I have met the enemy

[DannC]

I am a member of a small gun club with only of about 125 members. We have monthly 22 RF 50 yd. bench rest, 100 yd, center fire and a "action" pistol, 2gun and 3gun matches.
Several months ago I was talking to one of our best shooters who usually wins these "action" matches. In our conversations he mentioned that he had just bought his 7 - 8 year old son a age and size appropriate single shot 22 and hoped to get him to the range to introduce him to shooting. Because he had taken a new job [he is also a parttime deputy] his free time and participation in our matches had been sporadic.
Last month I asked him if he had a chance to bring his son to the range. His usual happy demeanor immediately darken and he responded NO.
I said that I guessed his new job was preventing him from having the time to enjoy the ability to have time to bond with his son in an activity that they both could enjoy.
He told me that that was not the case. He had asked his son if he wanted to go shoot his new gun. His son told him that he did not like guns and they were bad.
This from a child who knew that his dad was was very active in shooting sports and law enforcement.
This was during the time of the Parkland, Fla. shooting, his teachers and fellow students were actively anti gun and he did not want to be associated with guns.
Peer pressure from his fellow students organized by the teachers and administration had him not wanting to be ostracised for using firearms.
Within a generation our "gun culture" will be eliminated. There are no participants under about 35 years of age in any of our matches.
We are DOOMED!

 

[fdkay]

Isn't it odd, though, that these same gun haters spend the entire weekend playing first person shooters on the x box or playstation.

The fellow needs to take his son aside, away from the corrupting influences and take the time to explain to him that a gun can't be "bad", just like a rock or a hammer can't be "bad".
They are tools that can be used for evil purposes by evil people, but an inanimate object is nothing more than molecules arranged in a certain pattern, sitting there.

 

[Sean the Nailer]

I'd say it's time for that PARENT to step up and PARENT, and leave the 'schooling' for the teachers. Even then, I'd be 'schooling' the teacher about boundary's and doctrine.

 

[W54/XM-388]

I'd say it's time for that PARENT to step up and PARENT, and leave the 'schooling' for the teachers. Even then, I'd be 'schooling' the teacher about boundary's and doctrine.

Exactly, it's time for some serious parenting and teaching that kid not specifically about guns, but about Propaganda and how the kid is being lied to and used as a foot soldier for the communists on so many fronts.

Forget the gun angle for starts, teach them first how much they are being lied to and turned into group mind slaves. Teach them how to think for themselves with their own real logic and ignore what others say.

This is also why I don't much care for our current school "indoctrination" system where everybody just happily sends their kids to Communist indoctrination camp for 12 to 18 years and wonders why they all come out totally messed up Communist zombies without their own brains.
Social media is even worse with the whole forcing that you must be a whole hearted disciple of whatever way the 'popular' wind blows that day or be shunned.

 

[DannC]

I don't know how you can have an adult conversation with the sensabilities of a seven year old. His teachers have more one on one influence than even the most devoted parent.

 

[Va_Gentleman]

Ouch.... I think I know the club you are talking about, good folks there and to have one of our children say that.. just ouch.

I started mine at 3 y.o. with BB Gun... then 4 y.o. with 22lr... then hunting at 5y.o. before school started just so that she could have a chance against the education, media and social peer views. Ouch...

If my daughter said this to me, I think it would put me in the hospital.

 

[FS1]

I would have made him fire it. Many different times. I wonder if its mom that is cold on firearms?

I disagree that the Gun Culture will go away. You want an uprising, then try to take them away. Our current Social and Political situations are showing why we should have them. The Left just tries to turn that to why we should not.

As they try to indoctrinate our children in school rather than teach them. More people will become more active in their kids education. Some parents still won't give a crap but the majority will.

If our Govt of the people fails. The people who depend only on Govt will ultimately fail with it. Darwin will get them. So the left should be careful what they ask for.

 

[Sieg]

Key words:
1. School
2. Teacher
3. Indoctrination

The education systems in the US have been breeding socialistic behavior for 20+ years. They are the enemy in my opinion.

The level of applicable real-world skills that kids graduate with at any level is pathetic at best. Unless non-profit fund raising, social activism, and protest are considered viable skill sets.

