You're certainly not wrong about that. But given equal barrel length and bullet weight the RM will outrun a PRC.
-
Having trouble using the site?
Contact support
Hunting Rifle: 7mm Rem Mag or 7mm SAUM?
- Thread starter secondofangle2
- Start date
I know, for you, this is just common knowledge. But still, it is a brilliant post. Bravo, Maestro. Bravo.
I am the exact target of 7 PRC. I did not have any other 7s. I did not have any magnums. In fact, my other 5 rifles are 4 in .308 and 1 in 5.56.
So, the 7 PRC suits me fine with a factory rifle and factory ammo, I am getting .64 inches in 3 shots, which is what I want, as a hunter.
But yeah, if a guy already has a 7 RM, just stick with that. I have more than one person take an elk, at distance, with a 7 RM.
And another guy who has hunted from whitetail to elk and black bear with Browning A-Bolt .300 WSM (unbraked.)
Sizing the body to the belt is a somewhat common problem. Look at the forums - there’s countless people chasing it.
That Larry Willis guy even made a special belted magnum die to help solve this.
Forget the SAUM, but I'm now seeing a great argument can be made for the PRC, which has almost identical case capacity to my venerable favorite, the 7RM
safariclub.org
The 7mm PRC: Hornady’s New Offering Fits Right Into Family of Innovative Modern Hunting Cartridges - Safari Club
By Jon R. Sundra It had to happen. I’m talking about the new 7mm Precision Rifle Cartridge, or PRC, from Hornady, the folks who have introduced more
safariclub.org
Last edited:
Another consideration would be the probability of Lapua brass for the PRC in the near future.Forget the SAUM, but I'm now seeing a great argument can be made for the PRC, which has almost identical case capacity to my venerable favorite, the 7RM
The 7mm PRC: Hornady’s New Offering Fits Right Into Family of Innovative Modern Hunting Cartridges - Safari Club
By Jon R. Sundra It had to happen. I’m talking about the new 7mm Precision Rifle Cartridge, or PRC, from Hornady, the folks who have introduced more
Yes, though I’m pretty pleased with my ADG brass so far.
A available pretty regularly here in our PX for a good price.
I bought a 7mm RM as my long range elk rifle last year. Mainly due to good brass availability. The belt is of no consequence to me as I'll bump the shoulder 0.002" when sizing brass. I loaded the last of my RL22 for fire forming and got just over quarter moa with 180 ELDMs at 2820 fps. Slow but after shooting them out to distance even that velocity will be good for elk out to 800 yards. My max distance I'd want to take an elk is 700 yards where I hunt. The paper is at 100 yards, steel 550 yards.
Last edited:
I have a SAUM, 26” barrel and N560 under 180 ELD-M @2970fps.
Or
7mm PRC with 69gr N560 180ELD-M @3000fps and a 22” barrel.
I know which I would be going for now.
Or
7mm PRC with 69gr N560 180ELD-M @3000fps and a 22” barrel.
I know which I would be going for now.
My main hunting rifle is a custom 7 SAUM that I screwed together. It’s on a short action origin and I shoot thw 180 hybrid targets from it. They’re seated at the neck shoulder junction. A warm load of 4831sc pushes them at 2930 from a 24 inch tube. I like it a lot. The only thing I’d change is a shorter barrel for use with a can.
Man, you guys have me really reconsidering the 7RM for the 7PRC. There are many plusses there, and few drawbacks, other than I will need new reloading dies, but I can buy them with the money I save on a custom reamer for the 7RM with .200" more freebore than CIP. Plus I can go with a Defiance AnTi industry standard medium action.
I'd like to see more about 20" 7 RMs, and powder selection. Someone said slower powders to maintain velocity, and while it may be true, it seems counterintuitive to me.
Cause if I can crack the code on that, 20" barrel, 180 ELDMs and a can are coming to eastern WA.
Anyone?
Cause if I can crack the code on that, 20" barrel, 180 ELDMs and a can are coming to eastern WA.
Anyone?
I'm building this for a backcountry bear and elk gun. Like backpacking off trail backcountry.
Going to use XLR or MDT folding stock and 22-24" proof barrel and TBAC 5" Ultra can. If I can stick with 24" barrel I think the standard powders will be fine. If not, may want something slightly faster burning.
I figure I may carry the rifle w/o the can on it, and just shoot with a brake if I don't have time to install can. But with teh folding stock, that may be a moot point, it may not ride too high with the can on and stock folded.
Going to use XLR or MDT folding stock and 22-24" proof barrel and TBAC 5" Ultra can. If I can stick with 24" barrel I think the standard powders will be fine. If not, may want something slightly faster burning.
