The only thing that would kick it out of the runnings for me is that it's a bit heavy for what I'd like to get at.Ah, how about a Sako TRG-22?
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I need a recommendation for a better 308.
- Thread starter teddy12b
- Start date
It’s weird that someone will come in here and try to say that it’s “impossible” that his Remington rifle wasnt a 1/2 moa rifle, fully knowing the complete dogshit Remington was putting out as a company in the last few years.
Depends, I have quite a few different loads. Mostly Lapua brass, Berger or Nosler bullets, Varget, and Fed 210/210M or CCI 200 primers.
Only with the 5R MIlspec models...I've never seen a 5R model that wouldn't shoot out of the box, or with a very minimal amount of work.
But I agree, that regular Remingtons are hit-or-miss. And yes, their QC has been terrible the last 10+ years.
Im with you on the simple work but I find the measure of a quality rifle to be their accuracy with factory ammo. Not everyone is capable of the same level of results with hand loading, so throwing that in the mix complicates the conversation to a degree.
If we know that FGM or Berger Hybrid shoot exceptionally well for a majority of rifles, then why would one require extra effort, outside of just using proven quality factory ammo?
Why would one require extra effort? Because they're all man-made and all are slightly different, even if they're both made at the same time, back-to-back, on the same machines, by the same people. Manufactured items always have fluctuation in tolerances and variations in quality, that's why companies have quality control and quality & assessment employees. Sadly, most of the time, those people don't have much experience until they gain that experience, and even then, some are lazy, so they never really gain that "sharp-eye" level of expertise.
I dont consider reloading a beginner hobby by any means.
Its certainly "extra effort" to learn, then go through load development, buying a press, setting up your bench, figured out what brass, primers, powder etc etc vs. just buying a new rifle off the shelf and a box of ammo to go shoot it with. I load on a Mark 7 press, after loading on an XL 750 and a Lee, so I'm certainly not 'new' to that portion of it either.
You wouldnt call it extra effort because it is part of your existing process. We all know that ammo has to be bulk manufactured to looser tolerances for mass compatibility, but that doesnt change the fact that reloading is still extra work.
Its certainly "extra effort" to learn, then go through load development, buying a press, setting up your bench, figured out what brass, primers, powder etc etc vs. just buying a new rifle off the shelf and a box of ammo to go shoot it with. I load on a Mark 7 press, after loading on an XL 750 and a Lee, so I'm certainly not 'new' to that portion of it either.
You wouldnt call it extra effort because it is part of your existing process. We all know that ammo has to be bulk manufactured to looser tolerances for mass compatibility, but that doesnt change the fact that reloading is still extra work.
My reloads for that rifle had been with Sierra 168gr & 175gr matchkings. I never tried anything else and maybe that's my fault. Either way, it's too late for me to worry about that. The other components were lapua brass, fed match primers, and I don't recall the powder.
Reloading skills are not all equal. I'll be the first to say that I'm a novice reloader and this will be my 20th year. I can and have made very accurate ammo for different guns, but my old Rem 700 308 was a unicorn I just couldn't capture.
Reloading skills are not all equal. I'll be the first to say that I'm a novice reloader and this will be my 20th year. I can and have made very accurate ammo for different guns, but my old Rem 700 308 was a unicorn I just couldn't capture.
I am not sure my post is relevant as my experiences are several decades old as the attached photos indicate. But here goes anyway.
A Remington 700 action is what my rifles are based on and I ended up with two short actions and one long action with the latter being in 30.06 cal.
One of the short actions is a 40-XC but still in the 700 family.
At any rate all three of my rifles would and will shoot sub moa groups if some care is taken on my part during the reloading process. It does help if I am not all jacked up on 3-4 cups of coffee prior to me squeezing the trigger and my breathing is regulated.
The target that came with my 40-XC has two 5 shot groups on it. One is .46" and the other is .52" for an average of .49" which is right out of the box with no tweaking.
A Remington 700 action is what my rifles are based on and I ended up with two short actions and one long action with the latter being in 30.06 cal.
One of the short actions is a 40-XC but still in the 700 family.
At any rate all three of my rifles would and will shoot sub moa groups if some care is taken on my part during the reloading process. It does help if I am not all jacked up on 3-4 cups of coffee prior to me squeezing the trigger and my breathing is regulated.
The target that came with my 40-XC has two 5 shot groups on it. One is .46" and the other is .52" for an average of .49" which is right out of the box with no tweaking.
Attachments
That's one that has caught my eye in the past too. Those Bergara rifles all seem to be great shooters.
Right now, because of work and family commitments, i have only shot it at 100 yards. A friend also has one in 308 and got a lttle better than 1/2 MOA groups at 300 yards with factory ammo. I plan on trying mine out to 300 and maybe 600 yards this spring. Realize, the spring in Maine start in June.
I have a SIG 7.62 TI QD suppressor on mine. It is a Gen 1 version.
Mike
Start with a rifle layout and technical features that performs best at the most difficult sport; 500m metallic silhouette.
