I think I want a red dot on my new pistol.

[SanPatHogger]

So I put together a P80 and I'm thinking about putting a red dot on it. Problem is I don't know much about them and what makes one better than the other. I have a super cheap one on my AR9 that my dad gave me because he had a couple extras. I think I would like to run this gun in carry optics or limited optics in the small local USPSA match. I'll probably hogs with it too. Basically I saw this picture and I really like how this looks. Looks to be a Swampfox King slayer. Says it is a 3moa dot. I read in the new firearms news that the larger the dot the better... But better why? I don't know what my budget should be, I've seen super cheap amazon dots for less than $40, but lately I've grown fond of my scopes that cost a little more. The Swampfox ones run from $189 to $350. I don't think I want one of the enclosed cube looking ones.
Also.... Any one of you ever cut your own slide for an optic?

 

[ECK]

I’ve been running a dot for a while once my up close eyesight went to sh!t and its hard to focus on my front sight. Slide ride dots are a different animal than dots for carbines. They take more abuse from the recoiling slide. IME the cheapest I would go would be a Holosun, but prefer the Trijicons for their durability. I have SRO’s on my main competition guns and they’ve held up pretty good tho one of them died after 3 seasons of steady shooting, the other one is still hanging in there but has less rounds on it.

As far as dot size, for USPSA I prefer a 5MOA dot size. I also have a dot that is 2.5MOA and have to run it a little brighter than the 5MOA. Bigger is generally preferred over smaller for speed. Other than that, no real difference in accuracy that I can discern, especially if we’re talking about pistol distances. For carbines, I would probably go with a 2MOA dot for shots out beyond 100 yds.

I sent my slides off for dot milling, so can’t speak to what it would take to mill it myself.

PS, I know you said that pic is not of your gun, but comps are not allowed in Carry Optics or Limited Optics division. Open division is the only division you can run a comp on a pistol.

 

[John?]

I currently have 2 MOA holosuns on my handguns. Good dots as far as reliability and function go. No real complaints for a budget optic.

I’m going to replace the 2 MOA dots with larger dots. Bigger are easier to see and acquire at speed. I’m trying out every dot I can borrow at matches. 6 MOA is very popular and seems about right to me, but there are limited choices (vortex and CMORE that I’ve seen). I’m also on the fence about switching to a green dot. It seems better in bright sun, but not a lot better

 

[Namekagon]

I have a holosun 509 with the ACSS Vulcan reticle. Seriously look at this reticle before buying anything else.

It has a huge circle that, when you’re fully pressed out, isn’t visible in the optic. But if you cant the gun in any direction, just as the aiming point disappears out of the viewing window the edge of the red circle comes in on the opposite side. Finding the dot is instant and intuitive no matter where the gun is pointing during the press-out. Honestly I can’t imagine having a combat pistol optic without it, it’s that big of a deal.

The chevron aiming point really works great too. If you sight a 9mm in at the tip of the Chevron, the base of the chevron is the aiming point for 100 yards. Ringing 12” plates reliably at 100 with a 9mm will definitely get peoples attention lol.

Just my experience.

 

[Glassaholic]

I have a holosun 509 with the ACSS Vulcan reticle. Seriously look at this reticle before buying anything else.

It has a huge circle that, when you’re fully pressed out, isn’t visible in the optic. But if you cant the gun in any direction, just as the aiming point disappears out of the viewing window the edge of the red circle comes in on the opposite side. Finding the dot is instant and intuitive no matter where the gun is pointing during the press-out. Honestly I can’t imagine having a combat pistol optic without it, it’s that big of a deal.

The chevron aiming point really works great too. If you sight a 9mm in at the tip of the Chevron, the base of the chevron is the aiming point for 100 yards. Ringing 12” plates reliably at 100 with a 9mm will definitely get peoples attention lol.

Just my experience.

So is the chevron made up of little tiny dots or is it a solid image? My astigmatism wrecks havoc with those little dots which is why Eotech's don't work for me.

OP, I just bought a Holosun EPS 6 moa today to use with a Reptilia piggyback on my AR, not the same application as you but the EPS was designed for pistols so will be curious how well I like this little unit as Holosun seems to get high praise from those with astigmatism...

 

[Namekagon]

It’s a solid chevron. I know what you mean about little dots on the Eotech, and the holosun doesn’t produce that effect.

