Im chopping my barrels... length?

[SonoranPrecision]

Who says we dont use rangefinders? Your reading skills are broken.

You literally said that hunting is unknown distance shooting. By implication, this indicates that you do not know distance to target when hunting. Which would only be the case if you don’t use a range finder. My reading skills are fine. Perhaps you should sharpen your writing skills so as to not connect yourself to practices that are not representative of your reality.

 

[CrabsandFootball]

You literally said that hunting is unknown distance shooting. By implication, this indicates that you do not know distance to target when hunting. Which would only be the case if you don’t use a range finder. My reading skills are fine. Perhaps you should sharpen your writing skills so as to not connect yourself to practices that are not representative of your reality.

Its ukd. Rangefinders all have error built in and the longer the greater the error. Unless you are running a PLRF or LRAS3. Cheaper rangerfinders most people use can be off by 25% or more past 500 yards. Even better ones like lieca and EL range can throw bad numbers depending on atmospherics, target ect. Just becuase you get a number return doesnt mean that number is correct.

Know what makes a range KD? They actually measured it, usualy with surveying tools designed for it. Thats why we use them for truing ballistic data and our rangefinders.

A flatter shooting bulllet will be more forgiving of ranging error.

I thought this was common sense but apparently people need it explained.

 

[SRPowah]

Holy shit people. The shorter barrels aren't used in 1000+ yard cross valley shots. My use case is getting out of a pickup/tractor quickly to make a 100-400 yard shot typically. 600 yards is cake if setup calling, and that is with the wild NoDak winds. There is always a reason to do something, including cucking the velocity on a bolt gun. Yes I would prefer more velocity in the wind..but if you can't make those shots without 300 more fps, you need more training. Plain and simple.

I know I wouldn't use a 16" 6.5CM for mountain hunting, but the 26" 7mmRem sucks to swing around and fit in some vehicles before a suppressor is even included.

 

[TheChief]

Talk about silly hyperbole. Consider a 6.5Creed shooting a 129 ABLR at 2850fps, a perfectly reasonably load. Now take the same bullet and shoot it from a 16" barrel and you're gonna see about 2700fps. We've got a deer 400 yards away and we're zeroed for 100 yards. This is a reasonable distance and a totally normal zero. (I'm not cherry picking some fringe case stuff here, this is all totally normal stuff)

"Lobbing mortars" as you put it is actually a difference of .2 mils of elevation and .1 mil of wind in a 10mph crosswind. If you prefer to think in inches you're seeing about 4 inches extra drop at 400 yards and not even 1 inch more wind drift.

You will most definitely not see 2700 fps out of a 16" 6.5CM shooting 129ABLR's. I get that out of a 20" with nearly a full case of H4350. Not happening out of a 16".

 

[Supersubes]

You will most definitely not see 2700 fps out of a 16" 6.5CM shooting 129ABLR's. I get that out of a 20" with nearly a full case of H4350. Not happening out of a 16".

Are you shooting a tikka by chance?

 

[Tbaxl]

I hunt the mountains out here in the west and virtually no one uses a can. Its added weight and length not to mention more recoil that a quality brake shooting large cals at big game.

Hunt the east out of treestands. Again no real advantage to hunting with a can unless you are doing predator hunting.

I exclusively use suppressors for hunting now, including hunting out west. It tucks away on the side of my pack easy and is quick to put on. I used not to have suppressors and didn’t know any better, I now know they are the best thing ever invented for hearing protection and preventing ringing headaches.

 

[sboone]

You will most definitely not see 2700 fps out of a 16" 6.5CM shooting 129ABLR's. I get that out of a 20" with nearly a full case of H4350. Not happening out of a 16".

I was getting 2550-2650 from my 16" AR10 upper on various factory 140 grain loadings, i dont think that 2700 with a basically 130 class bullet is too much to ask for. From a 24" tikka to the 16" faxon big gunner barrel in the AR10, average loss was 150 fps across 4 different loads. Magnetospeed and a OSS helix old generation on the end of both

 

[TheChief]

Are you shooting a tikka by chance?

Yes, its a 20" CTR. And I know they run a bit slow, but still I just don't see a 16" generating that much velocity. I"m running Peterson brass and nearly a full case of H4350 and its right at 2700FPS with both 129ABLR's and 130 Gamechangers. Good hunting load for inside of 300 meters still though.

 

[Supersubes]

Yes, its a 20" CTR. And I know they run a bit slow, but still I just don't see a 16" generating that much velocity. I"m running Peterson brass and nearly a full case of H4350 and its right at 2700FPS with both 129ABLR's and 130 Gamechangers. Good hunting load for inside of 300 meters still though.

My Proof barreled 20” 6.5 with peterson brass and 42 gr RL16 goes 2775. Thats an everyday year round load. The barrel matters.

@*Nine point still stands if you knock it back to 2650 though.

 

[Red_SC]

Different tools for different jobs. There is a distinct lack of valleys for me to shoot across in my part of SC. Yes, I take my 28” barreled comp gun hunting at times with a 9” can swinging on the end, but quite frankly it’s ridiculous. If you can’t handle a couple hundred fps loss on a whitetail through the swamp at 45 yards, well, I don’t know what to tell you.