I figure I may carry the rifle w/o the can on it, and just shoot with a brake if I don't have time to install can. But with teh folding stock, that may be a moot point, it may not ride too high with the can on and stock folded.
20” 7 mag. I have zero interest in pushing it to max pressure and cannot suggest a prc over this enough - literally not one single benefit to the mag over the PRC.
As soon as this is shot out, it's becoming a 7 or 300 PRC - the 7 is nice on recoil and seeing shots, but that 215 on a target (or a miss) is unmistakable.
I don't even know enough to be dangerous. What I have seen a few others say is that if you already have a 7 RM, you may not need a 7 PRC.
Or, and this was a real consideration when there was not enough guns and ammo and parts for 7 PRC (though you can order some from Hornady,) if you wanted to build custom, build a 7 RM. If you want a factory rifle doing well with factory ammo, get a 7 PRC.
I did not have a 7 before. I did not have a magnum or long action. My other rifles are all .308s and 1 5.56.
The 7 PRC suits my needs and now that stuff is more available, I feel more comfortable handloading for fun. At first, I thought of handloading based on shear availability.
The main benefit of the PRC is that it is designed from the ground up for long, heavy for calber bullets.
The 7RM is not. You can either buy a custom reamer or invest in a throating reamer.
FWIW, some barrel makers will custom throat the prefit or barrel nut barrel if you send them a dummy cartridge.
The 7 SAUM is an excellent cartridge, but if you lose your ammo on the way to your hunt of a lifetime, you're shit out of luck.
With the 7RM and 7PRC you can buy off the shelf ammo.
The 7RM is not. You can either buy a custom reamer or invest in a throating reamer.
FWIW, some barrel makers will custom throat the prefit or barrel nut barrel if you send them a dummy cartridge.
The 7 SAUM is an excellent cartridge, but if you lose your ammo on the way to your hunt of a lifetime, you're shit out of luck.
With the 7RM and 7PRC you can buy off the shelf ammo.
That a 18 inch barrel? That’s about how long I’m wanting. That or 20
it's technically a 20" proof, but it ended up finishing at about 18.5.
Just when I thought 7 PRC was the easy button, I find all this crap about clickers and the SAAMI reamer being too narrow in the base, and guys getting custom reamers and dies to account for expansion at the 0.200" datum line, and so now I'm thinking about that 7mm RM die with .200" extra freebore again....
www.longrangehunting.com
7mm PRC problem?
Manson has saami spec reamers now with a slightly larger spec at the 200 datum line. This will have no affect on accuracy. The case headspaces off the shoulder and the throat is the same as saami spec so no issues there. Do you have spec dimensions concerning this Manson reamer? Would...
that was old issues from the initial release and people jumping the gun on production - same exact thing happened in 300. Buy the SAC, micron or whidden dies and you will have no problems.Just when I thought 7 PRC was the easy button, I find all this crap about clickers and the SAAMI reamer being too narrow in the base, and guys getting custom reamers and dies to account for expansion at the 0.200" datum line, and so now I'm thinking about that 7mm RM die with .200" extra freebore again....
7mm PRC problem?
Manson has saami spec reamers now with a slightly larger spec at the 200 datum line. This will have no affect on accuracy. The case headspaces off the shoulder and the throat is the same as saami spec so no issues there. Do you have spec dimensions concerning this Manson reamer? Would...
That thread has no people with clicker issues just talking about how it occurred in the 300.
I have had 10x more trouble with sizing to the belt on the mag than the prc and had to have custom 7 and 300 win mag dies made.
Just when I thought 7 PRC was the easy button, I find all this crap about clickers and the SAAMI reamer being too narrow in the base, and guys getting custom reamers and dies to account for expansion at the 0.200" datum line, and so now I'm thinking about that 7mm RM die with .200" extra freebore again....
7mm PRC problem?
Manson has saami spec reamers now with a slightly larger spec at the 200 datum line. This will have no affect on accuracy. The case headspaces off the shoulder and the throat is the same as saami spec so no issues there. Do you have spec dimensions concerning this Manson reamer? Would...
The larger reamers are still inside SAAMI spec. The SAAMI minimum spec tends to be a little too tight for most brass.
Most every reamer manufacturer uses either SAAMI max base or just under SAAMI max, for all PRC cartridges. The 300 prc was basically the only one with issues. Once guys like Wheeler started specing reamers for the larger SAAMI base for 300prc, most manufacturers got on board and started making that size the default reamer for all PRC cartridges going forward.