 

[Grubber]

I’ve gone through a few red dots in the past few years. I’ve found that the Trijicon 5 MOA SRO is perfect for me. The large glass and dot have helped make me a better CO shooter. The controls are very convenient. The sight is super reliable and none of the 3 I’ve bought have had to be returned for repairs. It is pricey, around $540, but in my opinion, well worth the money. I’ve recommended it to several local shooters and none of them have been disappointed with their sights. Hope this helps.

 

[bigwild89]

I would recommend Sig Sauer Romeo Zero reflex red dot sight. Affordable and will do a great job with the P80.

 

[SanPatHogger]

Thank you all for your input. After looking a little more I think I like the circle with the dot in the center, should work fast up close on multiple targets, but still have a small dot for more precision. I like the SIG because it has a rear sight built in, Crimson Trace has a couple with rear sight built in.
Looks like most red dots are mounted in front of the rear sight, but then the rear sight may block some of the window? So then I see some mount the sight to the rear and cut a new groove for the rear sight in font of the optic, looks a little silly, but does it work? I think I like the rear sight built into the optic, and I'll just do away with the rear sight.
The more expensive ones only have one reticle. I see some that have a dot and a circle dot that you can switch between, but they are cheaper.
I'm not in a rush, so keep the suggestions coming.

 

[John?]

Thank you all for your input. After looking a little more I think I like the circle with the dot in the center, should work fast up close on multiple targets, but still have a small dot for more precision. I like the SIG because it has a rear sight built in, Crimson Trace has a couple with rear sight built in.
Looks like most red dots are mounted in front of the rear sight, but then the rear sight may block some of the window? So then I see some mount the sight to the rear and cut a new groove for the rear sight in font of the optic, looks a little silly, but does it work? I think I like the rear sight built into the optic, and I'll just do away with the rear sight.
The more expensive ones only have one reticle. I see some that have a dot and a circle dot that you can switch between, but they are cheaper.
I'm not in a rush, so keep the suggestions coming.

I remove the rear sight all together. It’s redundant and really slows down the process, especially on a sport pistol. The front sight helps with orientation while learning to acquire the dot.

I used the EO tech on the carbine when i was in service (among other issued RDS as one doesn’t dictate to Uncle Sam). The circle reticle is useful for compensating height over bore in close engagement. Otherwise a distraction

I have the holosun with circle dot option. I do not use the circle; dot only.

YMMB

 

[Racer88]

I'm a bit of an avid P80 builder. But unless you're a machinist or have access to the right equipment.... I wouldn't even think of trying to mill the slide myself. The milling needs to be very precise, naturally. I'd either send the slide off to a pro or buy a pre-milled slide (which is what I've done).

I have a Trijicon RMR on my home defense pistol (for many years). But I installed Holosuns on two of my P80 builds. I like the Holosuns better than the venerated Trijicon RMR, honestly.

For my PFC9 (serialized P80 frame) EDC pistol, I got the Holosun 507C (green) with the ACSS Vulcan reticle that @Namekagon mentioned.

The ACSS Vulcan reticle is the bee's knees, IMO. Especially good for learning and training for consistent presentation from a draw and quick acquisition of the "dot."

Holosun's infographic on how it works:​

Then I made my own infographic:​

(getting the reticle in sharp focus is difficult with a camera, but it's very sharp to the human eye).

Once you've dialed in your presentation, you won't ever see that outer circle.
For defensive shooting, I really REALLY like the chevron. If it's bullseye shooting, then the small dot reticle is better, of course.

I read in the new firearms news that the larger the dot the better... But better why?

Ummm... no. It depends. Bigger dot for faster acquisition / visibility... has advantages for defensive weapons. But if you're a competitive bullseye shooter, a big dot will obscure the bullseye, especially at longer distances. It will be less precise. If you're a bullseye shooter, a smaller dot is preferable.

That's why Trijicon offers their pistol optics in various dot sizes. My home defense pistol (FNH FNP-45T) has the Trijicon RM07 with a 6.5-MOA dot. That's a big dot. But it's for defensive use (big target). For more precise bullseye use, I'd go down to a 2-MOA or smaller dot.

Looks like most red dots are mounted in front of the rear sight, but then the rear sight may block some of the window? So then I see some mount the sight to the rear and cut a new groove for the rear sight in font of the optic, looks a little silly, but does it work?