In the spirit of trying to fitting with everyone else in this thread, let me declare that everyone here is an idiot if you don’t agree with me completely. Your different use case is irrelevant.

 

[demolitionman]

Damn, @CrabsandFootball your about as abrasive as a 20 grit flap disk concerning short barreled bolt guns.

 

[TheChief]

My Proof barreled 20” 6.5 with peterson brass and 42 gr RL16 goes 2775. Thats an everyday year round load. The barrel matters.

@*Nine point still stands if you knock it back to 2650 though.

Yes, I know that different barrels have different speeds. I just don't see 2700fps coming out of a 16" barrel. Mine will run 2700fps any day of the year also. I'm gonna try a load with 6.5 StaBall also and see if it makes any difference. Even if it doesn't I'm happy with that speed from a 20". It's exceptionally accurate. If I hunt past 300 meters I'll use my 280AI anyways. Probably inside of 300 meters too.

 

[hereinaz]

I hunt the mountains out here in the west and virtually no one uses a can. Its added weight and length not to mention more recoil that a quality brake shooting large cals at big game.

Hunt the east out of treestands. Again no real advantage to hunting with a can unless you are doing predator hunting.

I disagree.

Suppressed you can get by without ear pro in a pinch, from a treestand or walking hunt. It matters to be able to listen.

It is an advantage to shoot quietly because game don't respond to suppressed shots the same.

Virtually no one has a can at all, so that is why I think there are so few cans in the mountains.

But, there are many more hunters going to cans.

I can tell you that practically everyone I hunt with now wants one. They hiked with heavy rifles before they saw what a Proof CF barreled rifle would do. Their new guns with cans will weigh less than the Rem Sendero they carried.

Between a Hellfire and supressor, there isn't a lot of difference. I shot supppressed with my 11 pound 2 ounce 7 SS mag shooting 180 vld at 3045 all weekend, more than 60 rounds. I have no tenderness or marking on my collarbone.

 

[Gtscotty]

Yes, its a 20" CTR. And I know they run a bit slow, but still I just don't see a 16" generating that much velocity. I"m running Peterson brass and nearly a full case of H4350 and its right at 2700FPS with both 129ABLR's and 130 Gamechangers. Good hunting load for inside of 300 meters still though.

I think you could probably see 2,700 fps with a 130gr class bullet in a 16" with RL16 or StaBall, H4350 is a good powder, but is significantly slower than other options in the 6.5. My not quite topped out, but very accurate 127gr LRX load developed for my 20" Kimber does 2,742 fps in the 18" sig. I expect that load would be below 2,700 fps in an equivalent 16" tube, but probably not that far below.

I'm sure you could hit velocity with the crazy pixie dust they call RL26 if you didn't run out of space. I didn't have enough RL26 to really work up a load, but I did chrono a few charge weights to try and confirm what QL was telling me I should see out of my 20" Kimber:

140gr AB
46.5gr - 2,814 fps
47gr- 2,805 fps
47.5gr - 2,825 fps
48gr - 2,884 fps

Strange, interesting, and slightly alarming results, QL estimates a max velocity of ~2,850 fps for my rifle/case capacity/OAL, but at 49.5gr.... Obviously anyone trying it should work up from lower, but If I had more RL26, I'd definitely see how it groups in that 46.5gr to 47.5gr range.

I will say that I picked up 100 cases of Peterson brass to run in my Cross, and I'm disappointed. I've run various batches of Hornady brass in my Kimber and RPR, and currently use Starline in the RPR. The Peterson brass has 1.5gr less capacity than my current Hornady brass, which is itself about 0.3gr less than the batch before. Also, the Peterson seems softer than my Starline and Hornady brass.

Even with the Tikka factory tube, I think you'll see some different results with another powder, and maybe different brass.

 

[pineoak]

I've run a .223 at 16.2"... won't be doing that again.

Honestly, .223 doesn't need long barrels to reach "best value" in velocity. But the round itself is light enough that at 600 yards... you lose too much to the wind.

Not the same for a fat .308 "pig in the wind" that'll still hit at 600 with lower velocity

Even at 300, you'll notice a significant lateral difference in impact compared to a 20"+ barrel with a .223

Personally, I wouldn't go shorter than 18" for either caliber unless you have a specific mission with a very short barrel as a requirement.

18" .308 will work great to 600, 20" to 1000 for my choice (shorter barrels are stiffer and arguably more accurate but I want the velocity of a longer at the far end closer to the target)

I've never owned a bolt .223 between 16.2" and 24" so I can't comment on anything in between, but 16" was too short to be useful as an accurate gun out to 600 for me.

 

[TheChief]

I've run a .223 at 16.2"... won't be doing that again.

Honestly, .223 doesn't need long barrels to reach "best value" in velocity. But the round itself is light enough that at 600 yards... you lose too much to the wind.

Not the same for a fat .308 "pig in the wind" that'll still hit at 600 with lower velocity

Even at 300, you'll notice a significant lateral difference in impact compared to a 20"+ barrel with a .223

Personally, I wouldn't go shorter than 18" for either caliber unless you have a specific mission with a very short barrel as a requirement.

