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I’m sorry to say this
- Thread starter eca7891
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Learn reading comprehension. As I said above, true reason does not contradict truth, it supports it.It’s a common thread in those that believe their own intellect is above that of scripture. I see the same thing among those I would call friends.
Apparently you and youre type, feel their morality gives them the right to force others to bow to their whims.
Woman commits adultry? Stone her.
Shock Video Shows Woman Stoned to Death by an Afghani Mob | Al Bawaba
Horrifying footage shows an Afghan woman being stoned to death by an angry mob in an attack which activists have blamed on the Taliban. The clip shows
Well, hmmm...that first statement presupposes that one receives a full picture from the HS. It can be argued that one can get reason and morality correct with limited human faculties. They can also get it terribly wrong. I would argue that a finite mind cannot get it 100% correct from a HS standpoint - we are not infinite and live in a fallen world. This is where the issue of humility and a willingness to admit wrong and turn away from error come into play when it has been shown that one's personal beliefs are incorrect.
Now you're getting toward the root cause.
Its really ignorance of the fact that within an infinite, eternal, universe, FULL of energy which the Almighty has given us to use to create, there is nos shortage of anything. The shortage comes when we forget who we really are, and look at the material side only and believe that there is not enough. Then we become fearful of OUR survival and begin to hoard more than we need, which is "Selfishness"
But it all comes out of that earlier ignorance.
The push is to get everyone to first tolerate it
Then consent to it
Then see it as a virtue.
Remember back when drag queens were kind of this fringe thing?
Now days your kids can ask the schools to have the CPS types take them away from you if you don't agree with them dressing in drag and wanting to cut their body parts off. And many kids are all in on it once they have been indoctrinated.
The next pushes for: "no age barriers to love" and "no species barriers to love", will follow the same path with the propaganda being pushed hard across schools, infuencers and popular media, social media, entertainment, movies and music. Just like with same gender sex and pick your gender, they spent a long time laying the groundwork before pulling it together when they were sure they had the upper hand and could vilify their opponents and use the force of government and those "just following orders" and "just obey the law" uniform hangers to enforce the new rules.
You are the one that intentionally quoted scripture to mislead people.Learn reading comprehension. As I said above, true reason does not contradict truth, it supports it.
Apparently you and youre type, feel their morality gives them the right to force others to bow to their whims.
Woman commits adultry? Stone her.
Shock Video Shows Woman Stoned to Death by an Afghani Mob | Al Bawaba
Horrifying footage shows an Afghan woman being stoned to death by an angry mob in an attack which activists have blamed on the Taliban. The clip showswww.albawaba.com
You chose to take part of it, out of context, and create a false comparison to another part.
And it’s not MY morality. For if it came from me it would be flawed.
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Ignorance, ignorance of the impacts of the actions. Ignorance of the actions value/meaning? Because there are truly evil actions that aren't necessarily done for selfish reasons if you ask the executioner of said acts. Again, one mans terrorist is another mans freedom fighter. It all depends which side you are standing on.
This would be a fun conversation over a beer or five
Well all respect but I hope you die. And I hope it is a bad death.
Yes, it is YOUR morality because its the way you choose to interpret what was written. Different people may interpret things differently. trouble is, youre not willing to accept that others may be more correct than you, and if someone disagrees with you, they become wrong and even evil.
I think toward what Jefferson said...I suppose your intellect is superior to his ...
- We are not afraid to follow truth wherever it may lead, nor to tolerate any error so long as reason is left free to combat it. — Thomas Jefferson
I feel a certain amount of pity for you and your ilk, but not much. Youre way to close to Taliban.
You, and your type, are exactly why I sometimes delete whole threads, not because someone disagrees with me, but because they become stupid and contentious, which benefits no one. It may go in the shitter soon.
If youre in the OKC / Lawton area give a shout. The first ones on me.Ignorance, ignorance of the impacts of the actions. Ignorance of the actions value/meaning? Because there are truly evil actions that aren't necessarily done for selfish reasons if you ask the executioner of said acts. Again, one mans terrorist is another mans freedom fighter. It all depends which side you are standing on.
This would be a fun conversation over a beer or five
So lets see if we can resolve this.
First of all, your saying I did something to intentionally mislead people is a huge assumption, you know nothing of my motives
By your morality, a man wearing long hair is sin.
How long. Is shaved head ok? Crew cut? One inch long? Two inches? 3? 4? Where does it become sin?
Same for a woman, if she cuts her hair, where does it become sin? Two feet? One foot? 6 inches? 3? Crew cut?
Simple concise answer, please. Or are you intentionally misleading people.
Ok, I'm getting confused. I shave my head and have a manly grey beard, but I'm currently considering swapping one of my 308 rifles for a 6.5creedmoor. Does this make me immoral? What about if I put a scope on it with an mrad reticle but turrets that are MOA? Will that doom my soul to Hell? Am I good as long AZ I keep my head bald and grow my beard longer?