Whether the rear sight is in front or behind, it will block a portion of the window. Some believe that it's "less intrusive" when in front of the optic. I agree it looks funky.

So, it depends on how tall your iron sights are. Personally, I think the whole notion of "co-witness" is really bullshit. The claim is that you'll use them if the battery craps out. The chances of the battery crapping out goes to zero if you simply replace your battery on a scheduled yearly basis.

If you want to have iron "back-up" sights, I'd make them as short as possible.

Finally... realize that it will take some time, training, and practice to become proficient with a pistol optic. But, I can honestly say at this point I am considerably faster with an optic than I am with iron sights. And as a person whose eyes aren't what they used to be (cannot focus on a front sight unless I'm using "cheaters" (glasses).... the optic reticle is always sharp (without glasses).

Another BIG advantage of pistol optics is the ability to stay "threat / target focused." You focus on the target and simply bring the "dot" (or chevron) up to be superimposed on the target. No shifting your focus like is required by iron sights.

 

[Malum Prohibitum]

I have a holosun 509 with the ACSS Vulcan reticle. Seriously look at this reticle before buying anything else.

It has a huge circle that, when you’re fully pressed out, isn’t visible in the optic. But if you cant the gun in any direction, just as the aiming point disappears out of the viewing window the edge of the red circle comes in on the opposite side. Finding the dot is instant and intuitive no matter where the gun is pointing during the press-out. Honestly I can’t imagine having a combat pistol optic without it, it’s that big of a deal.

The chevron aiming point really works great too. If you sight a 9mm in at the tip of the Chevron, the base of the chevron is the aiming point for 100 yards. Ringing 12” plates reliably at 100 with a 9mm will definitely get peoples attention lol.

Just my experience.

I'm a bit of an avid P80 builder. But unless you're a machinist or have access to the right equipment.... I wouldn't even think of trying to mill the slide myself. The milling needs to be very precise, naturally. I'd either send the slide off to a pro or buy a pre-milled slide (which is what I've done).

I have a Trijicon RMR on my home defense pistol (for many years). But I installed Holosuns on two of my P80 builds. I like the Holosuns better than the venerated Trijicon RMR, honestly.

For my PFC9 (serialized P80 frame) EDC pistol, I got the Holosun 507C (green) with the ACSS Vulcan reticle that @Namekagon mentioned.
View attachment 8233582

The ACSS Vulcan reticle is the bee's knees, IMO. Especially good for learning and training for consistent presentation from a draw and quick acquisition of the "dot."

Holosun's infographic on how it works:​

View attachment 8233584

Then I made my own infographic:​

(getting the reticle in sharp focus is difficult with a camera, but it's very sharp to the human eye).
View attachment 8233583

For defensive shooting, I really REALLY like the chevron. If it's bullseye shooting, then the small dot reticle is better, of course.


Ummm... no. It depends. Bigger dot for faster acquisition / visibility... has advantages for defensive weapons. But if you're a competitive bullseye shooter, a big dot will obscure the bullseye, especially at longer distances. It will be less precise. If you're a bullseye shooter, a smaller dot is preferable.



Whether the rear sight is in front or behind, it will block a portion of the window. Some believe that it's "less intrusive" when in front of the optic. I agree it looks funky.

So, it depends on how tall your iron sights are. Personally, I think the whole notion of "co-witness" is really bullshit. The claim is that you'll use them if the battery craps out. The chances of the battery crapping out goes to zero if you simply replace your battery on a scheduled yearly basis.

If you want to have iron "back-up" sights, I'd make them as short as possible.

Finally... realize that it will take some time, training, and practice to become proficient with a pistol optic. But, I can honestly say at this point I am considerably faster with an optic than I am with iron sights. And as a person whose eyes aren't what they used to be (cannot focus on a front sight unless I'm using "cheaters" (glasses).... the optic reticle is always sharp (without glasses).

Another BIG advantage of pistol optics is the ability to stay "threat / target focused." You focus on the target and simply bring the "dot" (or chevron) up to be superimposed on the target. No shifting your focus like is required by iron sights.

I have really been wanting to get that sight, and you two are just tempting me to spend money . . .

