I need some advice on a long range rifle

[hondaracer408]

I have been doing alot of research lately about 338.lapua and I want to stay under about 3k in the rifle. I have really been doing my homework on a sako trg 42 in a 338 lapua with the 27" barrel. What I it to be an all purpose rifle from varmints, targets, to large animals. I want to shoot 1000 yards. Does anyone have an opinion on this gun or recommend something else or caliber?. U currently use my kimber 8400 tactical 308 but it just seems to drop out way to fast after 500-600 yards. I reload all my own ammo. Thanks!

 

[BruceWayne]

Re: I need some advice on a long range rifle

I've been looking into the same thing but, I think I'm going with a custom bolt gun

 

[25MAN]

Re: I need some advice on a long range rifle

Why jump all they way to 338 to shoot steal and animals? I mean great caliber but why not also consider 300 win mag? bigger bullet selection, brass is cheaper, load it down to 150s or up to 225+ grain bullet and ballistically is a great caliber.

 

[Olivers_AR]

Re: I need some advice on a long range rifle

I would look at the reloading cost of .338 vs 300 WM. ,338 is getting there, but still pretty expensive.

 

[George63]

Re: I need some advice on a long range rifle

for an all purpose do everything rifle .338 is not what you want

this is from another post on the cost of use at the low end of the spectrom


once fired brass 1.50 -----------------.17
300 SMK ---------------------------.50
powder by the 8lb--------------------.25
primer-----------------------------.05
barrel wear-------------------------.33
total-------------------------------1.30 per squeeze

thats not counting load development or supplies that do not work out,

my guess is most folks by the time they buy it (shoot it very seldom) and sell it put out more than 5$ for each squeeze

 

[CrazyDonkey]

Re: I need some advice on a long range rifle

If all you want to shoot to is 1000yd you don't need anything close to a .338LM.

I would suggest something in 6.5 personally. A .260 with a 130VLD can probably take most animals in north america except for a bear or moose. With that same load you can hunt varmint, pigs, shoot paper/steel past 1000yds.

 

[hondaracer408]

Re: I need some advice on a long range rifle

Well once I do 1000 yards I'm sure I'll feel the itch to go farther!

 

[Wylie Custom]

Re: I need some advice on a long range rifle

With a price point of 3K you can easily built a full custom in most calibers that hit 1000 yards with no problem. 260, 308, 7mm WSM, 300 WSM, 7 mag or 300 win mag are all calibers I have had or might consider for this purpose.

 

[hondaracer408]

Re: I need some advice on a long range rifle

What kind of gun are you building for 3k?? Most actions I looked are in the 1500 dollar range. Or are u working a 700rem action?

 

[BigNoise]

Re: I need some advice on a long range rifle

For $1500 you could get a Stiller TAC 300 and a barrel installed.

 

[biscuit75camaro]

Re: I need some advice on a long range rifle

dude i jst had to have the 338 lapua. now i have only been able to take it to 1000 yds and it was awesome. i would say do it. mine is the rem 700 mlr in a 2.o ai chassis not really hunter friendly but i can deal with a little weight for a 1000yd hammer. that being said im building a 260 as soon as possible for under 1000yd domination.

 

[Wylie Custom]

Re: I need some advice on a long range rifle

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: j,miller</div><div class="ubbcode-body">What kind of gun are you building for 3k?? Most actions I looked are in the 1500 dollar range. Or are u working a 700rem action? </div></div>

Stiller Tac action $900
Stiller base $75.00
Barrel of your choice $300
Barrel the action $200
Cerakote barreled action $200
Trigger (Jewell) $200
Manners Stock Mini Chassis $900.00
Total: $2775
225 left over to add to scope fund.

 

[BigNoise]

Re: I need some advice on a long range rifle

BOOM...what Sledge Hammer said.

As for cartridge, if you reeeeally want a Lapua, get it. But going off your list of requirements, I would think a 7mm or .300 magnum would suit you better, and be easier on the wallet and shoulder.

 

[Ridgeback80]

Re: I need some advice on a long range rifle

what loads are you using? your current rifle is more then capable of get out to 1000yds ! what optic are you using also? i'm all for new/custom! have you looked @ savages .338 10/110 BA? also available in 300 mag

 

[wlwaldock]

Re: I need some advice on a long range rifle

lol looking at the .338 round cost calculation...no thankyou

 

[David S]

Re: I need some advice on a long range rifle

Hello, forum members,

I have a question/request that is somewhat similar to j,miller's and figured I should just ask it here instead of cluttering up the forum with more threads (though if folks feel like I'm thread-jacking, then (1) I honestly apologize in advance, and (2) mods are encouraged to move the post as they see fit).