Shooting full bore silhouette will very quickly let every shooter know how important rifle "handling, balance and shootability" are for an app 9ibs rifle. Especially for the shots without support of bipods and other rests.
After that you can add the "tactical stuff".
Final test: 5 shots within 3"@300m/330 yds taken from 5 different shooting positions( one shot over bipod, shot over rucksack, one prone unsupported with sling, etc, etc) with 15-30 min between shots.
Shooting full bore silhouette will very quickly let every shooter know how important rifle "handling, balance and shootability" are for an app 9ibs rifle. Especially for the shots without support of bipods and other rests.
After that you can add the "tactical stuff".
Final test: 5 shots within 3"@300m/330 yds taken from 5 different shooting positions( one shot over bipod, shot over rucksack, one prone unsupported with sling, etc, etc) with 15-30 min between shots.
All,
I wanted to say thanks for all the help. I've decided on the Daniel Defense Delta 5 in 308, not the pro model. After looking at what's out there and seeing the specs I just kept coming back to that being the right rifle for me and what I intend to use it for. I'll post something once the dust is settled and I've got a decent round count on it hopefully with some handloads figured out along with chrono data. My hopes are that it'll be great and I'll want to get the 6.5 cm barrel also just to see how well that shoots. If the 308 version doesn't perform like I'm hoping, I'll stop right there.
Only problem with taking my time is that I seem to have missed the boat on some better pricing. Best pricing I've been seeing lately is $1730. If anyone knows of a better place than that you win the internet high five of the day.
I wanted to say thanks for all the help. I've decided on the Daniel Defense Delta 5 in 308, not the pro model. After looking at what's out there and seeing the specs I just kept coming back to that being the right rifle for me and what I intend to use it for. I'll post something once the dust is settled and I've got a decent round count on it hopefully with some handloads figured out along with chrono data. My hopes are that it'll be great and I'll want to get the 6.5 cm barrel also just to see how well that shoots. If the 308 version doesn't perform like I'm hoping, I'll stop right there.
Only problem with taking my time is that I seem to have missed the boat on some better pricing. Best pricing I've been seeing lately is $1730. If anyone knows of a better place than that you win the internet high five of the day.
After three pages on the hide the consensus was the daniel defense?
Im not sure Ive ever read a positive word about the delta5 that wasnt in a delta5 sales ad.
Im not sure Ive ever read a positive word about the delta5 that wasnt in a delta5 sales ad.
Watching this thread as I'm looking for a 308 trainer (really just an excuse to get another rifle). I'll be another vote for a Tikka. They're reliably accurate out of the box and plenty of aftermarket if you want to go that route. My own 6.5CM CTR has been nothing but a joy to use in the1.5yrs I've had it.
OP keep watching the PX here and you'll see some deals pop up eventually. I've seen a couple nice rifles pop up but they do seem to go rather quickly. Me personally, I'm looking for a SPR or Tikka or decently modified 700 with a 20" or less barrel for suppressor use.
OP keep watching the PX here and you'll see some deals pop up eventually. I've seen a couple nice rifles pop up but they do seem to go rather quickly. Me personally, I'm looking for a SPR or Tikka or decently modified 700 with a 20" or less barrel for suppressor use.
I've upgraded/sighted/scope mounted several DD Delta 5 rifles. They are good and I've found no issues that stand out. The Timney trigger is a good item, but not great. Replaced a couple with Triggertech Diamonds. The 419 hellfire is very good, the chassis, bolt and barrel are good. The built in 419 ARCA dovetail is really nice. The very adjustable stock is a good item. Other than some LRS snobbery opinions the rifle is not a bad item. Are there better bolt actions? yes - but overall for new LRS it isn't a bad choice, especially if you already like DD firearms.
If you legitimately had a 3/4" consistent rifle, accuracy is not justification for a different rifle. There's only a handful out there who can outshoot their gun.
Actually ended up getting a Bergara on the way. Was thinking I might want to stay with Tikka but I want to try something new.
Yup! So far loving my Ridgeback. Getting great results at .5 to .75 moa with factory stuff in my 6.5 creed.
I was all ready to buy the Delta 5, but all the better deals I saw on them in the $1400-$1500 range have dried up. Now that they're pushing $1,800 I'm reconsidering. The Tikka T3X CTR has always interested me too, but I don't want to mess with their proprietary mags. What's a good functional stock that would allow the use of AICS mags? Asking because I've got a pile of those mags, and like a healthy pile of mags for any rifle I own.
literally any stock/chassis
only a select few have a CTR bottom metal inlet (and they state it as such)
This is where I'm outside my wheelhouse, and the downside to being a neanderthal. I literally don't care at all whether the rifle is in a chasis or a regular stock so long as the gun shoots well. Honestly, when I ordered my GA Precision in 6.5 they asked what stock and I said so long as it shoots well to throw whatever they wanted on there.