 

[j-moose32]

If you’re on the fence, take the plunge into red dots. They are a complete game changer, and you’re behind the curve already by still shooting irons- I recently switched to red dot, and wish I had sooner. The rear sight isn’t needed. The idea of needing “backup iron sights” for “carry gun” in case the red dot breaks is largely blown out of proportion online, but not needed in real life / practical purposes.

 

[502Chevelle]

Racer88 has a lot of good info in that post. I run an SRO on my CZ CO gun. It has a smaller dot and I like it a lot. I have no rear sight, but the front sight is still on, and even though it sounds odd, I visually pick up my front sight during presentation, due to muscle memory, and that brings the red dot into good alignment with the target. I also have a couple Holosun on my PCC ARs and I like them a lot as well. It’s just these days I hate supporting China, but dang they work good.

 

[308pirate]

Thank you all for your input. After looking a little more I think I like the circle with the dot in the center, should work fast up close on multiple targets, but still have a small dot for more precision. I like the SIG because it has a rear sight built in, Crimson Trace has a couple with rear sight built in.
Looks like most red dots are mounted in front of the rear sight, but then the rear sight may block some of the window? So then I see some mount the sight to the rear and cut a new groove for the rear sight in font of the optic, looks a little silly, but does it work? I think I like the rear sight built into the optic, and I'll just do away with the rear sight.
The more expensive ones only have one reticle. I see some that have a dot and a circle dot that you can switch between, but they are cheaper.
I'm not in a rush, so keep the suggestions coming.

Stay away from anything with big circles tiny dots chevrons cross hairs and anything else that isn't a dot.

The dot size on a handgun should not ever be smaller than 5 to 6 moa. My main USPSA carry optics pistol has a 10 moa dot. Those who say a dot that big cannot be shot with precision simply don't know how to shoot. A 10 moa dot covers 2.5" at 25 yards. There ain't a bullseye that small in any shooting sport that I know of.

Get a handgun with a system that will accept multiple optic footprints. Anything that locks you into one footprint sucks. But if you insist on being locked on make sure the footprint is Trijicon.

Trijicon makes the most rugged and durable pistol optics. Period. For defensive use I'll choose nothing else. Trijicon optics all have emitters sealed behind glass which many of the cheapos do not.

The rear sight in front of the optic works and works better that behind the optic because it doesn't block the lens where the dot is projected from your eyes.

I don't rely on iron sights to acquire the dot. I worked on my draw and index until the dot shows up simultaneously on target and in front of my eyes on every draw no matter what.

A reflex optic on a pistol will absolutely show you how much your draw and presentation sucks. And yes yours sucks. You're about to find out when you draw to a target and the dot is nowhere to be found. It's not the dot. It's you 100%.

Lastly you MUST learn how to shoot with both eyes open AND 100% focused on the target not the dot. Best way to learn how to do that is to cover the entire front of the lens with masking tape.

This was done with a C-More RTS2 10 moa dot at 25 yards at a pace of .7 to .8 seconds per shot. Not fast but also not taking my own sweet time when confirming zero. The first few shots were low and left after zeroing at 10 yards. The head is 6" x 6" and the circle in the head is 4" diameter. As I said before a 10 moa dot covers 2.5" at that distance.

 

[RKBArmory]

I had no idea how much I was shaking, until I added a red dot to a pistol. It was frustrating, and I was tempted to go back to iron sights. But, once I learned to relax, and to actually focus on the target, things improved dramatically. Yes, O.P., you should put a red dot on your pistol.

I'm currently using the Holosun EPS with the multiple reticle system, which offers the circle / dot that O.P. mentioned, but also offers just the dot. I'm even trying just the circle (without the dot), as an experiment.

If you decide to go with The Swamfox Kingslayer, we have a lightly used one.

 

[308pirate]

Holusun = king of gimmicks

 

[Racer88]

Another benefit of "dot" optics on a pistol: Much easier to call your shots (see your errors).

 

[Racer88]

The ACSS Vulcan chevron is 10-MOA vertically. It can be used as a "bullet drop compensator," too.

Yes, the Trijicon RMR is the "gold standard" in durability. If I was going into combat... that's the one. But I'm not rolling around in the dirt and rocks as a civilian. I've smacked the Holosun 507 on my EDC into door jambs and furniture many times. It is rock solid and holds zero.

I wish it wasn't Chinese. But I also wish Trijicon offered more features. Holosun makes a solid product. It is what it is. The Holosun window is bigger and less tinting. Holosun's battery can be changed without removing the optic from the slide. Holosun has multiple reticle choices. My Holosun even has solar back-up power.

