Hunting rifle for Elk? Total noob.

[Jefe's Dope]

Possible first elk hunt. I know nothing about elk hunting, hunting generally, or choosing a hunting rifle.

I'm thinking light as possible. How light can you/do you want to go?

The Tikka Superlite in either 6.5 CM or .308. I prefer 6.5. Do I need to upgrade the stock? KRG Bravo or Manners carbon fiber?

What reticle for hunting? Can I just use one of my existing scopes?

Thanks for the help.

 

[DIBBS]

What type of country are you going to be hunting. Wide open spaces, or heavy timber. A good friend has an ultra light 300 WM, and it kicks the crap out of him. I'm no expert, have not put that many into the freezer. The 308 and 6.5 Creedmoor will put them down. However, they are big tough animals, the latter calibers you are going to have to be disciplined in my humble opinion in choosing your shots. If it were me, I would opt for a 30-06, 7mm Remington Magnum, 300 Winchester Magnum, or 338 Winchester Magnum. Just my humble opinions.

 

[CuTm]

Id go with a magnum 30cal or 7. Reliable scope made for the range required on this hunt. Elk are strong, heavy, and generally in the middle of nowhere , unless you have a damage control tag. Take all this into consideration. Do you have enough people to pack this out? And I mean before 4am the next day. (Been there done that) . If you do go with .308 or 6.5. Is this shot going to be within distance you can confidently hit vitals ? You mess that shot up and you’re just adding miles to the pack. I would go with a larger caliber because I know for a fact with a good bullet I anchored that animal.

 

[BigTex]

If you're going to be in the mountains, lighter is better.

Tikkas shoot really well in their factory stocks, most aftermarket stocks will add weight.

No need in paying the extra for the Super lite over the lite, there is literally no difference in weight, the flutes are not deep enough to make a difference.

140gr 6.5 in the boiler room is plenty for a bull elk. Does .300WM provide more wiggle room for sub par shots? Sure, but I killed my bull at 473yds this year with a 140gr Berger from a 6.5x284. High shoulder shot dropped him like he was struck by lightning. On the same trip, my buddy did the same thing at a touch over 350yds with a 130gr Berger from a .270win. 7 and 30 mags are not required.

I'd use an existing scope that you are used to. Shooting an elk is not different than shooting steel as far as reticles are concerned. If you are going to be hunting in tight spaces, I'd suggest a 3-4x bottom end. I do tend to prefer SFP for hunting.

 

[Jefe's Dope]

The hunt will be in Colorado. What section, I haven't a clue. Literally starting this process today. Weight is likely a huge concern.

 

[Rust]

It's been a long time since I could ridge run, but a .270 worked fine. Make the first shot the last shot. Keep in mind you'll be packing out 600-800 lbs. with a successful hunt.

 

[msstate56]

I carried a 12 lb 300 win mag for a week in the CO mountains last fall. Really wasn’t that bad. I do think I’ll eventually lighten it up with a Proof barrel. I’m also running a Mk5 3-18, so not the lightest scope out there. As far as calibers go, I think 6.5 Creed is the absolute minimum for elk. To me it’s about like using .223 Rem on whitetails. Can it be done? Sure. But it’s less than ideal. That’s why I went 300 win mag. After all the time, effort and money involved in an elk hunt- the last thing I want to worry about is having to get a “perfect” shot. There’s no guarantee that a bull is going to stand still broadside at 200 for you.

I killed mine running uphill. Shot hit base of the neck and exited just in front of off side shoulder. That was the only shot window possible. He took 2 wobbly steps and fell over. I was using 200 grain ELD-x. Sample size of 1 and whatnot, but after a week in the backcountry I’d rather have more than enough gun.

 

[JimLee]

Due to a shredded rotator cuff I can't shoot hard kicking rifles anymore. 6.5 will do the job if you do your part and make a good shot within a reasonable distance, I'm also looking at 7mm-08 recently. I recently traded off a very lightweight .308 because the recoil was too much for me and I couldn't put a muzzle brake on it. Sure I could go to the range a couple times a year and get 20 rounds through it before I started cussing after every shot, but I won't hunt with a rifle I can't shoot often enough to be proficient with. This guy shot this nice cow at 560 yards with a 6.5 https://www.snipershide.com/shooting/threads/late-season-cow-elk.6924122/

 

[plidenbrock]

What do you have available already as far as scopes & rifles?

