Suppressors Hunting with a suppresser

[Jim Buck]

Re: Hunting with a suppresser

My main hunting rifle is a .308, due to the size of projectile needed and the velocity reduction I am not going to use it with subsonic loads. However if you do want to go silent, consider a caliber made to shoot subsonic. A 300 blackout, 300 whisper, also known as a 300-221. These will get very quiet, but also limited on range.

 

[vdub]

Re: Hunting with a suppresser

Legal to use suppressors for hunting in Oklahoma on private land in 21 days!!!!

Cannot wait to try and zap a few yotes with a suppressed rifle.

 

[Jim Buck]

Re: Hunting with a suppresser

Texas is legal!!

 

[coldboremiracle]

Re: Hunting with a suppresser

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: dirtyname</div><div class="ubbcode-body">It's funny how butt hurt ya'll get. This is a forum like any other online forum. Ever heard of stirring the pot? - I am laughing out loud. </div></div>There is a difference between stirring the pot, and shitting in it. Stirring the pot would suggest that you were offering alternate viewpoints to continue the discussion, not make drivebye shit posts you yourself dont even believe, and then snicker about it to yourself. As I said earlier, if you really believe what you've posted previously in this thread, then defend it. If not, then keep your insincear pot shitting joke post's to yourself so you can laugh out loud.

Several people have made statements contradicting yours and others statements that we ought not use suppressors to gain advantage over game, how do you respond to that?

 

[dirtyname]

Re: Hunting with a suppresser

CB Miracle,

My post was not a drive by shitting. My post holds the same weight as your post and any other members post because they are all subjective opinions. I laugh because of the hostility that goes on here. My buddies would tell you I am a violent person but my profession requires a level of professionalism you will likely never reach.

If I take the time out of my busy day to post on this forum then it is something that I believe and not a joke. I don't have to defend or explain myself to you, Mr. Miracle. My opinion is just that an opinion and I would be ignorant to think everyone felt the same way I do.

That being said, I have used suppressors for a long time. Fortunately, I am now able to own my own can as a civilian and more recently it has been made legal to hunt with suppressors in my state. As we all know, suppressors are beneficial in many different ways but their primary purpose is to allow for a level of accuracy a person is incapable of shooting un-suppressed. In regards to their use while hunting game, I have read they have been made legal in many states for hearing protection purposes. I believe this to be one small benefit of suppressors that was used to help legalize their use. The OP states he wants a quiet shot for hunting big game but has a concern with the knockdown power of subsonic. Is this his primary reason for hunting with a can? To use a less adequate round just to be quiet? The question should be, what is your purpose of using a can? By scouting, stalking and practicing proper shooting techniques a good hunter won't need a second shot. If you miss with a can you need more range time. So, in my humble opinion the appropriate use of a can for hunting is not to quiet the report but to improve accuracy and make firing a high powered rifle more enjoyable.

I hope this follow up pleases you, Mr. Miracle.

 

[coldboremiracle]

Re: Hunting with a suppresser

You still didn't answer the question. Why do you think hunting with a suppressor, for the specific purpose of doing so quietly, is wrong?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: dirtyname</div><div class="ubbcode-body">this is the type of shit that keeps some states from allowing the use of suppressors.

There is no such thing as silent hunting and discussing the use of suppressors to gain an advantage over game is not appropriate. </div></div>

This is the statement myself and others take issue with. First the idea that using technology to gain advantage over game is inappropriate, and second, the implied guilt associated with your statement about suppressors being allowed.

As mentioned by others several times in this thread, using a gun period is an advantage, a scope is another, a broadhead, a knife, ect. ect. Why all of a sudden is a suppressor un appropriate? I doubt you only take one cartridge into the forest when you hunt, or do you?

I understand and agree that suppressors can make a rifle more accurate, but take issue with your statement that their primary function is accuracy. This is the first time I've ever heard somemone say that their primary purpose is to make a gun more accurate. Silencer's as they are often called, and inaccurately so, must have been labeled such because of their obvious muffling capabilities. There are plenty of other options to make a rifle shoot well, I cant imagine suppressors were designed and built for the primary purpose of accuracy, the word suppress means: cover, hush,censor, silence; repress, smother, squash. If they were made for accuracy, why arent they called accurizer's?


