I’m shooting a mile in 4 weeks, any last pointers?

L

Linkpimp

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Minuteman
Apr 29, 2010
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So-Cal / OC Area
#1
Hey team,
I’ve got a mile shoot coming up on the 26th of Feb, that I'm really looking forward too.. I’ve shot plenty of 1000 yards shots and the farthest I’ve gone out to date was 1,200.. So I’m kind of looking for some pointers here.. Sorry I’m shooting with 14 other gentleman and I don't want to blow it..

I’ll be shooting my DTA SRS in 300 wm

IMG_7458-1.jpg


Using some 220 gr smk.

So here are my questions gentlemen.

Do you think I’ll have enough elevation in my scope? NXS 5.5x22x50 with a 100 yard zero? Personally I think I fine, but I just wanted to double check..

I’ve read that the wind comes in and become a big problem after 1500 yards? How and at what distance’s are you reading the wind at?

The location that’s has been chosen provide either a level or an elevated target area, which do think would be better?. We’ll be shooting at 1, 2 & 3 MOA targets, if that maters.

Video taping it.. Any pointers.. We are thinking about using some sandbags and taking 2 recorders and placing them 20-30 feet away from the targets and just letting them run while we shoot, then showing a split screen when its done? Or is it better to set up behind the shooter and watch it all from the scopes? We’ll have about 4-6 recorders total. I’m just not sure how to place it all and well, how to splice it all together so it stays genuine..

We figure we’ll confirm everything (distance wise) through GPS, Google earth and range finders.

So what am I missing here gentlemen?, I really cant go out and practice for this as my local range is only 900 yards. Well 890 actually, sorry..

Anyway.. Thank you for your time and words of wisdom.

Link
 
#2
Re: I’m shooting a mile in 4 weeks, any last pointers?

Scope elevation?

That will depend upon your load and bullet performance from your rifle. I forget the total elevation in the Nightforce (but you can figure it out easy enough), but you can do some simple subtraction to see if you have it all in your scope or will need to hold over. You definitely need to know if you have sufficient room in the scope, although holding over is not fatal, both my brother and I needed to hold over when we shot the mile.

First you'll need a good ballistic program to tell you the come up to 1,760 yards ( 1 mile) from your 100 yard zero. My Brother and I shot the mile last summer here in the Vegas desert, and he was holding over 40+ minutes after using all the elevation he had in his scope. he shoots a .284 Winchester at 2,900 fps with the Berger 180 (which has better BC than the 220 smks). At the time he had a zero degree base. He now has a 20 MOA base, but will still need to hold over 20 MOA or so.

Wind reads - we read it at our firing point, and place a few wind indicators (helium balloons tied to 6 or 7 feet of light twine) at the target point. The desert where we shoot has few natural wind indicators, as the sage and brush just shakes whether the wind is 5 mph or 20mph. if you can get some intermediate indicators that is nice to have. The 9" balloons that we use also make nice little moving targets to shoot at distance.

Target size. 1 MOA at mile. That one is going to be spicy for sure, if you have much wind at all. You will love the long range, do it as much as you can.

Video taping. If you can, I prefer to have one or two downrange and one or two at the firing point. If not, then I like the ones through the spotters. When we shot most recently, the wind was up and the spotter scopes were hard to keep still enough to make use of them from the firing point, so we abandoned trying to watch trace and were left with impact spotting. If the wind is up, you'll likely do best with them down range, then just take care to track the shots.

If you can get up in the air to shot do it. It makes spotting and calling bullet impact much easier. From a flat range, it difficult to see the difference between a shot impact 20 yards in front of the target and one 20 yards behind it, if its a clear filed of view and its left or right of the target.
 
#3
Re: I’m shooting a mile in 4 weeks, any last pointers?

If you're going to shoot a mile, in most conditions you're going to need a spotter who is closer than the shooter, assuming that you're not using a range with berms with target service.

A spotter with a radio in a protected location can get you on the target a lot faster than trying to do that from the shooter's location.
 
#4
Re: I’m shooting a mile in 4 weeks, any last pointers?

Needed 62 moa of elevation from a 100 yd. zero using a 338 Lapua with 250 smk @ 3000fps. Spin drift comes into play at this distance so figure that in. We spotted from the shooting position and it took 8 shots to get on target the first time we tried this. After getting on we hammered the heck out of the target which was 32" square or a little under 2 moa.
Time of flight is amazing, take a sandwich to eat while waiting for bullet impact.
 
#5
Re: I’m shooting a mile in 4 weeks, any last pointers?