 

[WATERWALKER]

One year a teacher had a life-sized Obama cut out in the classroom. I called the school (prior to the start of school that year) & requested to have my kid moved to another class. I didn’t want that sort of influence on my child. The school said “No. Not going to happen.” I explained that it was fine, & that my child would be home schooled. Starting immediately. Somehow, the school was now willing to accommodate my request & in turn I also told them that my wife & I would like to have a chit chat w/ the new teacher to determine her stance on various issues. The year went very well.

Eventually, the school adopted the Common Core curriculum, thus becoming a retard incubator & both my children have been home schooled for years. We sacrifice a second income but I don’t have to worry about child abuse at a daycare center, piss poor influences at school or a shitty education.

It works well for us. Also, our children have learned much more as a result. Standardized testing has proven this many times over. We also take part in a home-school coop program & the kids take part in several sports / social programs so that isn’t an issue. My kids also complain if they don’t get enough range time.

 

[buffalowinter]

This is just a parenting failure.

 

[j-huskey]

I don't know how you can have an adult conversation with the sensabilities of a seven year old. His teachers have more one on one influence than even the most devoted parent.

I very very very strongly disagree.... one blood child, 6 step children, and 10 grandchildren later....
The seven year old is waaaayyyyy smarter than most people think. And they are little knowledge sponges, feed them the knowledge they seek, and meet their emotional needs, and while the teacher is an influence, the family "can" and should own the child.....
ymmv based on the time you choose to invest. Yes, there are a few losers and there are a few born stupid, but, it does not have to be

 

[TimeWillTell]

In regards to the comment about not having any shooters under 35 in club matches... When I look at the future I am still hopeful regarding the shooting sports. I am 30 now and actively shoot. I have many friends that do the same. We would all love to compete in various comps but we are in a stage in life with young kids. So I haven't been to any matches in a long time as they just don't work with schedules right now. Hopefully that'll change in the next few years as my kids get out of diapers and my job situation changes. I have a half dozen friends with nearly the exact same situation as I have.

 

[DannC]

I do not know this man beyond what I have learned at our range. I do think he is a good parent and loves his kids. Children want to be liked and fit in.
This is not something that will be easily overcome. He is very distraught by the indoctrination/alienation of his child. I hope that he attends our 3gun match tomorrow and I will see if he has more to tell me.

PM sent to VA.Gentleman

 

[j-huskey]

If my daughter said this to me, I think it would put me in the hospital.

Over 20 years ago, the 16 year old came in.... (She was seeing one absolute piece of loser shit !)..
She said, "I'm pregnant."
I said, "Ok"
She adopted a kind of questioning look.
She said, "I don't know what I'm gonna do."
I said, "Why don't you pick out some names ?"
Blew her mind.....

Today my 20 year old grand-daughter is real close to being my best bud.....

I could have really f'd that up when 16 came in and said.....
The 7 year olds dad has a wonderful opportunity here to make a difference in two lives... and down the road, perhaps three.
You play the hand life deals you, and sometimes you need to keep a real poker face, just sayin...

FWIW, I haven't met a 7 year old I couldn't bribe with a trip to Disney world, 6 flags, the beach, the fair, trip to their favorite meal, or in one case, play station game sales store, and a cheap ass drone... and in a few months have the 7 year old happily shooting the gun... just sayin.... what a 7 year old wants today, if properly motivated, he 98% wont go for in 6 months....
Dads got until puberty to fix this... just sayin. Every 7 year old can be bought by a cunning parent.... just sayin..

 

[Maser]

Failed parent. That's all that's needed to be said.

 

[QuickNDirty]

I very very very strongly disagree.... one blood child, 6 step children, and 10 grandchildren later....
The seven year old is waaaayyyyy smarter than most people think. And they are little knowledge sponges, feed them the knowledge they seek, and meet their emotional needs, and while the teacher is an influence, the family "can" and should own the child.....
ymmv based on the time you choose to invest. Yes, there are a few losers and there are a few born stupid, but, it does not have to be

Hell, I have conversations with my 3 year old and I pretty much talk to him like he was a real person. He seems to get most things. Doesn't always like them and will throw a fit sometimes, but for the most part he continues to surprise me with his ability to 'get it'.

 

[pmclaine]

These are my kids .22s that I just did over a few months ago....

Winchesters no less.

My kids are indifferent to guns yet.........

we are having a big problem now with my son playing Fortnite.

Its a shooting/building game.