Not really. I find it to be a very a succinct and intelligent quip. It cuts to the point: if we are able to perform advanced reasoning (“if, then, else”) then there is no reason why a human cannot control their desires. To put another way, only humans are capable of stoicism. People are judged in court because it has been determined that they are capable of understanding that when they perform illegal (for purposes of this discussion, morally wrong) acts AND we’re not under duress at the time of the act. IOW, they did the act under their own free will and actively decided to perform it. The entire justice system is founded upon this principle. A person who it is determined cannot make such judgements is usually not prosecuted because it is recognized that their ability to reason is so impaired that they are not normally functional.
Now, the same absolutely cannot be said for an animal. My bull goes wherever he pleases. He mounts whatever cow he wants. He knocks feed out of my hands to get to it. That dude would be in jail if he was a human and tried that in society. Instead he gets a pass because he isn’t capable of advanced thought nor does he control himself unless extreme force is applied.
I find the statement very accurate. We are all responsible for our actions because we have the reasoning power to stop ourselves. Unless that bull gets up in my chili again - I’m no longer responsible for how we interact. But I think he’s in it for the fight anyway so I lose no matter what. God gives us all crosses to bear I suppose, mine is an idiot bovine.
Absolutely it does. Morality is a null value without choice and action. Or are you really trying to tell me that these individuals who are sexually penetrating infants and children have no choice in their actions? Are you actually saying that they are innocent because the “cannot help themselves”? It cannot be that they are have free will and are also innocent after they have violated a child.
I never said nor implied that. And I still say your post has little relation to my part of the discussion; which kind of boils down to considering religious morality vs reasoned thought.
However, while I in no way condone it, I think that its (pedophilia) a form of mental or emotional illness and many with those illness's may 'know' something is 'wrong' and yet be unable to control the urges. That doesnt make them 'innocent' it makes them sick, and in need of being stopped from continuing their actions.
Now, lets see how you can twist that.
So are you saying all pedophiles are unable to control their urges? Are you saying that all pedophiles find it a life or death circumstance if they do not rape children?
Since, as you say, some cannot control their urges, are they therefore innocent? Should the child and the parents then just let it go because it was too high of a wall to climb for the pedophile to stop his or her actions? And are you saying they should go free because they cannot bring morality or conscience to bear and are therefore actually innocent?
You need to learn some reading comprehension.
Here's a direct quote form my post..."That doesnt make them 'innocent'" Try reading before you make a fool out of yourself
Youre just making stuff up and that in and of itself is a disease. No point in trying to reason with a diseased mind.
Here is my point: you arguments are getting dangerously close to what those who are wanting to legalize this evil are saying. Beginning to excuse it with “they can’t help themselves” is exactly how this whole normalization thing started in this country. Remember NAMBLA? This is a slippery slope to outright victimization of the most innocent and vulnerable in our society. To say they are “sick” is true. To say that the sickness doesn’t make them innocent is also true. But to say they can’t control their urges is a low-key excuse for their behavior. By stating that they cannot control themselves you equated them to humans who have the mental capacity of a dog and we all know that is wrong, except in cases of the mentally impaired which we have already exempted from the conversation.
And yes, this whole thing has to do with the original post. Free will brings culpability regardless of the action. And I would argue that much of the morality is absolute. Unless someone is using religion to manipulate people and prey upon them. In which case they are wrong, not necessarily the religion they are bastardizing (looking at you, Joel osteen and Benny Hinn).
Now youre being ridiculous and didnt even address your error, you just brushed it aside. As stated above, I dont try to reason with diseased minds, in this case, yours. Im done, dont bother replying.
Nope. I am quoting you sir. You need to be thoughtful and measured with your posts instead of intentionally abrasive. Especially with this topic of religion, free will and this scourge of pedophilia. Some things just don’t lend themselves to challenging arguments for no real reason other than to irritate.
Controlling or not controlling your impulses is not a straight forward thing of well they can't control them because they are mentally ill or not.
It's the correct training on negative feedback.
You'll notice on the news all these packs of 13% types totally chimping out for nothing and going savage at the drop of a hat for no good reason and folks say well we can't like stop them. No they do that because they have gotten trained there is no negative consequences. If negative consequences are applied promptly and regularly, behaviour changes.
Much like when I had big dogs, big male wants some bad, female isn't in heat, big male wants to get some female says no, big male still wants some, female says no with teeth, big male still tries it, gets bit. Next time female says no with teeth big male remembers being bit and backs off, and everyone lives together just fine and happy.
Even if somebody is mentally ill, you can change their behaviour by speaking to the lizard brain.
Like you see these supposedly mentally ill folks on the news beating up helpless old people and the stupid prosecutors are like, we'll they don't know right from wrong blah blah...
