Range Report I need real M193/XM193 info

[sobrbiker883]

If you have real knowledge of the differences between MX193 and true M193 please contact me at [email protected]

I am looking for documentable spec difference, not common internet knowledge.

Thanks!

 

[JL]

Re: I need real M193/XM193 info

hmmm. No documents unfortunetely, but arent they same?

 

[sobrbiker883]

Re: I need real M193/XM193 info

if they were the same they'd both be M193....

Its my understanding that XM193 that is sold to LE agencies as training ammunition is lots destined for M193 that does not make the cut for velocity, pressure, or other spec variances.
I need to know if this is verifiably true (<span style="font-style: italic">with verification</span>), other than reference to lengthy arfcom threads full of internet parroting.

 

[sinister]

Re: I need real M193/XM193 info

Call ATK-Federal -- they're the makers.

 

[sobrbiker883]

Re: I need real M193/XM193 info

Federal claims XM193 is the same as M193, but I do know that much XM193 comes without sealant, therefore that spec isn't being adhered too. I doubt if anyone I can reach will go against their advertised claims.

 

[JL]

Re: I need real M193/XM193 info

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: sobrbiker883</div><div class="ubbcode-body">if they were the same they'd both be M193....
</div></div>

Yeah -but marketing departments can go mysterious ways...like Honda/Acura...

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: sobrbiker883</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Its my understanding that XM193 that is sold to LE agencies as training ammunition is lots destined for M193 that does not make the cut for velocity, pressure, or other spec variances.
</div></div>

According to my own tests with 556 -chambered carbine, velocity is same with M193- or well, I dont have M193 -but compared to M193 MV specs.

Also, XM193 seems to be really high quality (SD, ES), and damn accurate too.
So, I personally would easily believe that they are actually same.

 

[PLeighton]

Re: I need real M193/XM193 info

Here ya go:
http://www.thegunzone.com/556xm.html

Don't get caught up in the XM non XM debate.
In most cases it is just to get you to pay a higher price.

I've shot thousands of both types and have not seen any difference in quality or performace.

On the other hand, I have seen Winchester 5.56mm ammo with missing primers and solid flash holes.

 

[Grump]

Re: I need real M193/XM193 info

I love those guys at TGZ. Take this, for example:

"As TGZ is dedicated to the debunking of rumors and correcting that which propagates along the "gunshop grapevine" (and its Internet equivalent, AR15.com). . ."

Posting on the companion site forums, later bought by Fernando C and moved to the EoTac Forum site, I myself was corrected with very credible information regarding my own pre-Internet misinformation regarding early-issue M193 ammo powders.

With his school-marm style insistence on posters exercising "critical thinking", former EoTAc host Dean Speir ("formerly famous gunwriter") was a force to be reckoned with. Mostly out of habit, I lurk at EoTac but haven't really migrated over to Speir's new home.

It's secondary to you, but the citation to ATK's official response is one I deem reliable.

 

[Grump]

Re: I need real M193/XM193 info

Oh, BTW, I have read several firsthand reports claiming to have found no primer sealant in XM- designated ammo.

From a purely business practice speculation standpoint, it seems quite plausible to me that when the machines have entered overrun territory and there hasn't been enough spoilage to put fulfilling the entire amount of the order in doubt, it would make sense to shut off the primer sealant and/or case mouth sealant portion(s) of the production line. If the ammo meets commercial velocity and pressure standards, what other .mil requirements could be compromised to take it "out of spec"?

Mere analysis and speculation on my part, but certainly grounds to *inform* your questioning to ATK.

 

[PLeighton]

Re: I need real M193/XM193 info

http://le.atk.com/pdf/XM193.pdf

Product Specification Sheet
Centerfire Rifle
LOAD NUMBER: XM193
CALIBER: 5.56 mm, manufactured at the Lake City Army Ammunition Plant (LCAAP)
CASE: Brass (Copper Alloy No. 260)
BULLET: 55 gr. FMJ Boat-Tail
PRIMER: M41
Operating Range: (-40 degrees to +125 degrees F)
PRIMER SEALANT: Water resistant lacquer
CASE MOUTH SEALANT: Yes
Federal Cartridge Company
900 Ehlen Drive
Anoka, MN 55303
(800)322-2342, ext. 3822 or 2370
CASE KNURL: No
HEADSTAMP: Each loaded cartridge shall be headstamped with the manufacturer’s symbol and year of manufacture
Visible Iris
ACCURACY: 3-10round groups not to exceed 2.00” mean radius maximum average at 200 yards
Manufactured to Military Visual Standards
INSTRUMENTAL VELOCITY: 3165 +/- 40 FPS (78 feet from muzzle) using a 5.56 test barrel, 20” long
ENERGY: 1223 Ft-Lbs. at 78’
CHAMBER PRESSURE: Piezotronic maximum average per 10 rounds - 55000 PSI in 5.56 test barrel (case mouth location)
BULLET PULL: Minimum individual 35 lbs.
PROPELLANT DETECTION: 100% mechanical and/or electrical detection of propellant levels within the cartridge
VISUAL INSPECTION: 100% visual inspection of finished cartridges prior to packaging
WARNING: For use in standard 5.56 mm chambers. Do not use in non-standard 5.56 chambers.
PACKAGING: 20 Rounds per carton. 25 cartons per 500 round case. Revised 2-6-07
'EXPORT
_____________________________________________

Checked some XM193 I had at the house last night and just as this spec sheet says, it had a sealed primer and bullet.

 

[Smoke27]

Re: I need real M193/XM193 info

I just bought 2500 rounds of Federal XM193 to prep for an upcoming carbine course. Out of the first box of 100 rounds, I had 5 primers that blew out of the back of the case and lodged just forward of the locking lugs in the chamber, making feeding the next round impossible. All rounds are from lot# SMQ10H037-456. This represents a failure rate of 5% which is completely unacceptable. I fired Hornady TAP, Federal Premium, and Black Hills ammo through my S&W M&P 15T after the XM193, with no other problems.
Spent all day today trying to talk to a human at Federal and ATK with no success. I can tell you for certain, that, at the very least, the primers that popped out were not crimped in place.