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I have pudding face!!!

DeauxJoe

DeauxJoe

Daisy Picker
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Full Member
Minuteman
Sep 15, 2011
632
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Thibodaux, La
#1
Lol took the TRG 42 to the range today and loved it!!! .338 is a commanding round. Didn't get great groups today but shot cheap ammo and spent 15 of those rounds zeroing the scope. I shot 22 rounds out it today ran some patches through the barrel between every round. Tomorrow I will go to cleaning between every five rounds. (this is how I was instructed to break in the barrel). The question to you guys is what cleaning process should I go through tonight? Or is ok till tomorrow? When should I clean it? Any advice on my trek down this path?
 
#4
Re: I have pudding face!!!

I know you guys are going to yell at me but I always try using the search method and I never get what I'm looking for. So any detail would be awesome.
 
#8
Re: I have pudding face!!!

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Badshot308</div><div class="ubbcode-body">excessive cleaning can do more harm than good. </div></div>

<span style="font-weight: bold">[Improper] cleaning can do more harm than good.</span>

I've cleaned this barrel hundreds of times; is not harmed whatsoever.
howa4Bore.jpg


Whereas this barrel had a potentially "harm[ful]" ring of carbon due to "improper cleaning."
3030throat.jpg


<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The question to you guys is what cleaning process should I go through tonight? </div></div>

During the break-in you are supposed to clean thoroughly, all copper and powder fouling at specific intervals. So clean thoroughly.

When I broke my last rifle in, I was done after the 20th shot of my Audette ladder test. It copper fouled 10% of what it had been.
 
#9
Re: I have pudding face!!!

Barrel break in is a waste of time, ammo, and cleaning supplies. Every time you run a brush through the barrel your roughing up the surface and doing the exact opposite of breaking in. The rounds passing down the barrel smooths it out and breaks it in, not the cleaning. Shoot it and have fun then do a initial cleaning after 100-150 rounds. After that clean only when accuracy degrades. I do either dry patch or run a dry bore snake through my barrels after each range session.
 
#12
Re: I have pudding face!!!

I believe that nothing should go down the bore other than a bullet and a cloth patch. I use foam bore cleaner when needed (not often unless corrosive ammo is used) and only use Otis cable pull through cleaning method. Wish they would put a coating on the brass ends as I don't even like them touching the bore.

But its your rifle and abuse it how you feel. If you feel good that the bore is clean and you have to take how ever many shots to get the rifle back to shooting good after cleaning, more power to you. If you want to change the motor oil in your car just because its not clear anymore, do it...It keeps the economy going.

BoreSnake???
Do you clean the boresnake between using it? Doesn't running a used boresnake through you barrel just transfer dirt from bore to bore?
 
#14
Re: I have pudding face!!!

15 rounds to zero the scope??? OK, next time put the rifle on the bench or other stable platform, pull the bolt out and point the barrel at a target about 100 yards away. Now, adjust your scope to the same spot the barrel is pointed at, if it is done right you should be on paper.
It's a hammer forged barrel, I think you are done with the break in process. Clean it after 50 rounds or so.
Enjoy.
SScott
Full break in procedure. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TRRahHX9Zkg
 
#15
Re: I have pudding face!!!

for you guys that say to only clean every 100-150 rounds, what do you do after each range trip where you put under the 100. do you do any cleaning? I'm used to cleaning my other guns after each range trip, just got into long range rifles.
 
#18
Re: I have pudding face!!!

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Sunnyside Scott</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Full break in procedure. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TRRahHX9Zkg </div></div>

That cant be correct, this is the correct way.
Larrys way $$$
Larry would not steer you wrong...Just to sell you more cleaning supplies would he??? And make sure you pull the dirty brush, jag and patch back through the clean bore.

Someone needs to do a cartoon like this one Every question and answer on a gun forum caution, bad language..
 
#19
Re: I have pudding face!!!

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: AWZ1287</div><div class="ubbcode-body">for you guys that say to only clean every 100-150 rounds, what do you do after each range trip where you put under the 100. do you do any cleaning? I'm used to cleaning my other guns after each range trip, just got into long range rifles. </div></div>

We put it back in our case until next time. The only time it would be cleaned otherwise is if water touches the bore.

Last time I cleaned after 200 rounds, only because it was my first time going a really long time without cleaning and I felt like I should. 10 foul shots later, I was at the same accuracy as before cleaning.... A.K.A waste of my time and $$.
 
#22
Re: I have pudding face!!!

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">@Win_94, what kind of improper cleaning causes that ring of carbon?</div></div>

I, like other members in this thread, was told that a brass brush would somehow damage my barrel. Therefore I only used cleaning solvents and patches; whereas, it caused a ring of carbon to build-up near the throat.

Since then, I use a brass brush in all my firearms.
 
#23
Re: I have pudding face!!!