As far as dies, as long as you're using the larger reamer, most every die will work fine. The reason for custom dies was to size the base smaller when a SAAMI min spec reamer was used.
Worst case if you somehow end up with a SAAMI min spec chamber, you can send it to us and we'll just twist a larger base reamer in your chamber by hand. It only cuts the base larger and can be done by hand in less than 5 minutes. No charge, just cover shipping. As its virtually no work involved taking a min SAAMI base to a max SAAMI base.
You forgot the most important thing. 280 has shitty component selection. Nosler brass is overpriced garbage.
No, you’re not right. I’ve had two long throated 22” saum barrels. Both have done low 2800s with 175/180s with h1000 without being significantly compressed. If loading at 2.9” maybe they would be compressed but I’m using a tikka and loading closer to 3.1” coal.
.280 is super easy to make brass for using any other '06 case, just neck down some Starline 30-06 brass and fireform into .280 AI. Problem solved.
Available brass only. The only available I could find is a box of 500?? Haven’t seen Peterson 280 in years.
Nor is it as good as adg. And last time I checked there’s no speculation about lapua doing 280 or 7 mag.
in regards to the belt discussion, my belted mag experience is limited but it has been an issue.
300 WM, Norma brass, Redding type s FL bushing sizing die set to only size enough to reliably chamber without resistance. By the 3rd sizing, there was enough brass material pushed up in front of the belt that it would no longer chamber reliably. A Willis die before the FL sizing likely would have prevented the issue but that’s an unwanted extra step.
Not saying belts are always an issue but between having them and the amount of shoulder expansion on first firing of brass with belted mags, I see zero reason to choose a belted mag over a PRC or Nosler case where those things don’t exist if starting from scratch. That said, I doubt “efficiency” is a factor in potential performance differences between RM and PRC if throated similarly.
300 WM, Norma brass, Redding type s FL bushing sizing die set to only size enough to reliably chamber without resistance. By the 3rd sizing, there was enough brass material pushed up in front of the belt that it would no longer chamber reliably. A Willis die before the FL sizing likely would have prevented the issue but that’s an unwanted extra step.
Not saying belts are always an issue but between having them and the amount of shoulder expansion on first firing of brass with belted mags, I see zero reason to choose a belted mag over a PRC or Nosler case where those things don’t exist if starting from scratch. That said, I doubt “efficiency” is a factor in potential performance differences between RM and PRC if throated similarly.
In regards to 280 AI, if one has a standard bolt face long action already it’s a nice choice. Otherwise I’d prefer SAUM. Seems like lots of reamers are the standard SAAMI with a traditional throat with zero parallel freebore which probably works fine but if getting a custom barrel I’d rather have a modern throat design.
You guys convinced me to make the change from 7mmRM to 7PRC. My smith says his Manson reamer has a slightly wide base and no extraction or sizing issues
Got my proof 24” sendero 1:8.4 yesterday
Defiance AnTi-X in production (long action)
Going to go with MDT HNT26 or XLR folder, probably the former just because I like the looks of it better
Leupold VX5HD 3-15x44 that I have on hand
TBAC Magnus-S-RR can bc I’m going to need some recoil mitigation
Comments or thoughts welcome
Got my proof 24” sendero 1:8.4 yesterday
Defiance AnTi-X in production (long action)
Going to go with MDT HNT26 or XLR folder, probably the former just because I like the looks of it better
Leupold VX5HD 3-15x44 that I have on hand
TBAC Magnus-S-RR can bc I’m going to need some recoil mitigation
Comments or thoughts welcome
Last edited:
Comment: socks should be required for pictures
I'll be interested to hear from you how loud the suppressor is with the RR on the end of it. With a barrel/suppressor that long you may feel like you're carrying around a pole for vaulting over creeks, depending on how thick the trees/brush are where you hunt.
The stock is a folder so knock off 10” when it’s folded on the pack (https://www.snipershide.com/shootin...6-ounce-carbon-fiber-hunting-chassis.7062586/)
Will probably carry w/o the can too
It was between this and a 22” barrel. Firstly, there are no 22” in stock and I can’t afford a 6 month wait for this build. Second, you lose 30 fps per inch of barrel - not a big deal, but this cartridge is optimized around a 26” barrel and I’ll be using H1000 unless it doesn’t work, then H4831 - and they need length to burn and achieve good speed. Third, the weight savings of the CFB are proportionally less with a shorter barrel because the shank/muzzle stays the same as you go shorter - you just remove the CFB on the center. Last, as long as the rig does not stick above the top of the pack (https://exomtngear.com/products/k4-5000-pack-system?variant=44187691909427#specs) with the stock folded, the length of it is immaterial. The pack is about 3 feet high which which means I’m good with the suppressor removed. Of course it takes time to screw on the can, but it also takes time to takeoff the pack, remove the rifle, unfold the stock, remove any scope cover, build a shooting position, acquire the target, await Range information from your spotter, dial for the shot, etc..