For the purpose of this 308, if there was a lighter weight folding stock I'd prefer something like that. If the forend is flat for barracades, takes AICS mags, and is somewhat comfortable then I'd be happy with about anything. I just don't dabble in custom rifles enough to be familiar with what's good and what's not. Any recommendations would be greatly appreciated.
depends what you want to spend. folder gets expensive fast
Manners makes folding traditional stocks
besides that XLR Element 4.0 magnesium/MDT Hnt26 has light folding option chassis
other folding chassis are gonna be heavier
Manners makes folding traditional stocks
besides that XLR Element 4.0 magnesium/MDT Hnt26 has light folding option chassis
other folding chassis are gonna be heavier
If I were to prioritize the features I want I'd say #1 is keeping the total weigh of the rifle under 9#. #2 would be using AICS pattern mags including the magpuls. #3 folds. I can take or leave the folding part of the stock/chasis.
Several months ago, I put together another 308...trued up M700, pinned Tubb lug, Sako extractor, Trigger Tech, screwed on a Bartlein 5R 11.25" and had it bedded in an A5 I've had laying around for.....20 years. My first, and only group, with my Palma load, went into .247". I built a 308 simply because I have a TON of 308 reloading supplies, due to my time shooting Palma. Now, I'm wondering why I spent the $$$. Why? I have to many custom rigs in the safe......and just bought an O/U. Plus, I really luv shooting my custom 223....identical to the 308. Maybe its time to lighten the load in my safe.....
Magpul AICS dont work in a Tikka.
Original steel AICS works without issue. The feedlips of the magpul mags are too fat.
Just so you know.
pretty sure people sand down the feed lips to make them fit. not sure dont have a tikka anymore and wouldnt run magpul mags either
I was stumbling across that piece of information and was trying to read more about it. Ultimately, if I spend as much on a Tikka CTR and swap the stocks I would likely be just as well off looking for a bergara hmr pro and being done with it.
True!
But would one want sanded down mags in other rifles?
Im thinking, since he wanted the things he allready has to work, he needs to know that in this case, it does not. Not without mods any way.
confusing to pick a bergera over a tikka just so you can use plastic mags
i wouldnt use magpul mags. but if i really wanted to use ones i had for whatever reason i'd sand them to make them work
but i'd also just buy new mags. to me mags are like barrels. they have a shelf life
Never have handled a Bergara but know first hand that Tikkas are awesome.
Would go for a Tikka + KRG chassie of your choice. Its a proven combo.
I've seen a bergara pro shoot incredibly well and honestly I can't imagine a Tikka CTR being much better or worse either way. It's really more about just buying something out of the box and not have to mess around buying one gun, and then swapping the stock.
Admittedly I didn't read all the responses in here but......
My brother picked up a Bergara a couple years ago. I think they are real decent rifles for the money.
I don't know anything about their reputation, their custom service, the company as a whole or any of that stuff but it was a shooter. I think it was a bit less than $1500
My brother picked up a Bergara a couple years ago. I think they are real decent rifles for the money.
I don't know anything about their reputation, their custom service, the company as a whole or any of that stuff but it was a shooter. I think it was a bit less than $1500
Nice Delta 5 Pro with Vortex Razor, Stiener Mounts, Triggertech Diamond, Acc-tac Bipod, reworked bolt
Well... good news and bad news. Good news is that my wife and I had a really great talk about family finances and goals for the year. Bad news is that my budget for this project just got cut to $1,000 or less. I've got the scope and rings sitting on the bench so the last thing needed is the rifle. Honestly, for what I'm looking for I think I can still get it done, but it's going to take some time at the reloading bench and fine tuning. This is going to be a secondary rifle so it makes sense to save some $$.
With a 1K budget I'm looking at these:
Tikka T3X CTR (would just have to use their factory mags for competitions)
Bergara HMR (seem like it'd work out of the box)
Rem 700 SPS Tactical (would have to add a magpul stock for cheap way to get detachable mags)
Savage 110 tactical 20" (fits the specs, but does it shoot?)
Savage Magpul Hunter 18" (not much more $$ than the 110 tactical and the stock is probably better, maybe?)
With some of those it's flirting right at the line of being in the $1k budget, keeping in mind the little extras like a 20 MOA rail and mags. Any suggestions? I've never owned a TIkka, or a Bergara but have shot both. I've owned both a Rem 700 and Savage.
With a 1K budget I'm looking at these:
Tikka T3X CTR (would just have to use their factory mags for competitions)
Bergara HMR (seem like it'd work out of the box)
Rem 700 SPS Tactical (would have to add a magpul stock for cheap way to get detachable mags)
Savage 110 tactical 20" (fits the specs, but does it shoot?)
Savage Magpul Hunter 18" (not much more $$ than the 110 tactical and the stock is probably better, maybe?)
With some of those it's flirting right at the line of being in the $1k budget, keeping in mind the little extras like a 20 MOA rail and mags. Any suggestions? I've never owned a TIkka, or a Bergara but have shot both. I've owned both a Rem 700 and Savage.