I already have a pretty nice custom-built semi-automatic .308 in the AR-10 platform, but I'm seriously getting addicted to seeing repeat holes at 300 yards, so I'm looking to get a proper bolt-action .308. "Tacti-cool" neither impresses nor interests me; I am <span style="text-decoration: underline">bent</span> on maximizing accuracy, especially at medium and long ranges (~300-700 yards; I'll leave the 1000-yard headaches to those who enjoy them). I do also prefer the ease and comfort of a pistol grip and a fully adjustable stock (the one Maj. John Plaster designed is my current fave). Can anyone advise me as to which custom builders would be my best options? If public discussion of this is discouraged on the forum, please just PM me, but I'm hoping this is something for which public discussion is actually encouraged. There are so many gunsmiths out there making so many promises these days--it's hard to separate the hype and advertising from the straight truth. Just to be clear: I'm not interested in mere 0.5 MOA accuracy, as I get can get that off the shelf with a TRG or an AW. I want 0.1 or, failing that, 0.2, man. No joke. (Seriously--those repeat holes have me totally addicted.)

Has anyone any advice for where I might start looking?

Thanks much,

David Schenk

 

[Wylie Custom]

Re: I need some advice on a long range rifle

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I'm not interested in mere 0.5 MOA accuracy, as I get can get that off the shelf with a TRG or an AW. I want 0.1 or, failing that, 0.2, man. No joke.</div></div>

It sounds like you need a good bench rest gun in 6br or 30br calibers. The 0.1 and 0.2 groups you hunger for are possible sometimes with tactical rifles but are not the norm. Those groups are more represenative of the benchrest community.

 

[David S]

Re: I need some advice on a long range rifle

Hi, Sledge Hammer,

Ugh--I was afraid of that. See, I really have no interest in benchrest; I'm strictly interested in the lighter (tactical/hunting) rifles. Are there <span style="text-decoration: underline">no</span> gunsmiths out there who can reliably build guns capable of groups below 0.25 MOA in the .308 caliber, then? I mean, should I just get a Sako TRG, have it further accurized by a smith, and call it a day with that??

Yours,

David

 

[George63]

Re: I need some advice on a long range rifle

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: davidjschenk</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> I want 0.1 or, failing that, 0.2, man. No joke. (Seriously--those repeat holes have me totally addicted.)

Has anyone any advice for where I might start looking?

</div></div>

other than bench rest, a good place to start looking is with a reality check

might as well be looking for unicorns

 

[SRSDriver]

Re: I need some advice on a long range rifle

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: George63</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: davidjschenk</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> I want 0.1 or, failing that, 0.2, man. No joke. (Seriously--those repeat holes have me totally addicted.)

Has anyone any advice for where I might start looking?

</div></div>

other than bench rest, a good place to start looking is with a reality check

might as well be looking for unicorns </div></div>

This. Go for the unicorns. Sounds to me if you are interested in repeat holes, benchrest is your game.

 

[Pat M]

Re: I need some advice on a long range rifle

I have multiple .1moa rifles,,, and a herd of Unicorns that roam my backyard, and a fairy princess that blows me every morning while she makes me coffee.

 

[Wylie Custom]

Re: I need some advice on a long range rifle

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: davidjschenk</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Hi, Sledge Hammer,

Ugh--I was afraid of that. See, I really have no interest in benchrest; I'm strictly interested in the lighter (tactical/hunting) rifles. Are there <span style="text-decoration: underline">no</span> gunsmiths out there who can reliably build guns capable of groups below 0.25 MOA in the .308 caliber, then? I mean, should I just get a Sako TRG, have it further accurized by a smith, and call it a day with that??

Yours,

David </div></div>

Your major limiting factor in this is going to be the shooter. Then you have wind, your reloading capabilies, and everything else. Sure there are many capable smiths out there that will build a rifle that will shoot better than the shooter well ever be able too. Hunting bullets and tactical bullets are not designed to print .1 groups consistenly like a brenchrest bullet. They have different shapes. Although hunting/tactical bullets are very accurate they are built for a purpose (killing animals and people).

 

[David S]

Re: I need some advice on a long range rifle

Hi, everyone,

Ah, so the rumors I've always heard are true: it's just unattainable. Too bad, that. I guess I'll just save up, get a TRG, get really, really hysterical about hand-loading, and get it as close as I can get it. Thanks for the help!