BTW, since you know nothing of me or my professional life, dont pretend to know what level of professionalism me or anyone else is capable of. It detracts from whatever opinion or point you are trying to convey, and comes across as unprofessional.

Forgive my misunderstanding of your comments about stirring the pot and LOL, I mistakenly took that to mean that your original post was insincear. I see now that it is, which is why I had initially asked you to defend or explain what exactly you meant. Something we are still waiting to hear........

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: dirtyname</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> I hope this follow up pleases you, Mr. Miracle. </div></div>
Please, call me Cold.

 

[Conqueror]

Re: Hunting with a suppresser

The primary purpose of silencers was always to silence, that is why Hiram Maxim invented them (he also invented the car muffler using he same design principles, and those certainly don't make your driving more precise). All his marketing focused on the sound suppression, not the accuracy gains.

 

[dirtyname]

Re: Hunting with a suppresser

Look Miracle Boy,

I am hunter. I hunt big game, small game and waterfowl. I hunt with a bow, modern high power, black powder and shotgun. I have my FFL and SOT (class 3) licenses. I build and sell custom rifles and suppressors. I will only shoot a high powered rifle suppressed unless the law states otherwise. Now that my state has allowed the use of a can while hunting I will likely never fire a high powered rifle without one. My comment about shooting game with a suppressor was not to say the use of the can its self is not appropriate. I was suggesting the mere fact of discussing its use for the purpose of completely silencing the report and sonic signature for hunting purposes is not appropriate. I understand a supersonic cartridge in a suppressed weapon tends to defeat the whole concept of noise attenuation as there will still be the distinctive trans-sonic "crack" but we're not firing MP5s on the bridge of a ship, we're shooting animals outside. Do Snipers use subsonic rounds in their 300winmag's or 308's? I can assure you they do not. And stealth is much more important to them then all of us running around wearing neon orange. There are laws governing the appropriate caliber when hunting big game. It may be legal to use subsonic rounds of the adequate caliber but is it appropriate to reduce the stopping power of a bullet just to reduce the trans-sonic crack? I don't believe it is appropriate or ethical. I believe in killing an animal with a around you know will not leave the animal bleeding out for 2 miles. Frankly, I don't want to drag it back from where ever it ends up collapsing. With a properly placed subsonic shot this is possible but why take the chance just to hide the sound of my 1 or 2 shots before the animal is dead? If the other deer hear the supersonic signature of my bullet before it kills their friend I hope they are not offended.

 

[dirtyname]

Re: Hunting with a suppresser

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Conqueror</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The primary purpose of silencers was always to silence, that is why Hiram Maxim invented them (he also invented the car muffler using he same design principles, and those certainly don't make your driving more precise). All his marketing focused on the sound suppression, not the accuracy gains. </div></div>

I agree with you. Mufflers and suppressors were both originally invented to suppress sound. Nowadays they do a lot more than that. My personal primary reason for using a suppressor is to shoot consistent accuracy round after round with out killing my shoulder.

 

[coldboremiracle]

Re: Hunting with a suppresser

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: dirtyname</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Look Miracle Boy </div></div> Now you have me laughing out loud, no need for the condescending tone.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: dirtyname</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
I am hunter. I hunt big game, small game and waterfowl. I hunt with a bow, modern high power, black powder and shotgun. I have my FFL and SOT (class 3) licenses. I build and sell custom rifles and suppressors. I will only shoot a high powered rifle suppressed unless the law states otherwise. Now that my state has allowed the use of a can while hunting I will likely never fire a high powered rifle without one. </div></div> Well good, so your just like the rest of us. I feel the same way, I never shoot unsuppressed either, for the same reasons you do. I dont however see a problem with the quest for an ultra quiet rifle, or the discussion of it.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: dirtyname</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
My comment about shooting game with a suppressor was not to say the use of the can its self is not appropriate. I was suggesting the mere fact of discussing its use for the purpose of completely silencing the report and sonic signature for hunting purposes is not appropriate. </div></div> That makes more sense, but I still am curious why you think discussing silent hunting is inappropriate. No snipers dont do it, but if a guy wants to shoot an animal legally on his property without the noise, why is that inappropriate? And what part of that discussion makes states want to ban suppressor use?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: dirtyname</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
With a properly placed subsonic shot this is possible but why take the chance just to hide the sound of my 1 or 2 shots before the animal is dead? If the other deer hear the supersonic signature of my bullet before it kills their friend I hope they are not offended.
</div></div>
It is certainly possible that people are talking about animals other than deer, where a SS cartridge will easily put down the animal. And multiple animals are being pursued, where a silent'ish rifle would be ideal.