TBAC publishes numbers for all the MAGNUS cans on their website; for this can, the shooters ear dB is just shy of 140 and the recoil reduction is 65% (300 Win Mag) compared to 8% with an Ultra7 (which I already have). If you go with an Ultra 5” K can you get ZERO recoil reduction and minimal sound reduction so I see no point in that. You could go with the Magnus-K-RR with a brake, but then you are in the mid 140s with decibels, get a little less recoil reduction, and only save 2.3 ounces and 1.5” - so you’re paying a lot of money for a can, but not receiving the main functionality of the can. Personally I need recoil reduction on a magnum so it’s either hearing pro and a brake and scaring the whole mountainside away with the first shot, or suppress it and take most of the beating from recoil. I think 140 dB is enough to not cause hearing damage/flinching for hunting and the recoil reduction is superb so it’s the best of both worlds. If I don’t have time to screw the can on, it just means one pound of dead weight in the pack, and I take the hit to my hearing for that shot. https://thunderbeastarms.com/img/Poster_2024_magnus.png
I’m really tempted by the Magnus-K-RR. Will have to see.
Everything is a compromise.
Will probably carry w/o the can too
It was between this and a 22” barrel. Firstly, there are no 22” in stock and I can’t afford a 6 month wait for this build. Second, you lose 30 fps per inch of barrel - not a big deal, but this cartridge is optimized around a 26” barrel and I’ll be using H1000 unless it doesn’t work, then H4831 - and they need length to burn and achieve good speed. Third, the weight savings of the CFB are proportionally less with a shorter barrel because the shank/muzzle stays the same as you go shorter - you just remove the CFB on the center. Last, as long as the rig does not stick above the top of the pack (https://exomtngear.com/products/k4-5000-pack-system?variant=44187691909427#specs) with the stock folded, the length of it is immaterial. The pack is about 3 feet high which which means I’m good with the suppressor removed. Of course it takes time to screw on the can, but it also takes time to takeoff the pack, remove the rifle, unfold the stock, remove any scope cover, build a shooting position, acquire the target, await Range information from your spotter, dial for the shot, etc..
TBAC publishes numbers for all the MAGNUS cans on their website; for this can, the shooters ear dB is just shy of 140 and the recoil reduction is 65% (300 Win Mag) compared to 8% with an Ultra7 (which I already have). If you go with an Ultra 5” K can you get ZERO recoil reduction and minimal sound reduction so I see no point in that. You could go with the Magnus-K-RR with a brake, but then you are in the mid 140s with decibels, get a little less recoil reduction, and only save 2.3 ounces and 1.5” - so you’re paying a lot of money for a can, but not receiving the main functionality of the can. Personally I need recoil reduction on a magnum so it’s either hearing pro and a brake and scaring the whole mountainside away with the first shot, or suppress it and take most of the beating from recoil. I think 140 dB is enough to not cause hearing damage/flinching for hunting and the recoil reduction is superb so it’s the best of both worlds. If I don’t have time to screw the can on, it just means one pound of dead weight in the pack, and I take the hit to my hearing for that shot. https://thunderbeastarms.com/img/Poster_2024_magnus.png
I’m really tempted by the Magnus-K-RR. Will have to see.
Everything is a compromise.
Last edited:
My Nosler .280 AI brass has been great, and other options than that, fire-forming brass is stupid simple. You can form brass from any .270 Win or .280 Rem cases you want.
Scope selection corrected above for a better experience... You're building a really nice rifle, you should put a really nice scope on it. Do the build justice. I run this scope on my main deer rifle and it's great. Amazing glass, and exceptional FOV.
The VX5 weighs 20 oz the Khales 32oz which pretty much excludes it. I'm really trying hard to keep the weight down. The only place I rejected lower weight in this build is the action because I didn't want a full titanium action for reasons of galling and barrel changes. And by "keeping the weight down" I think rationally you keep the weight to with in about 80% of the lowest you can go, not to go straight to the lightest option and then have to accept a lot of compromises for that last 20%. The Ti-X action weighs about 18 oz and the AnTi-X about 24, so like 33% heavier. Maybe I'm making a mistake there. But the Khales is like 60% heavier and I don't think I can accept that.