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">They were very tight groups. How did they do that? Do they "break them in" before shooting the test target? I think NOT.</div></div>

You seem to be under the assumption that there was a claim that "very tight groups" are a product of the break-in procedure and only obtainable through a break-in procedure.

No one has made that claim nor anything close...

Also, Cooper uses hand lapped barrels, there is no need for a break-in procedure.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Every time you run a brush through the barrel your roughing up the surface and doing the exact opposite of breaking in.</div></div>
<span style="font-weight: bold">Shilen, Inc.</span> introduced a break-in procedure mostly because customers seemed to think that we should have one. By and large, we don't think breaking-in a new barrel is a big deal. All our stainless steel barrels have been hand lapped as part of their production, as well as any chrome moly barrel we install. <span style="font-weight: bold">Hand lapping a barrel polishes the interior of the barrel and eliminates sharp edges or burrs that could cause jacket deformity. This, in fact, is what you are doing when you break-in a new barrel through firing and cleaning.</span>
 
#24
Re: I have pudding face!!!

Then what is the "break in" for? Longevity?


<<< BREAKING IN A RIFLE BARREL

Machining marks which can fill up with copper when the gun is shot are left during the manufacture of rifle barrels. The purpose of breaking in a rifle barrel is to polish or peen these imperfections smooth with the barrel. When a bullet is fired over these marks, it tends to polish the machining marks, but at the same time, copper is caught in the ridges. If you continue to fire bullets down the barrel without cleaning, the barrel will continue to foul (collect copper). Fouled barrels do not shoot as well as clean barrels. With that in mind, here is a recommended method for breaking in a barrel.>>>

Is it to make the barrel foul less?


 
#25
Re: I have pudding face!!!

just shoot it don't worry about brake in

shoot till you notice a drop in accuracy then clean it .

I do clean bolt race way's and might give it a wipe down from time to time but as for actual barrel cleaning no do it when it need's it no more .
 
#26
Re: I have pudding face!!!

^ strong ninja edit there


if you are that worried about it , shoot you stock barrel out and get a good hand lapped after market barrel fitted I am using lilja at the mo on my 308 and my 22lr they are very good .

just go shoot your rifle and don't worry about brake in
 
#27
Re: I have pudding face!!!

I don't break in barrels but want to know now "why" people do it and what they think it does if its not to make their barrel shoot more accurate?

I think I have this. People 'break in' barrels that are not 'hand lapped' and hand lapping is to remove imperfections so the rifle shoot more accurate. So then the 'break in" is to make it shot more accurate, right?

So how does one know if a factory barrel needs 'breaking in' and how do they know when its all 'broke in'?
If there is a need to break in a factory barrel, then you must use some type of tool (bore scope) to know when you have it properly done.
As 99.999% of people dont have a way to check if the "lapping affect' of shooing/clean 'break in' then I would think its a waist of time as you can't tell if and or when its done being broke in.

So my conclusion is, If you want to 'break in' a non lapped barrel and you don't have a bore scope, take the rifle to a trained 'break in' gun smith that will shoot, clean, check with bore scope, shoot, clean, check with bore scope over and over again till all the imperfections have been shot out.

Sorry if I dragged this on so long but I didn't know what the 'break in' process was for. In all my searching all I found was 'its good' 'its bad' but hardly a reason why its being done.
 
#28
Re: I have pudding face!!!

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: landtoy80</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Is it to make the barrel foul less?</div></div>

Yes. If the result is a 90% reduction in copper fouling, (and it is;) that would extend your shot count considerably, before needing routine cleaning.

I would think those that believe in conservative cleaning would see benefit in it.
 
#29
Re: I have pudding face!!!

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: landtoy80</div><div class="ubbcode-body">So my conclusion is, If you want to 'break in' a non lapped barrel and you don't have a bore scope, take the rifle to a trained 'break in' gun smith that will shoot, clean, check with bore scope, shoot, clean, check with bore scope over and over again till all the imperfections have been shot out.</div></div>

Why does if have to be that complicated?
You can judge the effect by comparing copper fouling on new a patch compared to an old one. It is that easy.

I cleaned my rifle bore thoroughly for 20 shots. Done.

The barrel copper fouled so much less, the effect of the break-in was undeniable.
 
#30
Re: I have pudding face!!!

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Win_94</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: landtoy80</div><div class="ubbcode-body">So my conclusion is, If you want to 'break in' a non lapped barrel and you don't have a bore scope, take the rifle to a trained 'break in' gun smith that will shoot, clean, check with bore scope, shoot, clean, check with bore scope over and over again till all the imperfections have been shot out.</div></div>

Why does if have to be that complicated?
You can judge the effect by comparing copper fouling on new a patch compared to an old one. It is that easy.

I cleaned my rifle bore thoroughly for 20 shots. Done.