The Trijicon on my FNP-45T: Not much window "real estate" there.

Holosun 507C on my PFC9:

Lastly... I have no idea which reticle works best for the run and gun competitions. That's beyond my knowledge / experience.

 

[theLBC]

the biggest problem i see with experienced shooters that are new to red dots is that they "look for the dot".
if you are experienced with irons, just trust your muscle memory and present the pistol like you have done for years and the dot will be there.

with many new shooters these days that don't already have experience with irons, i understand why holosun has added that outer circle.

 

[308pirate]

I can see who here just stands in one spot and shoots slowly at one target vs who uses their pistol in a way that represents how they're actually used.

The size of the window is almost irrelevant once the dot is in your fov. The picture above with the RMR is a perfect explanation why the rear sight in front of the optic is better if you're going to use sights that can be used throught the optic. .

The blue tint is also irrelevant because you're supposed to see past the optic and not through it. It's not s rifle scope.

Holosuns "features" are mostly dumb gimmicks. Their reticles are all inferior to a single 6 to 10 moa dot. Their solar panel is useless 99% of the time when the pistol is either in storage or under concealment. The shake awake instant on is worthless during your daily activity because you'll never stay still long enough for it to shut off. Speaking of features the auto brightness on holosuns 407C and 507C sucks ass. I know because I owned one.

I leave the RMR on my carry gun on 24/7/365 in auto brightness mode. It adjusts to changing light instantly and after 3 years on its first battery it was still going strong. It rezeroes almost perfectly when removed and reinstalled on the same pistol for a battery change. The new RMR HD fixes the few minor issues with the RMR except dumbass Trijicon forgot the 6.5 moa dot.

 

[308pirate]

the biggest problem i see with experienced shooters that are new to red dots is that they "look for the dot".
if you are experienced with irons, just trust your muscle memory and present the pistol like you have done for years and the dot will be there.

with many new shooters these days that don't already have experience with irons, i understand why holosun has added that outer circle.

It doesn't work that way. In fact it's the opposite.

Most long time iron sight shooters have gotten used to subconsciously see the sights coming up in rough alignment as they present and then fine tune at the last second. They are the ones with the most trouble when transitioning to a dot because the dot gives the no reference as the pistol starts coming into view. A few have a really good index and find the transition easy.

New shooters with no iron sight experience take to dots much easier as long as they are shown a correct draw and index from the start.

I have co witnessed irons on one pistol only. All my others including my other two carry guns just have the low oem sights. Don't need cowitnessed sights to find the dot and as far as I'm concerned my choice (Trijicon) is reliable enough for me to go all in.

 

[theLBC]

It doesn't work that way. In fact it's the opposite.

Most long time iron sight shooters have gotten used to subconsciously see the sights coming up in rough alignment as they present and then fine tune at the last second. They are the ones with the most trouble when transitioning to a dot because the dot gives the no reference as the pistol starts coming into view. A few have a really good index and find the transition easy.

New shooters with no iron sight experience take to dots much easier as long as they are shown a correct draw and index from the start.

I have co witnessed irons on one pistol only. All my others including my other two carry guns just have the low oem sights. Don't need cowitnessed sights to find the dot and as far as I'm concerned my choice (Trijicon) is reliable enough for me to go all in.

i always assumed putting suppressor height sights were there in case of electronic sight failure.
i never used them as a crutch to help me find a red/green dot.
for me, if i just point the muzzle in the general direction of what i am looking at, the sights (or dot) is there.
perhaps this is too simple for me after 40 years doing the same thing.

 

[FWoo45]

I have a holosun that is pretty great, it is also chicom bullshit. I won't buy another, maybe you're a commie and that doesn't matter to you. My next will be an rmr HD.

Good info here.

Sage Dynamics

Sage Dynamics offers reality-based training for law enforcement, military and private citizens.

www.sagedynamics.org

 

[Malum Prohibitum]

the biggest problem i see with experienced shooters that are new to red dots is that they "look for the dot".
if you are experienced with irons, just trust your muscle memory and present the pistol like you have done for years and the dot will be there.

with many new shooters these days that don't already have experience with irons, i understand why holosun has added that outer circle.