And, you'd be shocked how good the glass is in that VX5HD. I'm not the only one to identify that it is an incredible value for a lightweight $1000 scope.
And, you'd be shocked how good the glass is in that VX5HD. I'm not the only one to identify that it is an incredible value for a lightweight $1000 scope.
I can tell you this... I have a Magnus-S (non-RR model) .30 cal and it's phenomenal for its size. It's one of the best sounding and quietest 7" cans I own. Once it gets out of jail, it will be my dedicated hunting can.
And, to be fair, 7 PRC is more easily obtained. With Federal giving Hornady competition in usable and affordable rounds. And it was previously said that 7 RM was good for custom builds and 7 PRC was good for factory rifles shooting factory ammo well.
Well, that kind of smacks 7 RM. And, also, I see most people here with 7 PRC building custom or building up a premium rifle and developing loads, just as if it were 7 RM.
So, it's down to preference of bullet style and weight. 7 PRC pushes heavy for caliber, if grain weight is important to a guy.
7 RM obviously would have more parts and ammo available because it has been around so long.
So, I know a guy that hunts everything with a .30-06. Saves the rest of his money for deer property.
I didn't want to have to wait another 4+ months for a custom 7RM reamer with a long throat to shoot the 180s; that, and the possibility that Laupa will make 7PRC brass...Are the main reasons I decided to ditch the otherwise equivalent 7RM for PRC
7mm RemMag with a 168-175 expander doing 2900-3100mv will kill anything you need to as long as you actually know how to shoot.... and has been doing so for decades. Hell, 6.5x55 has been doing that since it's inception.
With a long action and Magnum bolt face it keeps the options open for many other cartridges with just a barrel swap. If you go Tikka, you can swap bolt stop and barrel if you wamt to switch between 7mm RemMag and 7 SAUM using the same action.
With a long action and Magnum bolt face it keeps the options open for many other cartridges with just a barrel swap. If you go Tikka, you can swap bolt stop and barrel if you wamt to switch between 7mm RemMag and 7 SAUM using the same action.
This is a shitty chamber (or reamer specs) issue, not a die or belt issue. If someone is using an ill-spec’d reamer or a shitty factory chamber that has much higher potential for being oversized or crooked, then you can encounter this issue. But it’s not an inherent belt issue.
Longest Hunting shot I have ever made with 7 RM ,was on this Mountain Goat Ram 642 Yd. off the side of slide around 9500-11K ft. and the New Zealand Tar around 534 meters across a sloped canyon shooting downward . Both including my Chamois while near freezing too death !.
If any of you want a Hunt challenge try either including a Chamois . You'll earn every minute hunting any of those species .
Smallest critter I ever shot with the 7RM was this Dik dik ,unfortunately I missed the eye . All animals with exception of the Moose were taken with 160 gr. Nosler Partition bullet ,Moose 175 gr. .
Background I'm Not wealthy , I was fortunate to have GOOD friends who were . Early 70's a friend Tom owned a station ,ranch the size of Kansas in Kenya ,among many other things including his own Jet's helicopters and such . Some of you might know his eventual business venture below ; Prior to that Tom owned PSA airlines and that's when and how I met him . We enjoyed a 47 year friendship along with many common interest .
I also used to do realistic fiberglass animal mounts of various sizes for many of our hunting buddies ,in my spare time . Having encountered Both species Wolverines as well as African Honey badger ,I'd Not want to engage either unnecessarily ,as ferocious is an understatement !.
If any of you want a Hunt challenge try either including a Chamois . You'll earn every minute hunting any of those species .
Smallest critter I ever shot with the 7RM was this Dik dik ,unfortunately I missed the eye . All animals with exception of the Moose were taken with 160 gr. Nosler Partition bullet ,Moose 175 gr. .
Background I'm Not wealthy , I was fortunate to have GOOD friends who were . Early 70's a friend Tom owned a station ,ranch the size of Kansas in Kenya ,among many other things including his own Jet's helicopters and such . Some of you might know his eventual business venture below ; Prior to that Tom owned PSA airlines and that's when and how I met him . We enjoyed a 47 year friendship along with many common interest .
I also used to do realistic fiberglass animal mounts of various sizes for many of our hunting buddies ,in my spare time . Having encountered Both species Wolverines as well as African Honey badger ,I'd Not want to engage either unnecessarily ,as ferocious is an understatement !.
Gulf States Toyota Distributors .
Attachments
There is a YouTube channel called Rogee Productions and they hunt game like this on public hunting land in New Zealand and just about all of their shots are the same as you described. The main shooter shoots a .300 WSM and seems to do well with it.