Often times you can use what you got (as long as it's serviceable) and focus more on what you're doing than the equipment.

25-06, .270, 30-06, 6.5, 308, 280: they all bring home the moose and bear up here when properly applied. You don't need heavy calibers...often times what happens is people bring stuff they can't shoot thinking you gotta have a 20mm cannon with a Hubble scope and then either screw the shot or need a medevac for exhaustion. Natives up here still doing amazing things with a .22 in the right place!

As long as you can shoot what you got where you need to, it'll work. Tikka's a great choice; another possibility that I've heard good things about is a Ruger American Predator, in 6.5cm. Light, cheap, and accurate.

Make sure to study your quarry's behavior and anatomy well, too, so you know how to get where you need to go, so to speak.

 

[Codiekfx400]

I would recommend a 6.5 Creedmoor, 7mm - 08, or a 280 Remington for your application. Light recoil but still very deadly.

 

[fdkay]

there are two ways to achieve penetration, mass and sectional density.
the 6.5 and 7mm have sectional density in their favor.
Keep in mind the ammo you will be able to buy at the store in Colorado, in the event your ammo is lost, forgotten or whatever.
A good 30'06 or .270 will really perform well and will be available for local purchase (as well as the 7mm and 300 mag).
Will the 6.5 work? absolutely, elk have been taken with the .243 and 6.8 SPC. It has the added benefit of being easy to shoot well and is an extremely accurate cartridge.
as far as scopes go, most on this site use tactical scopes, but a decent quality variable of the 3-9 variety will do the job, as they have been for the last 40 years.
Zero for maximum point blank range (look it up)

 

[davsco]

i got a tikka t3x lite in 300 wsm for this fall's expected colo elk hunt. while i'm sure every animal on earth has been killed with a measly .22LR, if you're starting from scratch, i'd go bigger than 6.5 creed as elk are BIG animals.

 

[Jefe's Dope]

I have several scopes but was wanting to use my Athlon Ares BTR 2.5-15 due to it's weight.

I'd like to stay w/ 6.5 as I already have dies, etc for loading. I very much like how 6.5 shoots and the ballistics of the bullet. But I'll certainly entertain and research some of those other calibers.

Frankly, I doubt I'll even see an elk, let alone harvest one. I'm VERY green and looking for some field experience. There's only one way to learn. Go out and fail. Fail some more. And eventually I may learn something and become successful.

Thank you for all the input.

 

[HayStax]

I use a SAKO Finnlight in 300WSM. Weighs under 8lbs with scope & ammo.

In Colorado be ready for a shot from 30yds to 800yds.

Spotting scope might be more important than rifle.

 

[fdkay]

I use a SAKO Finnlight in 300WSM. Weighs under 8lbs with scope & ammo.

In Colorado be ready for a shot from 30yds to 800yds.

Spotting scope might be more important than rifle.

Since he has admitted to being a total noob, I would think he should prepare for shots no longer than 250-300 yards. (at the very max).
This is actual field shooting, something that many have little experience in.

 

[SkyScrapin]

Long time elk hunter here. I have hunted with heavy 18lb rifles, but now I'm down to 10lbs or so. Rifle weight never really bothered me... find the right pack, and it won't bother you either.

Caliber is mostly secondary to weight. The 6.5 is sufficient.

My best advise for someone getting into elk hunting:
-Any legal caliber will work. Elk are resilient, but so are most game animals. Be mindful of your shot, because tracking animals in the mountains absolutely sucks.
-Take care of your feet with high quality shoes
-Bring fresh socks for each day
-Buy high quality clothing. I prefer FirstLite layers.
-Pick-up a framed Kifaru pack and gun bearer. Your back will thank you.
-Don't sacrifice food. I prefer Mountain House meals when backpack hunting
-If you're backpacking, get a tarp and a light sleeping bag. Trade-off is you might be wet and/or cold.. suck it up.
-GPS and/or OnX maps. I keep my iPhone w/ OnX and a spare Garmin GPS for when I'm wayyyy off the beaten path. InReach for 'oh shit' moments and general communication.
-Don't forget your kill kit or ammo at the truck.

If you're in the Colorado high country, which is usually where the elk are, you will be recon'd regardless of rifle weight and your physical shape. Prepare to work your ass off every day on varying terrain and conditions.