<span style="color: #FF0000">The barrel copper fouled so much less</span>, the effect of the break-in was undeniable. </div></div>
So much less than what? Unless you have two barrels that are exactly the same and compare them at the same time, using the same ammo, I don't see how you would know. Personally, I've seen no appreciable difference in any aspect of a barrel's performance or ease of cleaning between a broken-in barrel and one that was not... And after reading Gale McMillan's write up about it, I'll NEVER waste time and ammo and barrel life breaking in a barrel
 
#31
Re: I have pudding face!!!

Win94, pretty much everybody here knows barrel break in procedures are BS and your not going to convince people otherwise.

Personally I find my stick shoots better if I get the angle of the dangle consistent with the heat of the meat.
 
#32
Re: I have pudding face!!!

When I get a new rifle in I clean it fairly thoroughly just to make sure all of the cutting fluid, small chips, etc are out of the chamber and bore. I do this when I am checking over the rifle when I first get it in. I also check my COAL to the lands when I get it and note it in my data book so I can keep track of throat erosion and barrel wear. I will usually go zero the gun and then clean it for the first time when I get home just to see how much fouling, etc it picked up. After load development I usually clean it again to check for cold bore shift. After that I usually shoot it until it appears that accuracy is falling off or every 100-250 rounds.

I honestly think cleaning the rifle first prior to shooting it is more important than any sort of break in "procedure".

BTW - If I ever do run a brush through a bore its a nylon Iosso Eliminator brush. I also always use a bore guide. The Lucas bore guides do a great job of keeping everything out of the chamber and keep solvents out of the action.
 
#33
Re: I have pudding face!!!

I've used the barrel break-in method on a couple rifles but realized that it sucked spending most of the afternoon at the range and barely getting 10 rounds off. Not anymore. If you'd rather spend your time cleaning versus shooting then by all means break it in and enjoy every last aggravating minute of it.
 
#34
Re: I have pudding face!!!

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">So much less than what? </div></div>

Then it did in the first place.
"It copper fouled 10% of what it had been."
"90% reduction in copper fouling"

You need to read the posts, <span style="font-weight: bold">then</span> respond.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I don't see how you would know.</div></div>
You have this "quoted."
"You can judge the effect by comparing copper fouling on new a patch compared to an old one. It is that easy."
Odd you have contention with my comment when I responded to someone who drew their "conclusion" from ''its good' 'its bad' but hardly a reason why'.
...
Telling.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">your not going to convince people otherwise.</div></div>
Questions I see addressed specifically to me will be answered.; those reading can do with the information what they will.
 
#36
Re: I have pudding face!!!

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: landtoy80</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I don't break in barrels but want to know now "why" people do it and what they think it does if its not to make their barrel shoot more accurate?
</div></div>

People brake in their barrel because some old guy told some other guy 50yr's ago that you have to do it , 50yr's ago it was a valid part of tuning a rifle however with todays macheaning it is not needed and if it was I would send the rifle back as there is clearly a QC issue .


I just went and looked in my safe and there are currently 11 factor barrelled rifles in my safe none of witch have had a brake in and all shoot better than most shooter's can shoot , including me someday's .

As has been stated in this thread when you get a new firearm be it a pistol shotgun rifle you should clean and thoroughly inspect it prior to getting it to the range , I also usually clean it after it's first rang trip but after that not until I see accuracy drop off .
 
#37
Re: I have pudding face!!!

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Win_94</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">So much less than what? </div></div>

Then it did in the first place.
"It copper fouled 10% of what it had been."
"90% reduction in copper fouling"

You need to read the posts, <span style="font-weight: bold">then</span> respond.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I don't see how you would know.</div></div>
You have this "quoted."
"You can judge the effect by comparing copper fouling on new a patch compared to an old one. It is that easy."
Odd you have contention with my comment when I responded to someone who drew their "conclusion" from ''its good' 'its bad' but hardly a reason why'.
...
Telling.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">your not going to convince people otherwise.</div></div>
Questions I see addressed specifically to me will be answered.; those reading can do with the information what they will. </div></div>
I can see you're getting upset with everyone ganging-up on you and I'm sorry about that. I really wasn't trying to be an ass by questioning your comparison. I just don't see any plausible method to your very specific conclusions. Of course you can see differences from one patch to another. But now you've even put percentages to that difference. By what known method are you measuring the percentage difference in copper on a patch? Inquiring minds would like to know...
 
#38
Re: I have pudding face!!!

Just shoot it.

Run a patch with Hoppes and 2-3 dry patches every once in a while (or if exposed to rain/water), remove the brake and clean the crud off of the crown and you'll be fine.

accurate load (with a "milder" recoil)
250 scenar
lapua brass
whatever primer brand you prefer
87gr H4831
~2845fps

It'll save you a little powder when working up loads and shooting distances under 1400 yards.