The outer circle is supposed to be there for when you are in an awkward position. On your back, or down on one knee and leaning over sideways holding your pistol one handed to shoot around an obstacle, and similar positions that are not two handed hold, standing upright and presenting your pistol the way you always practice it. Sometimes in the real world you get to do it that way, and sometimes you don't.

 

[Malum Prohibitum]

It doesn't work that way. In fact it's the opposite.

Most long time iron sight shooters have gotten used to subconsciously see the sights coming up in rough alignment as they present and then fine tune at the last second. They are the ones with the most trouble when transitioning to a dot because the dot gives the no reference as the pistol starts coming into view. A few have a really good index and find the transition easy.

New shooters with no iron sight experience take to dots much easier as long as they are shown a correct draw and index from the start.

I have co witnessed irons on one pistol only. All my others including my other two carry guns just have the low oem sights. Don't need cowitnessed sights to find the dot and as far as I'm concerned my choice (Trijicon) is reliable enough for me to go all in.

Your first sentence description describes me to a T. I have not yet made the transition to red dot, but when I do, I realize that it is going to take some major work on my part.

 

[Racer88]

with many new shooters these days that don't already have experience with irons, i understand why holosun has added that outer circle.

It's like "training wheels" for pistol dot optics. I'm not a new shooter by any means. But I found it to be a clever addition. Most of the time you don't see the outer circle. But if for some reason your presentation is off, the circle intuitively (and quickly) gets you back on track.

The outer circle can be turned off, too. And that will extend battery life,

 

[Racer88]

I'll parse some of this, though I realize we all have our preferences. For me... for now... the Holosun 507 presents the best overall in terms of performance and features.

Holosuns "features" are mostly dumb gimmicks. Their reticles are all inferior to a single 6 to 10 moa dot.

I find the "circle-dot" combo to be gimmicky. On my regular 507C (not the ACSS Vulcan), I have it set to just a dot, which I believe is 2-MOA. It's a range toy and not a defensive weapon.

Their solar panel is useless 99% of the time when the pistol is either in storage or under concealment.

True. It's intended as a back-up (presumably in daylight), if the battery goes dead (unlikely, if you change it every year).

The shake awake instant on is worthless during your daily activity because you'll never stay still long enough for it to shut off.

Also true. But when it's not on you... in the safe, on the night stand, etc.... it saves battery life.

Speaking of features the auto brightness on holosuns 407C and 507C sucks ass. I know because I owned one.

I find the auto-brightness on my 507Cs to be fine / acceptable. The only time I switch to manual is at the indoor range, where the light right over the shooting line makes the dot too bright against the target downrange, which is not as brightly lit.

It appears Trijicon is FINALLY coming out with some new models or upgrades to existing models. So, that's good.

 

[308pirate]

i always assumed putting suppressor height sights were there in case of electronic sight failure.
i never used them as a crutch to help me find a red/green dot.
for me, if i just point the muzzle in the general direction of what i am looking at, the sights (or dot) is there.
perhaps this is too simple for me after 40 years doing the same thing.

You'd be amazed at the number of people that never figure out their draw so that the sights (whatever they are) show up on target and on your eye line every time no matter how long they've been shooting.

No disrespect but I don't consider how long someone has been shooting to mean anything. It's very easy to be doing something at a mediocre level for a long time if one doesn't ever get exposed to excellence and/or have the humility and motivation to change and improve.

 

[308pirate]

Your first sentence description describes me to a T. I have not yet made the transition to red dot, but when I do, I realize that it is going to take some major work on my part.

The beauty of getting good with a handgun is that so much can be gained without ever firing a shot. That includes draws, reloads, transitions, and those three in combination with movement.

You do need to confirm with live fire tho.

 

[Malum Prohibitum]

I spend a lot of time drawing and presentation, trying to get a sight picture automatically. I have gotten better at it, but it is still a work in progress.

 

[SanPatHogger]

Trijicon looks sweet, but damn expensive. The C-more has some good ones too, still a little high. This will be just getting my feet wet, running a couple different level one USPSA matches and shooting some pigs.
I don't think I'm ready to drop a ton of money yet. But I think I do have a better idea of what I want. I want a big dot.
Now what about lens size? Does it matter? I would think bigger is better, but if the frame is skinny it shouldn't block any view.
I am going to have to get my slide milled, or get a second slide that is already milled.