Foremost observe good "form"! Get comfortable.
Try to find the flattest spot on the ground to lay your rifle.Use a scope level.
Put something under the bipod feet so they don't sink deeper into the dirt every shot.
I try to err on the upwind side of the target so I dial/hold little more wind than the program indicates,seems to work most of the time.
Don't spray and pray.If possible try to shoot the same wind condition.Once you've hit the target shoot 2-3 more(good}shots as quickly as possible.

Above all have fun and enjoy the company!
 
#6
Re: I’m shooting a mile in 4 weeks, any last pointers?

Link,

If you can take the elevated firing point it will facilitate better spotting, and help reduce mirage.

Depending on conditons, spotting may be easier than you think (I'm guessing here, SoCal high desert). When conditions here are dry, I have no trouble spotting splashes through 10X riflescope.

I pushed some 220 SMKs to a mile from my 308Win, started at 2550 fps. They needed 94 moa, at 4500ft el, about 25.60 Hg pressure. I used a MK4 3.5-10x40 M1 scope with Gen II mildot. dialed 60 moa and held over 10 mils (34.4 moa) via reticle.

At 300 WinMag velocities, I'd guesstimate you will need somewhere between 65-75 moa, depending on atmo and mv.
 
#7
Re: I’m shooting a mile in 4 weeks, any last pointers?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: steve123</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Use a scope level.</div></div>

Perhaps the most important piece of advice in this thread. You can do everything else correctly. If your rifle is not plumb, you will miss and not know why.

We (with MontanaMarine actually
grin.gif
) were shooting on a slight sidehill this last summer and I lined up my rifle for a mile shot, glanced at my level and was amazed at how far off I was. The sidehill made it *very* difficult to figure out where level was. If you're shooting on open, flat terrain it won't be as much of a problem, but I've shot with guys that *still* could not find plumb without a level.

John
 
#8
Re: I’m shooting a mile in 4 weeks, any last pointers?

The elevated target could add another bit of math to your world, so I'd stay with level.
 
#9
Re: I’m shooting a mile in 4 weeks, any last pointers?

If you have accurate horizontal distance via GPS or google earth, it will not really matter how elevated you are in making your initial drop correction.

At a mile you have to get really high to make much difference anyway. One of my shooting spots puts me about 600 feet higher than the target at 1 mile. The horizontal distance is 1760 yards, the LOS distance is 1771 yards.

For some serious high angle play, I'd love to set up on the rim of the Grand Canyon, and shoot targets down in the bottom. That's roughly a mile or so deep.
 
#11
Re: I’m shooting a mile in 4 weeks, any last pointers?

Yeah, depending on the composition of the terrain at the target (as well as wind), spotting the splash at a mile can be a real challenge. If you can get a spotter closer with a radio it'll make things less frustrating. Remote cameras can be problematic at that distance as well as most rely on some form of FM signal as few that I know of are powerful enough for that distance (unless you place the receiver closer than your firing point). The easy solution is to use a camera that you can setup and leave running for an hour or more. This is exactly how I've done it in the past and while slow, it does work.
 
#12
Re: I’m shooting a mile in 4 weeks, any last pointers?

Like Lindy said. Make sure you can spot your misses. Use a really good spotter or make sure you target has a back drop that splashes. Mine is made of sand, which creates a huge splash making wind calls much easier.
 
#13
Re: I’m shooting a mile in 4 weeks, any last pointers?

Gentlemen,
Excellent advise.. Thank you.. Really thanks a lot.

A few more questions / clarifications if you don't mind.

I think I have 90 ups on my scope, so I should be fine then, I’ll double check tonight when I'm home..

I’m a little lost on the scope level, I’ve never needed it before but ok.. If you guys say so, I’ll pick one up this week.. and use sandbags under the bipod..

Yeah we don't have remote cameras so, like dogtown referenced we’ll end bringing spare batteries and just leave 2 of them pointed at the targets all day. We’ll have some pretty nice spotting scopes to, so hopefully we can figure out how the hock the two up.

I’m still a little confused on the shooting / target location thou.. Sorry.. Let me see if I have this correct.
To avoid the mirage I/we want to shoot down to the target, the higher elevated I/we are the better we’ll have it.
We actually have the opportunity to get 150’ above it, if that would help? But then we would be shooting into a flat level area with no backstop below but another 1mile of flat terrain

So basically we have three options that are available to us:
1. Shoot level to the target
2. Shoot an elevated target against a 150’ berm
3. Shoot off the berm to the target below

Which would you do? Or do we simply go with the one that produces the biggest (back splash)

Would I be better off with some 208 amax inlue of the 220’s SMK? I was thinking I wanted the extra weight for the wind?