 

[insectguy]

Re: Hunting with a suppresser

Not to belabor a point, but I'f the primary purpose of a silencer is to make a rifle more accurate, then why are the bench rest shooters not using them? Or the rail gun shooters? After all, they are the ones in pursuit of the ultra-tiny groups, ad-nauseum.

 

[coldboremiracle]

Re: Hunting with a suppresser

He amended his thoughts, the primary purpose of a suppressor isn't to enhance accurracy. That is <span style="font-weight: bold"> HIS </span> main purpose for using a can. Which of course is fine.

 

[aqualung]

Re: Hunting with a suppresser

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Chanonry</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: skinney</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Chanonry</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

How do you guys use SS to ensure kills? </div></div>
If your round is capable of delivering enough energy to kill, YES its practical... how do I do it? with a 147grain XTP going 900fps on a hard charger, center mass hit, complete and utter devastation. </div></div>

I was using the <span style="color: #FF0000">Lapua loaded fmj. 200gr head</span>. Pokes holes - no devastation at all. Hence my question ! </div></div>

There's your problem right there ^^ Use something like the 208gn A-max, and I believe that you'll get reasonable expansion, and therefore a more rapid stop. FMJ is not the way to go!

N

 

[bohem]

Re: Hunting with a suppresser

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">There's your problem right there ^^ Use something like the 208gn A-max, and I believe that you'll get reasonable expansion, and therefore a more rapid stop. FMJ is not the way to go!

N</div></div>

I've tried, it just pokes through and they occasionally tumble but devastation is rarely present and certainly not predictable.

SS needs a CNS hit to be effective with conventional bullets. Without that you need something like a 30c pistol bullet in a 308 that's designed to expand at 1000fps impact speeds.

Or, make your own soft cast lead with a crimp-on gas check and cut an aggressive HP with an expansion driver like an airsoft BB in the nose.

Or, go to a big bore rifle chambered in a pistol cartridge like the 44mag Rugers where you can put a 300XTP into the thing and shoot a subsonic thumper.

Or, the most exotic form would be to buy something like Lehigh Defense's SS bullets. Upon impact that work like broadheads do and they cut big wound channels.

Unless you're close enough to guarantee a headshot or brainstem shot, the whole "headshots only" can get you into sticky situations because many of the subsonic rounds have poor "MO Deer head" repeatability past 100yd and the first round drop can be a problem with jacketed bullets too.

Now, if you're shooting something small like rabbits, foxes, etc it's a different ballgame but for deer, hogs, and bigger animals the double lung shot with a 208 Amax that impacts at 950fps is not as effective. My personal feeling is that it would be irresponsible to shoot the animal in that way when there are so many other methods or impact locations that would be better suited to a quick kill.

 

[coldboremiracle]

Re: Hunting with a suppresser

Agree with bohem, lot of knowledge behind those words. I have had very good accuracy with 210 vlds, good enough for minute of deer head at 150 yds, but the wound channels were unsatisfactory. I would go with bohem's suggestion of a soft lead hollow point if you intend on SS body shots on deer. For varmints, the match bullets will work ok.

 

[methos12]

Re: Hunting with a suppresser

I've been working up a load for SS with my .308 just for fun. I started out doing stability tests with 168, 175, and 190 SMKs (it's what I had laying around) and found the 175gr was the only one that stabilized. Knowing that, what would be a good soft-point round, like a GameKing, that should stabilize like the 175gr SMK? Is it weight or length that's making the biggest difference? BTW I've got the 175s dialed in sub-MOA at 100 yards.