If you're hunting the San Juan, shoot me a PM. I can point you to a few honey holes.

 

[mcfred]

There's a lot of decent sized animals mentioned here, including several elk, being shot with .224 diameter bullets. Of course, bullet construction and shot placement are paramount. If it can be done with .224" then bigger will only be better assuming apples-to-apples comparison. Personally, I would use .284" or larger even though .22 cal centerfire for elk is legal in my state, but I'm sure you can get it done with 6.5 Seymore.

 

[chevy_man]

6.5 is perfectly fine.
There's a 390" bull hanging on the wall that fell to a .25 120grn partition. Every elk I've packed out in the last 3 years was killed with a 6.5 Creed or 6.5x55.

Good bullet placement with a well constructed bullet is key.

I just put a hole in the lungs. They always go down quick. It also keeps you off the shoulder a bit.

I watched a guy splash a match bullet off a shoulder with his 300 RUM. More gun doesn't mean anything. Correct bullet and placement is all you need.

 

[rope]

Go over to the hunting section there lots of info. Plenty of 6.5’s killing all sorts of big animals. I use a 6.5 SAUM and 260 for most of my hunting killed lots of moose, caribou, bears, wolves, many smaller critters too.

 

[Bender]

6.5 is great. Just use a good hunting bullet.

You need more than a tarp and a sleeping bag. “Just suck it up” attitude of being wet and cold will get you in trouble fast on an overnighter.

 

[Primus]

Elk are large, strong unpredictable animals who habitate in rough and hard to transverse country. Like the guy above said go with a 7 or 30 Cal mag at a minimum. It gives you enough margin of error that you wont need a perfect shot. You are going to spend a ton of blood, sweat and money to get that opportunity so take the best tool for the job. A tikka in 300wsm would be a good light cheap option.

Elk hunting is hard enough, don't make it harder by having to track a wounded animal in rough country.

 

[DangerRanger]

IMO
30 cal bullet with your intended/comfortable shot distance to determine powder capacity.

308/3006/300win


You don’t need to upgrade the stock to kill elk.

6.5 and 7s kill too, so do 33s. No reason to make it harder that it needs to be. If you really prefer 6.5 creed go for it. I would take the 308 every time for large game.

 

[HayStax]

Since he has admitted to being a total noob, I would think he should prepare for shots no longer than 250-300 yards. (at the very max).
This is actual field shooting, something that many have little experience in.

Yeah I’ve heard lots of guys say once the target grows hair it’s harder to hit. But shooting is shooting, and in my experience with elk making the shot is usually the easiest part.

We need more info from OP in order to offer any more advice

 

[supercorndogs]

Yeah I’ve heard lots of guys say once the target grows hair it’s harder to hit. But shooting is shooting, and in my experience with elk making the shot is usually the easiest part.

We need more info from OP in order to offer any more advice

Its not just the target growing fur. I think he is referring to practicing field positions. People practice all day on their belly, then can't hit dick resting against a tree standing or where ever you end up having to take your shot from. I haven't shot near as many animals from prone as from not prone.

 

[Jefe's Dope]

We need more info from OP in order to offer any more advice

How can I help?

 

[supercorndogs]

I thought you nailed it down well.

6.5 creed is fine
Any scope you want will do. Any reticle will do. Hope you bag one, they are very tasty.

 

[HayStax]

How can I help?

What rifle are you currently using? Depending on tactics and environment, you may not need to worry as much about weight. The rifle could be strapped to a pack 90% of the time vs jump shooting in timber. I’ve wished for a 30-30 at times when tracking bulls through the trees.

Spending time scouting your unit, planning with OnX or Gaia apps, spotting and scoring, public lands vs private, early or late season....I think the rifle is the least of your concern if you are truly just starting out

 

[MachoKing]

As a general rule, whatever chambering you choose, 1800fps and 1200ft/lbs are your cutoffs for a distance you can reliably kill an elk. For some reason, even though a 6.5 or a 25 carries as much energy to the target as say a 30/06 people discount them since their diameters are smaller.

To achieve the same sectional density in a 30 caliber you're talking a 200gr or larger bullet to match a 143 ELD-X and a heck of a lot more recoil. I shoot a 7 mag, because it's what I have, but I wouldn't hesitate to take a critter with any weapon as long as it's within that kill window I described.

