I want to take my hand loading up a notch, help me pick a new press please.

[Mean_Man]

I got into hand loading loading .45acp, 9x19 and 5.56x45. Just making decent but plinking ammo, long story short I went for mostly LEE products and grabbed one of their Challenger presses which was a new thing at the time I believe that had the locking bushing to quick swap dies so I didn’t have to redo setup every time I changed a die….

Was still annoying and I hate single stage for doing a lot of ammo, BUT that press was good enough to get me going, learn and make some ammo.

Now I have shifted focus less on volume (thank goodness as that was the wrong tool for that job) and more on precision.

I have my doubts with the bushing system of that press…. And so I’m wondering where to start looking to make match quality top shelf ammunition. I have a set of Lyman .308 dies i inherited, I recently bought a .308 bolt action that’s heavily focused on long range accuracy.

Would I be wasting my time with that press? And if so, what’s an upper end of the bell curve value press that’s not going to break my wallet but I can rely on? I don’t have Dillon compound press money….and since this will be low volume, I’m absolutely more focused on accuracy and repeatability, so single stage is what I’m after here.

 

[D̷e̷v̷i̷l̷D̷o̷c̷A̷Z̷]

My “cheap” LEE single stage makes great ammo. For a while I considered spending $ on a “better” reloading press, dies, etc.

I never did get a new stuff. I spent the money on primers, powder and projos. Suffice to say I believe my groups improved because I put more time into my shooting.

Are you looking for more volume? Personally I just buy pistol chow by the case and sell the brass to fund the rifle chow.

But I get it. My girlfriend has 100 pairs of good shoes but she’s out shoe shopping today.

 

[eklarsen]

If your talking precision, I would assume you are thinking single stage, in that case I think the best for the money is Redding presses with the revolving turrets, I think it is called G7 or something, If progressive I have always used Hornady but as you mentioned Dilion, there are better presses available if you have the coin.

 

[Mean_Man]

If your talking precision, I would assume you are thinking single stage, in that case I think the best for the money is Redding presses with the revolving turrets, I think it is called G7 or something, If progressive I have always used Hornady but as you mentioned Dilion, there are better presses available if you have the coin.

Yeah thinking single stage.

I won’t really know until I make a round or two of the .308 with the dies I have and just take some measurements with micrometers (not calipers)

I’m probably better off assuming there’s no slop in the press or bushings to focus on the right kind of dies…. I’m assuming a simple two die set like I have is less than ideal…

I’m assuming that because I didn’t even know what neck sizing mandrels and bushings were until recently…

Obviously uniformity of the brass and consistency are what I’m after. I plan on running either Sierra match king or Berger projectiles.

As I understand it the SMK ogive being a tangent type I believe it’s called is very forgiving but not aerodynamics optimized. And I think the Berger 185 juggernaut is the same but they also have a hybrid that combines aspects of both.

Point being I’m trying to ascertain what needs to go from good enough to match grade?

 

[XLR308]

I used a Lee press for years and then tought my brother to reload on it.
Between me and him using it with years of use and thousands of rounds of ammo it finally started showing signs of wear and had a little play in it at the ram to frame fit.
I replaced it with a Rockchucker Supreme press and that should last me the rest of my life.
Your lee challenger press is more than adequate for all but maybe the largest magnum rifle cases.
The Lee dies are just fine as well they just don't have all the bells and whistles of match die sets.
I have loaded some of my most accurate ammo with Lee dies and still us3 the collet neck dies on some cartidges.

 

[jinxx4ever]

i've been using the Redding T7 turret press for over 10 years now. Once dies are set, the loads are exact. I know some have graduated from this to the Area 419 Zero press, i looked at one at Scheels the other day and it's nice, but just don't think it would do a better job than what i'm getting from my Redding. I use the Redding Elite series of dies

 

[db2000]

Since you mentioned “take it up a notch”. The best investment I made was the Fx120i and AutoTrickler V4 combo. Cuts a significant amount of time. I don’t load volume on my single stage but even 50-100 at a time is so much quicker with the automated process. Then it’s off to the range.

 

[D̷e̷v̷i̷l̷D̷o̷c̷A̷Z̷]

Since you mentioned “take it up a notch”. The best investment I made was the Fx120i and AutoTrickler V4 combo. Cuts a significant amount of time. I don’t load volume on my single stage but even 50-100 at a time is so much quicker with the automated process. Then it’s off to the range.

Agreed.

Spend money on better powder metering.

 

[Mean_Man]

Since you mentioned “take it up a notch”. The best investment I made was the Fx120i and AutoTrickler V4 combo. Cuts a significant amount of time. I don’t load volume on my single stage but even 50-100 at a time is so much quicker with the automated process. Then it’s off to the range.

