I bought my first real barrel. Is it supposed to do this? Throat/freebore question.

[sgtmack]

Sorry for the wall of text, but here goes.

I recently broke down and paid for a real barrel for my Savage. I saved a little longer than I wanted to get a prefit from a well known company on a top shelf cut blank. I was hoping to increase the odds of getting a good shooting barrel. It's in .223 AI, so after reading everything thing I could about headspacing and watching a few videos, I got it screwed on. Went to the farm and fire formed about 70 pieces of LC brass. It all looked good, fired fine, shot like typical LC. So, being poor, I wanted to try some other brands of brass until I can save for Lapua. And that's where the questions started. I can't chamber factory IMI ammo in my new barrel. The first round I chambered was hard to close the bolt on, and when I tried to extract it I had to smack the bolt handle to get it out. It appears the bullet got stuck in the throat just ahead of the chamber. Here is a pic of the round.

Not having a comparator yet, I used the cleaning rod method to check seating depth for a 73gr ELD bullet, and overall length is at 2.3". That seems really short. 75's are a lot shorter than the old barrel, I can't even chamber my old loads in it.

I was hoping to try some 80gr bullets, but it appears there won't be enough room to for one outside the case. Is my new barrel broke?

 

[loveha]

Did you use actual go and no go gauges?
You didn't specify so of course we have to ask.

 

[sgtmack]

I used a new round with 2 pieces of tape. Not very high tech, I know, but it's what I had.
We have dome a couple other Savage barrels, and they went OK, so I was hoping this one would also.

Re sized .223 brass, LC, and Hornady rounds all chamber OK. I did re seat a 75gr Amax .223 round from the old barrel load to 2.4" overall, and it chambered smoothly. They were a little over 2.5 in the old barrel.

 

[loveha]

I also recently did a Savage rebarrel to 300WSM. Had one particular factory load that did almost the same thing. Except I don't have any issue with extraction, it's sometimes a little stiff, but nothing major. My problem load is 165gr Hornady Whitetail. I have no issues with 200gr ELD-X. Looking at the bullets, the Ogive is a bit bigger on the Whitetail. So maybe it is bullet design.

 

[spife7980]

What’s the freebore spec of this well known company’s reamer?

 

[SDGator]

I'm just starting out, myself, but I would call/email the barrel company and see what they say.

Assuming the barrel was reamed to minimum SAAMI specs, you could also use calipers to see if that particular cartridge is outside of anything you can measure. Try to get the actual chamber measurements from the barrel company when you contact them.

 

[FCS]

I used a new round with 2 pieces of tape. Not very high tech, I know, but it's what I had.
We have dome a couple other Savage barrels, and they went OK, so I was hoping this one would also.

Re sized .223 brass, LC, and Hornady rounds all chamber OK. I did re seat a 75gr Amax .223 round from the old barrel load to 2.4" overall, and it chambered smoothly. They were a little over 2.5 in the old barrel.

Ogive & transition profile of bullet used has a significant influence on needed freebore.
There are sooooo many variations of "match" 223, 223 AI reamers with different combinations freebore, lead angle and body dimensions. One really does want to call out needed dimensions or verify those dimensions before buying the barrel. No reason to pay to "fix" a dimension when it can be taken care of from the beginning.

Pick bullet
Make dummy round with bullet(s) of choice to determine needed freebore / lead angle

Prefit barrels are great but that also means you get what you get in terms of chamber unless you specifically ask about dimensions that are important to your end goal.

 

[FCS]

I'm just starting out, myself, but I would call/email the barrel company and see what they say.

Assuming the barrel was reamed to minimum SAAMI specs, you could also calipers to see if that particular cartridge is outside of that. Try to get the actual chamber measurements from the barrel company when you contact them.

"Problem" is there isn't a SAAMI spec for a 223 AI. Once you get into "wildcat" cartridges, it is on buyer to define dimensions that are going to negatively impact the use of desired bullet, etc.

 

[whatsupdoc]

On a AI chamber a NEW factory 223 round should make GOOD contact at the neck shoulder junction. You should not be using tape behind the case to set headspace. Typically a 223 go gauge will be a 223 AI nogo gauge, you are trying to minimize case stretch.