This one is a RMR footprint and 6 moa dot. It is cheap enough that if I don't like it I could re purpose it for something else or sell it off dirt cheap.
Amazon product ASIN B08Q23DQL1

 

[Racer88]

Trijicon looks sweet, but damn expensive. The C-more has some good ones too, still a little high. This will be just getting my feet wet, running a couple different level one USPSA matches and shooting some pigs.
I don't think I'm ready to drop a ton of money yet. But I think I do have a better idea of what I want. I want a big dot.
Now what about lens size? Does it matter? I would think bigger is better, but if the frame is skinny it shouldn't block any view.
I am going to have to get my slide milled, or get a second slide that is already milled.

This one is a RMR footprint and 6 moa dot. It is cheap enough that if I don't like it I could re purpose it for something else or sell it off dirt cheap.
Amazon product ASIN B08Q23DQL1

Honestly, anything in that price range is going to likely be disappointing. As such, a bad experience may sour you on pistol optics altogether. It's likely to not hold zero. And it might crap out completely. (Read the reviews.)

You don't have to spend $500+ on a Trijicon, but for anything decent (like a Holosun), you're going to need to spend $250 - $350.

I've got 6,000 rounds fired with my Holosun on my EDC pistol. No issues at all.

 

[R_A_W]

I have a holosun 509 with the ACSS Vulcan reticle. Seriously look at this reticle before buying anything else.

I'll push back & say these reticles actually suck.

I've been carrying a 365 w/ the HS-507K-X2 w/ ACSS dot for the last ~8 months. It has a 2MOA center dot (not the chevron) & the 230MOA outside circle that's supposed to provide faster sight acquisition. I'll be the first to tell you it's not faster & might actually be slower. You should train to find your sight picture through proper presentation... adding an additional visual element in is superfluous at best & a distraction that may increase cognitive load at worst. I'm also pretty sure it kills the battery much faster. I think it's a neat idea that doesn't solve the problem it aims to fix & therefore is a waste of money. I'm either pulling it off entirely or turning the outer "orientation circle" off to just use the 2MOA center dot.

The shake awake instant on is worthless during your daily activity because you'll never stay still long enough for it to shut off.

I disagree, I think Holosun's shake to wake is great. It's basically on while your wearing a gun & off at night, which is my preference.

Also, I have hit the 507K's +/- buttons enough that I feel the need to check my brightness level every now and then. That might be a "me" issue, however.

Edit
Just noticed mine still says “Vulcan” despite being the 2MOA center dot.

 

[M8541Reaper]

Trijicon RMR RM06 Type 2
JagerWerks for the milling.
Don’t buy cheap shit to mount to your firearm. Save up for a few extra months if it’s out of your current budget. You won’t regret it.

 

[308pirate]

Trijicon RMR RM06 Type 2
JagerWerks for the milling.
Don’t buy cheap shit to mount to your firearm. Save up for a few extra months if it’s out of your current budget. You won’t regret it.

Can't disagree except for RM07 > RM06

 

[Anb618]

I can understand not wanting to buy a top-tier MRDS just to test the waters. That said, avoid the crap optics by unknown companies like you’ve posted above.

Holosun makes decent stuff, but IMO your best budget option is probably the Sig Romeo Zero Pro. It’s a good low/mid-tier optic with proven durability under recoil (not for duty-use, but good enough for a fun gun) and at a great price point.

 

[308pirate]

I disagree, I think Holosun's shake to wake is great. It's basically on while your wearing a gun & off at night, which is my preference.

It's there because it's needed to extend the life of the small 1634 battery that holosun uses to match that of the much bigger 2032 used by trijicon.

The RMR on my carry gun is on 24/7/365 on auto adjust. When it's in my nightstand it dims to the darkness conserving battery and when I take it out I don't have to fuck with adjusting brightness.

 

[308pirate]

I can understand not wanting to buy a top-tier MRDS just to test the waters. That said, avoid the crap optics by unknown companies like you’ve posted

If you buy a tier 1 optic and don't like optics on your pistol you're guaranteed decent resale and a quick move.

With mid grade stuff not so much.

 

[SanPatHogger]

I can understand not wanting to buy a top-tier MRDS just to test the waters. That said, avoid the crap optics by unknown companies like you’ve posted above.