Reason I ask is because I'd like my SS loads to be able to be used at the range (for fun) but also for nuisance removal (bobcats, coyotes, rabbits, p-dogs). Though my nearest neighbors are over a quarter mile away (and in the opposite direction as my back yard) I usually see those things at dawn when I'm getting in my first cup of coffee. I don't want to wake the guy up with gunfire on a Saturday morning. I'm sure the sound of a regular load at that range with the suppressor isn't going to travel much but I like the idea of the subsonic load not being able to carry very far.

 

[coldboremiracle]

Re: Hunting with a suppresser

Thats odd, why would the 175 stabilize and the 168 not?

 

[dirtyname]

Re: Hunting with a suppresser

Cold, your a good dude. This has been fun. Thanks for dragging me into this discussion. I'll be thinking about this and will have more tomorrow.

 

[dirtyname]

Re: Hunting with a suppresser

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: methos</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I've been working up a load for SS with my .308 just for fun. I started out doing stability tests with 168, 175, and 190 SMKs (it's what I had laying around) and found the 175gr was the only one that stabilized. Knowing that, what would be a good soft-point round, like a GameKing, that should stabilize like the 175gr SMK? Is it weight or length that's making the biggest difference? BTW I've got the 175s dialed in sub-MOA at 100 yards.

Reason I ask is because I'd like my SS loads to be able to be used at the range (for fun) but also for nuisance removal (bobcats, coyotes, rabbits, p-dogs). Though my nearest neighbors are over a quarter mile away (and in the opposite direction as my back yard) I usually see those things at dawn when I'm getting in my first cup of coffee. I don't want to wake the guy up with gunfire on a Saturday morning. I'm sure the sound of a regular load at that range with the suppressor isn't going to travel much but I like the idea of the subsonic load not being able to carry very far. </div></div>

Now this is a damn good use of subsonic rounds! My retired, coffee drinking, father-in-law has been complaining about a coon sneaking around his property. This will help me sell him a TBAC.

 

[methos12]

Re: Hunting with a suppresser

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ColdBoreMiracle</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Thats odd, why would the 175 stabilize and the 168 not? </div></div>

No idea. Other folks at the range were stumped, too. Other than the pill the loads were identical: same brass, primer, and load of Trail Boss behind it. But the 168s clearly had oblong holes at 50 yards. Even the 190s had a few tumble. Did 15 of each and only the 175s all had perfectly round holes. Only thing I can think of is the 5R rifling just preferring the 175s, that's what I use for my regular loads.

I poked around on Midway and found 180gr Spitzers by Sierra that look like they might work for SS hunting rounds. The Lapua subsonics almost look like Spitzers but with that step on the boat-tail.

 

[ddavis]

Re: Hunting with a suppresser

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: methos</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ColdBoreMiracle</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Thats odd, why would the 175 stabilize and the 168 not? </div></div>

No idea. Other folks at the range were stumped, too. Other than the pill the loads were identical: same brass, primer, and load of Trail Boss behind it. But the 168s clearly had oblong holes at 50 yards. Even the 190s had a few tumble. Did 15 of each and only the 175s all had perfectly round holes. Only thing I can think of is the 5R rifling just preferring the 175s, that's what I use for my regular loads.

I poked around on Midway and found 180gr Spitzers by Sierra that look like they might work for SS hunting rounds. The Lapua subsonics almost look like Spitzers but with that step on the boat-tail. </div></div>

My 300 BLK stabilizes 208 Amax's and not 150 Nosler Ballistic tips. There is no explanation. You've just gotta find out what will work in your rifle through trial and error.

 

[coldboremiracle]

Re: Hunting with a suppresser

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: RuntheRabbit</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> I hunt in the mntns here in the Rockies and climb 4000 vertical routinely to work hard for my game. </div></div>
So do I.

 

[bassani]

Re: Hunting with a suppresser

i'm going to give this a shot this year as i should have my suppressor in about 5 weeks