I hear all the talk from these kids "I got a SCAR, I need a hunting rifle, There is an AR"

I ask them what enjoyment they get out of these games on TV. I actually go to the range and shoot these rifles you guys only pretend about.

The whole culture is different.

Kids dont have Rat Patrol, GunSmoke, Bonananza the saturday afternoon filled with WWII movies.

My kids love going to the club especially my daughter but they dont have the "desire" for it like I did.

Its kind of tough when you cnat just say bring your friends along.

In my eastern city area Im not sure how these liberal parents would react.

My kids wont be part of the problem.

Ill educate them other wise.

and Ill try to educate a firend or two along the way.

My wife and I were not willing to breed in order to increase the numbers of Americans but Ill do my best to try and pass it on to others.

 

[DannC]

I am 69 years old and will not be around when the worst of what we are seeing is the dominate social/political norm. Kids are influenced by what other kids do. Most of the members of our club have children and grandchildren as our average age is 55-65. We don't have them participating in our matches and I have seen only a few at the range with their parents.
I am childless by choice but have a stepson and stepdaughter. My grandchildren knew of my passion for shooting and guns. I was not permitted to take them to the range by their parents. They are over 25 years old and have no interest in firearms, even for self protection.
Even though there are more guns being sold today than ever in our history who are buying them? Not by young adults in any great number.
My pessimism is influenced by my exposure to what I have personally experienced. We only need to look back 20 years to see what anti smoking zealots have accomplished to see where our gun rights are headed. I hope that I am wrong.
I don't drink any more but I am going to go fire up a good cigar just to piss someone off since I cannot wave my guns around for all to see.

 

[Mullhead]

Start them early and take them often.

 

[Geno C.]

My youngest is 6. Loves shooting! My 11 year old shoots but has lost a little interest. We live in a small town of about 2k in central WI. We have run into a couple anti gun teachers with my oldest. The old superintendent was a friend of mine. (Just retired) I have made it a point to straighten out the problem teachers by physically showing up in class and explaining to them that it is not their place to discuss gun ownership or use in class. I give them a warning. So far I have not had to make a follow up visit.

In my little neighborhood there are 4 families with kindergarteners. Now first graders. They are all friends of mine now and they all know I'm "the gun guy". I don't think any of the wives are anti gun, most of the dads are not anti gun but not really gun people. They all have an open invitation to come shoot with us any time. One guy brought his 2 daughters out and they all had a blast. He's gun shopping for his girls this summer.

Let this guy know that he needs to be the dad a put an end to the teacher influencing his kid. There's no harm in letting your kid know his teacher in a moron.

 

[Maser]

we are having a big problem now with my son playing Fortnite.

Its a shooting/building game.

I hear all the talk from these kids "I got a SCAR, I need a hunting rifle, There is an AR"

I ask them what enjoyment they get out of these games on TV. I actually go to the range and shoot these rifles you guys only pretend about.

The whole culture is different.

As long as they're not looking up to Pewdiepie or Markiplier as role models, then they're good to go with their enjoyment of gaming!

 

[flyer]

Over 20 years ago, the 16 year old came in.... (She was seeing one absolute piece of loser shit !)..
She said, "I'm pregnant."
I said, "Ok"
She adopted a kind of questioning look.
She said, "I don't know what I'm gonna do."
I said, "Why don't you pick out some names ?"
Blew her mind.....

Today my 20 year old grand-daughter is real close to being my best bud.....

I could have really f'd that up when 16 came in and said.....
The 7 year olds dad has a wonderful opportunity here to make a difference in two lives... and down the road, perhaps three.
You play the hand life deals you, and sometimes you need to keep a real poker face, just sayin...

FWIW, I haven't met a 7 year old I couldn't bribe with a trip to Disney world, 6 flags, the beach, the fair, trip to their favorite meal, or in one case, play station game sales store, and a cheap ass drone... and in a few months have the 7 year old happily shooting the gun... just sayin.... what a 7 year old wants today, if properly motivated, he 98% wont go for in 6 months....
Dads got until puberty to fix this... just sayin. Every 7 year old can be bought by a cunning parent.... just sayin..

Are you suggesting abortion?

That's a little extreme at seven years old but if it improves the generation I guess you've got to do what you've got to do.

 

[ZEROGUY]

So who exactly was the enemy?