I'm guessing those are electronic powder dispensers? I have an older model RCBS ChargeMaster (I think the first one they came out with) It works okay, heck of a lot better than handle trickling a whole charge though if you used.... a charge thrower? I guess they're called and have it just a little shy of you're target, then hand trickled I swear it might be faster... *shrug*. For what I'm wanting to do i'll probably do something similar anyway as I noticed every once in a while it will throw a charge that's over or under by a tenth so I'll probably just use powder scoops that get me close and then hand trickle as I want the exact same in every case. I plan to get serious and take it as far as I can on my budget, like weighing and culling Lapua or Alpha brass (gotta get some) so that the heaviest and lightest get set aside, then taking H20 capacity measurements of each and every single case that's not culled from the batch of 100... unless maybe 20 deep into it I'm not seeing any variation. etc. etc. there's tedious but low cost things I figure I can control I have never bothered with just loading M193 and M855A1 clone loads, or 124gr +P loads..... did make some sweet sabot 9x19 ammo though that laughs at soft armor at 2400+ fps with a 41gr solid copper self turned projectile. That was an interesting load development. 5.7x28 eat your heart out.


How does one decide on match dies? far as neck mandrels and bullet seating stems?

 

[secondofangle2]

Press is perhaps the least important part of a reloading set up

I had an old red hornady pacific that I got in the late 1980s that made fantastic ammo. At some point, I gave it to my neighbor and “upgraded” to an RCBS rock chucker. I honestly think the old horny was more solid, but I had given it away and it was too late. For 50BMG, I also used RCBS

Then at some point, I had all of the other bling equipment like the amp annealer and Giraud trimmer so I figured I need bling presses too and I spent about $2500 on German PRAZIPRESS. Two of them.

They are works of art but again they do not make better ammo. Plain and simple. And getting them set up, gave me a fair dose of grief which I have documented elsewhere. My warnings are roundly ignored by all of the guys who have more money than brains and have convinced themselves they are getting the Ferrari of reloading presses.

If I were starting out reloading 308 today, I would be thinking about getting some kind of bushing die, I prefer the Redding type S for sizing. Micrometer dies don’t make a whole lot of difference, but if you found a set of the Redding competition ones I think you would be pleased with them. The sliding sleeve inside probably does help with bullet alignment although I remain a little skeptical how much difference that makes.

As another poster said, getting your powder charges to within one colonel is going to actually make a difference

As another poster said good quality components like LAPUA brass is going to definitely make a difference in the long run

And I would probably get some kind of flame annealer with a small hopper so that it is partly automated.

After my cases had been shot four or five times I would be looking at getting a trimmer and I am partial to the GIRAUD. That up your game in terms of case uniformity and ease of workflow.

If you don’t have one, get some kind of rotary or vibratory Tumblr with corncob and walnut media. It has tried and true. Do not use stainless steel pens they will fuck up your neck tension by a braiding the neck and cleaning off all of the carbon.

I also like to know where my lands are so if you don’t have one, you could consider getting the horny version of that

Expensive calipers are a goddamn waste, $20 made in China ones work perfectly fine , STARRETT and MITUTOYO are just for bling

You can’t tell if you’re making good ammo unless you have a Garmin to coronagraph your loads. I suppose it doesn’t matter if you’re not shooting past one or 200 yards but if you are a Garmin is indispensable these days.

 

[Chris1972]

Rock Chucker or T-7 is the answer. Although I load on a 419 Zero now, I made excellent ammo with a Lee Challenger and Lee dies. Attention to detail is the key. The Challenger takes a lot more of that attention.

Use the chargemaster and trickle up like you suggested. Hit it where 1 kernel of powder trips to the next number every time. No, you won’t have have 1 kernel accuracy, but it will be significantly closer than the unit can do on its own and plenty good for quality ammo.

 

[D̷e̷v̷i̷l̷D̷o̷c̷A̷Z̷]

I'm guessing those are electronic powder dispensers? I have an older model RCBS ChargeMaster (I think the first one they came out with) It works okay, heck of a lot better than handle trickling a whole charge though if you used.... a charge thrower? I guess they're called and have it just a little shy of you're target, then hand trickled I swear it might be faster... *shrug*. For what I'm wanting to do i'll probably do something similar anyway as I noticed every once in a while it will throw a charge that's over or under by a tenth so I'll probably just use powder scoops that get me close and then hand trickle as I want the exact same in every case. I plan to get serious and take it as far as I can on my budget, like weighing and culling Lapua or Alpha brass (gotta get some) so that the heaviest and lightest get set aside, then taking H20 capacity measurements of each and every single case that's not culled from the batch of 100... unless maybe 20 deep into it I'm not seeing any variation. etc. etc. there's tedious but low cost things I figure I can control I have never bothered with just loading M193 and M855A1 clone loads, or 124gr +P loads..... did make some sweet sabot 9x19 ammo though that laughs at soft armor at 2400+ fps with a 41gr solid copper self turned projectile. That was an interesting load development. 5.7x28 eat your heart out.


How does one decide on match dies? far as neck mandrels and bullet seating stems?