On your IMI ammo you need to confirm where the problem lies, the case or the bullet, pull a bullet and see if the case chambers.
Make sure you lube your bolt lugs, galling them is easy on tight cases.

Worst case dont use IMI ammo if everything else works.
Get a print of the reamer they used on your barrel.

I always wonder why people opt for non standard shit then ask why standard shit dont fit. LOL

 

[FCS]

On a AI chamber a NEW factory 223 round should make GOOD contact at the neck shoulder junction. You should not be using tape behind the case to set headspace. Typically a 223 go gauge will be a 223 AI nogo gauge, you are trying to minimize case stretch.

On your IMI ammo you need to confirm where the problem lies, the case or the bullet, pull a bullet and see if the case chambers.
Make sure you lube your bolt lugs, galling them is easy on tight cases.

Worst case dont use IMI ammo if everything else works.
Get a print of the reamer they used on your barrel.

I always wonder why people opt for non standard shit then ask why standard shit dont fit. LOL

One large contributor is the Internet.
Partial information that provides a conformational bias.
Another contributor is the unconscious blending of one term to two or more separate items but term has very different meanings / base value to each item.
“Match” is term that falls into this category.
“Match” ammo, “ Match” chamber / reamer, “Match” barrel. Similar but not same meaning.

 

[sgtmack]

The problem with asking for specs before I ordered it is I'm new at this, and would have no idea what any of the numbers meant. Being new, I was just wondering if a shorter freebore than factory was normal. I will send them a note and ask if they have a recommendation for bullets for it. As long as it shoots OK I won't get too concerned about OAL.

Thanks for the responses!

 

[FCS]

The problem with asking for specs before I ordered it is I'm new at this, and would have no idea what any of the numbers meant. Being new, I was just wondering if a shorter freebore than factory was normal. I will send them a note and ask if they have a recommendation for bullets for it. As long as it shoots OK I won't get too concerned about OAL.

Thanks for the responses!

Looking at picture in original post, appears freebore is going to be in the 0.060” range. That will work well for higher BC, 12-14 ogive profile bullets (80.5 Berger, 80 ELD-M, or similar).
M193 / clone ammo (IMI 55 FMJ) is loaded around a NATO chamber dimension so shorter freebore wouldn’t be uncommon.
Ogive profile of 55 FMJs varies between mfg’ers also, meaning for same OAL some mfg’ers 55 FMJ will be in lands and some will not be.

 

[sgtmack]

Looking at picture in original post, appears freebore is going to be in the 0.060” range. That will work well for higher BC, 12-14 ogive profile bullets (80.5 Berger, 80 ELD-M, or similar).
M193 / clone ammo (IMI 55 FMJ) is loaded around a NATO chamber dimension so shorter freebore wouldn’t be uncommon.
Ogive profile of 55 FMJs varies between mfg’ers also, meaning for same OAL some mfg’ers 55 FMJ will be in lands and some will not be.

Thank you. It looks like the 73's I was using before are very short for their weight. I measured a leftover 75 Amax, and it looks like I have plenty of room for it. If I can find any in stock, I'll try a couple different heavier bullets and see how it shoots.

 

[FCS]

Thank you. It looks like the 73's I was using before are very short for their weight. I measured a leftover 75 Amax, and it looks like I have plenty of room for it. If I can find any in stock, I'll try a couple different heavier bullets and see how it shoots.

75 Amax is discontinued, has been for couple years (maybe longer)
75 ELD-M is replacement.
Find OAL that touches lands, back off 0.040 and find load.
Fine tune seating depth later if needed.

 

[Birddog6424]

You're trying to redneck your way through this. You've made the investment to get a nicer barrel, don't be such a cheapskate that the effort is lost.

Spend $25 lousy dollars and buy a Hornady Comparator tool and find out where your lands are. And quite honestly, if you're spinning on a new barrel you should have a $40 Go Gauge. I honestly wouldn't even think about swapping a barrel without one, and I swap barrels all the time.

Do it right and you'll eliminate the very large majority of possible issues.

 

[ShadowBear]

and THIS is why I tell my gunsmith what I want to do with the rifle, ask him what I should buy (dies & such) and then leave him the hell alone while he works his magic. Shooter's job is to hit the target, Gunsmith's job is to make it easy. Of course, I'm an old fart, so.......... maybe I learned some lessons