I don't happen to think an anecdotal case of a 2nd grader saying "guns are bad" is really an indicator of anything.

I love how every generation acts like the next one is totally messed up and going to doom society, as if their generation is absolved of all their poor decisions.

 

[j-huskey]

@flyer
Suggesting abortion ? No. Not sure where you came up with that.

Ethnic cleansing of 7 year olds is extreme, and I didnt suggest that either.

 

[Maser]

I love how every generation acts like the next one is totally messed up and going to doom society, as if their generation is absolved of all their poor decisions.

Every generation thinks their generation is perfect.

 

[DannC]

The enemy are the teachers/administrators who are responsible for the anti gun sentiments they are instilling in our youth. I don't think that I am being an alarmist, just a realistic look at our future. Antifa also comes to mind.
This comes from a seven year old from at least one pro gun, law enforcement parent. Who does not want to go shooting with his dad because of the fear he will not be liked by his classmates.

 

[TripleBull]

The seven year old is waaaayyyyy smarter than most people think.

Exactly. You do need to let kids enjoy their youth, buy my mantra for our kids from birth is that they were each one full human being and they always deserve to hear the truth from their parents. You can't fear the difficult topics but you can take the time to work out the discussion ahead of time to have it clear in your mind.

Every generation thinks their generation is perfect.

No way. I'm a boomer and we fucked up all kinds of shit. Wrote some of the best music though.

 

[DannC]

PS: to my previous post. How do you think California got the votes to make them so anti gun, socialist and bankrupt society?

 

[Geno C.]

@flyer
Suggesting abortion ? No. Not sure where you came up with that.

Ethnic cleansing of 7 year olds is extreme, and I didnt suggest that either.

Guy is one of those morons. He's can't tell if his ass is punched or bored.

 

[RNWRKNP]

The wife and I couldn’t be more opposite if you sat down and planned it. She was against guns and wanted my boys to have nothing to do with them. I could do my hunting and shooting thing but they would not......and if you think that’s how the story ended you haven’t been paying attention? I let her have her way and demonstrated what a reposible gunowner looked like until the boys come of age to start learning. She was a little surprised when I came home with the first youth shot gun. Of course she started right in with my boys aren’t going to be involved speech and I let her get it out of her system. When she was done I let her know that she had a choice......I could teach them about guns and gun safety or our boys could learn from their friends with a most likely deadly outcome without an adult around. Gave her a kiss and said choose......closed the deal with besides, you wouldn’t really denie them going bird hunting with grandpa next week would you????
That young sherif may be in the same situation and one doesn’t have to be an asshole to their wife to get their way? Show them what a responsible gun owner looks like, treat them with respect, provide them with logical reasoning, and invite your dad to go bird hunting?

 

[THEIS]

Hi,

Shit...when did 7 year olds get a choice in what they were or were not going to do?

Sincerely,
Theis

 

[QuickNDirty]

The enemy are the teachers/administrators who are responsible for the anti gun sentiments they are instilling in our youth. I don't think that I am being an alarmist, just a realistic look at our future. Antifa also comes to mind.
This comes from a seven year old from at least one pro gun, law enforcement parent. Who does not want to go shooting with his dad because of the fear he will not be liked by his classmates.

Parenting failure. People that discount people based on silly shit like that don't matter. The fact that a kid is worried about what other people think of him is a clear indicator that some core American beliefs failed to transfer. Fortunately, there's still time to correct that. I'd tell the father to sack up and have the come to jesus talk about how some people are worthless goddamn mouth breathers and making decisions based on whether or not they will like you is a sure path to failure.

 

[pmclaine]

As long as they're not looking up to Pewdiepie or Markiplier as role models, then they're good to go with their enjoyment of gaming!

Gaming sucks.

When it's 80 degrees out and there are three 11 year old boys face timing while playing Fortnite in the house that's a shame.

 

[The King]

While this may be a parenting failure, really the only option is home schooling these days.

And for those folks who think that a bit more parenting can overcome 8 hours of day in a liberal communist indoctrination center, with every single friend you have other than dad saying "fuck guns"...you probably haven't been in the parenting game in the last 5 years.

Modern schools are specificially designed to destroy the influence of even strongly involved parents with opinions that don't match the groupthink.

