me, I want a 1:7 because I want to run the 80gr ELD and prefer more stability margin than even a 1:8 offers for that bullet down at a standard atmosphere. Out to 650yd which is the max I have readily available to shoot, I had pretty good luck with a 26" 1:9 barrel shooting the Hornady 75gr HPBT but a fast twist with 80s simply does it mo'betta to there and certainly beyond.

I was disappointed to see Bergara roll out a HMR Pro for 2018 that includes a 20" 223, but they twisted it 1:8. I guess there's always the new factory pointed 80gr SMK which has a Litz BC very similar to the 75gr ELD and plays nice in a 1:8, but why hold back even in "only" a factory rifle?

NEED MOAR 1:7 MOUSEGUNS

I've tried working up loads using three powders (XBR 8208, Varget, H4895) with the 75gn HPBT Match Hornadys in my 24" Heavy 1:9 but no luck. Getting massive pressure signs at higher weight charges. What powder did you use to get accuracy out of them. What velocities was this at? What COAL were you using? I have a big box of them and was sure with a longer barrel in 1:9 that I would find something that would give me the sort of accuracy I get with lighter projectiles out of this gun (0.3-0.4 MOA) and not be landed with a stack of projectiles I can't use!