 

[DangerRanger]

A lot of people discount them due to the almost 30% less surface area of the projectile before expansion. Which should be even greater difference at full expansion diameter. Some people just prefer to poke a bigger hole.

 

[SkyScrapin]

You need more than a tarp and a sleeping bag. “Just suck it up” attitude of being wet and cold will get you in trouble fast on an overnighter.

Nah, learn how to use your gear and you'll be fine. New hunters need to realize that backpack hunting is a different beast, and you're packing in only what you can carry on your back. You're not going back to the truck every night to sleep in a warm cot. Don't want to make the sacrifice, stay in camp.

 

[supercorndogs]

Surface area? Are we trying to start a farm on bullets now?

By golly Elk die from a .308 diameter hole, but a .264 diameter hole, well they barely notice. One gushes blood like old faithful and the other reseals almost instantly. Its called Fudd Science, look it up.

"Elk rifle" is a term that always makes me laugh. Made up by some Fudd, who probably coined the term before he ever hunted one.

 

[DangerRanger]

By golly I never said they wouldn’t.

 

[Chili47]

Another vote for 6.5 creed. I have yet to find someplace in Colorado that doesn't stock it year round. Downed my last 4 elk with 6.5 260 on one and creed on the other 3 one of those being a bull.

 

[brianf]

all good info, personally go with a 30 mag wm/wsm of some sort

perfect elk medicine and you can use it on other hunts for larger animals as well

but in reality all modern day caliber/bullets will kill a animal

hell the indians did it with shitty bows and setters with a crappy musket


MOST important piece of kit to carry is a IFAK (first aid kit) in arms length, not on or in a pack that you left behind at camp

with a few at least 2 tourniquets

something goes wrong and a round goes through a arm and then the leg, one doesnt do the job

they are really easy to use, make as tight as possible

but learn how to use them dont think that youll figure it out when the time comes

 

[Jefe's Dope]

MOST important piece of kit to carry is a IFAK (first aid kit) in arms length, not on or in a pack that you left behind at camp

with a few at least 2 tourniquets

something goes wrong and a round goes through a arm and then the leg, one doesnt do the job

they are really easy to use, make as tight as possible

but learn how to use them dont think that youll figure it out when the time comes

I've begun to build a kit, online, only to get overwhelmed as to what I need and if the product I'm considering is good or garbage. Any suggestions for existing kits or a list of items you'd suggest and manufacturers/brands preferred.

Thanks.

 

[brianf]

by no means the authority but:

1 Israeli Bandage: these are a little large/touch bigger than your fist.

gauze/pressure possible tourniquet use.
comes in a sealed waterproof package.
very large good for all parts of body (upper torso/head/limbs) and wounds big or small (of course your not going to use it on a paper cut). big slice of skin falls off from a rock fall or a machete takes a big chunk out while going through brush or cutting fire wood.

1-2 COMBAT APPLICATION TOURNIQUET (CAT): size of a cell phone with a case.

almost every military uses these now. really small and easy to pack.
common sense use...full on disaster.
the last 10-15 years our medics have seen more than enough woulds around the world.
the biggest cause of death is bleeding out.
"Life Before Limb", loose your arm from cutting off circulation or bleed out and die...ill take life.

those pieces of kit stay on you all the time no matter what, fanny pack or pouch.
the pouch can also be your cell phone case or GPS case if you dont carry it around your neck.
stuff one in you stock pack or rubber band it to the stock of the rifle.

the bandaids etc can be left behind at my tent but not this stuff

 

[brianf]

I've begun to build a kit, online, only to get overwhelmed as to what I need and if the product I'm considering is good or garbage. Any suggestions for existing kits or a list of items you'd suggest and manufacturers/brands preferred.