Yours,

David

 

[Wylie Custom]

Re: I need some advice on a long range rifle

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: davidjschenk</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> I guess I'll just save up, get a TRG, get really, really hysterical about hand-loading, and get it as close as I can get it. </div></div>

Unless you are dead set on a TRG, there are many other options I hope you will explore that will cost the same and might be a better fit for you.

 

[David S]

Re: I need some advice on a long range rifle

Hi, Sledge Hammer,

Oh, I'm not dead set on a TRG; any rifle guaranteed capable of below-0.5 will hold my interest. I also am still a little more keen on the custom path, as I don't love the TRG's stock. You can count me very open to suggestions.

Yours,

David

 

[Wylie Custom]

Re: I need some advice on a long range rifle

Before we can give you some ideas on what has worked for us, it is would be nice to have an idea where you are at.

What is your rifle budget?
What is scope budget?
What range are you mostly shooting or plan to shoot?
Is this for hunting, bench, fun, tactical match so on?
Are you reloading?
Is there something you have shot that you really like or felt good to you?

 

[T2CH]

Re: I need some advice on a long range rifle

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: davidjschenk</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Hi, Sledge Hammer,

Ugh--I was afraid of that. See, I really have no interest in benchrest; I'm strictly interested in the lighter (tactical/hunting) rifles. <span style="color: #FF0000">Are there <span style="text-decoration: underline">no</span> gunsmiths out there who can reliably build guns capable of groups below 0.25 MOA in the .308 caliber, then?</span> I mean, should I just get a Sako TRG, have it further accurized by a smith, and call it a day with that??

Yours,

David </div></div>




Call Mike R. and talk to him
http://www.tacticaloperations.com/


I don't know if you will be able to get it in a AI stock but I'll bet if YOU can do it, the rifle can do it. With factory ammo to boot. But, you will spend more than 3 grand...

 

[SIE107]

Re: I need some advice on a long range rifle

Since you like the pistol grip, like your AR10, what I would do is get an Eliseo stock http://competitionshootingstuff.com/, because it is the easiest transition boltgun platform from an AR there is.. even uses the same grip.

 

[David S]

Re: I need some advice on a long range rifle

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Sledge Hammer</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Before we can give you some ideas on what has worked for us, it is would be nice to have an idea where you are at.

What is your rifle budget?
What is scope budget?</div></div>

Hi again, Sledge Hammer,

Put those two together, and I'd say anywhere up to $6k or $7k. 8 would be pushing it, but un/willingness all depends on <span style="text-decoration: underline">measurable</span> performance.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Sledge Hammer</div><div class="ubbcode-body">What range are you mostly shooting or plan to shoot?
Is this for hunting, bench, fun, tactical match so on?</div></div>

Right now it's almost all 300-yard shooting, though I intend to go for longer ones up through 600 yards once the spring semester is over and I can spend just days and days at the range.

I wouldn't call my motivation "fun" in this context, as that makes it sound far too lighthearted. Instead, how about we call it "serious sporting and personal satisfaction." It's an unhappy week that sees me at the range only on two days.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Sledge Hammer</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Are you reloading?</div></div>

Not yet, no. I'm far too new to this sport to brave those waters yet; I've been shooting seriously only since November. Now, since then I've been nigh on monomaniacal about it, but reloading really is one heck of a hardcore science. I am getting ready for it, though...

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Sledge Hammer</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Is there something you have shot that you really like or felt good to you?</div></div>

Yeah, just recently I had CRAZY fortune with 168-grain Hornady match factory ammunition with the AMax bullets. That's what got me hooked on the repeat holes at 300 yards. Over two days I got four groups in a row that were under an inch, and this was right on the heels of struggling like mad even to achieve MOA/3" with the great majority of other factory loads (that weekend freaked me out!). Needless to say, I now have several boxes of the match AMax rounds in my basement. My gunsmith is working on building a bunch of different loads for it that we can test, because the barrel is definitely very fussy. Even the Hornady Superformances don't seem to work <span style="font-style: italic">quite</span> so well (???).

Yours,

David

 

[David S]

Re: I need some advice on a long range rifle

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: T2CH</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Call Mike R. and talk to him
http://www.tacticaloperations.com/


I don't know if you will be able to get it in a AI stock but I'll bet if YOU can do it, the rifle can do it. With factory ammo to boot. But, you will spend more than 3 grand... </div></div>

Thanks, T2CH. I'll check him out.


<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: SIE107</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Since you like the pistol grip, like your AR10, what I would do is get an Eliseo stock http://competitionshootingstuff.com/, because it is the easiest transition boltgun platform from an AR there is.. even uses the same grip. </div></div>

Hey, thanks much, SIE107. That stock looks very nice to me; very nice indeed. Do you have one? If so, how has it performed for you? Is it fully adjustable so that the cheekpiece can be moved both vertically and horizontally?