Holosun makes decent stuff, but IMO your best budget option is probably the Sig Romeo Zero Pro. It’s a good low/mid-tier optic with proven durability under recoil (not for duty-use, but good enough for a fun gun) and at a great price point.

I think you may have found me a red dot. 6 moa and rear sight built in for under $140. With a recognizable name.
Thank you.

Amazon product ASIN B07XGMYSLW
And add on this mount and I don't have to cut my slide yet. This may be the way to go.
Amazon product ASIN B08RDDSNF3

 

[308pirate]

I spend a lot of time drawing and presentation, trying to get a sight picture automatically. I have gotten better at it, but it is still a work in progress.

It never really ends.

I'm not a training class junky (I'm about 90% self taught) but a class from a pro can sometimes help you break out of a slump.

 

[CSAR]

A reflex optic on a pistol will absolutely show you how much your draw and presentation sucks.

^^^ This. It took me a while to un-fuck myself. It's not about reps... it's about good reps.

 

[Racer88]

Holosun makes decent stuff, but IMO your best budget option is probably the Sig Romeo Zero Pro. It’s a good low/mid-tier optic with proven durability under recoil (not for duty-use, but good enough for a fun gun) and at a great price point.

One of my shooting buddies had a Sig Romeo Zero on his P365. He did not like it. Reticle is hard to see. (I also shot it and agreed.) He demoted the Romeo Zero to his .22 pistol and put a Holosun 507K on his P365 (after trying one of my Holosun-equipped pistols) and likes it much better.

As they say, "YMMV."

 

[Anb618]

If you buy a tier 1 optic and don't like optics on your pistol you're guaranteed decent resale and a quick move.

With mid grade stuff not so much.

I agree, and I pretty much only, “buy once cry once,” for my guns. That said, some people follow a different path and I’d rather he not buy Chinesium Amazon shit that will crap out immediately, ruining his experience. At least the Sig RZeroPro is a decent optic to start with.

 

[Milf Dots]

I have a holosun that is pretty great, it is also chicom bullshit. I won't buy another, maybe you're a commie and that doesn't matter to you. My next will be an rmr HD.

Yeah, unfortunately both Holosun and Swampfox are the brands of two different Chinese OEM optics manufacturers and that's a deal breaker for me like it is for others in this thread.

A good optic for a good price is the Ameriglo Haven with a top load battery, metal housing, glass lens, and it uses a Trijicon RMR footprint. It can usually be found at a sale price for about $249-299, and it's made in the Philippines. Also, Ameriglo is a Trijicon company.

 

[308pirate]

I agree, and I pretty much only, “buy once cry once,” for my guns. That said, some people follow a different path and I’d rather he not buy Chinesium Amazon shit that will crap out immediately, ruining his experience. At least the Sig RZeroPro is a decent optic to start with.

Laughs in Monstrum......

LOL we have a local guy who is barely a B class pcc shooter sponsored by that POS optics company.

 

[wooferocau]

Run a Leica Tempus 2 on my Beretta... No complaints...

 

[R_A_W]

If you buy a tier 1 optic and don't like optics on your pistol you're guaranteed decent resale and a quick move.

How true does this hold for red dots? I skimmed ARFCOM EE & I only saw one used RMR @ $315 w/ p365 plate

I don’t think that holds true for scopes (in $). E.g. taking a 10% haircut on an ATACR or ZCO is worse than a 50% loss on an EP5

 

[Malum Prohibitum]

It never really ends.

I'm not a training class junky (I'm about 90% self taught) but a class from a pro can sometimes help you break out of a slump.

I've had lots of classes, including govt ones (one that lasted a week), but nothing for red dot. I am considering switching due to age. Focusing on that front sight is not the same in my 50s as it was in my 20s.

 

[Racer88]

I've had lots of classes, including govt ones (one that lasted a week), but nothing for red dot. I am considering switching due to age. Focusing on that front sight is not the same in my 50s as it was in my 20s.

Over the last year, I've had eight 1-hour private sessions with an instructor, using the dot optic. Big help! The lessons would apply to irons or optics. They were not optic-specific. It's just that I went through all the lessons using the optic. The focus was defensive techniques and speed.

I'm also in my 50s... for about 1 more month (fuuuuuuuuuuuuuck). But yeah... focusing on a front iron sight without "cheaters" is no longer possible. Using a pistol optic is a "game changer." But getting your presentation down takes training and practice. But once you get it... you got it!