Thanks.

by no means the authority but:

1 Israeli Bandage $10 +/-: these are a little large/touch bigger than your fist.

gauze/pressure possible tourniquet use.
comes in a sealed waterproof package.
very large good for all parts of body (upper torso/head/limbs) and wounds big or small (of course your not going to use it on a paper cut). big slice of skin falls off from a rock fall or a machete takes a big chunk out while going through brush or cutting fire wood.
can be used as a make shift splint...better than nothing

1 or 2 COMBAT APPLICATION TOURNIQUET (CAT) $30 +/- : size of a cell phone with a case.

almost every military uses these now. really small and easy to pack.
common sense use...full on disaster.
the last 10-15 years our medics have seen more than enough woulds around the world.
the biggest cause of death is bleeding out.
"Life Before Limb", loose your arm from cutting off circulation or bleed out and die...ill take life.

you can go to almost any website that sells EMT supplies:

the top 2 sell kits, useful not alot of extra crap

https://www.rescue-essentials.com/
http://darkangelmedical.com/

this is one of many EMT supply houses.
https://www.buyemp.com/category/ems

look at the first 2 sites see what the prices are and then hit a EMT store you might get a cheaper price, if not your good to go



those pieces of kit stay on you all the time no matter what, fanny pack or pouch.
the pouch can also be your cell phone case or GPS case if you dont carry it around your neck.
stuff one in your stock pack or rubber band it to the stock of the rifle.

the band aids etc can be left behind at my tent but not this stuff

pre made kits are nice but (they can get expensive and large if you start thinking about it too much) and if you dont want to carry around saline drops for your eyes etc, your spending money.

if i am packing light i just carry what id need to get me back to a better situation.
if i have the kids with me of course the wife has me carry enough shit to treat a hospital in Watts LA, complete with sponge bob band aids.

i even have one in each cars glove box, bad car accident etc. a few bucks that never expires, well worth it

a lot of hospitals or fire houses give classes every 2-3 months or so.

usually 20-30$ sometimes free just call and ask.

few hours on a saturday will actually save your life, or some one you know.

if you keep it small and light you will carry it all the time, get too crazy and youll leave it behind

forgot to add, i have one in my range bag as well...why not

 

[Krazy_jim]

Last first aid course I took, they did not teach a tourniquet. In canada at least they teach to keep pressure on.

I was not overly impressed with the course, so I have not kept the certification up to date.

 

[brianf]

that sucks..
easy way to teach yourself
put one on real tight and find the main atrery down the same limb
if you feel a pulse its not tight enough

 

[Upstate43]

As a general rule, whatever chambering you choose, 1800fps and 1200ft/lbs are your cutoffs for a distance you can reliably kill an elk. For some reason, even though a 6.5 or a 25 carries as much energy to the target as say a 30/06 people discount them since their diameters are smaller.

Well, let’s clear something up here: 6.5 Creedmoor DOES NOT carry the same amount of energy to the target as .30-06 (at least when discussing realistic hunting distances using common loads). And it certainly doesn’t carry the same amount of momentum.


For the general topic:

What is possible and what is ideal are two different aspects to this conversation. I’m not necessarily saying that 6.5 CM isn’t ideal for elk, but certainly there are other calibers which are much better suited for those types of animals. There is a sliding spectrum of sorts for hunting calibers: on one end you have the cartridges with very low recoil and limited lethality (which I acknowledge is an over-simplification); and on the other end you have heavier recoil but with greater lethality. You have to pick the right cartridge based on type of hunting, location and your individual skill level/comfort.

When a modern center-fire bullet hits a large-bodied animal in the right spot, at the right distance, it can work…dead is dead; the animal doesn’t care about which cartridge was used. But for the less than ideal shooting situations (bad angles, vegetation, bad hits) which do occur from time to time, the more powerful cartridges can give you a bit more leeway, so to speak. So, in that regard, cartridge-selection is not purely some academic, internet-based debate…it has real-world implications.

 

[Jefe's Dope]

Well, let’s clear something up here: 6.5 Creedmoor DOES NOT carry the same amount of energy to the target as .30-06 (at least when discussing realistic hunting distances using common loads). And it certainly doesn’t carry the same amount of momentum.


For the general topic:

What is possible and what is ideal are two different aspects to this conversation. I’m not necessarily saying that 6.5 CM isn’t ideal for elk, but certainly there are other calibers which are much better suited for those types of animals. There is a sliding spectrum of sorts for hunting calibers: on one end you have the cartridges with very low recoil and limited lethality (which I acknowledge is an over-simplification); and on the other end you have heavier recoil but with greater lethality. You have to pick the right cartridge based on type of hunting, location and your individual skill level/comfort.

When a modern center-fire bullet hits a large-bodied animal in the right spot, at the right distance, it can work…dead is dead; the animal doesn’t care about which cartridge was used. But for the less than ideal shooting situations (bad angles, vegetation, bad hits) which do occur from time to time, the more powerful cartridges can give you a bit more leeway, so to speak. So, in that regard, cartridge-selection is not purely some academic, internet-based debate…it has real-world implications.