Yours,

David

 

[hondaracer408]

Re: I need some advice on a long range rifle

My budget for the gun is 3k, I got my eye on a nightforce 8-32x56, I reload all my ammo, I love the way my mcmillian stock feels with the adjustable kindex creek rest I would like to stay under 6 for the entire project

 

[Jhnmdahl]

Re: I need some advice on a long range rifle

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: davidjschenk</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
I'm looking to get a proper bolt-action .308. ...

I do also prefer the ease and comfort of a pistol grip and a fully adjustable stock</div></div>

Based on what you've said, I'd consider an AI AX chassis, and talk to Robert Gradous about building something on a Surgeon 591 action.

For an additional fee, you can go out to Georgia and help build it yourself. Many have found this a very valuable way to learn about their rifle, as well as to do some load development, etc. with Robert before heading home. Check out:

http://www.gradousrifles.com/class.php

and

http://www.snipershide.com/2011/07/robert-gradous-gunsmithing-class-2011/

Note he ended up with groups in the .1s by the time he left...

John

 

[lessthanfour]

Re: I need some advice on a long range rifle

if your rich which most people arent sure go this way, for me the .338 is way to expensive for a round that i wouldnt be able to stretch its legs. .243 7mm08 .260 6.5 creedmore or a 300 win mag all do very well at 1000 and would result in more practice due to more rounds for the same cost. if you must go .338 lapua check out savages offering. my next rifle will be savage lrp .260 with a vortex viper pst ffp scope. this will reach further than i have access to shoot. if you have access to 2000 yards of shooting space or atleast 1500 then the lapua fits into the equation

 

[David S]

Re: I need some advice on a long range rifle

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jhnmdahl</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Based on what you've said, I'd consider an AI AX chassis, and talk to Robert Gradous about building something on a Surgeon 591 action.

For an additional fee, you can go out to Georgia and help build it yourself. Many have found this a very valuable way to learn about their rifle, as well as to do some load development, etc. with Robert before heading home. Check out:

http://www.gradousrifles.com/class.php

and

http://www.snipershide.com/2011/07/robert-gradous-gunsmithing-class-2011/

Note he ended up with groups in the .1s by the time he left...

John </div></div>

Hey, thanks, John. That does look like a very appealing option. I have family just outside Atlanta, so were I to go with Gradous, I easily could see making it a summer project after I do a small bit of summer teaching I've contracted. Sure, it'll be hot as the Dickens, but I imagine Robert'll have air conditioning, so no worries there.

MODERATORS: Mods, I <span style="text-decoration: underline">am</span> now wondering if I haven't thread-jacked poor j,miller, here. Might it be best to move my and related posts elsewhere or just create a new thread for them?? Whatever you guys judge best, and thanks to all for all your help so far.

Yours,

David

 

[hondaracer408]

Re: I need some advice on a long range rifle

Hahaha it's okay I don't mind I'm still learning stuff

 

[SIE107]

Re: I need some advice on a long range rifle

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: davidjschenk</div><div class="ubbcode-body">


<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: SIE107</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Since you like the pistol grip, like your AR10, what I would do is get an Eliseo stock http://competitionshootingstuff.com/, because it is the easiest transition boltgun platform from an AR there is.. even uses the same grip. </div></div>

Hey, thanks much, SIE107. That stock looks very nice to me; very nice indeed. Do you have one? If so, how has it performed for you? Is it fully adjustable so that the cheekpiece can be moved both vertically and horizontally?

Yours,

David </div></div>


Yes, I have three of them and wouldn't use any other kind. They are very well made.

 

[George63]

Re: I need some advice on a long range rifle

back to the OP

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: j,miller</div><div class="ubbcode-body">My budget for the gun is 3k, I got my eye on a nightforce 8-32x56, I reload all my ammo, I love the way my mcmillian stock feels with the adjustable kindex creek rest I would like to stay under 6 for the entire project </div></div>



since you reload and already have a .308 so do not need 1 rifle to do all, just more powder for longer range, I would say look at 300 wsm or 300 wm, either is practical over 1000 and has availability lacking in exotic rounds, for both if you concentrated on only the 175 SMK you would get results. If you feel that you are likely to shoot a large volume with this rifle I would go with a savage, 3000 $ should get you a component built rifle set up how you like it, 2 prefit replacement barrels and the set up to change the barrels yourself, otherwise start with a factory savage put in the stock of your choice, build your skills with the 1st barrel and have it tuned/reworked/spare barrels after 2000-3000 rds, your 6000 total budget should even cover the components for the first 2000 rds

if you think you will do a lesser volume with this rifle, say 2000 rds in 5 yrs (since you have a 308, which BTW will also give results at 1000yds w SMK 175), then stay with a rem configuration and plan on spending the whole 3000 on a component built rifle IMO at this level the rem will edge out the savage performance, the 6000$ total should once again cover reloading supplies for the 1st 2000 rds

if your heart is set on .338, for 6000 total I would skip the rem and savage factory offerings, either a single shot component built rifle or the TRG in a repeater is doable for a complete package in the budget, but with reloading supplies for the 1st 2000 rds you would be at 8000