Just like animals, they do something like beat up someone or attack someone, make sure they almost instantly get the shit beat out of them in retribution by somebody else. Their lizard brain will quickly learn that you do xxx = pain = injury don't do xxx
I dont disagree, but:
I think in many cases they wouldnt learn because even the lizard brain that remains has been so damaged from crack/coke/heroin/meth addicted parents, many compounded with alcohol fetal syndrome, they are not capable of learning. Its just one impulse to the next.
Sad, but I think often thats the case.
If they are truly that brain damaged, that the standard things that keep even the most stupid animals in line don't work, then they need to be in a mental institution for the rest of their lives. (Assuming you are the kind type of civilization, a more austere civilization would just eliminate them.)
BUT I'm going to say that is almost never actually true because all of them are usually capable of understanding how to get basic things they want, and avoid things that cause serious injury or pain. Even the most "damaged" of them don't keep sticking a fork in the power socket over and over...
Most of the time it's people making excuses for them and why they shouldn't be given a good beat down until they learn.
The trick however is that just like with animals, the beat down has to come right there, right then. It does no good once the moment is over.
Just like with training animals, reward or punishment right in that instant is what makes behaviour become permanent.
Back in the old days, plenty of mentally challenged people were put to good use on the family farms and such to earn their food.
Step out of line, you get beat down badly that instant. Then back to work.
Most of them lived out decent, somewhat productive lives.
Those that didn't got to role play "Of Mice and Men"
Well, I would disagree, but its a very subjective call and not investing more time in hashing back and forth.
I just ain't done pissing people off. In for a penny, in for a pound. When people expect to disprove God by quoting the Old Testament about long hair and totally not acknowledge the New Testament makes me wonder if I am in the midst of Hassidic Jews. No problem, just like to know. Jesus came to help people who would normally fail in the law of the Old Testament. That is why He said he was the law. So, the long hair thing is no longer a thing. In fact, the idea of Jesus with long hair comes from the legend that he was a rabbi in the Essene sect, which did not cut hair. (Read the book "Holy Blood, Holy Grail" and it's follow-up, "The Messianic Legacy." I have. I like to read. A lot.)
Greatest weakness of atheists, and I have studied the greats, is that they cannot account for morality and goodness in people. There is no driving evolutionary force to be good. That would be just more religion. So, instead of soi-disant religion, why not have some real religion.
Pedophilia is, still so far, a legal crime. It is also detrimental. And whether anyone agrees with that or not, there are plenty of people who will not suffer a pervert to be around their children. Period, paragraph, end of book. So, to say that the Constitution allows free speech means we can diddle kids is not correct.
We have the right to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. And not being injured and plain messed up by being sexually abused should be obvious. If not, then those people need to not be here.
I don't care how many religions there are and what their different ideas are. Mess with kids, meet Satan, burn forever.
Probably one of the funniest hypocrisies I read is on the creation of the universe. Most people who eschew God believe Einstein's theories. Even though Einstein did believe in God and it was he who stated, "I do not believe God plays dice with the universe." \
They turn around and push the Big Bang Theory (not the show, which was hilarious.) Wait...what? So, God did not create the universe but there was nothing and all of a sudden, there was something?
ROTFLOL
Greatest weakness of atheists, and I have studied the greats, is that they cannot account for morality and goodness in people. There is no driving evolutionary force to be good. That would be just more religion. So, instead of soi-disant religion, why not have some real religion.
Pedophilia is, still so far, a legal crime. It is also detrimental. And whether anyone agrees with that or not, there are plenty of people who will not suffer a pervert to be around their children. Period, paragraph, end of book. So, to say that the Constitution allows free speech means we can diddle kids is not correct.
We have the right to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. And not being injured and plain messed up by being sexually abused should be obvious. If not, then those people need to not be here.
I don't care how many religions there are and what their different ideas are. Mess with kids, meet Satan, burn forever.
Probably one of the funniest hypocrisies I read is on the creation of the universe. Most people who eschew God believe Einstein's theories. Even though Einstein did believe in God and it was he who stated, "I do not believe God plays dice with the universe." \
They turn around and push the Big Bang Theory (not the show, which was hilarious.) Wait...what? So, God did not create the universe but there was nothing and all of a sudden, there was something?
ROTFLOL
Operant conditioning can be used to change one's mind. We use it on our children all the time....child doesn't do homework....child gets punished.
Pedophile touches kid, pedophile gets shot in the head....see operant conditioning.
I will grant you, that conditioning works, every time.
Unfortunately, it doesnt see to discourage others.
It's weird that they borrow a character from a religion they call a myth and create a cult around it. Don't they know how the story ends for Satan? Why can't they just be happy with Vampires and werewolves?
I used operant conditioning to train my dog. So, when the cat would start a fight with him and he would chase her, I called him off and he responded to me because of operant conditioning.
However, a shot to the head simply erases that one problem. We cannot always rely on deterrents but a deceased pedo bothers no more families.