 

[W54/XM-388]

In this day, you may have to teach your kids some of the old school ways such as the good old cold war saying "Red like a radish" (when having to be among communists).
Not every thought that comes into their head should go out for the public, the teachers are your enemies that you have to pretend to listen to.
Kids can learn that very easily and actually enjoy it, if you teach them the right way.

Us against the world is one of the most powerful deeply rooted ideas in the human mind... Get your kids in on it & it will do wonders towards keeping their minds strong.

 

[Maser]

Gaming sucks.

When it's 80 degrees out and there are three 11 year old boys face timing while playing Fortnite in the house that's a shame.

What's more of a shame is when you drive by or take your kids to the park and you see all the play equipment not being used and all the kids there are all under a shade tree all on their phones or tablets. As a parent of kids who are gamers I can say there's nothing wrong with kids playing video games as long as it's not used as a babysitter or allowed to run their entire lives.

 

[QuickNDirty]

What's more of a shame is when you drive by or take your kids to the park and you see all the play equipment not being used and all the kids there are all under a shade tree all on their phones or tablets. As a parent of kids who are gamers I can say there's nothing wrong with kids playing video games as long as it's not used as a babysitter or allowed to run their entire lives.

You reproduced??!! Fuck...

 

[TripleBull]

Our older kid was 18 months old when he started asking very specific questions about human reproduction. It started with "Where did I come from?"

I was not ready for that coming out of the mouth of an 18 month old, but I gave relatively minimal but honest answers. By age 3, he'd figured out that male and female anatomy were very different, the mom carried the baby, etc. In kindergarden, he drew an anatomically correct sequence for his classmates that thought a stork was involved. The teacher chewed my ass and I told her that any time he was factually incorrect, I'd intervene.

I ended up in the principal's office - it wasn't the first time - and he couldn't handcuff me. I asked him if he was going to arrest me for letting my kid tell the truth. After that, I was That Guy...

With respect to guns, my kids couldn't wait to graduate up the caliber path and they handled all of the safety instruction with a serious attitude.

Do you think gun safety was their idea?

 

[deersniper]

First person shooter games are our best friend for getting new people into guns. I can't tell you how many people i know that are into guns mainly due to using them in a game.

 

[jrassy]

You reproduced??!! Fuck...

That ain’t right, a different age but he’s got his head screwed on right for the most part, seems to be teaching his kids good things. Pretty sure it was a flippant remark from you but .... I love you man and no not in that intense please stop way

 

[Va_Gentleman]

This is her at 7.... First buck at 178 Yards with a 308. Had to buy that Axiom just so her L.O.P. would fit.

 

[Maser]

You reproduced??!! Fuck...

Damn right I did! The world is too big for only one of me!

 

[pmclaine]

What's more of a shame is when you drive by or take your kids to the park and you see all the play equipment not being used and all the kids there are all under a shade tree all on their phones or tablets. As a parent of kids who are gamers I can say there's nothing wrong with kids playing video games as long as it's not used as a babysitter or allowed to run their entire lives.

There is a ton of harm caused by vid games in my opinion.

and agreed there are parents that allow it to become a babysitting tool.

 

[MtnCreek]

My kids have never known a time when firearms weren’t a part of life. Guns have always been around. It’s normal to them.

 

[Maser]

There is a ton of harm caused by vid games in my opinion.

Are you painting with a broad brush about video games in general or just the modern generation? Video games have been around since the late 1960s. The first home video game console was released in 1972.

 

[pmclaine]

Are you painting with a broad brush about video games in general or just the modern generation? Video games have been around since the early 1970s. The first home video game console was released in 1972.

Not with a broad brush.

Im not talking Grand Theft Auto. I dont think many kids are exposed to that if they come from any sort of a functioning family.

There are some games that could be beneficial.

I have no doubt they could be an effective indoctrination tool. Im sure its been tried but most kids are savvy enough to be bored by the message "Suzy saves the polar bear from global warming".

Gaming/electronics/social media certainly has an addictive element to it - my post count as a disgusting example.

My son certainly exhibits "withdrawal" when we make him get off the XBox. Whatever, we enforce limits. The power cord has come to work with me a few times and Ill usually get a call at the end of the day from a contrite little person asking when will I be home.

I had less issues when my kid was playing the basketball or football video games.

Fortnite has been different.