18" .308 will work great to 600, 20" to 1000 for my choice (shorter barrels are stiffer and arguably more accurate but I want the velocity of a longer at the far end closer to the target)

I've never owned a bolt .223 between 16.2" and 24" so I can't comment on anything in between, but 16" was too short to be useful as an accurate gun out to 600 for me.

A 16" .223 is plenty accurate to 600 and beyond assuming the shooter can shoot well at that range. In DM training they shoot to 800 meters with an M4 paired with an ACOG. And these aren't special, accurized M4's, they're standard. A 16" bolt gun will shoot considerably better than those, especially with some quality ammo.

 

[SRPowah]

I've run a .223 at 16.2"... won't be doing that again.

16" was too short to be useful as an accurate gun out to 600 for me.

What was your target size and general conditions for reference?

I ask because 1.5 moa with a good 77gr load isnt too hard with an AR, but subminute isn't possible with any noticeable variable wind for me. 1 moa was still doable with a 16" 6.5CM.

 

[skl1]

I'd cheat long, 18 or 20 inches. This might be useful:

BBTI - Ballistics by the Inch :: .223 Rifle Results

(statement of intent)

www.ballisticsbytheinch.com

 

[762 ULTRAMAGA]

I recently replaced the 25" barrel on my lightweight 6.5 saum hunting rifle with a 16".
I'm sending 156 Bergers at 2840 with RL26, getting 1" groups at 200.
No way it'll ever be longer than 16" again, it has plenty on energy to kill a bull out to 600.

BTW
I'm a westerner and we definitely use suppressors in the mountains

 

[TheChief]

I recently replaced the 25" barrel on my lightweight 6.5 saum hunting rifle with a 16".
I'm sending 156 Bergers at 2840 with RL26, getting 1" groups at 200.
No way it'll ever be longer than 16" again, it has plenty on energy to kill a bull out to 600.

BTW
I'm a westerner and we definitely use suppressors in the mountains

So what were you getting for MV out of this with a 25" barrel?

 

[762 ULTRAMAGA]

So what were you getting for MV out of this with a 25" barrel?

I was shooting 142s at 3050 with H1000, the same load gave me 2850 at 16"
Obviously going short means you'll need to change powders for optimal performance.
I took the 156's out to 560 tonight, 2 rounds right where they should be I'm loving this setup!
Weighs 8lbs scoped and suppressed

 

[TheChief]

I was shooting 142s at 3050 with H1000, the same load gave me 2850 at 16"
Obviously going short means you'll need to change powders for optimal performance.
I took the 156's out to 560 tonight, 2 rounds right where they should be I'm loving this setup!
Weighs 8lbs scoped and suppressed
View attachment 7579352

You only lost 200fps with cutting off 9" of barrel? Dang. I just got a custom 280AI with a 24" Bartlein barrel and I'm getting 2774 with 59.1 grains of RL26 and Nosler 175ABLR's, Peterson brass, and Federal 210M's. I was hoping for a bit more speed, but the accuracy is phenomenal and the ES is 1 right now.

 

[762 ULTRAMAGA]

You only lost 200fps with cutting off 9" of barrel? Dang. I just got a custom 280AI with a 24" Bartlein barrel and I'm getting 2774 with 59.1 grains of RL26 and Nosler 175ABLR's, Peterson brass, and Federal 210M's. I was hoping for a bit more speed, but the accuracy is phenomenal and the ES is 1 right now.

For 7mm I really think the 7 wsm is the best choice.
I run one at 22" and am getting 2850 with 195's using 65 grains of RL26.
Edit: Thats on a LA loaded 3.2"oal

 

[TheChief]

Yeah, I didn't wanna burn that much powder for this with how hard RL26 is to find, and didn't want a magnum bolt face. It's a light recoiling, less powder burning rifle. Elk won't notice a bit of velocity difference inside of ethical ranges whether I'm sending a 175ABLR at 2775 or 2850. It delivers a lot of energy either way. The 280AI is the most bang for the buck for what I want.

 

[Timo494]

You will most definitely not see 2700 fps out of a 16" 6.5CM shooting 129ABLR's. I get that out of a 20" with nearly a full case of H4350. Not happening out of a 16".

I have a 16.5” creed running 130s at 2790. Surprised me quite a bit.

 

[Bradu]

I have a 16.5” creed running 130s at 2790. Surprised me quite a bit.

What is the load data? Hard to believe it's not overpressure unless you have a really fast barrel.

 

[Timo494]

What is the load data? Hard to believe it's not overpressure unless you have a really fast barrel.

43.5 gr of reloader 17 and 130gr nosler rdf. That’s max charge according to my manual and they estimate 2953 in a 24” barrel. So basically I lost 21 FPS per inch. I’m my experience 4350 would probly be 50-75 FPS slower than reloader 17. Just had a couple pounds laying around to kill.

 

[granite wagon]

19" 308win has 2 nodes w/ 155.5 berger . 2770 & 2850 both in lapua brass, fed210 & imr8208