 

[Dick D]

Re: I need some advice on a long range rifle

Another thing you should budget for this kind of long range accuracy is a good chronograph. And I mean a good one. If you take most typical .30 caliber long range match bullets say in the 190-200-210 range of VLD's or Matchkings and get in a good ballistics program or charts like the that will go to 1000 yds in 10 fps velocity changes you will find that 10 fps difference at the muzzle is about 2" in vertical dispersion at 1000 yds.
So, if you run 10 rounds thru the chronograph and get, say 40 fps extreme spred then that is 8 inches in vertical dispersion at 1000 yds. 50 fps extreme spread would be 10" verticle at 1000 yds. Pretty hard to get .5 moa accuracy at 1000 if you have .8 moa or 1.0 moa verticle built into the ammo.
Even 20 fps extreme spread will be 4" verticle at 1000 which is .4 moa. Not many of us can build reloads that will consistantly give 10 fps extreme spread over 10 shots all the time, but that should be the goal. And you will need the chronograph to do it.

 

[STR]

Re: I need some advice on a long range rifle

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Dick Davis</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> Another thing you should budget for this kind of long range accuracy is a good chronograph. And I mean a good one. If you take most typical .30 caliber long range match bullets say in the 190-200-210 range of VLD's or Matchkings and get in a good ballistics program or charts like the that will go to 1000 yds in 10 fps velocity changes you will find that 10 fps difference at the muzzle is about 2" in vertical dispersion at 1000 yds.
So, if you run 10 rounds thru the chronograph and get, say 40 fps extreme spred then that is 8 inches in vertical dispersion at 1000 yds. 50 fps extreme spread would be 10" verticle at 1000 yds. Pretty hard to get .5 moa accuracy at 1000 if you have .8 moa or 1.0 moa verticle built into the ammo.










Even 20 fps extreme spread will be 4" verticle at 1000 which is .4 moa. Not many of us can build reloads that will consistantly give 10 fps extreme spread over 10 shots all the time, but that should be the goal. And you will need the chronograph to do it. </div></div>


Dick, in your opinion, what is a very good chronograph? I know you guys spare no expense when it comes to good equipment, so I will try what ever you suggest. I'm not very happy with what I use now, and don't want to keep throwing money into the pit by experimenting. Thank you.

 

[hondaracer408]

Re: I need some advice on a long range rifle

I think your right a 338 will be just to much. How do you think the 168 a max will perform out to 600-1000 yards?

 

[hondaracer408]

Re: I need some advice on a long range rifle

And what kind of 300 wm or wsm would you guys recommend? Tikka,sako, worked 700 rem,custom?

 

[Kevlars]

Re: I need some advice on a long range rifle

I would try this Chronograph it has worked very well. I tried the shooting chrony and ti broke after only one outing ... sent it back and still did not work right.

Good Luck !!

 

[George63]

Re: I need some advice on a long range rifle

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: j,miller</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I think your right a 338 will be just to much. How do you think the 168 a max will perform out to 600-1000 yards? </div></div>

600 great, 1000 ?? with the 175 SMK + 4064 or varget, no ?? to 1000 for .308, in any common twist barrel. 175 SMK will also be excellent in 300 WSM or 300 WM but the load recipes are not as cut and dried

 

[SIE107]

Re: I need some advice on a long range rifle

With the WSM, I wouldn't even waste my time shooting the 175SMK, it would be better to use at least the Berger 185LRBT bullet, or the Hybrid bullet.

 

[George63]

Re: I need some advice on a long range rifle

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: SIE107</div><div class="ubbcode-body">With the WSM, I wouldn't even waste my time shooting the 175SMK, it would be better to use at least the Berger 185LRBT bullet, or the Hybrid bullet. </div></div>

great results at a reasonable price is not a waste
.30 vs .48 each and slightly less barrel wear with the lighter bullet, you will not see the difference the higher BC makes until over 600 yds, will not need anything more than a 175 until way past 1000 yds - so once every two lifetimes