Im looking at an 11 year old standing there agitated by being "into" the game.

Listening to the conversation they have over the phones is disturbing "Shoot him", "Kill him".

I guess we did same as kids playing guns outdoors. Kind of what I remember though is every time I play shot a friend with my toy guns running outside the reply was always "No you only got me in the shoulder" and the game went on.

With the first person shooter games it is more so the "training" it gives with no repercussions for violating societal norms and no instruction on safe firearms handling.

Fortnite not so much an issue as its kind of like electronic paintball where its a free fire zone and kids just blast away.

Id like to see some repercussions for failures - lock the kid out of the game for 2 hours if he shoots an inelligible target or something.

The antis have declared that speaking of guns is taboo and now all most kids get for exposure is what they get from gaming.

Why is it a mystery that when a kid does get access to a gun they mishandle and abuse it?

Their only training has been what they did in gaming.

I think Col David Grossman has some good theories on how gaming "trains" and what can result because gaming does not incorporate any education on "law of war" or "general law".

https://www.killology.com/

Couple of his books

Assassination Generation: Video Games, Aggression, and the Psychology of Killing by Grossman, D. and Kristine Paulsen, with Katie Miserany

Stop Teaching Our Kids To Kill, Revised and Updated Edition: A Call to Action Against TV, Movie & Video Game Violence by Grossman, D. and Gloria Degaetano

 

[Maggot]

I am 69 years old and will not be around when the worst of what we are seeing is the dominate social/political norm. Kids are influenced by what other kids do. Most of the members of our club have children and grandchildren as our average age is 55-65. We don't have them participating in our matches and I have seen only a few at the range with their parents.
I am childless by choice but have a stepson and stepdaughter. My grandchildren knew of my passion for shooting and guns. I was not permitted to take them to the range by their parents. They are over 25 years old and have no interest in firearms, even for self protection.
Even though there are more guns being sold today than ever in our history who are buying them? Not by young adults in any great number.
My pessimism is influenced by my exposure to what I have personally experienced. We only need to look back 20 years to see what anti smoking zealots have accomplished to see where our gun rights are headed. I hope that I am wrong.
I don't drink any more but I am going to go fire up a good cigar just to piss someone off since I cannot wave my guns around for all to see.

At 68 I wont be around to see (much) of the worst of it either. Kind of glad of that.

What we need to face is the simple fact that 'Things change". When we were growing up it was still largely rural...guns were part of our culture. I didnt even think of them as for protection...they were for hunting and sport. Now its changed and is largely urban, less places to shoot.

I see the same thing in my other major hobby, high end audio. I grew up in the 'Golden Age' of audio. Vacuum tubes and horn speakers would put the music in your living room. They competed to build and to be 'The Best". Now its all built to a price point, and kids want ear buds or what ever the fuck they listen to now.

Things Change. As John Wyndham put it in the Chrysalids::

“But life is change, that is how it differs from the rocks, change is its very nature… "

You cannot stop it, all you can do is:

"Improvise, adapt, overcome."

 

[W54/XM-388]

I see the same thing in my other major hobby, high end audio. I grew up in the 'Golden Age' of audio. Vacuum tubes and horn speakers would put the music in your living room. They competed to build and to be 'The Best". Now its all built to a price point, and kids want ear buds or what ever the fuck they listen to now.

The sad part about that is how little they understand about how "full" music can sound when you are listening to music from something other than a highly compressed lossy streaming over earbuds or a phone speaker.

I regularly play music from CDs through just a simple halfway okay set of low end stereo speakers and the young folks are rather amazed at how different the music sounds and how much "more" is in the music.

Funny how so much "new and high tech" is not actually all that better.
(I have a passionate hatred for lossy compression, low bitrates and artifacting).

 

[Maggot]

The sad part about that is how little they understand about how "full" music can sound when you are listening to music from something other than a highly compressed lossy streaming over earbuds or a phone speaker.

I regularly play music from CDs through just a simple halfway okay set of low end stereo speakers and the young folks are rather amazed at how different the music sounds and how much "more" is in the music.

Funny how so much "new and high tech" is not actually all that better.
(I have a passionate hatred for lossy compression, low bitrates and artifacting).

I think you'd enjoy my system. No CD player, all vinyl and vacuum tube.

 

[W54/XM-388]

Optical pickups on the turntables or physical contact?