I'm at a loss. New batch of reloads puzzles me.

mobile7.62

Private
Minuteman
Aug 8, 2007
6
0
Hello all,

So today I came across an issue that has been nagging at my soul since I've come back from the range. I have been recently working up some loads for a buddy's 700 AAC and concluded upon 40.5 grains of RE15 inside of a once fired LC '05 case and a 175 grain SMK on top (COAL 2.805). We chronoed a string of 10 shots that averaged 2623 FPS and it shot very, very well.

One week later...

Today, we replicated the same exact load and used the exact same components and specifications that performed well already. Now, the cases are being fired for the third time. Just for curiosity, I set up the chronograph and check the velocity for the next string of 10 rounds. To my Surprise, these loads now averaged a velocity of 2273. We shot at the exact location as before with weather being quite similar each outing.

After thinking about this quite hard since earlier today, my conclusion is that case erosion may have played a significant role in this deteriorated velocity; however, in all my years as a reloader, I have never seen such a significant change in velocity between the second and third reload. What puzzles me even more is that my M1A was capable of producing an even higher velocity with a lower charge than the 700 AAC (This was done using LC '10 brass on its second reload).

Although I did not weigh the LC '05 brass before I fired them out of my buddies gun, I did weigh them afterwards and they averaged 175 grains (This weight is after 3 reloads). I did not have any more LC '05 brass but I did weigh some LC '10 that weighed 179 grains (twice fired). I know that the weight of brass is not Completely indicative of internal case volume but if I must say, I have put many reloads downrange without ever having to worry about the case volume of every case.

Note: I was also using CCI 34 primers.
 
Re: I'm at a loss. New batch of reloads puzzles me.

I was getting 2725 with 43.3gr RE15, LC LR brass & a 175SMK. Any chance there was a variation in the chrono? Seems like 2623 is pretty quick with only 40.5gr behind it.

Just a guess.
 
Re: I'm at a loss. New batch of reloads puzzles me.

Same Chronograph bud. CED M2. Nice and sunny out too. About 70 degrees @ 1500 ft. of elevation. I was very surprised with the speed of that load myself but I just went with it.
 
Re: I'm at a loss. New batch of reloads puzzles me.

Did they hit the same place as last time?

Check the batteries in the chrono.
Check the zero on your powder scale.

There is no way brass stretch is going to drop you 350 fps.

Cheers,

Doc
 
Re: I'm at a loss. New batch of reloads puzzles me.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: mobile7.62</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Hello all,

So today I came across an issue that has been nagging at my soul since I've come back from the range. I have been recently working up some loads for a buddy's 700 AAC and concluded upon 40.5 grains of RE15 inside of a once fired LC '05 case and a 175 grain SMK on top (COAL 2.805). We chronoed a string of 10 shots that averaged 2623 FPS and it shot very, very well.

One week later...

Today, we replicated the same exact load and used the exact same components and specifications that performed well already. Now, the cases are being fired for the third time. Just for curiosity, I set up the chronograph and check the velocity for the next string of 10 rounds. To my Surprise, these loads now averaged a velocity of 2273. We shot at the exact location as before with weather being quite similar each outing.

After thinking about this quite hard since earlier today, my conclusion is that case erosion may have played a significant role in this deteriorated velocity; however, in all my years as a reloader, I have never seen such a significant change in velocity between the second and third reload. What puzzles me even more is that my M1A was capable of producing an even higher velocity with a lower charge than the 700 AAC (This was done using LC '10 brass on its second reload).

Although I did not weigh the LC '05 brass before I fired them out of my buddies gun, I did weigh them afterwards and they averaged 175 grains (This weight is after 3 reloads). I did not have any more LC '05 brass but I did weigh some LC '10 that weighed 179 grains (twice fired). I know that the weight of brass is not Completely indicative of internal case volume but if I must say, I have put many reloads downrange without ever having to worry about the case volume of every case.

Note: I was also using CCI 34 primers. </div></div>

What's the ACC's barrel length...20 inches?

I think your 2273 is probably 'more correct' than your 2623 if it is in fact a 20" tube.

Sierra V with the 175/180 weight bullets and a Savage #12 VSS with a 26" tube. Fed case, Fed 210M, 2.800" for the 175 SMK.

RL-15:

37.6gr for ~2300 fps

39.5gr for ~2400 fps.

41.3gr for ~2500 fps.

You could easily be losing 100+ fps with the shorter tube.

I don't know why you had such wild swings between the two visits/batches.

~350 fps is a big difference, so somethings wrong with something.

Chris
 
Re: I'm at a loss. New batch of reloads puzzles me.

Just thought candy but if the new brass was sized down before the last firing it could be loose in the chamber. That would explain some loss in velocity as some of the 'push' would be seating the case fully to the chamber again. Previously that was new brass so maybe the thickness helped with the speed but I'd look at that last load that was fired and check some case lengths and necks. Any that you didn't shoot that you can check against?

With that said I'm kind of with the other folks on that first speed. That's not a lot of powder to go 2623fps behind a 175SMK (they're good but...yeah). Check how the cases fit after the first firing versus the second if you can. That is some thick brass so it's not unreasonable to find a few guys saying that it might take 3 firings on a case like that to get full chamber expansion.

No answers... just random thoughts. The next firing you'll be watching so I'm sure you'll find the needle in the hay.
 
Re: I'm at a loss. New batch of reloads puzzles me.

In case you're bored.
smile.gif


http://www.loadammo.com/Topics/October05.htm
 
Re: I'm at a loss. New batch of reloads puzzles me.

I bet you didn't seat the sensors on the Chrono correctly. Same thing happened to me. If the distance of the sensors is off, it will throw off readings. I put a tape on my CED sensor bar to verify proper seating depth.
 
Re: I'm at a loss. New batch of reloads puzzles me.

I'm with gau17. If the bar isn't completely straight, the sensors will be closer together, increasing the indicated speed. If the sensors aren't seated completely, they'll be farther apart, decreasing the indicated speed. With that short a bar to begin with, a little discrepancy means a lot in accuracy. JMHO
 
Re: I'm at a loss. New batch of reloads puzzles me.

It's the chrono. I used to have stupid shit like this happen often.

This is what I had to do until I got my hands on a Oehler 35P.

Confirm zero. Use Bryan Litz derived BC's. Get density altitude. Then use a ballistic program to back in approx velocity from actual dope. Make sure you have the scope height correct in the program.

Try to test at least 400Y, further is better. The distance has to be correct within a yard or 2. Unless the scope tracking is way off you will be able to figure out velocity within 25 fps or so.