 

[Mean_Man]

Press is perhaps the least important part of a reloading set up

I had an old red hornady pacific that I got in the late 1980s that made fantastic ammo. At some point, I gave it to my neighbor and “upgraded” to an RCBS rock chucker. I honestly think the old horny was more solid, but I had given it away and it was too late. For 50BMG, I also used RCBS

Then at some point, I had all of the other bling equipment like the amp annealer and Giraud trimmer so I figured I need bling presses too and I spent about $2500 on German PRAZIPRESS. Two of them.

They are works of art but again they do not make better ammo. Plain and simple. And getting them set up, gave me a fair dose of grief which I have documented elsewhere. My warnings are roundly ignored by all of the guys who have more money than brains and have convinced themselves they are getting the Ferrari of reloading presses.

If I were starting out reloading 308 today, I would be thinking about getting some kind of bushing die, I prefer the Redding type S for sizing. Micrometer dies don’t make a whole lot of difference, but if you found a set of the Redding competition ones I think you would be pleased with them. The sliding sleeve inside probably does help with bullet alignment although I remain a little skeptical how much difference that makes.

As another poster said, getting your powder charges to within one colonel is going to actually make a difference

As another poster said good quality components like LAPUA brass is going to definitely make a difference in the long run

And I would probably get some kind of flame annealer with a small hopper so that it is partly automated.

After my cases had been shot four or five times I would be looking at getting a trimmer and I am partial to the GIRAUD. That up your game in terms of case uniformity and ease of workflow.

If you don’t have one, get some kind of rotary or vibratory Tumblr with corncob and walnut media. It has tried and true. Do not use stainless steel pens they will fuck up your neck tension by a braiding the neck and cleaning off all of the carbon.

I also like to know where my lands are so if you don’t have one, you could consider getting the horny version of that

Expensive calipers are a goddamn waste, $20 made in China ones work perfectly fine , STARRETT and MITUTOYO are just for bling

You can’t tell if you’re making good ammo unless you have a Garmin to coronagraph your loads. I suppose it doesn’t matter if you’re not shooting past one or 200 yards but if you are a Garmin is indispensable these days.

A friend of mine is getting the new Caldwell unit that about to hit the market, they claimed it gave more data far as at multiple distances in flight it could tell you what the projectile’s velocity is, and thus could calculate the bullets BC if I recall correctly over it’s flight path or something to that effect. I just have an optical unit.

 

[Mean_Man]

I’ll have to try that, thanks

 

[Ex E6]

I got into hand loading loading .45acp, 9x19 and 5.56x45. Just making decent but plinking ammo, long story short I went for mostly LEE products and grabbed one of their Challenger presses which was a new thing at the time I believe that had the locking bushing to quick swap dies so I didn’t have to redo setup every time I changed a die….

Was still annoying and I hate single stage for doing a lot of ammo, BUT that press was good enough to get me going, learn and make some ammo.

Now I have shifted focus less on volume (thank goodness as that was the wrong tool for that job) and more on precision.

I have my doubts with the bushing system of that press…. And so I’m wondering where to start looking to make match quality top shelf ammunition. I have a set of Lyman .308 dies i inherited, I recently bought a .308 bolt action that’s heavily focused on long range accuracy.

Would I be wasting my time with that press? And if so, what’s an upper end of the bell curve value press that’s not going to break my wallet but I can rely on? I don’t have Dillon compound press money….and since this will be low volume, I’m absolutely more focused on accuracy and repeatability, so single stage is what I’m after here.

OK ; IMO ,Here's when and where YOU decide and by doing so , it will either increase productivity or limit you as to what can be done .

A turret style press makes GREAT ACCURATE AMMUNITION ,as does a single stage but Only slower .

IF You load pistol .45 .9mm Etc. and shoot any volume ,a Turret is YOUR FRIEND and with some exception 5.56X45mm 7.62X51mm Aka .308 .

Top shelf ammo is nothing more than full fundamental adherence to details and either press is more than capable ,IF YOU ARE !.

Now days YOU must decide on YOUR volume and FUTURE volume . Turrets although cost more up front ,have fringe benefits down the road . Quality Dies as well as cases coupled with bullets and careful measurements ,MAKES TOP SHELF AMMO .

Way back when Mike Dillon first offered 550 upgraded RL 550 C , I switched and never looked back . I also acquired another #2 Dillon presses later on but still to this day use that original RL 550 for a multitude of tasks .

I also had the GOOD sense to purchase #30 tool heads and #20 powder dispensers ,along with Free extra parts rebuild kits from Mike and all necessary powder pucks for a myriad of calibers . A friend once told Me ,that I made #3 top sporting outlets look like a LGS .
Worked near all the time ,so when sales happened or when one could purchase a pallet of primers directly from the factory , I DID !.

I knew I'd retire one day and I also stock piled 42 Years worth of Pallet quantities of reloading essentials , so Now days only laugh when I see pricing of components . Because I'll NEVER need any .

MY point is simple YOU NEED A PLAN