Spotting.. When you referencing a forward observer, I’m assuming someone is 500 -800 yards away and a few hundred yards off the right or left of the intended targets? Correct?

Again IDK?? Sorry gentlemen, that why I here.. Looking for some help and guidance..

I really appreciate the advise..

Thanks again

Link
 
#14
Re: I’m shooting a mile in 4 weeks, any last pointers?

I like this option:

"3. Shoot off the berm to the target below"

Why, because it gets you above the mirage closest to you, and will still let you have a decent perspective to observe impacts.
 
#15
Re: I’m shooting a mile in 4 weeks, any last pointers?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Linkpimp</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Would I be better off with some 208 amax inlue of the 220’s SMK? I was thinking I wanted the extra weight for the wind? </div></div>

Weight is only your friend if a). you're killing stuff or b) it also comes with a higher BC.

In this case the 220 weighs more (slower) and has a lower BC. Both bad (in a relative sense). It won't be earthshattering, but if you can get them to run, the 208's will go flatter and cut wind better.

John
 
#16
Re: I’m shooting a mile in 4 weeks, any last pointers?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: MontanaMarine</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I like this option:

"3. Shoot off the berm to the target below"

Why, because it gets you above the mirage closest to you, and will still let you have a decent perspective to observe impacts.

</div></div>

Makes sense to me.. Thanks


<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jrob300</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Linkpimp</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Would I be better off with some 208 amax inlue of the 220’s SMK? I was thinking I wanted the extra weight for the wind? </div></div>

Weight is only your friend if a). you're killing stuff or b) it also comes with a higher BC.

In this case the 220 weighs more (slower) and has a lower BC. Both bad (in a relative sense). It won't be earthshattering, but if you can get them to run, the 208's will go flatter and cut wind better.

John </div></div>

Thank you for the clarification.. I hear so much of this and that.. much appreciated.. I think I can find a box or two in the next few weeks.
 
#19
Re: I’m shooting a mile in 4 weeks, any last pointers?

Mirage shouldn't be bad. It's southern California, not <insert free state with crappy weather>. Our winters are like your spring.
 
#20
Re: I’m shooting a mile in 4 weeks, any last pointers?

Bring alot of Ammo + Water,Have Fun and be Safe.
Bribe or beg an experienced spotter for help.
Calculate what you need to calculate.Turn some dials,get comfortable,pray,breathe and do what your spotter tells you to do after you fire.
It's that simple,nothing to worry about.
 
#21
Re: I’m shooting a mile in 4 weeks, any last pointers?

You should be using the Desert Tactical tapered scope mounts (40 moa). That will enable you to shoot out 2000 yards with your night force scope, providing you get the 338 conversion. 2000 is too far for your 300, but after a mile you'll be looking for further distances!
 
#22
Re: I’m shooting a mile in 4 weeks, any last pointers?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: LapuaMile</div><div class="ubbcode-body">2000 is too far for your 300</div></div>

OK. Everybody on the site (and elsewhere for that matter) with a 300WM can stop shooting 2000 yds and further, 'cuz now we KNOW that we can't do it. It's right there in black and white. Good that we've heard from an authority on the subject. Now I (and any of the rest of you so inclined)can quit wasting time.

This is about as sarcastic and negative you'll see me get on this forum, when people who obviously have no idea what they're talking about spout this stuff as gospel. Wow.

John
 
#23
Re: I’m shooting a mile in 4 weeks, any last pointers?

Bring a big target! Seriously. Wind and range will throw you off your target by quite a bit. I have used flat carboard boxes (buy new at Home Depot for $2). I slice them and turn it inside out so I have a clean sheet. I also buy 1x2 about 4' long and sharpen it to hold the cardboard up. Bring some duct tape, black tape to make make an X and masking tape to tape the holes shut etc. Anyway, spend some time and thought on your target, you will do better with a good one.
 
#24
Re: I’m shooting a mile in 4 weeks, any last pointers?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jrob300</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: LapuaMile</div><div class="ubbcode-body">2000 is too far for your 300</div></div>

OK. Everybody on the site (and elsewhere for that matter) with a 300WM can stop shooting 2000 yds and further, 'cuz now we KNOW that we can't do it. It's right there in black and white. Good that we've heard from an authority on the subject. Now I (and any of the rest of you so inclined)can quit wasting time.

This is about as sarcastic and negative you'll see me get on this forum, when people who obviously have no idea what they're talking about spout this stuff as gospel. Wow.

John </div></div>

How can you doubt the wisdom of someone called LapuaMile? Even though he just bought it, but come on, surely he knows his shit!
 