This is an accuracy node for at least 4 TRG42's I know of. With H4831 once around 88.5gr you will start to feel a little more push into your shoulder. 89-90gr is a little more "surprising" lol.
 
#39
Re: I have pudding face!!!

first off, put the following link in your bookmarked sites; it is the Hide's Google search (very easy to use).
<http://www.google.com/cse/home?cx=010955838166721108978:qcbx5qqy10o&hl=en>

Second off, opinions are like assholes, yada, yada, yada...you'll find every answer in the book when it comes to shit like this: which round is better, .45 or 9...should I break my barrel in...etc, etc...do whatever makes you feel good when it comes to cleaning your rifles.
 
#40
Re: I have pudding face!!!

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I can see you're getting upset with everyone ganging-up on you</div></div>
What gave it away; the reasoned responses, or that I came with facts?
No one here is capable of "ganging-up on" me.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I just don't see any plausible method to your very specific conclusions.</div></div>
My "specific conclusion" was a conservative estimate; I believe the reduction in copper fouling was even greater.
 
#41
Re: I have pudding face!!!

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Win_94</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: landtoy80</div><div class="ubbcode-body">So my conclusion is, If you want to 'break in' a non lapped barrel and you don't have a bore scope, take the rifle to a trained 'break in' gun smith that will shoot, clean, check with bore scope, shoot, clean, check with bore scope over and over again till all the imperfections have been shot out.</div></div>

Why does if have to be that complicated?
You can judge the effect by comparing copper fouling on new a patch compared to an old one. It is that easy.

I cleaned my rifle bore thoroughly for 20 shots. Done.

The barrel copper fouled so much less, the effect of the break-in was undeniable.</div></div>

I guess I'm not sure when an opinion became fact.

You state a very specific measurement that you came up with, but no one is sure how you came up with that number. I want to make it clear that I am absolutley not trying to dog pile you. I think everyone is just curious as to how you came up with those specific measurements? If its your opinion just say its an opinion, but don't represent it as fact.

This discussion has been beat to death on here several times and guys that think it is beneficial to break in a rifle continue to do so. Guys that think its a waste of time don't do it. The two newest rifles I have both have bartlein barrels, both have never been "properly" broken in, neither of them have any sort of copper fouling build up. I run butch's bore shine through the barrel every few hundred rounds and I've yet to have a blue patch.

If I were you I'd just say that it is your opinion and leave it at that, at least before everyone starts thinking you're that know-it-all-jackass at the gun shop that we laugh about when you leave.

Also, there's this... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scientific_method
 
#42
Re: I have pudding face!!!

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I guess I'm not sure when an opinion became fact. </div></div>

Only an idiot would think I was stating my conservative estimate as a hard number fact. I'm talking about those facts you people conveniently ignore.

Obviously I didn't get a team of scientists to test the copper content of the patches; to act as if would need to do so is ridiculous!
 
#43
Re: I have pudding face!!!

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Win_94</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I can see you're getting upset with everyone ganging-up on you</div></div>
What gave it away; the reasoned responses, or that I came with facts?
No one here is capable of "ganging-up on" me.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I just don't see any plausible method to your very specific conclusions.</div></div>
My "specific conclusion" was a conservative estimate; I believe the reduction in copper fouling was even greater. </div></div>

Oh I'm sorry, I thought you were the one who said they presented facts. Oh wait, you were.
 
#44
Re: I have pudding face!!!

<<<When I get a new rifle in I clean it fairly thoroughly just to make sure all of the cutting fluid, small chips, etc are out of the chamber and bore.>>>

I think (I hope) every gun I have bought new had been shot at least once. Some come with the target they fired at. I assume that anything in the barrel would of been shot out. Most (if not all factory guns) of the guns I bought new came with a dirty bore.
 
#46
Re: I have pudding face!!!

Go to any reputable barrel manufactures website and they will have a barrel break in procedure. Follow the guild lines to the T. When I purchased my Remington SPS tactical, I followed Kriegers guild lines and the thing still shoots 1/2 MOA groups. I have also found Shilen break in procedures to be solid as well. Good Luck!
 
#47
Re: I have pudding face!!!

I don't think it matters I have read and read on the matter I know a lot of guys that shoot competitively and they all get the same results from 100 different ways. I am of the belief of shoot it till it looses accuracy and then clean it every time you get close to that round count. Never Never go to a match with a cold clean bore. unless you know where its going to hit on that cold clean bore. the guys that clean every time vs the guys that only clean every 200 rounds get the same barrel life. time and time again. clean it tonight like you normally would. It wont matter. I am not saying to abuse it. but my cold bore isn't that bad but my cold clean bore is out quit a bit. enough that I might not get my points if I forget to adjust on a cold bore target. but not enough to really matter if its not been cleaned.
 
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