Upstate NY?

 

[isofahunter]

1: Shoot bullet made for killing animals (Partition, A Frame, TLR, Accubond)
2: Get in the best shape possible
3: Practice field shooting there are no benches in the mountains and no level ground.

30-06 is my min with a 300wm or 7mm RUM preferred, but a good bullet with proper placement is the key, it is your job to be up to the task when opportunity arrives regardless where and when that is.

 

[spife7980]

Only one cartridge is "Good for all North American Game", the venerable 30-06.

Youll never be over or under gunned.

Plenty of people will say that the 6.5 creed is adequate and plenty will say its not.
No one will tell you the 30-06 wont do its job.

 

[Zeroit]

If you get the opportunity to read Bryan Litz' book APPLIED BALLISTICS FOR LONG- RANGE SHOOTING (nice reference manual) for anyone involved in longer range shooting. There is a section on lethality (charts) covers a number of common bullets in various calibers at different ranges and three weights of game 150lb. 300 and 600. From 0 to 1200 yards. My take is bullet choice is almost as important as caliber as some of others have stated and shot placement. Good read covers virtually everything that affects shooting wind weather altitude etc. From a scientific perspective that normal people can understand. I'm not going to get in pissing contest over calibers I'll leave that to others. I hope your hunt goes well!

 

[brianf]

Jeffdope my thoughts as well.
I think we are the only state that used that term

 

[Upstate43]

Upstate NY?

Currently.

 

[Upstate43]

If you get the opportunity to read Bryan Litz' book APPLIED BALLISTICS FOR LONG- RANGE SHOOTING (nice reference manual) for anyone involved in longer range shooting. There is a section on lethality (charts) covers a number of common bullets in various calibers at different ranges and three weights of game 150lb. 300 and 600. From 0 to 1200 yards. My take is bullet choice is almost as important as caliber as some of others have stated and shot placement. Good read covers virtually everything that affects shooting wind weather altitude etc. From a scientific perspective that normal people can understand. I'm not going to get in pissing contest over calibers I'll leave that to others. I hope your hunt goes well!

Bryan's book is a good read, though quite dense with information.

His section on hunting lethality is basically using Matuna's optimal game weight formula, which certainly isn't a hard rule but it does have some validity behind it.

The fellow who runs Terminal Ballistics (Terminal Ballistics) also has some good articles, and books, on this topic which cover a variety of cartridges. It's been a while since I last read his analysis of 6.5cm, but I believe he deemed it adequate for large-bodied animals if hunting within certain distances.

 

[northshorelumber]

You will enjoy a Colorado high country hunt much more if you take conditioning seriously. If you are backpacking or even horsepacking as opposed to a drive-in hunt preparation, conditioning, and equipment are critical for an enjoyable and successful hunt. As a noob I would suggest going with an experienced hunter or guide.

 

[WeiserBucks]

I recommend bringing a rifle that you shoot well , 6.5 absolute minimum. I also recommend not using a guide/outfitter.

You didn't need a guide to assist you in losing your virginity did you ?

 

[WB300]

A member from the original Hide (well respected hunter, can't remember his name), believed that hunters choose their gear in the wrong order. When you know the game, choose the bullet first (caliber, weight, construction...etc), then the cartridge to deliver that bullet at the distance and velocity range you want. THEN choose the weapon (weight, function, accessories...etc) and optic (size, weight, reticle...erc) to achieve it all.

Be open to small tweeks to the setup as not every bullet/cartridge/rifle/scope combo will produce desired results.

This process has served me well after losing some game to bad combos. Of course, shot placement trumps all, but this assumes you can deliver the bullet to the zone/area you want.

I hunt with Amax, SMK, B-tips, A-bonds, and TTSX. Which one depends on the above logic.

This is just giving you another way of looking at things and not everyone will agree with me. Hopefully it helps answer some questions and aides in your decision.

Please update this thread when you decide. And post pics. Gun porn is always good.

Will

PS... I don't normally give advice or opinions on topics like this, especially when it comes to hunting game, but your contributions to the Motivational Pic thread are my favorite. I'd buy you a case of your favorite beverage if you were close. @Jefe's Dope rocks!