#25
Re: I’m shooting a mile in 4 weeks, any last pointers?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jrob300</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: LapuaMile</div><div class="ubbcode-body">2000 is too far for your 300</div></div>

OK. Everybody on the site (and elsewhere for that matter) with a 300WM can stop shooting 2000 yds and further, 'cuz now we KNOW that we can't do it. It's right there in black and white. Good that we've heard from an authority on the subject. Now I (and any of the rest of you so inclined)can quit wasting time.

This is about as sarcastic and negative you'll see me get on this forum, when people who obviously have no idea what they're talking about spout this stuff as gospel. Wow.

John</div></div>




hell....i scare feral goats at that distance with my 300......and got the video to prove it!!!
 
#26
Re: I’m shooting a mile in 4 weeks, any last pointers?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BOLTRIPPER</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jrob300</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: LapuaMile</div><div class="ubbcode-body">2000 is too far for your 300</div></div>

OK. Everybody on the site (and elsewhere for that matter) with a 300WM can stop shooting 2000 yds and further, 'cuz now we KNOW that we can't do it. It's right there in black and white. Good that we've heard from an authority on the subject. Now I (and any of the rest of you so inclined)can quit wasting time.

This is about as sarcastic and negative you'll see me get on this forum, when people who obviously have no idea what they're talking about spout this stuff as gospel. Wow.

John</div></div>




hell....i scare feral goats at that distance with my 300......and got the video to prove it!!! </div></div>

You're killin' me Bolt.
wink.gif


John
 
#27
Re: I’m shooting a mile in 4 weeks, any last point

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Swan</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jrob300</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: LapuaMile</div><div class="ubbcode-body">2000 is too far for your 300</div></div>

OK. Everybody on the site (and elsewhere for that matter) with a 300WM can stop shooting 2000 yds and further, 'cuz now we KNOW that we can't do it. It's right there in black and white. Good that we've heard from an authority on the subject. Now I (and any of the rest of you so inclined)can quit wasting time.

This is about as sarcastic and negative you'll see me get on this forum, when people who obviously have no idea what they're talking about spout this stuff as gospel. Wow.

John </div></div>

How can you doubt the wisdom of someone called LapuaMile? Even though he just bought it, but come on, surely he knows his shit! </div></div>

Ha! And he just bought it, he doesn't even have it yet. I guess just forking out the cash for one makes you an authority. So, here it is, all you guys shooting these sissy non-large bores need to just quit sucessfully hitting these targets, because aparently, you can't. . . . . Even if you have been doing it for years. . . .

OP, that's a great looking piece of gear. My local shop is going to be a dealer now, so I will finally get to check one out first hand. Have a great time on your shoot, I'm sure you will be able to defy the impossible and make some hits.
 
#28
Re: I’m shooting a mile in 4 weeks, any last point

Probably the easiest thing to do first is......

From your 100 yards zero start turning your elevation knob up until it stops. However much mil/moa you get is your max adjust (probably, doubt you have phantom clicks).

If your max adjust is less than what you need for 1760 yards then you are going to need a solution for more up.

Don't forget to turn it back down to 100yards.
 
#30
Re: I’m shooting a mile in 4 weeks, any last pointers?

Just go out and have fun. A person can hit ten shots in a row at 1 mile, and then return next week and couldn't even hit 3 in a row. For a 30 Cal projo, the wind is going to be your nightmare. Even for a 338 projo, and the 50 BMG (750 AMAX) for that matter, the wind is going to knock it around a bit. Key thing to remember is to get as much data/info about the shots you took, the MET, ENV data, your wind call, and how much adjustment needed to get on the target. All of these will help you significantly the second time comes around in guessing your first shot. Enjoy your outting and welcome to the one mile and beyond club.
 
#33
Re: I’m shooting a mile in 4 weeks, any last pointers?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: mattt</div><div class="ubbcode-body">What happened to your shoot? </div></div>
It got canceled due to nasty weather, heavy rain & snow at the proposed site.
 
#34
Re: I’m shooting a mile in 4 weeks, any last pointers?

Hey Guys thought I would add a few things here, even though its a little late in the game.

1. The scope should be set with precision levels to insure the recital is plumb & level with the action. We bed the rail, & it is also checked with precision levels in relationship to the action to ensure accuracy.

2. I recommend the type of level that attaches to the rail, not the type that attaches to the scope. While this method may appear functional, IMHO there is too much room for error stack ups, unless the before mentioned is strictly adhered to & that the scope level method is pampered - so any potential abuse that a field gun may be subjected to will not effect the initial accuracy of the "system". Midway had/has the US Optics model on sale for under $70.00 this month.

3. Shooting from an elevated position, or bluff, where the ground in front of your optics falls away rapidly helps reduce the atmospheric noise (mirage) in line with the path of the target as MM pointed out. This is a solid piece of advice!

As Graham Indicated:
4. Most Ballistic Programs operate using G1, for an accurate firing solution past 800 yards - You will need to first of all, determine & verify the change in down range BC as the projo slows down, in order to determine an accurate firing solution at these distances. Another potential option, might be to run a program that can accurately develop a firing solution running G7 standard.

5. Do not let ANYONE tell you it can not be done until you verify this as a fact for yourself! - of course AFTER you have made a ballistic feasibility study to answer you initial question, IF an engagement at this distance in theoretically possible employing your platform, cartridge/load/bullet combination(s) I have, in many instances, seen firsthand 300 WM & 7MM chamberings make good showings in the realm of a mile under reasonable atmospheric shooting conditions. (But hey what do I know)

6. Order "Spin D", its a new product that will assist with certain factors that may, or may not be factors that exist firing at ELR engagement distances, if your program does not calculate spin, or you do not have the means to make these calculations without the aid of a program, then Spin D certainly cant hurt >;O)

7. For a follow up shot, send the second round at the target as fast as effectively practical. A good spotter IMO will indicate a "hold off" correction (tell you where to shoot) not where the bullet hit off the target. This is almost useless information if you have to think about a correction, also no dicking with the knobs, hold off & send the follow up.

The most important factor is to have fun, while at the same time, growing from the experience - learning something about yourself - & the actual capability of your weapon system - AND as an added benefit, in most instances, meeting some really great people that share a common interest at the same time!!

No shame in trying... shame only comes from having the desire, the drive or the goal to attempt something & not trying at all.

Aug ><>

 
#35
Re: I’m shooting a mile in 4 weeks, any last pointers?

DesertHK

A lot of truth in your comment! Atmospheric conditions alone, not including wind, play a huge factor in bullet performance down range. If you are not accounting for these factors at these distances, no joy, or hope to potentially hit the target in 2, let alone cold bore.

Aug ><>
 
#36
Re: I’m shooting a mile in 4 weeks, any last pointers?

-<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
2. I recommend the type of level that attaches to the rail, not the type that attaches to the scope. While this method may appear functional, IMHO there is too much room for error stack ups, unless the before mentioned is strictly adhered to & that the scope level method is pampered - so any potential abuse that a field gun may be subjected to will not effect the initial accuracy of the "system". Midway had/has the US Optics model on sale for under $70.00 this month.</div></div>

Can you give more Details on this ?

In My backwoods way of thinking, I don't care now level the Rifle is, only the Erector in the Scope. Seems to me the Rifle could be layed Sideways, as long as the Erector in the scope is LEVEL... it will adjust True.

I prefer and use the Scope mounted levels, I level them to the Turrets, then verify @ 100 yards by adjusting 5 MOA up at a time and checking to see that it shoots a Vertical Line straight up... if it wanders left or right, I adjust the level accordingly and test again. Rail mounted levels make No sense to me unless you spin your Scope in the rings to match it.
 
#37
Re: I’m shooting a mile in 4 weeks, any last pointers?

Ace - The objective is the same, and that is to remove cant from the system; or in, if I am reading your post correctly, you adjust the deviation out if the action is canted when you set the system up?

The objective, of course, is so the vertical elevation adjustments(s) tracks true vertical as the range increases - and elevation is added to the sight. It sounds like you use a process of trial & error shooting up a vertical line, & adjust the level on the scope tube?

My smith uses a precision level inside the action - also at the same time, while the scope is being fixed in the rings with another level on elevation turret on the scope. These level readings are checked against a plumbed line on a target, then the tracking is verified on target firing only a few rounds - done deal.

Edited to add:
I guess what I am saying is, IF the action is level to begin with, gives me a base line to get the vertical line in the scope plumb without using the windage adjustment to correct for the deviation if the rifle/action were canted to begin with... does that make sense?

Aug ><>
 
#38
Re: I’m shooting a mile in 4 weeks, any last pointers?

Sounds like a good way to set it up. I saw a poor man's method of leveling a scope a few weeks ago, the gentleman placed a stack of feeler gauges under a flatspot on the bottom of the scope front and rear and slowly tightened the rings down making sure that there was no cant to the scope as he tightened the rings...seemed to be fast and effective way to level the scope to the rifle and beat the hell out of the way I was doing it before! I will exercise my fifth ammendment rights to not answer any further questions related to my prior method! Lmao
 
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